Post by: jmdt on August 02, 2010, 07:12:02 am
This deck is by far the best method for gaining score in the game the best deck to efficiently grind AI3 with.
Standard version:
Bootsza's USEMosis version (if you like this version, send karma to bootsza)
Post by: Kuross on August 02, 2010, 07:59:41 am
Here is what I found in my own testing with that version:
(in a 50 game run)
6.76 TTW
+1775 Electrum
+1390 Score
28 EMs (56%)
69 minutes to complete w/ spins. (so 50 wins within an hour is very possible if you don't spin)
I notice that a vast majority of my EMs only needed one Heal to make it happen since my Jade Staff kept me in the 80's HP range a lot of the time plus Jade Staff helps widdle down the AI. I like the idea of using the Long Sword, but you can only ever have one out at a time where I have had all my Epinephrine's out at once, but I can see how the Long Sword works well in the above version.
I do know this about my version though. I played it this last week non-stop and only lost twice out a 1000 games. Both losses were a result of an epic fail opening hand versus a epic opening hand for the AI followed by my horrible draws and the AI getting great continuing draws. I gotta figure that a deck with a loss rate .02% isn't all that bad either ;)
Post by: Mantriel on August 11, 2010, 01:52:49 am
I don't understand, why would anyone farm AI3 if you have so much cash to Upgrade a Mono rush deck?
On:
About the deck, it's a "basic" use 6 of all cards deck, what where your results with adrenaline and unUpped frogs?
Post by: jmdt on August 11, 2010, 02:06:26 am
Off:You farm AI3 with this deck to gain score. AI3 is already the best for score gain and by having the high EM potential with high speed makes this much greater. You can seriously gain 4-5K score in a sitting with this deck if you want to.
I don't understand, why would anyone farm AI3 if you have so much cash to Upgrade a Mono rush deck?
On:
About the deck, it's a "basic" use 6 of all cards deck, what where your results with adrenaline and unUpped frogs?
I do not use adrenaline as it makes for a less stable deck. infection and fire shield destroy a card with adrenaline and against CC you lose 2 cards when an adrenalined card is killed. Upped frog is always better than unupped frog, even with adrenaline.
Post by: Mantriel on August 11, 2010, 02:18:59 am
Post by: MYF on August 11, 2010, 03:41:15 am
Post by: jmdt on August 12, 2010, 08:17:34 am
Ever since I faced a couple of these in T50, I decided to make one and give it a go. Its real fast for AI3, and allows EM a lot of the time. Though sometimes there's an early Oty that gives you a run for the money, Dusk can also be really annoying. I even played it on T50 just for kicks :PThat was probably me you faced in the T50 with this deck. I have it up a lot unless I'm testing a deck or have up a biting farm. Yeah, I was surprised how fast this deck came out when I did my testing.
I won't claim this is the best deck out there for t50, but it would interesting to see the win and EM rate versus t50.
Post by: jmizzle7 on August 12, 2010, 09:24:36 am
Post by: MYF on August 12, 2010, 11:51:18 am
Yeah, it was mainly your deck, one belonging to trdgh (?) and clathius (?), and at least one more. It boiled down to either getting more damage out than the life-rush deck and/or drawing wings. Its a very focused deck that does exactly what it should- spew out creatures ramping up the damage every turn, and provide bursts of healing to out last the opposition. Without drawing the right permanents, a rainbow rush deck can get into hurt town really fast and get kicked into deadville the next turn.Ever since I faced a couple of these in T50, I decided to make one and give it a go. Its real fast for AI3, and allows EM a lot of the time. Though sometimes there's an early Oty that gives you a run for the money, Dusk can also be really annoying. I even played it on T50 just for kicks :PThat was probably me you faced in the T50 with this deck. I have it up a lot unless I'm testing a deck or have up a biting farm. Yeah, I was surprised how fast this deck came out when I did my testing.
I won't claim this is the best deck out there for t50, but it would interesting to see the win and EM rate versus t50.
Post by: jmdt on August 12, 2010, 03:54:21 pm
It isn't that great. With all the Fire and Rainbow decks, there are lots of ways you can lose. It also loses to mono Darkness, of which there are a few roaming about.Although I've had some success versus t50, using this deck against t50 is probably a bad idea. It has a max damage potential of 66 so if things go wrong, which they will eventually, it doesn't have the muscle to pull out versus some decks. There are better upped life rushes to use versus t50. I've learned in friendly PvP, that against faster decks, this deck usually can't keep up even with the heals. This deck was designed for AI3; as a grinder it is brilliant, for everything else I have better decks for the job.
Post by: thekillergame on August 12, 2010, 04:17:09 pm
Post by: jmdt on August 12, 2010, 04:34:18 pm
why don't you use jade staffs instead of long swords?? they give 5 healing and 4 damage for 1 :life higher.The longswords allow for a 4 turn kill which makes the deck faster. The 6 heals are plenty to keep the hp up and get an EM.
Post by: jmdt on August 16, 2010, 02:41:10 am
in the late game i have too much quanta, what should i add to change that??Nothing.
The deck was designed to be quanta heavy so A.) you can dump you hand as fast as possible to win as quickly as possible and B.) you will have quanta to use heals for an EM.
As I have said before, this deck was designed as the ultimate AI3 grinder and works great for this purpose. As a deck for other ventures, it is a bit lean on damage/options with its QI of 4.0.
Post by: 7_Deadly_Sins on August 21, 2010, 03:10:04 am
Code: [Select]
5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5c2 5c2 5c2 5c2 5c2 5c2 5c7 5c7 5c7 5c7 5c7 5c7 5c8 5c8 5c8 5c8 5c8 5c8Deck would be a lot faster upgrades but no money to upgrade it yet.The question marks are Forest Scorpions.
Post by: jmdt on August 21, 2010, 03:41:15 am
I'm not sure if this deck is faster but it does give EM's.It would be pretty fast with adrenascorpions, but very unstable with only 6 critters with 2 max attack. When I get 9K spare electrum, I need to get a few upped scorpions to experiment with.Code: [Select]5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5c2 5c2 5c2 5c2 5c2 5c2 5c7 5c7 5c7 5c7 5c7 5c7 5c8 5c8 5c8 5c8 5c8 5c8Deck would be a lot faster upgrades but no money to upgrade it yet.
The question marks are Forest Scorpions.
Post by: 7_Deadly_Sins on August 21, 2010, 04:04:49 am
Edit: I tried Fractal Scorpions but never was able to get everything right in the deck.
Post by: jmdt on August 24, 2010, 04:51:28 pm
Post by: TheonlyrealBeef on August 24, 2010, 09:13:41 pm
You gain as much score as you do electrum if you don't spin.
Edit: with EM you seem to score 35 and gain 40 electrum on AI3, so that's not the same.
Love to try this for faster score, EM makes a big difference and Shrieker Rush (my most used rush deck) doesn't EM unless your opponent is in terrible luck :P
Post by: jmdt on August 24, 2010, 09:45:00 pm
About the pure coincidence thing of score and electrum, without spins these are one and the same unless I'm mistaken (which I doubt ;) )This deck will gain score much faster than a shrieker rush. You should get about the same or a little more electrum.
You gain as much score as you do electrum if you don't spin.
Love to try this for faster score, EM makes a big difference and Shrieker Rush (my most used rush deck) doesn't EM unless your opponent is in terrible luck :P
Post by: omegareaper7 on August 26, 2010, 06:50:22 am
Post by: TheonlyrealBeef on August 26, 2010, 09:55:25 am
So i built this deck, not fully upped though, i liked it worked well despite not to many masteries but thats probably just me. there was one match up where i got the most horrible luck i think this deck can get, no pillars at all in the start, never drew one :'( was pretty annoyed when, i don't know, lets say about 8 turns in and no pillars.I personaly find upped can make a big difference for this deck, Frogs and sword gain much more damage and towers instead of pillars fasten up the deck almost an entire turn. So don't give up on the deck too fast if it doesn't EM often unupped.
And not starting with a single pillar is possible with this deck (actually with any deck that has at least 7 cards that aren't pillars), though extremely unlikely, with the mulligan and all.
I'd say there's less than 1% chance of not getting a pillar in the starting hand with this deck.
Post by: sSethia on August 26, 2010, 03:25:35 pm
Based on how many games I've played with this deck, I'd say less than that.So i built this deck, not fully upped though, i liked it worked well despite not to many masteries but thats probably just me. there was one match up where i got the most horrible luck i think this deck can get, no pillars at all in the start, never drew one :'( was pretty annoyed when, i don't know, lets say about 8 turns in and no pillars.I'd say there's less than 1% chance of not getting a pillar in the starting hand with this deck.
Post by: Nume on August 26, 2010, 03:29:15 pm
Post by: jmdt on August 26, 2010, 04:59:50 pm
Post by: Kuross on August 26, 2010, 05:45:31 pm
Post by: jmdt on August 26, 2010, 05:48:40 pm
Sidenote- I run Life Pendulums, upgraded, in my version and it makes a big difference when dealing with earthqukes vs L3. Upside is you don't notice any change in speed or efficiency either. ;)Yeah I mentioned that back several posts. I use the pendalums too, I haven't updated the OP yet because I don't like the ???.
Post by: BurnOne on August 26, 2010, 06:02:17 pm
+Karma for an update of my AI3-farmer
Post by: Kuross on August 26, 2010, 06:25:37 pm
Yeah, I noticed ya said it and when I finally got around to ponying up the electrum I added them. I just figured I'd mention it here that they do help a lot against the :earth Elder ;)Sidenote- I run Life Pendulums, upgraded, in my version and it makes a big difference when dealing with earthqukes vs L3. Upside is you don't notice any change in speed or efficiency either. ;)Yeah I mentioned that back several posts. I use the pendalums too, I haven't updated the OP yet because I don't like the ???.
Post by: murtle on August 26, 2010, 06:29:29 pm
Post by: Kuross on August 26, 2010, 06:32:41 pm
Post by: jmdt on August 26, 2010, 07:16:01 pm
Jmdt can correct me on this, but I don't think this deck is a good, viable option for T50. It has no way to deal with permanents or ways to get past troublesome shields. One Phase shield can wreck this deck. Doesn't mean jmdt won't have some stats though :PExactly. While this is a great deck overall, there are better options for T50. If you want to use a life rush in T50 replace the Improved Heals with Ephinephrines, otherwise you should look at a different deck.
Post by: 10 men on September 01, 2010, 01:38:26 pm
Post by: TheonlyrealBeef on September 01, 2010, 04:22:10 pm
Post by: zse on September 02, 2010, 07:09:35 am
Post by: Kuross on September 02, 2010, 04:28:02 pm
-2 Long Sword
-2 Heal
+2 Epinephirine
+2 Jade Staff
I figure then I can replace 2 of the heals with 2 Jades since most of the time I only ever really need one heal for EM and the Jades still keep my healing options in the deck at 6. Jades, if out early enough, can give as much health in 4 turns as a heal, and for those pesky, long games the staff can keep you going making it's cost cheaper than casting 2 or more heals for the same amount of health. Since I have the Jades, I can then add in the Epi's for a little more damage and get around the slowing CCs like Ice Shields. Yes, there is a lot of annoying CC that can mess with Epi'ed frogs/trices, but there are tims when it really helps to. Hence the reason for only2.
