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Offline willng3Topic starter

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Strategy List: Entropy https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14157.msg178795#msg178795
« on: October 18, 2010, 01:47:54 am »
The Cretin of Chaos, :entropy has the ability to throw a monkey wrench in our plans if not stopped.

Strengths:
-Control, control, control!:  Entropy exercises mastery over all forms of control.
   ~Creature Control:  Maxwell's Demon, Chaos Seed, Mutations (possible), Antimatter, Pandemonium (Yeah, it's a lot)
   ~Permanent Control:  Butterfly Effect
   ~Quanta Control:  Discord

-Shields:  Dissipation Shield is a force to be reckoned with if it comes out later in the game.  Destroying it can give us a huge advantage, however.

-Mutations:  Though random and not (in my opinion) a reliable strategy to use, mutations could become problematic; especially if Zeru decides to run them (and from what I've heard from PvP tourneys he's been in, he isn't hesitant to do just that).

-High-mid range attackers:  Abomination, Purple Dragon, Lycanthrope (after Lycanthropy has been activated)

Weaknesses:
-Quanta Control:  Ironically one of Entropy's greatest weaknesses is a weapon right out of its repertoire (Discord).  Because Entropy relies heavily on high costing cards or effects which require a constant flow of :entropy to use, disrupting the quanta pool could be a useful tactic.

-Creature Control:  Entropy is lacking in creatures, especially durable ones; taking out those powerful creatures is yet another important tactic to keep in mind.


From analyzing the strengths and weaknesses of this opponent, it seems that our best option might be a firestall variation.  Deflags disable the threat of Discords, Rage Potions/Fire Bolts take out creatures that get in our way.  A :darkness / :life synergy might also work, Steals for Discords, and Drain Life for the creatures in this case.  In this case we have to rely on outside elements for the majority of the support since Life is lacking in ways of tackling Entropy's greatest weaknesses.  I advise Life be used for drawing out a duel (Heals, Bonds, Staffs, etc.) while the fire power comes from the other element.  Pendulums may be unwanted in this case since Discord threatens to make their already semi-unstable production of quanta even less reliable.  I also advise a limitation on creatures use since :entropy is fond of taking advantage of them.

Most likely synergies:
:entropy / :gravity:  In this case Discord/Black Hole.  This is a serious threat to us.  Disposing of the the Discord is a must in this case, but we should also be wary of what else to expect (chargers, Otyughs, etc.).

:entropy / :fire:  Ever since jmdt posted an extremely effect Entropy/Fire duo these have become more and more common.  Maxwell's Demon, Fire Buckler, Antimatter, and the like are just a few examples of what to expect form this kind of a synergy.

:entropy / :life:  This would certainly be interesting to see.  Mutations would be omnipresent here.

:entropy / :darkness:  This is another dangerous combination.  Blending these two elements together greatly increases the amount of control to be expected, especially considering that both possess all forms of CC.  Steals are very dangerous here and Devourer/Vampires could cause other problems as well.

This is about the extent of what I can come up with at the moment, now let's start discussing this as a team.
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wizelsnarf

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Re: Strategy List: Entropy https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14157.msg178868#msg178868
« Reply #1 on: October 18, 2010, 03:33:55 am »
I am afraid they will run  pseudo rainbow.

Novas + fallen Elf. Mutation is pretty effective control compared to the upped Fallen Druid. Entropy is the rainbow element really, I expect them to use quantum pillars. If that is the case we might want to consider  :life/ :gravity so we can black hole the novas and quantum pillars.

I just worry that entropy will rely heavily on nova, fallen druid and discord and otherwise go for non :entropy cards.

The potential for them to have a very well rounded deck is high. Pandemonium really screws up our rush ability, however if they use pandemonium it means they will be wary to play creatures so as to avoid wasting their own creatures.

Basically I think we need a spell heavy deck to beat them. Permanents and creatures are risky versus entropy as stated earlier they have control over both. You can't control spells though. I think we should consider what spells will be most helpful. Please contribute

Spells to help us:

Heal
Black hole - we could set up a major stall with heals/black holes assuming they use nova
Deflag
Steal - a little more risky as they will probably also have steals and just steal things back
Drain life - viable stall tactic, gets us more life and is CC
Fire Bolt - if we get enough quanta this could work
Rain of Fire - I know it is real expensive but it could potentially clear out all the druids and anything they cast BE on.
Rage potion - good CC and we could use it on our dragons too.
Reverse time - Kind of iffy, but if one of their mutations is off element and expensive (nymph etc) then reverse time is a killer.
Precognition - Seeing their deck could be helpful, and moving ours along would be effective if we try a rush.
Quintessence - if we use creatures this is probably a must. Will protect our fallen elf or scorpion.

