Round 2 Discussion

[Helston]

Chatroom:  http://piratepad.net/OldLadySoap

Deckbuilding:
Duel phase has started

Duels:
Round has ended

Duel phase starts when deckbuilding ends.

Spoiler for Standing Vault:

http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,38873.0.html

Spoiler for Salvages:

We get to salvage 6 cards from each of the following:

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55t 562 562 562 562 562 562 576 576 576 576 576 576 576 576 576 576 576 5up 5up 5uu 5uu 5v0 5v0 5v0 5v0 5v0 5v0 5v2 6rs 6rs 8pt

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4so 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f0 5f4 5f6 5f6 5f6 5fc 5fc 5fc 5fc 5fk 5fk 5gi 5gi 5gi 5gi 61t 61t 61t 61t 621 621 7dg 7f2 8pu

Spoiler for Discards:

We have to discard 12 cards from each of the following:

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4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 590 590 590 590 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5c5 5c5 5c5 5c5 5c5 5c5 5c7 5c7 5c7 5de 5de 5oi 5oi 5oi 7n2 7n2 8pm

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5bt 5bt 5bt 5bt 5bt 5bt 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5og 5ol 5ol 5ol 5on 5on 5on 5oo 5oo 7n8 7n8 8pr

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5bs 5bs 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5bt 5bt 5bt 5bt 5bt 61r 61r 61r 61r 61r 61t 61t 61t 61t 61t 624 624 624 7ac 7ac 7bu 7bu 7bu 8pu

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5c2 5c2 5c2 5c2 5c2 5c4 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5f0 5f4 5f4 5f4 5f4 5f4 5f4 5f7 5f7 5f7 5fb 5fb 5fb 5fb 5gi 7dg 7f2 8po

In addition, we lost one Shockwave for our bid on the event card and we'll need to discard 6 cards if swishy is promoted to the support team.

Spoiler for Event Card:

Event Card:





Notes:  A Scout may post the name of two cards before the deckbuilding deadline.  If the Scout wins the battle, s/he learns the number of said cards that were in his/her opponent’s vault at the beginning of the round.  Steal one copy of each if available.  If a scouted card is not present in the vault, steal 0 of that card.

Notes:  Generals (and Generals only) may create a "Round 2 Event Card decision" thread in their secret section and post which one of the above their team selects.

Spoiler for Match-ups:

Match-ups:

11

Water4

vs

Gen. willng3

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5bs 5bs 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5bt 5bt 5bt 5bt 5bt 5bt 61r 61r 61r 61r 61r 61t 61t 61t 61t 7ac 7ac 7bu 7bu 7bu 7bu 7bu 7bu 8pu

15

Death4

vs

killsdazombies

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5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5c2 5c7 5c7 5c7 5c7 5c7 55t 55t 55s 55s 55s 55s 55s 55s 7n2 7n2 7n2 7n2 7n2 8pl

16

Belligerence

vs

Light2

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5bt 5bt 5c2 5c2 5c2 5c2 5c5 5c5 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5f4 5f4 5fb 5fb 5fb 5fb 5fc 5fc 5fc 5fc 5fc 7bu 7bu 8po

[/deck]

17

Entropy3

vs

drolly

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5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5bt 5bt 5bt 5bt 5bt 5bt 5on 5on 5oo 5oo 5oo 5oo 5ol 7n5 7n5 8pr

28

UnderneathTheLens

vs

Gen. Jenkar

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5bs 5bs 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5bu 5bu 5c1 5c1 5c7 5c7 5c5 61q 61q 5og 590 590 590 590 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 55q 7dm 7dm 8pm

30

Earth5

vs

Helston

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5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5bu 5bu 5bu 5bu 61t 61t 61t 61t 61t 61t 622 622 622 622 624 624 624 624 7ae 7ae 8pu

Support Team Battles
for Round 1

plastiqe attacks Kai (two players set to defend)
Note: this match must be completed before the end of the deckbuilding phase

[Helston]

Support team:
Seeing as Kai will need to complete his match before the deckbuilding phase finishes, it's important to get going on ideas for him as soon as we can, although we can suggest anything we want to him, it's up to Kai as to what deck to use, and we have to rely on PMs to contact him.