All in all, my version might be just slightly slower than jmdt's, but it still gets a good TTW. Since I figured it out before I ever saw this thread I take a little pride in my deck and I have a hard time swallowing that pride. :P
Post by: jmdt on September 03, 2010, 11:05:17 pm
I know jmdt and I go rounds on this, but I run this version of EM LR:You'll have to pry the longswords out of my cold dead hands... :P
-2 Long Sword
-2 Heal
+2 Epinephirine
+2 Jade Staff
I figure then I can replace 2 of the heals with 2 Jades since most of the time I only ever really need one heal for EM and the Jades still keep my healing options in the deck at 6. Jades, if out early enough, can give as much health in 4 turns as a heal, and for those pesky, long games the staff can keep you going making it's cost cheaper than casting 2 or more heals for the same amount of health. Since I have the Jades, I can then add in the Epi's for a little more damage and get around the slowing CCs like Ice Shields. Yes, there is a lot of annoying CC that can mess with Epi'ed frogs/trices, but there are tims when it really helps to. Hence the reason for only2.
All in all, my version might be just slightly slower than jmdt's, but it still gets a good TTW. Since I figured it out before I ever saw this thread I take a little pride in my deck and I have a hard time swallowing that pride. :P
Post by: Kurohami on September 05, 2010, 02:06:48 am
Post by: jmdt on September 05, 2010, 02:13:29 am
I wonder if it won't be a good idea to 2 or 3 of the heals with Epi, cause Kuross is right, most of the time, you only need 1 or 2 heal to EM.I've tested it both ways. 6 heals gives you the best EM rate. Also, although epis will give you more speed, the heals make the deck more stable overall and its very difficult to lose when you have 120 extra hp. Even during bad draws, or where the AI overpowers you, the heals can pull in win wher therer otherwise would not be one.
If you prefer 2-3 epi's, its an easy switch and the deck will still work quite well.
Post by: 7wavemaster on September 05, 2010, 04:15:24 am
Post by: jmdt on September 05, 2010, 04:40:17 am
how well would this work unupped?I honestly haven't tested it unupped. I'll take some stats tomorrow and let you know.
Post by: Sewdri on September 06, 2010, 12:59:33 am
the deck would end up being like this:
4 Druidic Staffs (un-upped)
10 Emerald Tower
4 Giant Frog
4 Elite Cockatrice
4 Epinephrine
4 Animate Weapon (upped)
(you want un-upped staffs because upped staffs don't heal as much)
Post by: jmdt on September 06, 2010, 01:08:21 am
I got an idea, how about 4 un-upped druidic staffs with 4 upped animate weapon and 4 epinephrine, on one turn these would do the same as a heal plus it keeps working every turn so that you will almost always get a EM. This also does 2 more damage per turn then a long sword so you can get rid of those and i find that you don't need all of your toads and cockatrices to win quickly.I tried that before. Its very fun and sometimes it works great, but elders with reverse time or infection will destroy those staves quickly and ruin the EM chance. Packing heals is much more relaible IMO.
the deck would end up being like this:
4 Druidic Staffs (un-upped)
10 Emerald Tower
4 Giant Frog
4 Elite Cockatrice
4 Epinephrine
4 Animate Weapon (upped)
(you want un-upped staffs because upped staffs don't heal as much)
Post by: Kurohami on September 06, 2010, 03:54:50 am
Post by: willng3 on September 07, 2010, 01:26:01 am
how well would this work unupped?I've tried this deck unupped before and it certainly did not fare as well as its upped version. The quantum gain from towers versus pillars as well as a lack of the same strength from your creatures makes it much more difficult to rush your opponent with an unupped version. I also found that my loss rate was significantly greater than that of upped Speed EM (although this could have been just poor luck though I seriously doubt it).
Fantastic deck overall, though I too find the substitution of 5 emerald towers to life pendulums to be much more enjoyable when faced with an AI that decides to throw out the unexpected earthquake.
Post by: ratchetspyro94 on September 07, 2010, 01:44:41 am
Yay me. ;D 8) ;) :))
Post by: jmdt on September 07, 2010, 02:07:14 am
Yeah, I figured it didn't work so well unupped.how well would this work unupped?I've tried this deck unupped before and it certainly did not fare as well as its upped version. The quantum gain from towers versus pillars as well as a lack of the same strength from your creatures makes it much more difficult to rush your opponent with an unupped version. I also found that my loss rate was significantly greater than that of upped Speed EM (although this could have been just poor luck though I seriously doubt it).
Fantastic deck overall, though I too find the substitution of 5 emerald towers to life pendulums to be much more enjoyable when faced with an AI that decides to throw out the unexpected earthquake.
Yeah, I switched 5 Emerald towers out for 5 Life pendalums as well. Makes the eq elder much easier.
I need to update the 1st post one of these days.
Post by: icecoldbro on September 07, 2010, 02:31:31 am
DECK MADE
im so close i can taste the smell of t50
Post by: jmdt on September 07, 2010, 03:44:27 am
well id love to have this deck in my arsenal but being poor as i am i try to save every elctrum i have to make it:Awesome ICB. Run this guy a while and we'll see you in the top 50. If you get the frogs and swords updated, maybe some towers, this deck can function decently well partially upped.
20k electrum down 25 more to go this will updated evry day
Post by: Bootsza on September 15, 2010, 08:05:32 am
You'll have to pry the longswords out of my cold dead hands... :PHahaha, too true!
I have tried the variations on this deck and apart from changing in 5 Life Pendulums for Towers the original version is (in my experience) the best EM lvl 3 grinder I have found.
Thanks jmdt.
Post by: willng3 on September 15, 2010, 12:44:43 pm
Post by: jmdt on September 15, 2010, 02:10:27 pm
Glad you like it.You'll have to pry the longswords out of my cold dead hands... :PHahaha, too true!
I have tried the variations on this deck and apart from changing in 5 Life Pendulums for Towers the original version is (in my experience) the best EM lvl 3 grinder I have found.
Thanks jmdt.
I actually switched to pendulums a while ago, but was waiting on the deck image generator to update before I switched the 1st post.
Post by: Tharios on September 17, 2010, 05:51:54 am
It's completely unupped, and has no rares yet. I haven't tested it thoroughly, but after a couple dozen battles, it seems promising.
x2 Short Sword
x12 Emerald Pillar
x4 Emerald Dragon
x4 Horned Frog
x4 Heal
x4 Forest Scorpion
I noted one major problem I had when using an unupped version of the deck in the OP, was that there was no way to hit hard enough. So I knocked out the Cockatrices and a couple of Horned Frogs to make room for the Emerald Dragons to bring some much-needed firepower to the field. After that, I knocked out a couple of the Heals since only 2 or 3 at most are ever needed (unless things go so squirrely that you were doomed to begin with...no deck is perfect after all), and added the Short Swords (until I can get my hands on a Druidic Staff or two). In place of the remaining Cockatrices, I used Forest Scorpions instead. Granted, they don't pack the punch of a Cockatrice or even a Horned Frog, but having even one out on your first full turn can make an incredible difference as those poison counters start to build. By the time you're ready to whip out a couple of dragons for the finishing blow, you have all your heals ready to fill your health and you probably only need one dragon to kill your opponent anyway.
Again...it's still a work-in-progress, and it's probably not similar enough to the OP deck to be located here, but I thought I'd offer up the variation and see what happens.
Post by: icecoldbro on September 17, 2010, 06:17:57 am
I've just made a variation of this deck, though perhaps it's unique now.ok if ur going unuped granted cockatrices and horned frogs aint too powerful but if ur using uped version dont use drags they just slow u down
It's completely unupped, and has no rares yet. I haven't tested it thoroughly, but after a couple dozen battles, it seems promising.
x2 Short Sword
x12 Emerald Pillar
x4 Emerald Dragon
x4 Horned Frog
x4 Heal
x4 Forest Scorpion
I noted one major problem I had when using an unupped version of the deck in the OP, was that there was no way to hit hard enough. So I knocked out the Cockatrices and a couple of Horned Frogs to make room for the Emerald Dragons to bring some much-needed firepower to the field. After that, I knocked out a couple of the Heals since only 2 or 3 at most are ever needed (unless things go so squirrely that you were doomed to begin with...no deck is perfect after all), and added the Short Swords (until I can get my hands on a Druidic Staff or two). In place of the remaining Cockatrices, I used Forest Scorpions instead. Granted, they don't pack the punch of a Cockatrice or even a Horned Frog, but having even one out on your first full turn can make an incredible difference as those poison counters start to build. By the time you're ready to whip out a couple of dragons for the finishing blow, you have all your heals ready to fill your health and you probably only need one dragon to kill your opponent anyway.
Again...it's still a work-in-progress, and it's probably not similar enough to the OP deck to be located here, but I thought I'd offer up the variation and see what happens.
on a cost to damage this creature beats all (cept ball of lightning) making it ideal if u wanna go for speed also their high enough hit points makes them stand a chyance in this CC filled world
so dont use a variation (unless ur playing likie pends and maybe a druidic)this deck is better if kept as is
Post by: Kurohami on September 17, 2010, 09:17:40 pm
Technically, spark wouldn't count as having a higher damage to cost ratio, since it only attacks one turn, and frog attacks as many turns as it is alive, so they can't be properly compared. Something interesting though, is that photon would technically have the greatest damage to cost ratio since it doesn't die immediately after played. The ratio of frog 5/2, the ratio of photon 1/0, 1/0 can be interpreted as infinite so it beats all other creatures. As of card advantage, photon would suck, because it takes 5 phton to do as much damage as 1 frog. Not trying to prove you wrong, just thought people might find this interesting.I've just made a variation of this deck, though perhaps it's unique now.ok if ur going unuped granted cockatrices and horned frogs aint too powerful but if ur using uped version dont use drags they just slow u down
It's completely unupped, and has no rares yet. I haven't tested it thoroughly, but after a couple dozen battles, it seems promising.
x2 Short Sword
x12 Emerald Pillar
x4 Emerald Dragon
x4 Horned Frog
x4 Heal
x4 Forest Scorpion
I noted one major problem I had when using an unupped version of the deck in the OP, was that there was no way to hit hard enough. So I knocked out the Cockatrices and a couple of Horned Frogs to make room for the Emerald Dragons to bring some much-needed firepower to the field. After that, I knocked out a couple of the Heals since only 2 or 3 at most are ever needed (unless things go so squirrely that you were doomed to begin with...no deck is perfect after all), and added the Short Swords (until I can get my hands on a Druidic Staff or two). In place of the remaining Cockatrices, I used Forest Scorpions instead. Granted, they don't pack the punch of a Cockatrice or even a Horned Frog, but having even one out on your first full turn can make an incredible difference as those poison counters start to build. By the time you're ready to whip out a couple of dragons for the finishing blow, you have all your heals ready to fill your health and you probably only need one dragon to kill your opponent anyway.
