Re: Match with nyma

[Glitch]

SG, I understand your argument, but I'm not sure you understand mine.

Killz did quit his game twice, we all admit that.

But he quit it after he had won two games.  That's our point.  When life decided not to count the desynch win, it was only because entropy chose not to count the closed browser win.  And now that those count, I feel like the deal we made is undone, and the desynch should count.  If entropy can undo their decision not to count browsers closing, then why can't we count both our wins the first time around?  When nyma conceded, she didn't just decide to give the win to life.  (As I understand it) she agreed to count the desynch win.  So life gets one fair one.  Life loses one due to closing the tab.  Life wins desynch.  2-1 life, as reported.

I understand what you're saying.  We did fight a rematch.  I wasn't there for that.  But there's a difference between saying "yes a rematch is fair" and fighting a rematch when the warmaster and forum admin tell you to fight one.

I'm not trying to be disagreeable here, but I fail to see why the rematch was ever needed.  The first fight was a clear win for life.

[Daxx]

I find it funny that you guys blame everything from the other team, organizers, event rules, etc. You blame everything but the real reason why that match was played again. Here is the real reason:
killsdazombies closed the browser window twice.

2nd rematch or reverting the match result is not going to happen, and frankly I find it very strange that you, after a clean rematch, somehow assume that it's still a possibility.

We won the match before any of this browser window stuff took place. Therefore the browser closing is irrelevant.

KDZ played the rematch before he knew Gl1tch had the screenshot of his victory. Furthermore, he was pressured into it because the decision to redo the match was made without consulting us.

We want to take back our concession like Entropy took back theirs.

This is a poor decision. You're not even considering our complaint.

[Daxx]

[11:34:53] amilir: after multiple times kdz caused a desync that Nyma might have won

Fan-fucking-tastic. So now KDZ is being accused of cheating.

EDIT: never mind. Here's some more context - some editing for clarity:
[11:32:14] amilir: Daxx, KDZ closed the window three times by my count
[11:33:58] Daxx: amilir: sorry, but we got the win before browser closing.
[11:34:09] Daxx: we do have screenshots.
[11:34:22] amilir: yes
[11:34:48] Daxx: so that's twice we've gotten screwed for being sporting.
[11:34:53] amilir: after multiple times kdz caused a desync that Nyma might have won
[11:35:14] Daxx: oh, so your accusing KDZ of deliberately causing desyncs now?
[11:35:19] Daxx: fan ***ing tastic
[11:35:25] amilir: no
[11:35:27] Daxx: *you're
[11:35:27] amilir: I am not
[11:35:42] Daxx: [11:34:53] amilir: after multiple times kdz caused a desync that Nyma might have won
[11:35:47] Daxx: sounds like it to me
[11:35:51] amilir: but the desync was kdz's fault
[11:36:01] amilir: if not intentional
[11:36:18] Memorystick: yeah, amilir, that does sound like an accusation of cheating
[11:36:27] Memorystick: might want to word it differently
[11:37:14] vrt: amilir; they were playing in the middle of an update. zanzarino was in chat himself, explaining that the servers were unstable at that time. Why on Earth would you accuse KDZ?
[11:37:38] Memorystick: what vrtato said
[11:37:58] amilir: KDZ said himself that he was closing the window by accident
[11:38:18] vrt: Once. AFter Vali kept accusing him of cheating and he got stressed out about it.
[11:38:23] amilir: I'm not saying he cheated
[11:38:28] amilir: ah
[11:38:31] amilir: three times
[11:38:41] amilir: once while still in main chat
[11:38:53] amilir: and twice outside
[11:39:05] Memorystick: and nyma allowed him to keep playing.
[11:39:09] Daxx: we have screens of getting the second win.
[11:39:23] Daxx: after KDZ allowed nyma to keep playing
[11:39:24] amilir: Nyma was going livid on our private chat
[11:39:32] Memorystick: really, I don't think it should be allowed for someone to withdraw a consession :|
[11:39:43] amilir: I really don't know what to say
[11:39:57] amilir: I'd rather have just lost the rematch
[11:40:10] Daxx: If you withdraw your concession, we withdraw ours.
[11:40:14] Memorystick: amilir- so would kdz
[11:40:23] amilir: problem is, you don't need to concede
[11:40:59] Memorystick: but if you do, then you shouldn't be able to retract it
[11:42:03] Memorystick: evans was instructed not to talk about it, so you can't really blame him
[11:42:17] vrt: KDZ even offered to have a sub play, but Nyma and Vali wouldn't have it.. SO I don't see why this is such an issue.
[11:42:23] Daxx: In the grand scheme of things it doesn't make a blind bit of difference. You'll crush us next round whatever.
[11:42:49] amilir: Really? When did kdz offer to sub?
[11:42:56] amilir: We'd have been happy with that
[11:43:00] Daxx: I saw him offer in chat.
[11:43:11] vrt: He offered to sub in main chat. Numbers recorded the log.
[11:43:19] amilir: wow
[11:43:21] Daxx: "anyone with a better internet connection", I believe was the phrase
[11:43:26] amilir: can I see it
[11:43:27] Memorystick: yup
[11:43:33] Theonlyrealbeef: I could remember something similar, he'd allow different players to play if they had same salvage and upgrades
[11:44:02] vrt: Ask numbers, amilir. Or you can take my word for it, though after Vali's constant accusations, I must say I'm biased.