The best place to start is what entropy cards plastiqe can use:

Spoiler for Entropy cards plastiqe has access to.:

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4vi 4vk 4vm 4vo 4vq

What's important to note is that the only expensive card is Butterfly Effect, so a large number of entropy pendulums are unlikely. Possible decks I can see are an Adrenaline/Fallen Elf based deck or a Schrödinger's Cat/death based deck with Chaos seeds and maybe Butterfly Effects as filler. The Schrödinger's Cat deck would could not contain either Bonewalls or Poison, so it would be fueling Vultures or Soul Catchers for Bone Dragons. A Fallen Elf based rainbow might also be possible, but without Nova I'd have to doubt its effectiveness compared to a simple duo with Adrenaline.

A simple stall or domination deck should be able to take care of either of either of these, preferably with higher-HP creatures. Butterfly Effect is a serious risk, so we should probably avoid permanents. A Life/Fire based on Nature's Wrath should do the trick, like so: (completely untested, just a rough idea)

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5c0 5c0 5c0 5c0 5c2 5c2 5c2 5c2 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5f6 5f6 5fb 5fb 5fb 5fb 5fc 5fc 5fc 5fc 5fc 8po

Deflags are in case of something like a Skull Shield, Rage Pots and Heals take care of the stalling elements whilst being the only two cards from Round 1, and the Phoenixes and Cockatrices are both fairly resilient.

Salvages:
Gravity: 2 LS, 1 Steal, 1 Cloak, 2 Shields (conversion fodder).
Fire: 4 Dim shields, 2 Burning Pillars

Discards:
This round we can almost get away with only discarding Pillars/Pendulums if we wanted to, whilst still having enough without needing to convert.

Adrenastaves: A lot of vital cards here for various decks, and only six Pillars/Pendulums. Assuming we discard them, we could discard a Nova, a Flying Weapon (5 of each left). a Graboid (4 left), an adrenaline (9 left) and two staves (5 left).
Shockwave Dragons: 12 Life Pendulums
PUgon: 8 Life Pendulums, 4 Dim shields
Firestall: 10 Life Pendulums, 2 Burning Pillars
Swishy's cost: 6 Life Pendulums.

Conversions:
2 Shields -> 2 Life Pillars

Those Darkness cards almost give us room for a non-Devtosis duo, although I'm not sure if there'd be much point trying to build up extra darkness cards considering how strong Devtosis can be. Keeping a couple of extra Dim Shields might also be a good idea, but that might just be taking more for the sake of it.
All this would leave us with a woefully low 56 Life Pillars/Pendulums, so we'd probably need to do some more conversions somewhere. No idea where to start with that one.

[willng3]

A quick reminder with Kai's deckbuilding options:  He is required to use cards that we used during Round 1.  As nearly everything in that proposed deck wasn't used, Kai can't use it.  Honestly we could just have him use a gigantic Life/Aether stall with Lightnings, Dims, Heals, Dragon + Fractal etc. and most likely deck them out.

Conversions and stuff:
Assuming each of our decks requires an average of 13 Pends/Pillars to field, we could use a Grabbow next Round to reduce the required amount further.  Even so I would assume we would need to convert 5 more cards to Pends/Pillars to maintain a 13 average among the remaining 5.  Food for thought.

Strategy processing against other teams in progress.

[Belligerence]

Kai has to use cards that Life used in Round 1? I thought it was the other way around, from reading the rules:

Spoiler for 7.3 Deckbuilding rules:

- Support Team decks may use cards that are in the vault, not in the vault, or any combination.
- At least 50% in-element cards
- No upgrades
- No rares
- If you are attacking you may not use any cards the Team used during the previous round in battle (plus all pillars/pendulums are usable).
- If you are defending you may use a number of cards that the Team used during the previous round of battle equal to the number of players defending the lines (plus all pillars/pendulums are usable).
- Deck creation can be a collaboration between Support teammates, Main Team members, or a solo act.  There's no need to submit decks prior to using them.

Spoiler for Example:

During last round's battles, Team Aether players used the following non-rare cards:

Lightning
Dimensional Shield
Phase Dragon
Parallel Universe
Phase Spider
Fractal
Deflagration
Phoenix
Nova
Momentum
Graboid
Fog Shield
Horned Frog

Aether's Support Team actions for the round were "Defend: 2, Attack Air: 1"  The attacking player may not use any cards from the above list but may use all other cards (and all pllars/pends regardless of whether they're in the above list).