Again...it's still a work-in-progress, and it's probably not similar enough to the OP deck to be located here, but I thought I'd offer up the variation and see what happens.
on a cost to damage this creature beats all (cept ball of lightning) making it ideal if u wanna go for speed also their high enough hit points makes them stand a chyance in this CC filled world
so dont use a variation (unless ur playing likie pends and maybe a druidic)this deck is better if kept as is
Post by: Tharios on September 17, 2010, 10:21:43 pm
@ Kurohami: Interesting idea, I wonder if there's a way to exploit that for a deck. Too bad there's no Nightfall equivalent for Light creatures.
For the sake of argument, I can't provide statistics or claims on the performance or potential of this deck. I can only offer my opinion based on casual observation through casual gameplay. I don't grind, and I certainly don't take notes on how many turns it takes to win, how many times out of so many games it wins, and so on. Not that I have a problem with those that do, it's just not my schtick.
If someone wants to find out just how my version stacks up, feel free. I'm certainly curious, just not curious enough to play in a scientific way at the expense of my fun.
Speaking of which, it's been modified...
x12 Emerald Pillar
x3 Emerald Dragon
x4 Horned Frog
x6 Heal
x1 Druidic Staff
x4 Forest Scorpion
My only problem seems to be a consistent shortage of pillars, though I haven't noticed a drastic effect on performance. I may very well take ICB's advice and ditch the dragons just to free up more space for extra pillars. I usually don't bring out the dragons til the kill-turn anyway, so I always have enough for them, but I always seem to be short on pillars early on. Ah well, something to consider.
Post by: jmdt on September 17, 2010, 10:31:48 pm
@ ICB: Thanks for the input, but so far it's working for me, and after some adjustments it's sped up noticeably, I think. So, I'll stick with it anyway.Yeah for an unupped EM deck dragons are definately needed for damage. That version is close to what I'd try. However cockatrice should be better than scorpion here for the same cost. Also instead of the staff, I'd look at another cock or dragon.
@ Kurohami: Interesting idea, I wonder if there's a way to exploit that for a deck. Too bad there's no Nightfall equivalent for Light creatures.
For the sake of argument, I can't provide statistics or claims on the performance or potential of this deck. I can only offer my opinion based on casual observation through casual gameplay. I don't grind, and I certainly don't take notes on how many turns it takes to win, how many times out of so many games it wins, and so on. Not that I have a problem with those that do, it's just not my schtick.
If someone wants to find out just how my version stacks up, feel free. I'm certainly curious, just not curious enough to play in a scientific way at the expense of my fun.
Speaking of which, it's been modified...
x12 Emerald Pillar
x3 Emerald Dragon
x4 Horned Frog
x6 Heal
x1 Druidic Staff
x4 Forest Scorpion
My only problem seems to be a consistent shortage of pillars, though I haven't noticed a drastic effect on performance. I may very well take ICB's advice and ditch the dragons just to free up more space for extra pillars. I usually don't bring out the dragons til the kill-turn anyway, so I always have enough for them, but I always seem to be short on pillars early on. Ah well, something to consider.
I may give this concept a try. I haven't messed much with an unupped EM deck yet.
Post by: peleon on September 19, 2010, 03:03:52 am
Post by: icecoldbro on September 19, 2010, 03:11:20 am
I have been using a version of this deck, grinding level 3's. In the last couple weeks i have got to upgrade 20 of my cards. This is the best way that i have come across to upgrade my cards. So i would like to thank jmdt for giving me the deck idea.
*secretary voice*
mister jmdt isnt receiving compliments right about now, *checks schedule* mr. jmdt wont receive u till november 5th at 3:00 am
Post by: peleon on September 21, 2010, 09:23:02 pm
I can wait.I have been using a version of this deck, grinding level 3's. In the last couple weeks i have got to upgrade 20 of my cards. This is the best way that i have come across to upgrade my cards. So i would like to thank jmdt for giving me the deck idea.
*secretary voice*
mister jmdt isnt receiving compliments right about now, *checks schedule* mr. jmdt wont receive u till november 5th at 3:00 am
Post by: Toge111 on September 23, 2010, 06:14:12 pm
Upped frog is always better than unupped frog, even with adrenaline.- Not 'always'. Unupped frog does more damage with adrenaline than upped frog according to this page (http://elementswiki.co.cc/cards-life/adrenaline-epinephrine/).
Post by: jmdt on September 23, 2010, 06:20:17 pm
I have been using a version of this deck, grinding level 3's. In the last couple weeks i have got to upgrade 20 of my cards. This is the best way that i have come across to upgrade my cards. So i would like to thank jmdt for giving me the deck idea.Thanks peleon, glad you like it.
While unupped frog does more damage with adrenaline, upped frog will net more damage over time since you will not always have then adrenalined.Upped frog is always better than unupped frog, even with adrenaline.- Not 'always'. Unupped frog does more damage with adrenaline than upped frog according to this page (http://elementswiki.co.cc/cards-life/adrenaline-epinephrine/).
Post by: Toimu13 on September 24, 2010, 02:38:11 am
True. Play T50, I've hit a lot of upped Life rushes, they are better than non-upped ones.While unupped frog does more damage with adrenaline, upped frog will net more damage over time since you will not always have then adrenalined.Upped frog is always better than unupped frog, even with adrenaline.- Not 'always'. Unupped frog does more damage with adrenaline than upped frog according to this page (http://elementswiki.co.cc/cards-life/adrenaline-epinephrine/).
Post by: Toge111 on September 24, 2010, 08:40:21 am
While unupped frog does more damage with adrenaline, upped frog will net more damage over time since you will not always have then adrenalined.- It seems plausible. By the way, is it better to upgrade frog first for 3/3 -> 5/3 or cockatrice for 4/4 -> 5/5? Creatures dying seems to be rarely an issue and frogs are more often on board because of their cheaper cost.
