Sanctuary | Sanctuary

[xdude]

"Dissipation Shield is a price, not an effect. Therefore, with Sanctuary up, you can't pay that price and Dissipation Shield doesn't work, rather than works perfectly".

Why did this piece of brilliantness get ignored?

[Ekki]

"Dissipation Shield is a price, not an effect. Therefore, with Sanctuary up, you can't pay that price and Dissipation Shield doesn't work, rather than works perfectly".

Why did this piece of brilliantness get ignored?

Because I don't understand what he means 

[ZephyrPhantom]

"Dissipation Shield is a price, not an effect. Therefore, with Sanctuary up, you can't pay that price and Dissipation Shield doesn't work, rather than works perfectly".

Why did this piece of brilliantness get ignored? *shrugs* Dunno, but I believe it's safe to say the recent 1337 FG farming decks proposed are now invalid.

Because I don't understand what he means  It means the way Sanctuary works, Dissipation Shield cannot function at all because it would need to drain quanta on your opponent's turn, but Sanctuary prevents that. Long story short, never play Diss. Shield and Sanctuary at the same time.
 

Anyways, FGs should be the last thing used to balance cards. What is this card's PVP impact?

[Higurashi]

(Because it's obvious why it doesn't work, and that it's going to be fixed.)

[jmdt]

Anyways, FGs should be the last thing used to balance cards. What is this card's PVP impact?

Wel this card stops discord IF it comes out.  I expect to see severall of these used versus in the next war.  Only time will tell how effective or not it is at this.  It will definately make for to look at more PC options for the next war, depending on how effective its deemed to be.  In a broader scale, a D/BH lock is not game over versus a bad matchup now.

[Higurashi]

In its current state, it's best used in a rainbow to counter BH. It does that quite well, since rainbows use Nova and will usually get Sanc out sooner. It's pretty decent against Pestal too, depending on hands. Discord, nope. In the upped environment, it's much better, but denial is already weaker there. Unupped, it's very ineffective.

If the healing stays at 4, that's going to have a larger impact than trying to stop denial, except for rainbows.

[ratcharmer]

Okay, really, I'm 99.9% sure that sanctuary + dissipation shield is just a bug and it will get fixed. That's why we have beta testing rather than just launching the cards directly into the game 

So, assuming that will be fixed, let's look at the rest of it.

I for one feel this card is unbalancing, even assuming dissipation gets fixed. To explain, let me go back to the earlier example of sanctuary versus discord:

If sanctuary comes out first, then discord is completely useless. It will do some damage, but the healing from sanctuary will help with that. If discord comes out first then it will get maybe 1 or 2 turns before sanctuary comes into play and crushes it.

On top of that Discord is a weapon, and thus you can only have one in play, whereas stacking sanctuaries is pretty similar to stacking SoGs. So a discord deck will have maybe 2 copies of discord (unless it's a flying weapon deck) whereas most decks using sanctuary are going to pack a lot of them. Even against decks that don't use denial cards it's almost as good as SoG.

What's more, sanctuary doesn't just stop discord. it stops discord, and devourer, and black hole, and nightmare and silence. This one card will wreck an entire deck, so comparing it versus just one of the cards it will counter is a bit silly.

The nerf suggestion I liked the most so far is giving it a turn limit. As it is now it's a hard counter to certain decks, that's still a good card versus any deck you can come up with.

[Higurashi]

Nope. The NovaGrabby deck team Entropy used the most in War had 4 Discords. Novas enable it to get out faster than Sanc. It won't work most of the time, and the healing will become more important. It needs to cost less and heal less to be an effective counter.

Silence decks usually have good offense out when they start playing Silences, so those would suffer a lot. That means PC becomes more important in those decks. Not a huge problem, tbh.

[The_Mormegil]

Reducing cost to 2/1 and adding it a turn limit - say, 4 or 5 - could be the solution.

Discord? I can get started, and that's what most decks need against discord.
Pestal? A good but not definitive answer.

It's a counter card, it's supposed to be good at what it does. But this way, it doesn't kill strategies, it doesn't create an in-element SoG, it can come out early, and reliably, and you would play 6x of these nonetheless if you knew discord was coming...

[Essence]

After a bit of testing, I think it could use a +1 price unupped and upped, but that's about it.  well, obviously the bugs with Pests, Solar Shield, and Dissipation Shield all need fixing.  Pests can't give you quanta if your opponent has no quanta in his pool, therefore, they shouldn't give you quanta if that quanta pool is beyond their reach.  Solar Shield is a beneficial effect, and sanctuary shouldn't "protect" you from beneficial effects -- and reasonably from a flavor perspective being in a mystic sanctuary shouldn't really "protect" you from something that's theoretically strapped to your arm, so it should work.  Dissipation Shield makes sense logically, but is horribly broken from a mechanical perspective. I'm all down with the idea that it simply does nothing and sits uselessly in your shield slot if you try to combo it with Sanctuary.

[Ekki]

Reducing cost to 2/1 and adding it a turn limit - say, 4 or 5 - could be the solution.

Discord? I can get started, and that's what most decks need against discord.
Pestal? A good but not definitive answer.

It's a counter card, it's supposed to be good at what it does. But this way, it doesn't kill strategies, it doesn't create an in-element SoG, it can come out early, and reliably, and you would play 6x of these nonetheless if you knew discord was coming...

I didn't get what you say

It's true that saying that this is broken because it's a counter to other card/s is silly, and i think having a turn limit would make it UP, since it'd only work as an anti-Discord/BH/Pests/whatever, and the healing would be too low (with a 5 turn limit you're healing 20 hp in 5 turns).
So I guess the major problem is the nerfing to Silence/Nightmare. I think those don't deserve a nerf (Nightmare needs a buff), and taking off the "protect your hand" from the card isn't that bad.


BTW, I'm sure the Dissipation Field/Sanctuary combo will be fixed, so I won't talk more about of that (maybe only for the lolz ).

[ratcharmer]

Nope. The NovaGrabby deck team Entropy used the most in War had 4 Discords. Novas enable it to get out faster than Sanc. It won't work most of the time, and the healing will become more important. It needs to cost less and heal less to be an effective counter.

Silence decks usually have good offense out when they start playing Silences, so those would suffer a lot. That means PC becomes more important in those decks. Not a huge problem, tbh.

Nova can bring sanctuary out just as well as it can discord, so I don't see how that effects the balance between the two.

Four discords in a deck can happen, but it's generally the exception rather than the rule.You can still only use one of them unless you use animate weapon. If you use animate weapon then you're clearly using more resources on the discords than you are on sanctuaries.

A 4 or 5 turn limit is more than enough for any deck to get started, which pretty much kills most denial decks. It really wouldn't be that big of an adjustment.

*edit: Does this effect neurotoxin at all? Not sure if that counts as a "hand" effect.