[hrmmm]

(...)
We want to take back our concession like Entropy took back theirs.
(...)

i second this.


and SG we dont need to quit, we just could protest-suicide in this round. totally legal.
but totaly not nice for the whole event... i dont like that.

[wizelsnarf]

Giving others free wins or not demanding a win when you had a right for it, has nothing to do with being a good sport, it's just a really dumb move.

[Daxx]

Also, this bears emphasising since SG appears to be confused about the situation:

We are not appealing Entropy's complaint. We are making one of our own, on its own merits.

and SG we dont need to quit, we just could protest-suicide in this round. totally legal.

It's worth pointing out that there's not a damn thing SG can do about it if we refuse to play. However, I think that decision would need serious consideration.

[Daxx]

I have talked to SG in chat. The upshot of it is that dd makes the final call. I will talk to him when he's next online - there's no need to spam the poor guy with PMs.

[14:48:26] Daxx [»] Scaredgirl: hey, are you online?
[14:48:57] Scaredgirl [»] Daxx: just came back 5 seconds ago
[14:51:11] Daxx [»] Scaredgirl: Aha, good to catch you.
[14:51:29] Daxx [»] Scaredgirl: I was wondering if you had five minutes to talk about this match business.
[14:51:44] Daxx [»] Scaredgirl: If not, I'll talk to you later about it as I'd like to give a full explanation.
[14:56:18] Scaredgirl [»] Daxx: jeesus.. not that match anymore..
[14:56:51] Daxx [»] Scaredgirl: I know it's caused a lot of drama.
[14:56:52] Scaredgirl [»] Daxx: I have received so many PM's about it that I think I have a pretty clear picture of what happened
[14:57:18] Daxx [»] Scaredgirl: I don't know what people have PMed you.
[14:57:50] Scaredgirl [»] Daxx: I have all kinds of screenshots etc.
[14:58:13] Scaredgirl [»] Daxx: god thing is that both sides are saying pretty much the same thing
[14:58:41] Scaredgirl [»] Daxx: so it's not like stories contradict themselves that much
[14:58:55] Daxx [»] Scaredgirl: As I understand it, Team Entropy are claiming that KDZ disconnected.
[14:59:10] Daxx [»] Scaredgirl: And we are claiming that we had won the match before that.
[14:59:34] Daxx [»] Scaredgirl: So we're retracting our concession.
[14:59:46] Scaredgirl [»] Daxx: I didn't take those fake desync allegations into consideration
[14:59:58] Scaredgirl [»] Daxx: I don't think that KDZ would do that
[15:00:10] Scaredgirl [»] Daxx: but he did close those damn windows
[15:00:19] Daxx [»] Scaredgirl: I didn't think you would, but that's not what I'm interested in.
[15:00:33] Daxx [»] Scaredgirl: Ah, but we won the match before he closed the windows. That's what our screenshot is proof of.
[15:01:06] Daxx [»] Scaredgirl: Since we were 1-0 and we have a SS a turn before winning on a desync, I think the match fairly obviously goes to us.
[15:01:56] Daxx [»] Scaredgirl: Or possibly 1-1, I am not 100% clear on the timeline.
[15:02:12] Daxx [»] Scaredgirl: The point is that this came before the second window closure.
[15:03:22] Scaredgirl [»] Daxx: the way I understood it, was that you decided on a rematch, and then later wanted a win