I just love this deck! It has the most consistent winning rate and straight-forward way to play I've seen, plus it upgrades so well. For this reason it's not just good for score gain, but also electrum.
Post by: Jinxso on October 01, 2010, 04:33:03 am
- It seems plausible. By the way, is it better to upgrade frog first for 3/3 -> 5/3 or cockatrice for 4/4 -> 5/5? Creatures dying seems to be rarely an issue and frogs are more often on board because of their cheaper cost.Upgrade the frog's first. It is a very nice jump for a 2 cost creature to 5 dmg. I did the order as follows
I just love this deck! It has the most consistent winning rate and straight-forward way to play I've seen, plus it upgrades so well. For this reason it's not just good for score gain, but also electrum.
Towers
Frogs
Cockatrice
Some may disagree with Towers first however there is something to be said for getting 2 creatures out first turn. Without upgrading any creatures that is
6 damage out first turn.
My current variant runs:
10 Towers
6 Frogs
6 Cockatrices
3 Shards of Gratitude
1 Druid Staff
4 heals
Slows it down just slightly but it up's the EM results when fully upgraded. My win's slightly increased and about 90% of all win's are EM's now. Rough numbers of course just from observation.
Post by: Tharios on October 01, 2010, 07:22:48 am
Code: [Select]
5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bs 5bt 5bt 5bt 5bu 5bu 5bu 5bu 5bu 5bu 5c2 5c2 5c2 5c2 5c2 5c5 5c7 5c7 5c7 5c7 5c7I have actually upgraded a couple of cards, but I've left them out since the point was to see how to balance out an unupped version of the deck. It's slow going, not because the deck is too slow or loses too much, but because I just don't play that much or that fast. I play maybe a dozen games a day, if that...and there are usually 5 minutes to an hour between games.
Post by: harry959 on October 01, 2010, 10:05:33 pm
Post by: EvaRia on October 02, 2010, 12:22:33 am
Have you ever tried making an EM deck using Holy flashes?
Post by: willng3 on October 02, 2010, 02:01:45 am
Awesome deck, it's always basically autoquit for me in t50 ><Yeah, doesn't work anywhere near as well. I tried it with a Shrieker Rush and ended up EMing because the opponent failed to play anything more than using the Holy Flashes. It can work, just don't expect it to work as efficiently.
Have you ever tried making an EM deck using Holy flashes?
Post by: genraenera on October 11, 2010, 11:14:02 pm
Code: [Select]
6rk 6rk 7ac 7ac 7ac 7ac 7ac 7ae 7ae 7ae 7ae 7ae 7ae 7ag 7ag 7ag 7ag 7ag 7ag 7ai 7ai 7ai 7ai 7ai 7ai 7an 7bu 7bu 7bu 7buIts just the OP deck -1 pendulum +1 epinephrine. I usually find that I have just a bit too much quanta, but 11 (6+5) towers seems about right. The epi is 3 quanta for 6 damage, which beats a cockatrice when there isn't a shield out. I guess its such a small difference that it really wont make any change in the TTW or the EM%, so I might just go back to the original after a bit.
I'm not recording stats, but I've gotten 3000 elec from farming with this so far, am getting EM probly around 75-80% of the time, and only have lost once. The entropy guy got a second turn discord on me, followed by a purple dragon and shut me down... I nearly beat him though, he had like 12 hp left.
Pro deck, I highly recommend it for anyone reading this thread.
Post by: jmdt on October 12, 2010, 01:00:09 am
I've been using this deck for a day now, it rocks. I'm currently testing this variant right now:Kuross and I have had several discussions about adding an epi or 2. Kuross runs 5 heals and an epi. Epi's are fun, but they also decrease the stability as they add weakness to infection and fire and thorn shield. I personally like 6 heals and 10 towers so I use the version in the 1st post. Either way works almost identical.Code: [Select]6rk 6rk 7ac 7ac 7ac 7ac 7ac 7ae 7ae 7ae 7ae 7ae 7ae 7ag 7ag 7ag 7ag 7ag 7ag 7ai 7ai 7ai 7ai 7ai 7ai 7an 7bu 7bu 7bu 7bu
Its just the OP deck -1 pendulum +1 epinephrine. I usually find that I have just a bit too much quanta, but 11 (6+5) towers seems about right. The epi is 3 quanta for 6 damage, which beats a cockatrice when there isn't a shield out. I guess its such a small difference that it really wont make any change in the TTW or the EM%, so I might just go back to the original after a bit.
I'm not recording stats, but I've gotten 3000 elec from farming with this so far, am getting EM probly around 75-80% of the time, and only have lost once. The entropy guy got a second turn discord on me, followed by a purple dragon and shut me down... I nearly beat him though, he had like 12 hp left.
Pro deck, I highly recommend it for anyone reading this thread.
Post by: genraenera on October 12, 2010, 01:35:11 am
Post by: JJ 52 on October 23, 2010, 07:58:42 pm
Post by: jmdt on October 30, 2010, 07:23:21 pm
Love this deck. I play it with -1 sword and +1 green nymph and it works like a charm.How fast do you get out the green nymph?
Post by: JJ 52 on October 31, 2010, 01:18:37 pm
The earliest Ive gotten it out is second turn, but usually I can play it a turn or two after I draw it if I dont play any other cards.
Im not sure if its all that good of a substitution, a regular epi might be better, but I enjoy using my nymph and once you use its ability once you have a 12|6 creature and again can equal playing another frog :P
Post by: BC on November 21, 2010, 05:33:01 pm
Post by: jmdt on November 21, 2010, 06:45:51 pm
Aside from being the current most efficient lvl 3 EMer, this deck is also infamous for being one of the only decks that AI actually plays well. Once those new people who farm t50 learn about who the creator of this deck is, I bet you'd get a lot of hate mail. :)Believe it or not, the fact that the AI plays :life well is one of the factors that led to this deck's creation. Before I switched to :life decks, I used a shrieker rush with SoGs and maybe diamond shield for Em's. I got tred of hearing how everyone beat my shrieker decks so I figured :life would still work as well for me and also provide a decent challenge for T50 grinders. Almost from day 1 the feedback was that the life deck provided a very solid challenge. After several iterations of :life decks, I finally settled on this guy as the most efficient and a legend was born. :)
Post by: TheForbiddenOracle on December 10, 2010, 09:58:35 pm
Post by: jmdt on December 10, 2010, 10:00:42 pm
This is the deck alot of the T50 use. People hate this deck a lot when trying to farm T50 (like I do). Seriously can't get a win on this deck no matter what T50 farm I use.Yeah the AI is very good at using this deck. Try adding wings. wings > this deck.
Post by: TheIdioticIdiot on December 11, 2010, 01:21:40 am
rage!!!!
ok, calmed down now.. (not that i was rly raging, just fake rage to add to the already-existing drama)
anyway, i think i will aim for this deck once i complete my "CC? Why bother?" deck
Post by: TheForbiddenOracle on December 11, 2010, 02:06:48 am
Post by: jmdt on December 11, 2010, 02:09:48 am
This deck is really good to piss people offIt wasn't intended to be an unbeatable annoyance deck actually. The fact that it dominates AI3 carries over to when the AI uses it in T50.
Then again, I did switch to life rushes becasue it irritated me that the AI always burrowed shriekers.
Post by: joaopcl on December 11, 2010, 10:40:34 am
Post by: smuglapse on December 16, 2010, 11:23:24 pm
Thanks. :)
Post by: jmdt on December 16, 2010, 11:39:54 pm
Hey jmdt. Could you update the Deck Archive with the current version of this deck? The code there does not include pendulums.Fixed
Thanks. :)
Post by: TheIdioticIdiot on December 17, 2010, 11:08:38 pm
Post by: geekz_always_win on December 17, 2010, 11:59:23 pm
I'm not getting this half an hour for 1000 score deal. I mean I guess since I'm so filthy rich anyways ( :P) I can afford to, but what's the net electrum loss by skipping versus score gained by skipping? Would someone try that?
EDIT: Just spun a Arctic Squid and got a nice 259 electrum. I feel less inclined to skip now, :))
Post by: BC on December 18, 2010, 12:51:32 am
Post by: TheForbiddenOracle on December 18, 2010, 01:16:05 am
Grinding ai3 is good for your score and win%. If you still care about :electrum, grind fgs instead.grinding t50 better than ai3
Post by: jmdt on December 18, 2010, 01:22:28 am
I sold an arm and a leg, (Just kidding, just farmed FGs for 2 hours, sold like 7 cards and I had 10000 electrum in my inventory already and all the frogs and heals upped already, so it was really cheap.) I digress, but is it worth it to spin?Definately do not skip spins. Based on my statistics, you get 1480 score per hour and 2844 electrum per hour assuming you spin. Definately not the way to go for electrum, but NO deck will beat it for score. It does have respectable and consistant electrum earnings though.
I'm not getting this half an hour for 1000 score deal. I mean I guess since I'm so filthy rich anyways ( :P) I can afford to, but what's the net electrum loss by skipping versus score gained by skipping? Would someone try that?
EDIT: Just spun a Arctic Squid and got a nice 259 electrum. I feel less inclined to skip now, :))
Post by: BC on December 18, 2010, 01:24:08 am
Post by: jmdt on December 18, 2010, 01:28:49 am
grinding t50 better than ai3Not really. For electrum, maybe, depending on the layout of the T50 at the time; the fg's will always be better for this thugh. For score, T50 just can't keep up due to the sheer number of losses and lower number of EM's the AI3. The thing T50 is good for is picking up rare cards that you can not get elsewhere.
Post by: geekz_always_win on December 18, 2010, 01:49:50 am
If there were no farms, then yeah, T50 would be pretty unused like AI5.grinding t50 better than ai3Not really. For electrum, maybe, depending on the layout of the T50 at the time; the fg's will always be better for this thugh. For score, T50 just can't keep up due to the sheer number of losses and lower number of EM's the AI3. The thing T50 is good for is picking up rare cards that you can not get elsewhere.
I wonder if this deck will still be viable after some new AI3s are made, lots of new cards.
Post by: TheIdioticIdiot on December 18, 2010, 02:13:28 am
Post by: jmdt on December 18, 2010, 02:13:44 am
It should be. Sans upped cards and cards like RoF and pandemonium, the deck is a very stable deck. The deck has 12 cheap critters, 2 cheap weapons and 120 healing and is relatively fast. it can deal with lots of adversity.If there were no farms, then yeah, T50 would be pretty unused like AI5.grinding t50 better than ai3Not really. For electrum, maybe, depending on the layout of the T50 at the time; the fg's will always be better for this thugh. For score, T50 just can't keep up due to the sheer number of losses and lower number of EM's the AI3. The thing T50 is good for is picking up rare cards that you can not get elsewhere.
I wonder if this deck will still be viable after some new AI3s are made, lots of new cards.
Post by: Tea is good on December 19, 2010, 12:22:40 am
Post by: TheonlyrealBeef on December 19, 2010, 10:20:25 am
Post by: TheForbiddenOracle on December 19, 2010, 01:12:11 pm
I think we need a new USEM with 1.26 :-[USEM?
