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Offline pikachufan2164Topic starter

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Round 2 - Main Topic https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=32461.msg410195#msg410195
« on: October 15, 2011, 07:58:56 am »
Please keep all discussion for Round 2 in this thread so that everything is in one place. Thanks :)

Chatroom: http://webchat.mibbit.com (Channel: #seedsofvictory)

Deckbuilding Phase: Duel phase has started

Duel Phase: Round has ended

Life Deck Tracker: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AuLG6-uKpq33dDMxbXZqSU5fcDNhbkNuSmFTcUV2UWc#gid=0

Standing Vault: http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,31890.0.html
:life
23x Emerald Pillar
46x Life Pendulum
12x Emerald Dragon
16x Horned Frog
12x Cockatrice
7x Forest Spirit
9x Heal
8x Thorn Carapace
3x Emerald Shield
16x Adrenaline
6x Forest Scorpion
10x Mitosis
16x Druidic Staff

:aether
6x Lightning
6x Dimensional Shield
4x Fractal

:air
1x Fog Shield
3x Flying Weapon
5x Wings

:darkness
3x Steal
2x Nightfall
5x Minor Vampire
4x Cloak

:death
0x Poison
0x Arsenic

:earth
1x Stone Pillar
2x Earth Pendulum
5x Graboid
2x Enchant Artifact
2x Earthquake
6x Stone Skin
0x Basilisk Blood

:entropy
3x Maxwell's Demon
5x Nova
4x Discord

:fire
2x Burning Pillar
2x Fire Pendulum
6x Fire Bolt
6x Deflagration
4x Rage Potion
2x Fahrenheit

:gravity
6x Black Hole

:light
2x Light Pillar
2x Light Pendulum
3x Crusader
6x Sanctuary

:time
5x Reverse Time
2x Eternity

:water
2x Water Pillar
2x Water Pendulum
2x Purify
5x Arctic Squid
Salvages:
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52o 52o 52o 52o 52o 52o 52q 52r 52r 52r 5un 5un 5un 5un 5un 5un 606 606 606 606 606 606 606 606 606 606 606 606 71a 71b 71b 8pk

Discards:
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593 593 593 593 595 595 595 595 595 595 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bu 5bu 5bu 5bu 5bu 5bu 5c7 5c7 5c7 5c7 5de 5de 5de 5de 7ac 7ac 7ac 8pm

Conversions:


Event Card:

Battle pairings are done using Elements only. Generals assign a player from their team to each of the 8 battles.

- PM the Warmasters
aether1 = Bill
aether2 = Jack
etc.
Match-ups:
Gen. willng3 vs. :water Lt. Jappert
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5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5c5 5c5 61t 61t 61t 61t 61t 622 622 622 622 7bu 7bu 7bu 7ae 7ae 7ae 7ae 7ae 7ae 8pu

Lt. ak65ala vs. :darkness Lt. Wizardcat
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5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5c7 5c7 5c7 5c7 5c9 5c9 5c5 5c5 5c5 5c5 5l8 5mq 5lm 5lm 5lm 7n2 7n2 7n2 7k5 7k5 7k5 8pq

pikachufan2164 vs. :death PlayerOa
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5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5de 5de 5de 5de 5c0 5c0 5c0 5c0 5c0 5c0 5c2 5c2 5c2 52o 52o 52o 52o 52o 52o 7ak 71a 71a 8pk

The Mormegil vs. :air Robotocracy
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5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5c2 5c2 5c2 5c2 5c2 5c2 5c3 5c3 5c5 5c5 5f0 5f0 5gi 5gi 5f4 5f4 5f4 5f4 5f4 5f4 5f6 5f6 5f6 5fb 7dr 7dr 7dr 8po

Isei vs. :entropy PoLdeR
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5bs 5bs 5bs 5de 5de 5de 5c1 5c1 5c7 5c7 5c7 5c7 5c7 61q 5og 52q 52q 590 590 590 590 590 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 7ae 7ae 7dm 8pm

LifeLockable vs. :light suxerz
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5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5de 5de 5de 5de 5bt 5bt 5bt 5c0 5c0 5c0 5c0 5c0 5c0 5c2 5c2 5c4 5rk 5rk 5rk 5rk 5rk 5ro 5ro 7bu 7bu 7bu 8ps

Noobiecakes vs. :earth bogtro
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5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5bt 5bt 5bt 5bu 5bu 5c9 5c9 5c5 5c5 5oo 5oo 5oo 5oo 5oo 7ae 7ae 7ae 8pr

9270984 vs. :time valuka
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5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5c7 5c7 5c7 5c7 5c7 5uq 5uq 5ut 5ut 5ut 5ut 5ut 5v2 5v2 5v2 5v2 7t9 7t9 7t9 8pt
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Offline ak65ala

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Re: Round 2 - Main Topic https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=32461.msg410540#msg410540
« Reply #1 on: October 15, 2011, 09:35:22 pm »
 :light  :darkness  :time  :entropy  :death  :earth  :air  :water

We get to pick who goes into which battle... not too bad of an event card!  It doesn't change any balance at all.  I find it both boring and revealing at the same time.