[15:03:38] Daxx [»] Scaredgirl: We didn't decide on the rematch.
[15:03:48] Daxx [»] Scaredgirl: We weren't consulted about it.
[15:04:04] Daxx [»] Scaredgirl: besides which, KDZ didn't know that Gl1tch had the SS at that point
[15:04:05] Scaredgirl [»] Daxx: I mean redoing the duel
[15:04:18] Daxx [»] Scaredgirl: Yes.
[15:04:43] Scaredgirl [»] Daxx: you said "lets redo that duel", then later "we want a win!"
[15:04:54] Scaredgirl [»] Daxx: you cannot do that
[15:04:56] Daxx [»] Scaredgirl: We didn't say "let's redo that duel". You said that.
[15:05:15] Scaredgirl [»] Daxx: ...
[15:05:23] Scaredgirl [»] Daxx: ok, lets try this way
[15:05:32] Daxx [»] Scaredgirl: Oh, the duel not the match
[15:05:37] Daxx [»] Scaredgirl: nm, I misunderstood
[15:05:47] Scaredgirl [»] Daxx: if you guys did get those 2 wins.. then why didn't you win?
[15:05:56] Scaredgirl [»] Daxx: why was the score 1-0?
[15:05:59] Daxx [»] Scaredgirl: okay, in that case: Entropy conceded the match to us. Then they said they wanted to take it back.
[15:06:16] Daxx [»] Scaredgirl: Why are they allowed to take back their concession and we aren't allowed to take back ours?
[15:06:59] Scaredgirl [»] Daxx: conceded that match so that they could stop the silliness and contact Warmasters
[15:07:17] Scaredgirl [»] Daxx: Nyma started doing her PM the second that match was over
[15:07:42] Scaredgirl [»] Daxx: it wasn't like they forfeited and later changed their minds
[15:07:47] Daxx [»] Scaredgirl: They told us we won so that they could complain?
[15:08:02] Daxx [»] Scaredgirl: They did forfeit. They told us "we concede the match, KDZ wins".
[15:08:35] Scaredgirl [»] Daxx: I don't know what they said exactly but that doesn't even matter
[15:08:44] Daxx [»] Scaredgirl: But the point is, we take back our concession of that duel, we have proof that ordinarily would just give the win to us.
[15:09:07] Scaredgirl [»] Daxx: there was a clean rematch
[15:09:23] Scaredgirl [»] Daxx: after that it's impossible to do anything about it
[15:09:23] Daxx [»] Scaredgirl: We won the first match. There was no need for a rematch.
[15:09:43] Daxx [»] Scaredgirl: KDZ only played because you unilaterally decided there would be one and pressured him into it.
[15:09:48] Scaredgirl [»] Daxx: if you guys wanted an appeal or something KDZ shouldn't have fought that match
[15:09:57] Daxx [»] Scaredgirl: And because he thought he didn't have any recourse
[15:10:15] Daxx [»] Scaredgirl: So why are you allowing nyma to take back her concession?
[15:10:31] Scaredgirl [»] Daxx: it sounds to me more like first trying to win, and then starting to complain when losing
[15:10:39] Scaredgirl [»] Daxx: because that's what it was
[15:10:47] Daxx [»] Scaredgirl: Why would we complain when we won?
[15:11:05] Daxx [»] Daxx: There's no point raising complaints about the match after we were told that the other team conceded to us.
[15:11:07] Scaredgirl [»] Daxx: I'd also like to add that Warmaster made the final call
[15:11:18] Scaredgirl [»] Daxx: you should really be talking to him
[15:11:56] Daxx [»] Scaredgirl: But okay, if I can speak to DD to get the final call on this then I will.[/quote]

[Glitch]

Calm down.  The first thing we need is to see that PM they sent scaredgirl.  That PM is their accusation of foul play warranting a rematch, and while completely fair for them to send, it's only fair we get to see it.  And then, and this is just wishful thinking, I'd like a place to talk to entropy about it.  They're probably just as annoyed as we are, and rightfully.  A peaceful arrangement needs to be had.

You guys agreed to this rematch by fighting that rematch, but when you lost, you started to demanding.. I don't know.. a second rematch?.  How is that being a good sport? If you guys don't honor the rematch that happened without any problems, I think that would make you the most unsportsmanship-like team in the history of War. Or are you saying that you would have demanded a rematch even if you had won?

This right here confuses me most. For starters, don't call us the least sportsman team in the history of the war, because rotface exists =P.  But where I get confused, and I'm just looking for answers here, where did we agree to a rematch?  From what I can see, ddevans posted this:

Alright. Here's what I think we're going to do.

1) Match is restarted from 0-0
2) Any two players can substitute the match
3) Both teams will get full salvage

Hopefully this matter can be resolved before the round ends.

After we were defending our win.  But what irks me most is this.

You guys agreed to this rematch by fighting that rematch

So if we don't agree with the results of round 8 being rushed in order to start round 9, what should we do?

[Daxx]

I am currently discussing this with ddevans.

[Glitch]

[16:02:22] amilir [»] Gl1tch: You should probably know Nyma didn't ask for the results to be overturned

This means that of the two people fighting the match, and the one known spectator of both the chat and the match, none of them asked for this rematch.

[killsdazombies]

I asked DD before we started why we had to, nyma had forfeited.

DD told me that that it didnt matter and told me to fight.

[Daxx]

Chatlog. TL;DR summary: He'll get back to us about it, but he's definitely considering our case.

