Round 1 - decks

[Dragoon]

I know xdude and I as well as Hobnob and xdude have talked about specific element counter decks.  I think this is better than what we've been doing for building decks and finding the cards for our vault.  So I thought maybe we could work on 2 counter decks for each element.  And when we get matched up against an opponent, we can pull out the counter deck for that element.  Anyways, that's my thoughts on it.

Also, if you were another element fighting Light, what kind of deck would you build?  I would probably go duo, my element plus Earth.  Quicksands = no Miracles and no golden dragons.  I don't know how we can counter this though in our decks.  We can only build 1 Immolation deck and a Nova deck seems pretty weak.  Any thoughts?

[Dragoon]

Edit: I deleted my earlier deck ideas to save space on this first page.  It was taking like 5 minutes just to scroll down. 


I'll update as we find and optimize decks.


  Aether   √
CC- Lightning
Speed- Phase Spider
Special- Parallel Universe, Immortal, Phase Dragon, Dimensional Shield, Quintessence, Fractal

Counter Deck:

Earth-Light

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58o 58o 58o 58o 58o 58o 58o 58s 58s 58s 58s 593 593 593 593 593 593 594 594 594 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5lh 5lh 5li 5li 5li 5li 5liEarth-Light Mini

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58o 58o 58o 58o 58o 58o 58o 58s 58s 58s 593 593 593 593 593 594 594 594 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5lh 5lh 5li 5li 5li 5liTitanium Shield to block damage.  Should be good particularly for any cheap Fractal'd creatures.  Stone Skin to pump up your health 50 at a time and then Miracle.  Use Stone Skin before Miracles that way they have to go through more of your HP.  Win with 249 HP.    Also against a more normal Aether deck, the EQs and Titanium Shield should slow them down enough.


  Air  
CC- Shockwave, Unstable Gas, Thunderstorm, Owl’s Eye
Speed- Wyrm
Special- FFQ, Flying Weapon, Fog Shield

Counter Deck:

Air-Light 

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5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5lh 5lh 5lh 5lh 5lh 5lh 5li 5li 5li 5li 5og 5og 5oi 5oi 5oi 5oi 5oiFlying Stars to avoid all CC.  Miracles keep you alive.  Keep a MS in the weapon slot always to avoid Fog Shield.  One deck that might be a problem though is a FFQ deck.  Not sure what to do though.


  Darkness   √
QC- Devourer
CC- Parasite, Drain Life, Liquid Shadow
PC- Steal
Special- Dusk Mantle, Minor Vampire, Nightfall

Counter Deck:

Fire-Light

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5f6 5f6 5f6 5f9 5f9 5f9 5f9 5f9 5f9 5fc 5fc 5fc 5fc 5fc 5fc 5l8 5l8 5l9 5l9 5l9 5l9 5l9 5l9 5lc 5lc 5lc 5lc 5lc 5ld 5ldPhoenix for renewable creature attack.  Immolations to minimize Devourer.  You can also Immolate your own Phoenix if you're not drawing Photons or if he uses Freeze/Basilisk Blood on them.  xdude, you might want to take upped reflective shield since it blocks 1 and can't be stolen.  Edit: I got rid of the Rage Potions and added Deflags for Dusk Mantle, Vampire Stiletto, and Nightfall.


  Death   √
CC- Virus, Plague, Aflatoxin
Special- Poison, Bone Wall, Arsenic

Counter Deck:

Water-Light

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5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i8 5i8 5i8 5i8 5i9 5i9 5i9 5i9 5ia 5ia 5ia 5ih 5ih 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5lh 5lh 5li 5li 5li 5li 5liSimple deck-out strategy.  Ice Shields, Ice Bolts, and Floodings to minimize creature damage; Purifies for Poison; Miracles to stay alive.  I’m not sure, but I think it works best to use Purify and Miracle together.  Also, don't play Floodings if they play Vultures unless you kill the Vultures early on.  You might be able to save up and Bolt the player to death after hopefully taking their health down a bit with MS.