Offline willng3

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Re: Round 2 - Main Topic https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=32461.msg410556#msg410556
« Reply #2 on: October 15, 2011, 09:52:50 pm »
Well...the only thing it does make difficult is that there's a small possibility of us facing 8 generals this next round; it'll be difficult trying to counter some opponents when the threat of facing 9 upgraded cards is breathing in our faces. 

Teams weakened most by last Round (2 losses):  :darkness, :light.
Teams weakened slightly by last Round (1 loss):  :water, :time, :death (no salvage from last round)
Teams strengthened by last Round (0 losses):  :entropy, :air, :earth.

Happy not to see :fire this time!  Remember that we also get to gain a bit of information on :darkness's vault from last Round's Event card.  According to kev we get this information on Monday.
We need to figure out what to discard from our deck that lost last round...which is going to be difficult with us only being able to salvage 7 important cards.

Just a reminder:  There is a Duels thread posted for each round, everyone (including myself) needs to post any arrangements made between themselves and their opponent on this thread.  I was pleased to see that we didn't have to sub last round, but it was very close and I was very concerned about having to sub because I myself had no idea when that last match was supposed to be finished.  It really doesn't look good when someone asks a general when a match is supposed to take place on the final day of dueling and their only response is, "No idea."  Furthermore, if your opponent is unresponsive to your PMs then it would be more beneficial for us to figure out if subbing arrangements are being made for the other team, and this is usually faster if all of us are aware that a sub might be needed.
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Offline The_Mormegil

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Re: Round 2 - Main Topic https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=32461.msg410567#msg410567
« Reply #3 on: October 15, 2011, 10:10:59 pm »
Sooo....

1) Event Card doesn't change a thing, really. We're going to field the decks rather than the players and decide which decks need more upgrades than the others, basically. .-.

2) We went kind of lucky this time: no Fire, no Aether. I'd rather have Gravity than Entropy, but you can't have everything.

3) Salvages. We won't use Parasites or Pends, so I guess we're getting more poisons. I don't think Bonewalls would do us a fat lot of good. One Arsenic can be splashed into a novagrabby and is always useful. I say 1 Arsenic 5 Poisons.

4) Discards. 24 cards from that deck are going to hurt like hell. D: We basically have three choices: save the BBs because the AdrenaBB Frogs are boss; save the EQs because without them, our Earth Stall is less effective; save something Life because we fear suicides in later rounds or think we'll need those frogs or whatever. All have their pros (listed) and cons (not being the other two). I won't express myself on this too much, but we can probably use our decks for this round as a discriminant.

5) Matchups. More to come when it's not this late in the evening, but for now my initial thoughts are:

:light - They will try to stall us or deny us. I think a deck that counters an Entropy duo (akin to that used last War, with Discords, Crusaders and Antimatters) and can break through stalls (stacking damage?) is our best bet. Maybe some kind of Release the River deck, with growing spirits as main offense and novas to avoid being too scrambled?

:darkness - They lost once, now they know we planned against their stalls. I think they will try a healing-heavy stall next time (sanc-bolt-stall?). Ghostmere is another possibility. Let's try to test the earth stall against them, possibly with some BBs (even just a couple) to enable the BB'd Dragon Mitosis strategy (it's enough to kill many stalls, as you can just sit there mitosising your dragon all day long, you have like 40 cards and everything...).

:time - Strange deck choices. Not what I expected. But in both cases, they countered what killed them last War. Let's look at the War archives and see if we find inspiration.

:entropy - Huge sancstall? They like their Discords, and rightfully so.

:death - They are very likely to test against our Water duo, as both will and AK used one in Trials, it's effective, and we will need Purify against Death. Also, Bonewall + Plague kills Life's offensive methods... I vote for Firestall. Bypasses shields, the CC is enough for their creatures and we have some healing for the poison. Possibly a slim 35 cards version without much PC as I don't see many potential problematic permanents besides the obvious Arsenics.

:earth - They are wary of their Wings weakness, both their decks were built with that in mind. However, they can't counter Wings when it comes from every team, can they?