The defending players may each use up to six copies of up to two cards from the above list plus all other cards (and all pillars/pends regardless of whether they're in the above list).  One of the defending decks could use six copies each of Lightning and Dimensional Shield, the other's could use four copies of Dimensional Shield, six copies of Phoenix, and all water cards, for instance.

Reading the rules, it sounds like Kai can't use cards that Life used last round. Except that since there's 2 people set to defend, each defender may use up to 6 copies of 2 different cards that Life used in Round 1? Am I reading it wrong?

I think Helston's discarding plan seems to be the best choice. If we discard and salvage the cards he suggests, the only deck that would be affected is the AdrenaStaves.

[willng3]

Mkay this is how I'm understanding the rules.

If you are attacking
Implies that this player's action was submitted as "attack x player" during the previous deckbuilding phase.

If you are defending
Implies that this player's action was submitted as "defend" during the previous deckbuilding phase.

Kai's action was submitted as defend, therefore he should be defending this Round.

What am I missing?

[Belligerence]

The way I was reading it is that, for each defending person, each defender may use *up to* 6 copies of x cards that your team used that round, where x is the number of defenders. Meaning that, with 2 defenders, Kai is able to use up to 6 copies of up to 2 different cards that team Life used during round 1.

Since Kai is defending, any deck he uses can have up to 6 copies of up to 2 cards from the following list:

Spoiler for Hidden:

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4vj 590 5bt 5bu 5c2 5c4 5c5 5c6 5c7 5c9 5f4 5fb 5og 5oi 5ol 5on 5oo 5ul 5um 5up 61q 61r 61t 622 624 8pq

As there are only 2 defenders, he may not use any deck with 3 or more of the cards on that list. But anything with 2 or less different cards on that list is fair game.


- If you are defending you may use a number of cards that the Team used during the previous round of battle equal to the number of players defending the lines (plus all pillars/pendulums are usable).

Unless I'm misreading it, it doesn't say you may use any number of cards the team used last round. It also doesn't say you have to use x number of cards the team used last round. Which makes me believe that, with 2 defenders, Kai is able to use a deck containing up to 6 copies of 2 different cards that team Life used last round, all other non-rare, non-upgraded cards not on that list are allowed. If there was only 1 person set to defend, the number of cards allowed from that list would be 1, not 2. I'll PM a WM to clarify, and if I'm wrong and I'm pushing this point incorrectly, I apologize. I just want to make sure the deck follows the rules.

[willng3]

It appears I misinterpreted "you may use a number of cards that the Team used during the previous round of battle equal to the number of players defending the lines" as the number of cards being determined based on the number that were used during the last round and the number of players defending that round.  So in other words if you used 6 Shields and had 2 players then you would be able to use 12 between them.

However, in reality everything Belligerence said is indeed correct according to Mith...I'll be making a post asking that the rules be updated to make this significantly less confusing shortly.

EDIT:  As much as I would like to make this suggestion, I can't find a wording that makes any more sense than what they have currently.  Oh well, we know what we're doing now.

[Belligerence]

[04:32:43 PM] Kai [»] Belligerence: hiya
[04:33:15 PM] Kai [»] Belligerence: me and opponent agreed on time
[04:33:22 PM] Kai [»] Belligerence: in little less than 2 hours from now
[04:33:35 PM] Belligerence [»] Kai: Alright

I'm on EST/EDT, which is -4 GMT... or something like that. I get confused. But anyway. Anyone who wants to spectate duel, its supposed to start in just under 2 hours from this post.

[willng3]

Not sure if I'll be able to make it at that time or not with everything that's going on here.  I will spectate and offer help if I can, however.

[Belligerence]

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5c0 5c0 5c0 5c0 5c2 5c2 5c2 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5de 5f6 5f6 5f6 5fb 5fb 5fb 5fb 5fc 5fc 5fc 5fc 5fc 8po

This is the deck he will be using, for anyone who didn't read the team chat. I'm slightly concerned now, however. Kai asked me if I would like to duel him using some of the decks we think Entropy might use. He went 1-2 (lose) against Aether duo, due to not drawing enough Deflags. His suggestion was - 1 Rage Potion, + 1 Deflag. Any thoughts?

[willng3]

Sure.  If it helps.

[Helston]

Sorry I haven't been as active this deckbuilding phase as the last one. I've been thinking about things a little, specifically what we send against entropy. Last round almost all their decks used Discord, and a few of them splashed in deflagrate. Will talk more tomorrow, will be online most of the day as well as up until deadline. Need sleep - tired, sick.