Author

willng3 · « **on:** January 31, 2013, 08:33:39 pm »

Chatroom: http://piratepad.net/theonlyrealteamlife

Deckbuilding:
Duel phase has started

Duels:
Fighting ends!

Spoiler for Standing Vault:

Spoiler for Discards:

Spoiler for Salvaging:

Spoiler for Event Card:

Spoiler for Match-ups:

nensuru · « **Reply #1 on:** January 31, 2013, 10:48:13 pm »

Enemies of our enemies
( ) means they own general battle
~ ~ means enemy general battle

	Vs
		~ ~ ~ ~ ( )
		~ ~ ~ ~ ( )
		~ ~ ~ ~ ( )
		( )
		~ ~ ()
		~ ~ ( )

S/D/C

Salvage:

-Time/light stall: we cant do much with this cards i believe, use it as conversion fodder
-Entropy: we can try something with discord, like this:

Spoiler for Hidden:

-Tugons: +1 dims (10 in vault), +3 tus (10 in vault), +3 conversion fodder

Discard:

-Nature's wrath: we got 8 deflags, since fire stall doesnt require the use of these we can discard 3, -3 heals and we still have enough for fire stall, - 3 pends/pillar, with these change this deck would lose the cc side of it and be just a plain rush, like this:

Spoiler for Hidden:

-Gravity duo: we cant afford to lose scorps, with this in mind i believe this deck is dead, -3 chargers, -3 momentum, -4 adrenaline. we got 16 adrenalines on vault so, these 4 are not going to hurt too much
-Darkness duo: we can use all conversion fodder from this round to keep this deck alive, or just kill it

willng3 · « **Reply #2 on:** January 31, 2013, 11:51:04 pm »

I think we should be able to maintain use of the Gravity duo if we were to convert the cards that we can't use in our Grabbow anymore since we didn't manage to salvage any Nova. Unless we want to hold onto them in the event that we manage to salvage a few Nova in the future, that is.

willng3 · « **Reply #3 on:** February 01, 2013, 02:17:34 am »

Thoughts on the matchups for this round:

Versus Aether: Aether's probably going to cover a very large base of decks that we can throw at them for this round. With us revealing 2 decks with Momentum usage I'd be surprised if they went with RoL/Hope again. deuce may end up using a Mono Aether rush again. Actually, I think that's very likely for some reason.

Versus Entropy: We had no problems using our Air duos two rounds in a row against them last War, so I wouldn't be surprised if they attempted to counter it accordingly this round. I could see them using a fatter stall of their own or an Aether duo with PUgons (and Dims of course). I could only see Frogtal with Silences winning in either of those cases, although PUgons with Silences might be able to handle it as well.

Versus Gravity: They had some...interesting decks last round. I actually wondered about salvaging 6 Rewinds from our Light duel and then using them for this matchup. I'd expect Gravity to counter Rewind using some of their decks, but that's against opponents who actually put them to good use and we're not known for that. Of course, I have no idea what to stick in the deck past that. I could use Giant Frogs and such, but I'd be worried about facing Dims.

Versus Water: Their deck choice against us last round seemed really weird to me. Either of our Aether duos would have handled them easily. So much so that I'd expect them to try and counter it this round. I think AdrenaTitans would work well here; I didn't really see any decks of theirs last round that looked like it could handle it.

Versus Darkness: This really seems like a good opportunity for them to try and use Devtal. However, I actually don't know if we have anything that counters Devtal since the Grabbow's unusable.

Versus Light: I really doubt they'd let themselves get countered by our PUgons again. Or maybe that's what they want us to think?

nensuru · « **Reply #4 on:** February 01, 2013, 11:17:47 pm »

Vs

- i agree with you Will, mono aether with 2 lobotomizers to stop our momeuntum. I suggest sending a fire stall:

Spoiler for Hidden:

as they are probably using dims, fahren is a waste of a card here, also i slimmed the deck so it cannot be outrushed by a mono fractal deck and raises the chances of drawing the shield that counters psions, there is a excess of life quanta, but that is to make the fire quanta grow faster so we can otk sooner.