Less Helpful:

Earthquake - could be useful, but not so much if they go for nova
Enchant artifact - Could be awesome on a pulvy, but that is a bit tough to pull off.
Buttefly Effect - without quint our BE creature would be very vulnerable to  :entropy ' s many CC options


hrmmm

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Re: Strategy List: Entropy https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14157.msg178978#msg178978
« Reply #2 on: October 18, 2010, 11:51:37 am »
every element can only use 4 decks with 6 card copys in it.
that means also entropy has to decide, on witch opponent they use a nova deck (novas are only helpfull if you have a couple of them).
that means they have to choose now witch element they want to fight with a nova deck.

since life strenght is mono (rush), i doubt that they use a (mybe slower) heavy mutation deck against us.
and i dont fear the elf as cc. using mutation as cc is usually not a good choise^^

:entropy/ :fire can be dangerous (but jmdts deck only works upgraded and is a  :fire/ :entropy deck)
if they go for :entropy/ :fire most likely as high cc deck.
the only  :life creature with dmg > hp is dragon. if they take a maxwell deck, only paired with cc (chaos seed/pandemonium, plague, fire shield/storm, carapace)

a discord deck seems more dangerous to me (:entropy/ :gravity paired with black hole).
if they are clever they could also use a  :entropy/ :earth deck. enchant discord, BE + critter + armor, titanium shield (who blocks the most of adrenalined life creatures).


what can we do against discord?

    deflags: the only cheap pc -> one of our :life/ :fire decks
going for discord by ourself -> they will be faster :(high pillar/pendulum stall -> if you can produce enough quanta per turn, you can keep some quanta you need vs discord.  :life/ :aether (dim.shield)? but then BE is a pain.
only shield that blocks discord: bone wallgoing rainbow (nice, thx for the discord):risky -> we might need novas for doing a life rainbow and if we loose the match they could salvage them and getting stronger.[/list]
Code: [Select]
4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 55q 58t 5c1 5c1 5c1 5c1 5c1 5c1 5c5 5c8 5c8 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5f6 5f6 5f9 5f9 5rk 5ur 61q 61q 621 621 621what can we do against antimatter?

having more creatures = outdmg AM (scorpions = nono for AM)
protect (burrowed/quint)
quanta drain (eq, devourer)
self cc (rewind/destroy)

Offline Glitch

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Re: Strategy List: Entropy https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14157.msg179058#msg179058
« Reply #3 on: October 18, 2010, 02:46:57 pm »
Ugh, creature spam used to be an easy win versus these guys before pandemonium came out.

Let's face it, we can't counter the entire element, so we need to think of what deck they'll take against us.

If I were entropy, I'd be worried about a rush deck with healing.  So I'd take pandemonium, antimatter, and shields, hoping for a deckout.

Quinted dragons might work...  with phase shields to prevent a possible rush?

wizelsnarf

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Re: Strategy List: Entropy https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14157.msg179128#msg179128
« Reply #4 on: October 18, 2010, 05:21:25 pm »
Very good post hrmmm.

Like you said, that deck you made is risky. Gl1tch is right about pandemonium, they will definitely use it against us. We should build an entropy pandemonium deck to test your deck against.



While  :life/ :aether could be really good with phase shield + heal + quinted scorps, we would lose or deck out if they put up a shield. Our only creature that is a real shield breaker is our dragon. So if we go :life/ :aether i think we need to include some dragons to account for the shield.

A quinted scorpion could be come a complete waste once the right shield goes up.

hrmmm

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Re: Strategy List: Entropy https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14157.msg179145#msg179145
« Reply #5 on: October 18, 2010, 05:40:02 pm »
another point i just remembered:

pandemonium works on the whole field.
this means it would hurt maxwells 3/2 and fallen elfs 3/2 aswell.

if they plan to use it against us they might go for
abominations, dragons (ev. lycans <- lobo would be nice then^^)

Offline Glitch

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Re: Strategy List: Entropy https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14157.msg179201#msg179201
« Reply #6 on: October 18, 2010, 07:09:26 pm »
Oh that's right!  They can't upgrade pandemoniums.  Unfortunately, that still makes the stall deck a likely pick for them.  Honestly, if it comes down to it, we could make a 60 card pile of shit deck and pray.

wizelsnarf

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Re: Strategy List: Entropy https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14157.msg179453#msg179453
« Reply #7 on: October 19, 2010, 12:28:18 am »
As long as we have some shields and cc a 60 card deck would probably own. Permafrost could be win.

hrmmm

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Re: Strategy List: Entropy https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14157.msg179756#msg179756
« Reply #8 on: October 19, 2010, 12:27:46 pm »
argh, please no 60 card decks in the 1st round.
we would need a huge amount of pillar/pendulums for getting this to work.
this would block our vault.
besides 60 card decks are unreliable like hell (you wont draw this stupid heal if you need it).

Offline willng3Topic starter

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Re: Strategy List: Entropy https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14157.msg181792#msg181792
« Reply #9 on: October 22, 2010, 03:25:02 pm »
Well, seeing as how we have 2 :entropy battles during round 1...we need to come up with two different ideas for taking them out.  I'll keep mulling it over today.

EDIT:  And The Dictator Predicts I'll lose my duel...I refuse to lose now.
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hrmmm

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Re: Strategy List: Entropy https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14157.msg181807#msg181807
« Reply #10 on: October 22, 2010, 03:47:26 pm »
yep... but dont forget: they have make 2 decks aswell.

a rough guess from me:
1 high cc deck (chaos power + pandemonium)
2 discord deck (maybe + blackhole / earthquakes)

Offline willng3Topic starter

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Re: Strategy List: Entropy https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=14157.msg181815#msg181815
« Reply #11 on: October 22, 2010, 03:58:26 pm »
I'm considering a :fire / :life duo and a :darkness / :life duo:  one for CC denial, and the other for quanta denial, any other thoughts?
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anything
blarg: