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Offline SpielkindTopic starter

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« on: October 25, 2017, 01:36:55 pm »
Spoiler for VaultBuilding:
Vault Building:



Sort of vault idea: To choose what deck to bring against an opponent we counter each deck that opponent has used against us in the past few wars (How many exactly? I guess wars 8,9, and 10 will be fine unless you all think it should go further back.) and have the counters fight all of the compiled opponents decks to see which counter does the best overall. If a deck has been used against us more than once life decks that beat it get more points. We could make a few counter decks for each enemy deck. If this was confusing ask questions about it. I'll say more about this in the counter deck ideas section.

I've PM'ed you all my list of decks used by other elements.
That sounds good, guess war 8 is good to start, cause its the last war without shards, so war 9 and 10 is the way to go, but not to forget some strength before that! Ok wars 8 9 and 10 it is. We could go further back but that may be too much work to do before vault deadline and more relevant decks are better.

Spoiler for Counter deck Ideas Aether and all:
Counter deck Ideas:

Countering as described in vault building:

I guess we'll do it one element at a time.

Aether

Deck costs can be put in after we find the "optimal" decks.

Deck1 http://dek.im/d/z15liz55lmz561qz561tz161uz863az57q9z381q8pq
counter Life Voidstall http://dek.im/d/z45bsz55c2z25c3z55cq5usz15viz27ac7alz37u28pt (tested) This decks has way more defense than it needs but I'm keeping it in hopes of it fairing better against other aether decks. Bigger stalls would also work great but this doesn't have to worry about having more cards. 54 pillars 6 heals would work too lol.

Deck2 http://dek.im/d/z55viz361oz161qz461tz17laz57q9z17tbz180880dz181q8pt
counter Life Steal Voidstall http://dek.im/d/z25bsz55c2z25c3z55dez55up5usz15viz27ac7alz37u28pt (tested),

Deck3 http://dek.im/d/z35lkz361oz161uz3622z363az57jpz1808z180lz181q8pu
counter Jade Life Voidstall http://dek.im/d/z65bsz55c25c5z55cq5usz15vi7acz27akz37u28pt (untested), Life Mercenary Stallbow http://dek.im/d/zE4saz34vpz55bsz15btz15c9z55cqz35onz461qz1621z27ak7al8pn (untested), Thundergon http://dek.im/d/z55bsz45bt5c5z35de5ogz45ohz57aez17n18pr (untested),

Deck4 http://dek.im/d/55kz155s576z3622z963a744z2745z4747z281q8pl
counter SoSaSoD Life Stall  http://dek.im/d/z352gz453ez2542z25c2zC5dez45m6z17adz27akz37k28pq (not solid),
Discorush http://dek.im/d/z14vez54vjz24vlz15c0z65dez16u1z57aez17dm8pj (not solid),
Discorush +1 discord http://dek.im/d/z14vez54vjz24vlz15c0z65dez16u16u5z57ae7dm8pj (tested), that extra discord made a significant different in win rate. Adrenarush http://dek.im/d/z15bsz55buz55c0z55c7z15de6rkz37acz27bu8pn (tested), I think deck should be done now that it has 2 solid counters

Deck5 http://dek.im/d/z761oz561qz3622z663az580gz180l8pu
counter Thundergon http://dek.im/d/z55bsz55bt5c5z25c95ogz45ohz37acz37bu8pr (untested),

Deck6 http://dek.im/d/4su5laz35lk5lsz461o61uz4622z563az57jp8pu
counter Thundergon http://dek.im/d/z95bsz45btz25de5ogz25ohz57aez17n18prhttp://dek.im/d/z95bsz45btz25de5ogz25ohz57aez17n18pr (tested),

Deck7 http://dek.im/d/z24suz261oz561tz261uz1622z663a808z480g8pu
counter Life Mercenary Stallbow http://dek.im/d/zE4saz34vpz55bsz15btz15c9z55cqz35onz461qz1621z27aj7al8pn  (not solid)

Deck8 http://dek.im/d/z661oz461tz161uz2622z663az280gz280l8pu
counter Life Mercenary Stallbow http://dek.im/d/zE4saz34vpz55bsz15btz15c9z55cqz35onz461qz1621z27ak7al8pn (not solid)
OE SoG Stall Tinkerer http://dek.im/d/z55cqz65ocz25oiz15olz45onz85puz17adz27akz27n58pn (tested).

Now here's where I can really use some help with the time restraint and all.
Some really helpful things you could do are

A: Submit counter deck ideas to decks which don't have decks marked as tested attached to them unless you think your deck idea might do better agianst all of aethers decks than the other deck(s) marked as tested. (mark them untested unless you're certain it will be a great counter in which case mark them tested)(I advise checking any other decks just to make sure you're not submitting something that's already in that deck's system.)

B: Test an untested deck against what it's supposed to counter. If you have to, try and mod it so it works if you think it might could work. If it is definitely a solid counter change it's mark to tested. If it's not a solid counter change it's mark to not solid.

So if you like trying to counter decks or if testing's your thing there's something for everyone. I'll do both or whatever depending on which is needed more at the time.

If this was confusing you can ask me whatever questions you want. I'll explain and fix things  if needed as we go along.

Now unless someone has a better idea I really want help with this.

Note: The counter decks, as long as they are solid counter decks, don't need to be perfect because this is just vault building and the vault should have some extra cards to perfect the decks in deck building and quantum balance can be changed pretty freely.

Note: When testing decks if you aren't testing with a human remember to play as both sides (life deck and what it's supposed to counter) to account for ai missplaying decks.

Spoiler for Deck Ideas Stalls:
Deck Ideas Stalls:

* Tinkerer Firestall ($ 2265)
http://dek.im/d/z55cqz55f0z55f4z15f6z25f7z25fbz75giz17akz37f28pn
 Firestall is a good deck in any vault, I Know in one age with a lot of fractal and sop decks is dangerous to use it, but works against a lot of good decks like rush and grabow
Life firestalls can also be made for non tinkerers as well. Firestorms could be added in place of rage potions for fractal decks.

* Oe SoG Stall ($ 1905) Tinkerer
http://dek.im/d/z25c3z55cqz65ocz25oi5olz45onz85puz17adz37n58pn
More one good stall this one is bit more cheaper

* SosaSod LifeStall ($ 2060)
http://dek.im/d/z352gz453ez2542z25c2zC5dez45m6z17adz27akz37k28pq
Would a SoSac heal poison stall like seen in war ten counter what this deck counters? If so then miracles could be taken out of vault.

I like of Life Stall like this,, is a mercenary deck
http://dek.im/d/zE4saz34vpz55bsz15btz15c9z55cqz35onz461qz1621z27ak7al8pn I'm sceptical of this being as good as the fire/air stalls.
LOVE IT! When I was testing stuff against this it seemed obsolete compared to the air and fire stalls.

Spoiler for Deck Ideas Rushes:
Deck Ideas Rushes:

* Lifedisc Rush ($ 2,620)
 This deck is a rush, but with discord and a rush with discord is 2x more rush
does in 7 turns,   looks very good!!!
http://dek.im/d/z14vez54vjz24vlz15c0z65dez16u1z57aez17dm8pj

* Life Death Thing
http://dek.im/d/z552o52qz352rz252tz95dez57ae8pk

* Adrena Catatitan ($ 1260) Mercenary
http://dek.im/d/z355kz455sz2561z1576z85dez27anz37n28pl

Life Strike ($ 1460)
http://dek.im/d/zB5bsz55c0z15cgz25f6z57ae7al8po

Mono Life Adrenaline Rush ($ 1450)
 http://dek.im/d/z15bsz55buz55c0z55c7z15de6rkz37acz27bu8pn
TTW against defenceless deck:6.26

Mono Life Rush ($ 1210)
 http://dek.im/d/z55bsz35btz55c0z55de6rk7acz57ae8pn
 TTW against defenceless deck:6.45

both rushes good, guess depends on what is coming in and what we have left. good work!

Note: I use the simulator to calculate TTWs so actual TTW should be slightly lower.


Spoiler for Deck Ideas Other decks:
Deck Ideas Other decks:

* Decks marked with this means they contain cards that are as of now only useful in that deck. Decks in the graveyard will not be marked either way.


Nymph Adrenastaves ($ 1330)
http://dek.im/d/z45bsz55c5z35cg5ogz55oiz77ac8pr
whoopwhoop, 4 nymphs in da house :) good thing! Yeah I checked peoples nymph when I posted this. Everyone except Manual (he has 2) has enough nymphs for this.

Adrenastaves ($ 1570)
http://dek.im/d/z25bsz55c5z55c75ogz55oiz77ac8pr
to me fog is unnecessary in adrenastaves because we have a lot of hp recovery ok, pillar to replace it I assume? Maybe mitosis on the nymphs one. autoinclude, we need 2 i guess. mitosis in the other is too much, it works fine as it is?

Modded Nymph Adrenastaves ($ 1290)
http://dek.im/d/z35bsz55c5z15c9z35cgz55oiz77ac8pr

* Dimensional Dragontal ($ 1770)
http://dek.im/d/z75bsz25btz15dez561tz2622z37acz37bu8pu

I tried to remember how Spielkind made this deck. http://dek.im/d/z25c7zC5dez25ibz25j2z57aez17gr8pp

Forest Island ($ 2310)
http://dek.im/d/z258oz4596z45c1z25dez25icz25j2z377ez37bu8pp
 Have good control because iridium show faster the most time... trident to do opponent slow and is stall breaker deck, but dont have PC

Frogtal
No deck for this yet but it could be built multiple ways.
http://dek.im/d/zD5dez57aez17buz380i8pu LT Frogtal, empty slots= thunderbolt/silence/something,

FrogRush with PC
last war i see a lot of these, with steal + vagger or explosions for fast pc or against sundials
Frogbow (mercenay)
http://dek.im/d/z34saz14vhz54vjz15c0z15c1z25f6z25onz57aez17al8pn
Based in the Antabow deck
http://dek.im/d/z34saz14vhz54vjz15c0z15c1z15f6z15ogz15onz57aez17al8pn
This deck is pratically the Antabow same speed including, we can do some changes as well
-2 lycanthrope +2 discord should work as a possible change and change the jade staffs for an elite cockatrice and an emerald tower or something else.

You saw lots of these last war and life did terrible last war. :P Though in seriousness it seems like a good idea for dims and such which are used a lot against poor PC-less life. Maybe a SoFo deck could be made.
steal or deflag are 120 instead of 180, and they should be even easier to salvage; last war team life had is general afk the entire time and other internal problems

Spoiler for Deck Graveyard:
Deck Graveyard:

Here is where I'll be putting decks that I deem not good enough and decks that we cannot currently build. If you see a deck in here you think is good enough explain under it why it is good enough.


Thundergon
http://dek.im/d/z95bsz45btz25de5ogz25ohz57aez17n18prhttp://dek.im/d/z95bsz45btz25de5ogz25ohz57aez17n18pr

* Adrenadamseltosissofree general ($ 3,755)
http://dek.im/d/z24sn5bsz45c7z25c9z15oe5paz17acz17buz57mtz47nq8pn
expensive but good

* Life Voidstall ($ 1355)
http://dek.im/d/z45bsz55c2z25c3z55cqz15viz27ac7alz37u28pt
How good is this deck? SoV/drain life isn't being used elsewhere (maybe drain life if the life darkness dev deck becomes a thing) and the steals could be trimmed.

* Life Dark Dev Tinkerer
http://dek.im/d/z15c0z15ukz55umz15upz35uvz5606z57ae7tb7um8pn

RoLtosis (lieutenant/extra upgrades boost)
http://dek.im/d/z75bsz55c9z35j2z35lk7ac7alz57jp8pp
Does the SoP Wardens deck make this one obsolete?

Steeltosis or Mitosteel whichever sounds cooler. ($ 960)
http://dek.im/d/z258oz159cz15aaz15c2z35c9z85dez377a7alz27bu8pm
I bet this could really use tweeking. Shockingly cheap. What is the power here? the hp? dont like it : Other people's thoughts on this? If it's not a good deck type tell me and cards can be trimmed from the vault.

On the topic of discorushes here's one I made for trials modded for less upgrades and I took out a couple life marks. I don't know about 4 discords but it's the only entropy card and building for trials is different than war.
http://dek.im/d/z14vlz75bsz55c0z55dez16u5z57ae8pj cost by me calculating 1,460
TTW in simulator vs. defenceless deck: 7.191
TTW of the deck you made in simulator vs. defenceless deck: 7.1875
So basically the same except yours has explosions. (Mine has an extra discord but yours could be modded to have 4 if we think getting an early discord is really important)
Not in graveyard decks in deck thread for if we no longer have novas.

FR Graboid ($ 3080)
http://dek.im/d/z54vjz155qz5590z25bs5c7z35dez37ae7alz17an7dm8pm
 Very expensive does in 6 or 7 turns most time, but pherhaps is better one life rush with 3 deflags like below thats is very more cheaper!!
With life's efficient creatures I don't think graboids are good enough for their cost to make in the vault.

Spoiler for Round 1 Discussion:
Round 1

Event card
How should be go about this?

Elements we're facing: Light, Entropy, Death(gen), and Fire(gen).


Death:
Bans none +2 upgrades
SoSaSoD life stall is the first thing that came to my mind.

Strategy thoughts, Dince there's no bans choosing a deck based on match up spread should be the way to go.
As they are facing 2 gens i think dani will monorush me, cause death is fast with recluse, but weak vs cc... but if poison it will be a fast death for me... pury would be great with a squid... ähmm... why i see no squids in vault? o_O The vault's cost had to be cut somehow and squids are expensive and the deck they were in works with tridents instead.

if sosasod it should have 45 cards, cause they played a lightpoison stall with 44... could be soo horrible. and with the dragons, i guess we can fit something better, cause the dragon would be good against wings, but when they play wings, they play shock and OE so dragon cost much and with sosa we will be not sure for getting so much life.

the firestall could be good, i guess we will see death domin, wings or dims. wings 60% cause they cant use it vs earth and darkness has steals, light no real none flying damage.

adrenastaffs could be good too, cause better vs bones and wings, heals everything.

Decks available to us.

Frog Squid SoP, would be great, but no squids in vault?
Frogbow,
Frogtal,
Forest Island, no gems Replace with pillars (though this is obsolete now)
Dim Dragontal,
Adrenastaves,
Mono Life rush/adrenarush,
Adrenacatatitans,
Life Death thing,
Mercenary stall,
SosaSod LifeStall 45 without dragon?
Oe SoG Stall,
Tinkerer Firestall,
Discorush,
Life Strike,

Decks death used agianst us last 3 wars:

Dim Pugons
Recluse Wings 3x
Death Light poison/deckout Stall 2x
Unstoppable Deathstalkers
NT Death 2x
Death Gravity (since name is vague here's this http://dek.im/cache/z452gz252lz152qz252uz2534z3542z355qz272iz274b8pl.png
Grey Nymph EE Wings


Entropy:
Bans Deflagration Owl's Eye

Strategy thoughts, Is entropy trying to stop of from using a fire/air stall? The deflag ban is suspicious IMO. Reminds me of some stuff that went on last trials.

i guess they bans for fire and air, cause we look no match. not sure they fear us with defalg and OE... they cant go grabbow vs fire and darkness cause of bans, so they could go vs air or us, imo vs us the better option, cause air has wings.
probably liferush cause cheap vs disco and fast for grabby, frogtal could bork in disco
dragontal could be an option, but expensive and could face a bonium or other stall
perhaps the mercstall could be good here, cause of rainbow vs disco



Decks available to us.

Frog Squid SoP,
Frogbow without deflags,
Frogtal,
Forest Island,
Dim Dragontal,
Adrenastaves,
Mono Life rush/adrenarush,
Adrenacatatitans,
Life Death thing,
Mercenary stall,
SosaSod LifeStall,
Tinkerer Firestall without deflags,
Discorush without deflags,

Decks entropy used against us last 3 wars:

Discograbbow 2x
Entropy Firestall
Mono Entropy Stall
Entropy Gravity Control
Pandebonium
PUgons 2x
Entropy Water Stall
Entropy Wings


Light:
Bans none +2 upgrades

Strategy thoughts, Dince there's no bans choosing a deck based on match up spread should be the way to go.

cause the bans i guess they will firestall death with bones. probably we will see a stall too, but could be joey put in a darknessbased stealdeck vs us... something like vadersader... hmm no dump thought... perhaps air duo... cause cheap froggy... hmm or dims... im totally not sure :D but guess a stallbreak we need, or bigger stall.... but honestly... i could bet joey goes dark on light this war... :)

Decks available to us.
Frog Squid SoP,
Frogbow,
Frogtal,
Forest Island,
Dim Dragontal,
Adrenastaves,
Mono Life rush/adrenarush,
Adrenacatatitans,
Life Death thing,
Mercenary stall,
SosaSod LifeStall,
Oe SoG Stall,
Tinkerer Firestall,
Discorush,
Life Strike,

Decks light used against us last 3 wars:

Chrysaora Stall
Firestall
Dim Dragontal
SoFree Wings Blessing Peggy
Light RT Splash
Dim PUgons 2x
Crusader Catatitans


Fire:
Bans Shard of Patience Nova

Strategy thoughts, with that SoP ban fire might be planning on taking a stall against us.

with water (Fractal, Fire Bolt), time (Blue Nymph Dimensional Shield) and entropy (Deflagration, Owl's Eye) they face 3 good teams with bans, so they are open to fire everything they cant use there on us.
guess they firestall time, dim on entropy and probably immorush or dragontal water...
so we will get fractix i bet. we should use decks they hate from the other 3 teams to handle them, like frogtal being faster, OE stall with thunder would be great here, dont know how without thunder...
disco could be good too

Decks available to us:

Frogtal,
Forest Island without SoP (still has spirits),
Dim Dragontal,
Adrenastaves,
Mono Life rush/adrenarush,
Adrenacatatitans,
Life Death thing,
Mercenary stall,
SosaSod LifeStall,
Oe SoG Stall,
Tinkerer Firestall,
Life Strike,
Discorush (would have to be built something like this http://dek.im/d/z14vlz75bsz55c0z55dez16u5z57ae8pj or an entropy based one like this http://dek.im/d/z14vezC50uz45c0z26u5z57ae7ag8pn average TTW vs. defenseless deck 7.011),

Decks fire used against us last 3 wars:

Earth Firestall
Fire Void Dials
Fire Poisonstall
Dim Fractix
Immorush Domin
Mono Fire rush with firestorm and fire shield
Light Firestall
Discoimmorush
Crimson dragon RP
Fire with steam machines
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