Vs

- they are afraid of our anti-entropy i think, so either they are trying to outrush us or stop our stall from working, from the decks they played last round we should consider facing discoeq(novabow or duo) and deflag splash, since we have no pillarless decks i have no idea what to send against this, maybe a phoenix duo, with those phoenix upgraded so the deck is not affected to harshly by the quanta denial and if they expect us to predict that they are sending a anti-quanta denial deck, grabbow for example, they will try something with wings, phoenix is also good in this situation since it can fly

Spoiler for Hidden:

I also dont expect them to use cc (most of our famous decks: pugons, frogtal, anti-entropy doesnt care about cc) so we can take advantage of that and use mitosis, deflags are there just in case

Vs

- lotsa catatitans, we should use lotsa deflags, this deck:

Spoiler for Hidden:

is a pretty crazy one but can work agains mostly of what they can trow at us with execption of gravity pull decks
we can also try the safe way and use frogtal or something, but if they expect that they can counteract with disco bh bow or eq/pulverizer or something like that, or they just try to outrush us with catatitans
EDIT: the rt idea is actually good because they are facing 4 other pc less elements this round, luring out dim shields from their part

yes Will, good call on that grabbow conversion, we should do that

mathman101 · « **Reply #5 on:** February 02, 2013, 09:18:06 am »

First I'm gonna admitt that I'm not very good at creating decks, or countering decks. I'm more of a numbers/stats/do what I'm told kind of guy.
...but I had a few ideas, they may just be spitballs, but the ball has to start rolling somewhere.

Aether: maybe some kind of stall with heals and possibly miracles(salvaged from Bell's match), this could possibly out last dim shields and they only showed one silence (?but there may be others?), but this might not outlast a rush.

Entropy: It seemed our airstall worked quite well last time, so I think maybe try to use something similar. they for sure have 3 steals, and 1 deflag, and they may keep/discard up to 5 deflags.

Gravity: it looks like they've got some hard hitters(catapults, titans,) and a bit of quanta denial (black-hole, discord, pulvy). I'm not so sure of a good deck for them, but maybe something like an adrenaTitans, or adrenaStaves.

Water: Again I'm kinda thinking on the limb with this one, but maybe something with discords(salvaged from my match) and something like frogs,cocks,or dragons. they do not show lots of perm control (2 steals,1 deflag), but they have potential to salvage some more. this may help with holding out a discords, or somekind of sheild or something.

Darkness: they do have a bit of perm control, and some creature control, but I feel they may take the cc to their Aether and Fire battles instead (just a hunch). for this deck, i would suggest possibly making use of some of our fire cards like the phoenix's and rage potions.(maybe?)

Light: not sure about this (maybe its b/c its the last I looked at?) we could possibly use whats left for a modifyied PUgons or Frogtal. only downside I see is Light has lots of healing(miracle,sanctuary,lucifren), so we should use something that can be fast.

Again take these with a grain of salt, as I'm not the best deckbuilder, they're more for an idea to bounce around and look at the outside of the box.

I do like the previous ideas that will and nen already gave, and the ideas for salvage,discard, conversion fodder sound good.

I'll try and re-edit this tommorow morning with a clear head, as 3am is not when I do my best thinking.

nensuru · « **Reply #6 on:** February 03, 2013, 12:56:47 pm »

Vs

- i agree with sending adrenatitans

Vs

- they have a lot of denial decks, 3 so far: ghostmare, discord duo and devtal, they should also have some eqs in vault to use with devs, i think we can expect to see one of these against us and aether, we should try to rush here, mono life seens risky but is not greatly affected by quanta denial

Spoiler for Hidden:

Vs

- frogtal or pu gons should do fine here

Belligerence · « **Reply #7 on:** February 03, 2013, 04:16:10 pm »

Spoiler for Discards::

Spoiler for Salvages::

Spoiler for Predictions::

willng3 · « **Reply #8 on:** February 03, 2013, 07:52:16 pm »

Comments on deck ideas:

Vs Aether: Most of us seem to agree that stalling is a good idea here, and more seem to agree with Firestall. I also like the sound of Firestall; nen's suggestion looks promising.

Vs Entropy: Doesn't seem to be much agreement on this one, which makes sense given that this is a Element that we've had difficulty preparing for since War...2? Anyways, Discord is going to give Frogtal problems unless we make sure it's packed with tons of quanta. I could also totally see them creating a duo just for running Explosions and then standard Entropy stuff; basically it'd be nearly the same as their last deck, just with PC this time in favor of something else. If this is the case then nen's suggestion should work well, although I think it needs a few more Pends/Pillars to guarantee more of them in each starting hand versus Discord.

Vs Gravity: Big thing to keep in mind here is that Catapult Titans is a very real threat and is very threatening to several decks that we used last round; it's much faster than it appears and completely destroys stalls thanks to OTK factor. I would advise designing a deck to make sure that this doesn't smash our face in, which is partly why I thought the Rewind duo suggestion would do well here. The AdrenaStaves deck should also work since the Deflags take care of Catapult, although I'm a bit concerned with our Flying Weapon distribution.

Vs Water: People seem to like AdrenaTitans here, but I don't think we can use it if we send AdrenaStaves versus Gravity. Although we might be able to afford to use 4 AW versus Gravity, now that I think about it. EDIT: Actually, no. I didn't realize we took 8 and not 9 Animate Weapons. We might, MIGHT, be able to substitute an Elite Charger in here though somehow.

Vs Darkness: nen's Mono Life suggestion is probably our best bet here since I'm almost positive that some form of denial is coming our way. We basically have to hit hard and fast or become completely helpless for the entire matchup. We may want to go with 14 Pillars/Pends just to ensure that we draw more in the opening hand. 1 less Dragon would work for this.

Vs Light: I'd advise against using our Anti-Entropy deck here since nearly everything that Light likes to use creature-wise is either bulky as hell or airborne. We have 2 suggestions at minimum for decks using 6 upgrades outside of our general matchup, so I don't think Frogtal is going to be usable here. I think Bell's expectation for them to use Sancs this time is probably correct, especially when considering that PUgons is extremely threatening to them period. What about our Mitosis Chimera Dragon deck here? I seriously doubt they'll rush, and anything using Reverse Time is probably out of the question after the results of that last game. Plus, it's one heck of a stallbreaker.

My biggest concern here is that we appear to want to use quite a few decks using a lot of Life cards which is probably going to create problems for some of these matches (like using more Mitosis than we currently have available, for instance). Also, if we have 2 decks which we want to run with 6 upgrades then a Berserker is going to be required for that matchup, and we'll be required to discard 3 cards. It's doable, just keep in mind the risks of that decision.

EDIT: Actually AdrenaTitans can also be used for the Berserker duel with -1 upgraded Titan +1 unupped Titan. 2 cards are required in that case.

mathman101 · « **Reply #9 on:** February 03, 2013, 11:50:45 pm »

Taking a better look at what Will, Bell and Nen, all put for possible deck ideas,discards, and salvages, I did some number theory, looked at the vault, and tried to create some possible deck combinations.

Spoiler for vs.aether:

Spoiler for vs.entropy:

Spoiler for vs.gravity:

Spoiler for vs.water:

Spoiler for vs.darkness:

Spoiler for vs.light:

I did not put in the upgraded cards b/c it didn't sound clear who would be the Lt. and if the beserker would use extra upgrades.
If we use these 6 decks, or at least as a starting point, then here is what a possible salvage and discard options could be:

Spoiler for discards:

Spoiler for salvage:

Spoiler for left in vault:

most of these are not my ideas for decks/discards/salvages, i'm just compiling them into one, and showing that IF we go with these ideas, what will be left in the vault in case we need to make any modifications. Also I looked at these based on the numbers of cards, not based on how well a deck will perform against another. Also Also i gave this a double check, but someone might want to give it the triple just so we don't mess up the card counts like during the vault building(no nova mistake).

(I'll finish editing what would be left in the vault in a moment, i just have to go grab a bite to eat first)

willng3 · « **Reply #10 on:** February 04, 2013, 12:09:37 am »

Turns out both Math and I were working on this separately, neato.

Deck proposal #1:

Spoiler for Decks used:

Standard Bearer Vs Aether:

Spoiler for Hidden:

We're pretty much going to have to pray that they don't use something with Fractal against this deck, but we're most likely going to have to take a gamble with this match no matter how you look at it. Jade Shield should at least keep Psions away if they use them and it actually gets drawn.

Berserker Vs Entropy:

Spoiler for Hidden:

1 more quanta producer, but I still feel like it might need more since our opponent will probably be able to drop Discord by turn 1. Requires a Lt. to use.

General Vs Gravity:

Spoiler for Hidden:

Added some Fahrenheits for some extra damage; they're probably not needed in the long run. Carapace can help handle some random decks like Fractal Mercs or anything with Nymphs. There's a huge difference in weapons and Animate Weapons, but I figured it'd probably be a better idea to have a weapon to draw than sit and wait for one to finally appear. 5 Adrens for extra draw chance as well as being able to Adren some opposing creatures and kill them off with Carapace (situational versus Gravity though, I know).

EDIT: Revised for better draws.

Lieutenant Vs Water:

Spoiler for Hidden:

Only allows for 4 Titans to be flown at the same time, but it pretty much runs the same. In most cases a single Titan on the field will be enough to win the game. I'd expect them to use some kind of EQ/Trident based deck here seeing as how much of it they salvaged last round, but I honestly don't see that causing much of a problem either way (takes too long for EQ to actually get played). 2 discards required for this deck to run.

EDIT: Revised to account for an additional upgrade bonus from the Berserker.

Quartermaster Vs Darkness:

Spoiler for Hidden:

With this build 1 quanta starting draws should be very, very rare. A few turns down the road and you should be swimming in quanta. Kills in 6-7 turns pretty easily.

Strategist Vs Light:

Spoiler for Hidden:

I had 4 Mitosis in here at first, but found myself getting 4 Pillar starting hands way too often, so I reduced it to 3. Laughs at Reverse Times and EQs.

Spoiler for Cards required:

Discard 1 Pulvy and 4 Graboids to pay off the 3 card penalty as well as the Berserker upgrade fee.

With these numbers (assuming I can math today) the only thing that's missing Vault-wise would be the Pillars, which we can just convert anyways. I strongly advise against discarding cards that we cannot get back unless absolutely needed (only exception being the Darkness duo since I just don't see how we can keep it running), and Life cards should be the last to be discarded if at all possible since we'll most likely need to use them in the most decks. This means that Pends and Pillars would make good priorities since we can convert stuff we don't need later while keeping the stuff that we do need.

Mainly getting this out there so that we don't find ourselves running around at the last minute. If you have any suggestions or objections, speak now; nothing is final yet.

nensuru · « **Reply #11 on:** February 04, 2013, 12:17:46 am »

Gonna discuss here about vault, but i am not sure if this rule "At least 50% of in elements cards" applies only during vault building or for the full duration of war, can anyone clarify this to me?

Another question: does the deck penality applies for the deck only or for the vault?

And another: does the 9 off elements cards limity applies only to vault building or for the entire war?

S/D/C

-Vault for round 1:
313 cards, 190 of them are life cards
50% of 313 = at least 157 life cards in vault so it can be legal
33 "surplus" life cards

-Vaul for round 2:
Salvaging: +24
Discarding: -36
The vault is 12 card shorter
301 cards, ?? of them are life
50% of 301 = we need to finish this round with 151 life cards in vault so it can be legal
trough S/C/D we can afford to lose a maximum of 39 life cards

Note: berserker's ability should also be acconted in this process

Discards: -22/23 life cards

-3 heals, -2/3 deflagrations, -5/6 pends, -8/-9 life cards
-2 steals, -4 nightmares, -2 dagger, -3 pends, -3 life cards
-3 adrenas, 3 pillars, 5 oends, -11 life cards

With this, we got a "surplus" of 17/16 life cards, this means that we should salvage all useful cards from those decks, after all we can convert them at the future anyway

Salvages:

entropy: +3 discord, +4 abomination, +3 entropy pends, i build this deck with this salvage:

Spoiler for Hidden:

and i believe is the strongest deck we can make with the salvage, not a really powerful deck, but it is at least something to use with these salvaged cards when needed
upped pends because if we draw 1 of them we can play a discord on second turn, wich is great, and also to feed mito aboms
I picked aboms over dragons because they both are 1:1 atk/cost ratios, but abom is cheaper, and so it synergize with mitosis better

light: +6/5 rts, +1/2 eternity

aether: agreed with Belligerance

gonna read what you guys posted and they post about matchups

Author

willng3

Round 2 Discussion https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=46444.msg1037358#msg1037358

nensuru

Re: Round 2 Discussion https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=46444.msg1037394#msg1037394

willng3

Re: Round 2 Discussion https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=46444.msg1037407#msg1037407

willng3

Re: Round 2 Discussion https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=46444.msg1037460#msg1037460

nensuru

Re: Round 2 Discussion https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=46444.msg1037700#msg1037700

mathman101

Re: Round 2 Discussion https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=46444.msg1037798#msg1037798

nensuru

Re: Round 2 Discussion https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=46444.msg1038137#msg1038137

Belligerence

Re: Round 2 Discussion https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=46444.msg1038183#msg1038183

willng3

Re: Round 2 Discussion https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=46444.msg1038245#msg1038245

mathman101

Re: Round 2 Discussion https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=46444.msg1038302#msg1038302

willng3

Re: Round 2 Discussion https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=46444.msg1038305#msg1038305

nensuru

Re: Round 2 Discussion https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=46444.msg1038306#msg1038306