[15:40:58] Daxx: hey ddevans
[15:41:15] Daxx: do you have five minutes? SG said I should talk to you.
[15:41:35] ddevans96z: sure. just let me get a glass of milk first
[15:42:32] ddevans96z: okay back
[15:44:26] Daxx [»] ddevans96z: hey
[15:44:41] ddevans96z [»] Daxx: hi
[15:45:08] Daxx [»] ddevans96z: so Scaredgirl sent me to talk to you to get the final word on this whole sorry / match affair
[15:45:27] Daxx [»] ddevans96z: Do you have five mins to discuss it?
[15:45:38] ddevans96z [»] Daxx: I suppose
[15:46:06] Daxx [»] ddevans96z: okay. Basically, we'd like to withdraw our concession.
[15:46:35] Daxx [»] ddevans96z: we have a screenshot of a match which desynced one turn before we won.
[15:47:04] ddevans96z [»] Daxx: okay. can you show it to me?
[15:47:14] Daxx [»] ddevans96z: sure.
[15:47:16] Daxx [»] ddevans96z: one second.
[15:47:52] Daxx [»] ddevans96z: http://i.imgur.com/Fwk6o.png
[15:48:16] Daxx [»] ddevans96z: The situation was: we were at 1-0 or 1-1 (I'm not entirely sure which, but the important part is that we had won a match)
[15:49:01] Daxx [»] ddevans96z: for reference KDZ did not know that Gl1tch had the screenshot
[15:49:15] ddevans96z [»] Daxx: if you count the first game where kdz clicked off the screen as a win for entropy, it would have been 1-1
[15:49:30] Daxx [»] ddevans96z: Sure. So that should be 2-1 life, based on that screenshot.
[15:49:41] Daxx [»] ddevans96z: We'd like to claim the win.
[15:49:57] ddevans96z [»] Daxx: hm....
[15:50:30] Daxx [»] ddevans96z: The reason we didn't raise this earlier was because nyma conceded the match to us, so we believed we had won.
[15:51:59] Daxx [»] ddevans96z: PS. I hope you don't mind, but I'll copy over this chat to the Life thread once we're done. Is that okay?
[15:52:13] Daxx [»] ddevans96z: Just so everyone on our team knows what's going on.
[15:52:48] ddevans96z [»] Daxx: if I gave you the win I would have re-reandomize the matches which is something I don't want to do
[15:53:51] Daxx [»] ddevans96z: I appreciate that.
[15:54:13] Daxx [»] ddevans96z: However I think in the interests of fairness we should get the win. I'm sorry that it creates extra work for you, I really am.
[15:54:19] Daxx [»] ddevans96z: If I could help you out I would.
[15:54:42] ddevans96z [»] Daxx: did kills have any knowledge of the screenshot Gl1tch took?
[15:54:59] Daxx [»] ddevans96z: he didn't untli after Gl1tch posted it.
[15:55:17] Daxx [»] ddevans96z: you can double check the thread for timings and such if you like
[15:57:21] ddevans96z [»] Daxx: you definitely should get to see the PM
[15:57:57] Daxx [»] ddevans96z: Thank you. I appreciate that.
[15:58:19] Daxx [»] ddevans96z: That's a side issue, really.
[15:58:33] Daxx [»] ddevans96z: But thank you all the same.
[15:59:13] ddevans96z [»] Daxx: if there could be one thread where the two teams could discuss the matter.
[16:00:24] Daxx [»] ddevans96z: I don't think the teams are going to come to an amicable solution on this one.
[16:00:41] Daxx [»] ddevans96z: I've discussed this with Amilir already and he's determined that Entropy should win.
[16:00:54] Daxx [»] ddevans96z: Also KDZ has banned us from talking to Sir V about War matters.
[16:02:00] ddevans96z [»] Daxx: hm.
[16:02:34] Daxx [»] ddevans96z: SG said that I should talk to you for the final decision.
[16:03:35] Daxx [»] ddevans96z: I think we have a good case. It seems like you agree but you don't want to cause drama and extra work. Is that the case?
[16:04:20] ddevans96z [»] Daxx: I was hoping allowing a rematch would solve the problem
[16:04:56] Daxx [»] ddevans96z: I guess the real problem with the rematch was that KDZ was pressured into it without knowing he had an alternative.
[16:05:06] ddevans96z [»] Daxx: and I'm fine with extra work. It's drama I want to avoid.
[16:05:39] Daxx [»] ddevans96z: Drama is no fun to deal with.
[16:06:46] Daxx [»] ddevans96z: You know that once you make a final decision SG will enforce it fully.
[16:07:29] Daxx [»] ddevans96z: She's as sick as this as we all are, and she has the banhammer :S
[16:10:33] ddevans96z [»] Daxx: even if we don't reverse the results, I know what to avoid in the future.
[16:10:50] Daxx [»] ddevans96z: That's helpful.
[16:11:58] Daxx [»] ddevans96z: Can't get around the fact that it'd still be unfair for the purposes of this War.
[16:13:55] Daxx [»] ddevans96z: Well, I'm not going to rush you into a decision. But you do need to make one before the start of the match phase.
[16:15:29] ddevans96z [»] Daxx: I'll think about it. there's a lot of stuff tto look over
[16:15:47] Daxx [»] ddevans96z: Okay. Thank you for considering it.