:air - They are unpredictable. But, they are working with "what works": Fire OP cards and Air rush cards. I expect simple, effective decks. I think we need to surprise them a bit here. We will also need some PC. Deflag splash with 6x Dragons?

:water - A comment on their Gravity match told us much of their strategic flaws: "Anybody who made it knew what to play against us." Gravity brought a creatureless deck (CataTitans is effectively creatureless unless you don't want it to be) with Dimensional Shields (capitalizing on their absence of PC cards) and unblockable damage. A permanent heavy stall deck should prove effective. Maybe even just a Dim Shield deck with Lightnings to take off some of their worse creatures (squids, chrysaoras). I suspect they'll bring 1-2 purifies in their deck just in case we use Scorpions or Death duo again.
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Offline pikachufan2164Topic starter

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Re: Round 2 - Main Topic https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=32461.msg410953#msg410953
« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2011, 01:11:51 pm »
We should start by focusing on :entropy, :air, and :earth, since they're the top teams and have more card options to work with.

Some thoughts:

:air - Having three upped cards at their disposal means that they can use their much more cost-effective upped creatures: Sky Dragon and Elite Wyrm. As Pervepic's a straight-shooter when it comes to deckbuilding, he'll be sticking them into many of Air's decks. Our answer? Discord and upped Maxwell's Demon. Discords delay those high-cost creatures, while Maxwell shoots them down while needing 2 Shockwaves (or 1 Shockwave and an OE snipe) to take out. Complement with Emerald Dragons (6 HP and airborne) for a well-balanced deck.

:light - Earthquakes. Not sure if majofa has tried to correct for it, but Higs pointed out last War that Light was very weak to Earthquakes. Especially if we're expecting a stall.

From an EQ PU Novagrabby vs. SS/EQ Sancstall match-up:
Another, "Oh we play light, lets pack EQs and heavy damage and win" matchup.  Except I swear he had 13 copies of EQ this time.  I'm 95% sure he pulled all 5 in the top 1/2 of his deck both games.  I'm going to go suicide IRL now.
Has Light learned to adapt from this?
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Offline The_Mormegil

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Re: Round 2 - Main Topic https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=32461.msg411010#msg411010
« Reply #5 on: October 16, 2011, 03:26:12 pm »
:air - Having three upped cards at their disposal means that they can use their much more cost-effective upped creatures: Sky Dragon and Elite Wyrm. As Pervepic's a straight-shooter when it comes to deckbuilding, he'll be sticking them into many of Air's decks. Our answer? Discord and upped Maxwell's Demon. Discords delay those high-cost creatures, while Maxwell shoots them down while needing 2 Shockwaves (or 1 Shockwave and an OE snipe) to take out. Complement with Emerald Dragons (6 HP and airborne) for a well-balanced deck.
From my experience in the Air team: Air is possibly THE worst team to use Discord against. No, really, trust me on this. Wings is a counter to Discord (really, it is: low cost shield that grants 5 turns of protection against scramble), and every one of their decks without Wings (maybe even some stalls WITH Wings) will have Fog Shields. Fog has a 40% chance to nullify your scramble for the turn, and that's enough to get the quanta to play cards. To this, add that Air/Light stall with Sanctuary is very effective and you have your answer.

Also, it's very very possible that they'll play their own personal version of BoneBolt against us: Flying OE + Bonewall was Team Air's BEST deck in War #2, and a brutal one in War #3 too; might mod it to include Shockwaves for faster killing. Finally, Flesh Recluses make for a deadly Wings + Poison deck, very fast, very stable, very effective. Backup on Bonewalls if needed, too.

What I would do against Air is playing Fractix packing heavy PC and some CC. I'd test this deck:
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5f6 5f6 5f6 5f6 5fb 5fb 5fb 5fb 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bt 5bt 5bt 7ad 7ad 7ad 5c9 5c9 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 8po

Quote
:light - Earthquakes. Not sure if majofa has tried to correct for it, but Higs pointed out last War that Light was very weak to Earthquakes. Especially if we're expecting a stall.
Light is ALWAYS expecting Earthquakes. Especially in the initial rounds, where you go blindly against the teams and try to exploit the obvious weaknesses. However, as with Earth and Wings, expecting is not the same thing as being able to counter that threat in EVERY deck. Also, we should have discarded our EQs last round, so they might not expect it after all.
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Offline willng3

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Re: Round 2 - Main Topic https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=32461.msg411264#msg411264
« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2011, 12:50:20 am »
Still considering deck options, but I just came across something rather interesting that you all might like to hear:

While testing the various interactions of Adrenaline with about 400000000 different cards today, I noticed that Discord now Scrambles once for every hit that it makes.  Which basically means that you get to scramble up to 30 quanta from just ONE Discord every turn.  Need a denial deck?  There's an idea.
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Offline TheCrazyMango

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Re: Round 2 - Main Topic https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=32461.msg411277#msg411277
« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2011, 01:08:06 am »
im now experimenting with an adrenaflyingdiscorpions deck
and a novabow with adrenadiscopsions
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Offline willng3

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Re: Round 2 - Main Topic https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=32461.msg411351#msg411351
« Reply #8 on: October 17, 2011, 05:21:12 am »
So I've been a bit obsessed with the concept of a denial deck this evening...and I think I've come up with something really good.  Unfortunately the deck will only function well as a Lt. + deck, but...it's very, very strong.

Anyways, I give you - WTF (Wraith of The Forest)
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4vl 4vl 4vl 55v 55v 593 593 5bu 5bu 5bu 5bu 5c7 5c7 5c7 5c7 5c7 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5oi 5oi 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u5 8pj

My god is this deck mean.  Unless you fail to draw a Supernova or a Discord within the first 10 cards of your deck, complete lockdown is very, very likely for the opponent.  The 4th Discord is kind of a random upgrade, but I don't see what else would be worth upgrading.  An Earthquake would probably be good...
I've played about 50 games total with this deck against AI3 and only lost once.  The biggest threats are completely fail draws and decks with excessive numbers of Quantum Pillars.  It's one of the most passive aggressive denial decks I've ever built.

Will it come in use this round?  Not sure yet, I'll sleep on it a bit more.
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Re: Round 2 - Main Topic https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=32461.msg411378#msg411378
« Reply #9 on: October 17, 2011, 07:08:14 am »
So I've been a bit obsessed with the concept of a denial deck this evening...and I think I've come up with something really good.  Unfortunately the deck will only function well as a Lt. + deck, but...it's very, very strong.

Anyways, I give you - WTF (Wraith of The Forest)
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Deck import code : [Select]
4vl 4vl 4vl 55v 55v 593 593 5bu 5bu 5bu 5bu 5c7 5c7 5c7 5c7 5c7 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5oi 5oi 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u5 8pj

My god is this deck mean.  Unless you fail to draw a Supernova or a Discord within the first 10 cards of your deck, complete lockdown is very, very likely for the opponent.  The 4th Discord is kind of a random upgrade, but I don't see what else would be worth upgrading.  An Earthquake would probably be good...
I've played about 50 games total with this deck against AI3 and only lost once.  The biggest threats are completely fail draws and decks with excessive numbers of Quantum Pillars.  It's one of the most passive aggressive denial decks I've ever built.

Will it come in use this round?  Not sure yet, I'll sleep on it a bit more.
I'd upgrade a Quicksand or even a Black Hole. However, the deck seems very nice. Have you tested if the Adrenaline'd Discord scrambles 3x in the game too? (Just checking it isn't just a trainer thing, as that would be a bad surprise). Also, only 2 Flying Weapons? Are we sure?
[18:21:43] jmdt: elements is just math over top of a GUI
Kakerlake: I believe that there is no God as in something that can think by itself and does stuff that sounds way OP.

Offline willng3

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Re: Round 2 - Main Topic https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=32461.msg411432#msg411432
« Reply #10 on: October 17, 2011, 10:39:30 am »
Yep, it scrambles 3x in game as well.  The 2 FW situation is about the only thing I would switch in this deck, but it really needs the denial from both BH and EQ for it to be so potent.  I originally tried Nova versions with either 2 EQ or 2 BH or a mix of both and just found that I couldn't get the denial powerful enough for it to matter.

LifeLockable is also going to need to be replaced after reading his post on the Absences thread...let's hope I can find a proper replacement.
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Offline The_Mormegil

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Re: Round 2 - Main Topic https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=32461.msg411475#msg411475
« Reply #11 on: October 17, 2011, 12:42:40 pm »
Yep, it scrambles 3x in game as well.  The 2 FW situation is about the only thing I would switch in this deck, but it really needs the denial from both BH and EQ for it to be so potent.  I originally tried Nova versions with either 2 EQ or 2 BH or a mix of both and just found that I couldn't get the denial powerful enough for it to matter.

LifeLockable is also going to need to be replaced after reading his post on the Absences thread...let's hope I can find a proper replacement.
An idea: try it with 32 cards, +1 FW, +1 Life Pend or Frog. Don't know if it's better or worse.
[18:21:43] jmdt: elements is just math over top of a GUI
Kakerlake: I believe that there is no God as in something that can think by itself and does stuff that sounds way OP.

 

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