  Earth   √
QC- Earthquake
CC-Basilisk Blood
PC- Pulverizer
Speed- Graboid
Special- Stone Skin, Titanium Shield

Counter Deck:

Time-Light

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5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l9 5l9 5l9 5l9 5l9 5lf 5lf 5lf 5lf 5lf 5lh 5lh 5lj 5lj 5lj 5lj 5lj 5lk 5lk 5lk 5rh 5rh 5rh 5rh 5rhBless the Deja Vu and split them.  Play Luci early and often.  The Light Pillars aren't necessary for the deck to work, but they do help in the first couple turns.  Edit: After testing both decks some more, I think this is the better deck now.

Aether-Light

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5l9 5l9 5l9 5l9 5l9 5la 5la 5lj 5lj 5lj 5lj 5lj 5lk 5lk 5lk 61o 61o 61o 61o 61o 61o 61o 61o 61o 61o 622 622 622 622 622It works against Seism, so hopefully should work in PvP.  If playing against Air or Fire duo, save a Photon, Luci, and Fractal.  And try to Luci your fractal'd dragons as soon as possible.  Edit: After optimizing the Time-Light deck, I think it'd do better against Earth than this deck would.  The Time-Light deck is not so dependent on Pillars as this Aether-Light deck is to cast Fractal.


  Entropy:   √
QC- Discord
CC- Antimatter, Maxwell’s Demon, Chaos Seed, Mutation, Fallen Elf
Speed- Lycanthrope
Special- Dissipation Shield

Counter Decks:

Immolation-Light

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55q 590 590 5f6 5f6 5f9 5f9 5f9 5f9 5f9 5f9 5fa 5fa 5fa 5fa 5fa 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l9 5l9 5l9 5l9 5l9 5lh 5lh 5li 5li 5on 61qImmolate a Photon to get started.  Then hold on to your Immolations for when they AM a Golem or Graboid.  Then immediately Immolate to keep it from healing them.  Use Miracles to stay alive long enough.  Lightning and Shockwave are primarily for Maxwell's Demon.  Deflag is primarily for Shields since Discord doesn't hurt hardly with Immolation.  Save the Momentum towards the end of a deck-out Entropy deck (Dissipation Shield+PA+lots of pillars), or until you think he's run out of AM.  Remember, you can also keep growing your Golem to overcome AM.


  Fire   √
CC- Fire Bolt, Rain of Fire, Fire Shield, Rage Potion
PC- Deflagration
Speed- Ash Eater, Lava Golem, Crimson Dragon
Special- Phoenix, Fahrenheit, Immolation

Counter Deck:

Death-Light

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52g 52g 52g 52g 52g 52o 52o 52o 52o 52o 52o 52q 52q 52q 52r 52r 52r 52r 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5li 5li 5li 5liimplosion found the right card mix to make Death-Light work.  Stay alive with BW+Miracle while you slowly poison them to death.  If you think he has Fire Bolts then keep track of his Fire quantum and how many cards he's holding on to and make sure to Miracle before you fall before that threshold.  Also, it's probably better to use your BW after you Miracle.  That way it buys you some time to save up the Light quantum you need.  With all the Light pillars, you should be able to play Miracle in 2-3 turns.  The deck works, but it might could use a little more optimizations.  It seems a little short on Death pillars.


  Gravity
QC- Black Hole
CC-Gravity Pull, Otyugh
Special- Armagio, Gravity Shield, Titan, Sapphire Charger, Momentum, Graviton Fire Eater

Possible Counter Deck:

Gravity-Light

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55q 55q 55q 55q 55q 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5la 5la 5la 5la 5la 5lh 5lh 5li 5liWorks okay, but a bit slow because Dragons cost sooo much.  This deck is dead in the water though against EQ and Rewind.  Edit: It'd be nice if we can find a better deck.


  Life   √
CC- Thorn Carapace
Speed- Horned Frog, Cockatrice
Special- Empathy Bond, Adrenaline, Forest Spirit, Heal, Druidic Staff

Counter Deck:

Aether-Light

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5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5lb 5lb 5lb 5lb 5lb 5lb 5lf 5lf 5lf 5lf 5lf 5lf 5lh 61o 61o 61o 61o 61o 61t 61t 61t 61t 61t 61tKnock 'em out with Blessed Pegasus and MS while you sit behind a chain of Shields.  Multi-bless when you're down to just 1 Air to maximize damage (unless they're playing Gravity).  All you need is 2 Aether pillar to get enough quantum to chain.  Also, 34 cards to avoid decking out against a healing Life deck.


  Time   √
CC- Reverse Time, Scarab, Eternity, Procrastination
Special- Golden Hourglass, Anubis, Sundial, Precognition, Fate Egg, Deja Vu

Counter Deck:

Air-Light

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5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5lh 5lh 5lh 5li 5li 5li 5li 5oc 5oc 5oc 5oc 5oc 5oc 5oc 5oc 5og 5og 5om 5om 5om 5om 5om 5omAvoids Sundials, Procrastination Shield, Scarabs, Rewinds.  Kill with MS and UG.  Stay alive with Miracle.  If they don't have any PC, save up the UG and use them as CC.  If they're playing Time-Light, save up your UGs and use them all at once when you can kill them.   Edit: Works well against most Time decks, but not against Time-Earth.  Could possibly add more Pillars to compensate for EQs.


  Water
QC- Trident
CC- Freeze, Ice Bolt, Ice Shield, Mind Flayer, Toadfish, Flooding
Special- Chrysaora, Nymph’s Tear

Counter Decks:

Water-Light

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5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i4 5i8 5i8 5i8 5i8 5i8 5i9 5i9 5i9 5ia 5ia 5ia 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5lh 5lh 5li 5li 5li 5liThis is a variation of the counter-Death deck.  Simple deck-out strategy.  Ice Shields and Ice Bolts to minimize creature damage (and several of them to get them early and/or replace stolen ones); Purifies for Poison; Miracles to stay alive.  I’m not sure, but I think it works best to use Purify and Miracle together.  You might be able to save up and Bolt the player to death after hopefully taking their health down a bit with MS.

Air-Light 

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5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5l8 5lh 5lh 5lh 5lh 5lh 5lh 5li 5li 5li 5li 5og 5og 5oi 5oi 5oi 5oi 5oiFlying Stars to avoid all CC.  Miracles keep you alive.  Keep a MS in the weapon slot always to avoid Ice Shield.  This deck is too slow against a Poison deck.

[Helios]

In order to assist with the deck testing and calibration, I have just collected statistics for the Time/Light deck featured above against AI3:

Turns: 11, 9, 10, 14, 11, 12, 9, 9, 13, 21
Average Turns for Game Completion: 11.9
Average Turns for Wins: 11.3
70% Win
No EM

[Dragoon]

In order to assist with the deck testing and calibration, I have just collected statistics for the Time/Light deck featured above against AI3:

Turns: 11, 9, 10, 14, 11, 12, 9, 9, 13, 21
Average Turns for Game Completion: 11.9
Average Turns for Wins: 11.3
70% Win
No EM

Welcome to Team Light!  Thanks for helping us do some testing.  If you want, you can try to help optimize the counter decks.  They're built to counter a specific element, but you can see if the card balance is right (ie needing more or less pillars, drawing enough CC or PC, doing enough damage, etc.).

[Hobnob5000]

For the death counter deck, should we not include some angels, just to make sure that our creatures do not die? That's just a thought.

Also, vs entropy.

We might want a black hole deck, especially if we're playing Zeru, as the upped cards are bound to be supernovae.

Vs darkness, we DEFINITELY should have plenty of holy light.

[Dragoon]

For the death counter deck, should we not include some angels, just to make sure that our creatures do not die? That's just a thought.

Also, vs entropy.

We might want a black hole deck, especially if we're playing Zeru, as the upped cards are bound to be supernovae.

Vs darkness, we DEFINITELY should have plenty of holy light.

Yeah, for the death counter, you might be able to replace the dragons and some pillars with angels and blessings.

For entropy counter, if you want to try to come up with a gravity based deck with Black Holes, feel free to.  I think though that Discord will be more of a problem.

Edit:
I was also thinking if we could try these counter decks out on each when we're in chat, that would be great.  Playing these decks against AI3 helps some, but not nearly as much as actually playing against the decks they were designed to beat.

[implosion]

Okay, my thoughts on the elements that still don't have counters next to them:

 - the biggest threats are probably fractal decks and dimensional shield. Hope could work as a counter to fractal, and for dimensional shield we probably need deflags... so if somehow the two could be put together?

  - a creature control heavy deck should work, air is reliant on creatures. We should also probably throw in a mirror shield or two in case of unstable gas. Some aether / light with lightning could work or something like the life counter but with fire bolts.

  - some kind of hope deck makes sense because they couldn't steal it. I think life / hope might work well, assuming it could set up fast enough to avoid devourers. And of course holy light like Hobnob said.

  - I would bet they'll pull a gravity shield on us to block dragons. How about a pegasus / blessing deck? the pegasi could get too big to eat but with only one blessing they'd still be small enough to get through the shield. We could try to pack a bunch of deflag and / or steal, but earth and gravity have a lot of synergy and they could protect the shield.

The rest of them, the counters already there make sense. And on the problem of if entropy pulls a deck-out deck... the counter deck has fire bolts, which should work fine.

Also, remember that most of the decks are probably going to be duo, at least most of ours are. Mono decks are just too predictable. So our decks need to stay versatile.

[Dragoon]

I'm glad you wrote something implosion, because I've been having a hard time trying to think of counter decks.

- the biggest threats are probably fractal decks and dimensional shield. Hope could work as a counter to fractal, and for dimensional shield we probably need deflags... so if somehow the two could be put together?

Yeah I'm afraid of fractal devourers.  Of course they could fractal any cheap creature.  Trying to pack CC is pretty useless since they'll have mass creatures and/or immortal creatures.  Lightnings may be a problem too.

- a creature control heavy deck should work, air is reliant on creatures. We should also probably throw in a mirror shield or two in case of unstable gas. Some aether / light with lightning could work or something like the life counter but with fire bolts.

I don't think we can pack enough CC.  Dragons, FFQ, and Flying OE all would need two CC cards to take out.  They just have too many high HP creatures.  Definitely pack in 2 Reflect Shields for Unstable Gas though.  I was thinking maybe EQs since they have expensive cards?

- some kind of hope deck makes sense because they couldn't steal it. I think life / hope might work well, assuming it could set up fast enough to avoid devourers. And of course holy light like Hobnob said.

Again, I'm afraid of Fractal Devourers.  Or Earth-Darkness quantum denial deck.  I'm leaning towards an Immolation or cheap creature deck like against Earth.  I don't know though.

- I would bet they'll pull a gravity shield on us to block dragons. How about a pegasus / blessing deck? the pegasi could get too big to eat but with only one blessing they'd still be small enough to get through the shield. We could try to pack a bunch of deflag and / or steal, but earth and gravity have a lot of synergy and they could protect the shield.

I like this.  And any Oty that gets too big could be taken down by Shockwaves.  Not much we can do about Gravity Pull, but I imagine they'll probably use more Momentum'd creatures than not.  I also considered using Gravity-Light to bypass Gravity Shield and Armagios as well.  I don't know which may be better.

The rest of them, the counters already there make sense. And on the problem of if entropy pulls a deck-out deck... the counter deck has fire bolts, which should work fine.

Also, remember that most of the decks are probably going to be duo, at least most of ours are. Mono decks are just too predictable. So our decks need to stay versatile.

This is true.  I really hate that we have to use the same deck for all 3 games.  And I'm afraid people are going to use Earth a lot against us since 2 of our most important cards cost so much.

[xdude]

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Here's what me and Dragoon found out to be good against Air. The first deck was quite slow, but I (who plaid it) also got some bad draws (no EQ's in the first 4 turns, or no EQ's EVER).

[Hobnob5000]

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Here's what me and Dragoon found out to be good against Air. The first deck was quite slow, but I (who plaid it) also got some bad draws (no EQ's in the first 4 turns, or no EQ's EVER).

Problem with that is that if you lose, you lose 6 morning stars. That's kind of bad.

[Dragoon]

Yeah, that's true . . . but we can have up to 18 of them.

Also, I hope me going crazy posting lots of decks haven't discouraged the rest of you from posting your decks.  Even if it's a variation, I think it's always good to see what other people are thinking.  I'm sure any one of us by ourselves would overlook something when making our decks.  So post your decks and strategic thoughts with it. 

And one more thing, it'd be good for us to start testing these decks against each other.  Like this morning, xdude and I found that my Earth-Light deck wasn't working against an Air deck.  And he was able to think of something right away that would work against my mono-Air deck.

I don't know how long we have to pick our cards for the vault, but I imagine it's not very long.  So start posting and testing!!!

Oh, and go  !!!

[Dragoon]

SG says we have 72 hours to setup our vault.  We gotta get crackin' on these decks!