Post by: TheIdioticIdiot on December 19, 2010, 01:28:19 pm
Post by: Higurashi on December 19, 2010, 01:38:03 pm
Go DEMA :>
Post by: The_Mormegil on December 19, 2010, 02:19:19 pm
I grind AI3 only when I'm doing something else with my PC, because I find FGs more satisfying and I'm not playing for score or anything, just for the fun of it. So I encountered a few problems today with the new AI3, since MOST of them DESTROYED me...
I used DEMA, Shrieker Rush... even this. I think we need a new deck.
Post by: Higurashi on December 19, 2010, 02:50:33 pm
Tons of rushes that kick Elder ass. If you want an unupped speed EM deck: http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,15361
Keep in mind the current Elders may not be permanent. Some of them are quite unoptimised and strange for testing purposes.
Post by: TheForbiddenOracle on December 19, 2010, 04:51:10 pm
I think we need another couple of AI3 unupped grinders. I mean, DEMA is good and all, but I don't have the money to upgrade my main rainbow deck, not to talk about off-decks like AI3 grinders.Pretty much every deck that's been moded can kick AI3's a$$. It's about how fast it is, shrieker rush is incredibly fast but here are decks for every element http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,1190.0.html
I grind AI3 only when I'm doing something else with my PC, because I find FGs more satisfying and I'm not playing for score or anything, just for the fun of it. So I encountered a few problems today with the new AI3, since MOST of them DESTROYED me...
I used DEMA, Shrieker Rush... even this. I think we need a new deck.
Post by: Higurashi on December 19, 2010, 05:02:59 pm
Post by: 10 men on December 19, 2010, 05:10:37 pm
I think we need a new USEM with 1.26 :-[think it's mono-Darkness now.
Post by: Higurashi on December 19, 2010, 05:12:10 pm
Post by: 10 men on December 19, 2010, 05:17:31 pm
Post by: Higurashi on December 19, 2010, 05:22:21 pm
Post by: BC on December 19, 2010, 10:24:21 pm
Post by: jmdt on December 19, 2010, 10:44:54 pm
New elders are far too competent for their own good. Now I miss that annoying :water/ :aether elder. Speedbow seems to do fine for now, but man is that :time/ :light annoying. I will try monodark, but there are lot of quantum pillar elders running around too. Just can't beat them so fast anymore.About 80 games in, I'm getting a 7.286 ttw, 76.62% EM rate and 97.47% win rate versus the new elders with this deck. All things considered, those stats are not far off from those from the previous elders.
The sky is definately not falling.
Post by: TheIdioticIdiot on December 19, 2010, 10:47:40 pm
Post by: BC on December 20, 2010, 12:20:31 am
Sky is not falling, USEM is still good (although I did not get that high of a win rate from my tests) but these elders are far more focused and competent than the old ones. They are actually pretty threatening if you take too long to kill them.New elders are far too competent for their own good. Now I miss that annoying :water/ :aether elder. Speedbow seems to do fine for now, but man is that :time/ :light annoying. I will try monodark, but there are lot of quantum pillar elders running around too. Just can't beat them so fast anymore.About 80 games in, I'm getting a 7.286 ttw, 76.62% EM rate and 97.47% win rate versus the new elders with this deck. All things considered, those stats are not far off from those from the previous elders.
The sky is definately not falling.
Post by: geekz_always_win on December 20, 2010, 05:25:06 am
Post by: 10 men on December 20, 2010, 04:54:29 pm
Mono-Life is still good, you just ocasionally lose to the new mono-Aether guy.
Code: [Select]
6u1 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6u3 6ve 6ve 6ve 6ve 6ve 713 77g 77g 7ai 7ai 7dm 7dm 7gm 7jr 7qb 7qb 7qb 7qb 7qb 7qb 7tb 7tb 80gThis deck is also pretty good, very fast, gets lots of EMs, but you ocasionally lose... to yourself. But it's very nice for getting to know the new decks because of the Precogs. ;)Code: [Select]
7t4 7t4 7t4 7t4 7t6 7t6 7t6 7t6 7t6 7t6 7t8 7t9 7t9 7ta 7ta 7tb 7tb 7td 7td 7td 7td 7td 7td 7tf 7tf 7tf 7um 7um 7um 7umFor those who want their 99% winrate back, this is probably the way to go. Not very fast and pretty difficult to play though.
Post by: BC on December 21, 2010, 04:53:37 am
Post by: jmdt on December 21, 2010, 05:12:38 am
the win rate is down a few games, but the EM rate is up just a bit.
Post by: TheForbiddenOracle on December 21, 2010, 09:32:34 pm
Post by: willng3 on December 21, 2010, 09:34:16 pm
So did they make new AI3 or make them harder?Err...I'm not exactly understanding the first part of that question, but thus far because the TTW values are becoming slower, EMing is becoming (if slightly) less frequent, and losses are increasing I would have to say the new AI3 is more difficult than the previous.
Post by: Higurashi on December 21, 2010, 10:01:40 pm
Post by: TheIdioticIdiot on December 21, 2010, 10:23:54 pm
any elder with CC spell that does less than 5 dmg (poison counts): always send in a cockatrice first, to absorb the CC, more often than not, ur opponent won't have two, and he will still live
any elder with rewinds: send in frogs first, as they cost less, so if they get rewinded, it's easier to bring them out again
the one elder with pandemoniums: send in cockatrice over frogs, but still send frogs if no cockatrices, typically, u won't be owned by pandemoniums too bad...
Post by: rowcla on December 23, 2010, 01:37:53 pm
unless you have a ridiculously high score already and want to stay in the leaderboards, isnt score pretty much uselessOff:You farm AI3 with this deck to gain score. AI3 is already the best for score gain and by having the high EM potential with high speed makes this much greater. You can seriously gain 4-5K score in a sitting with this deck if you want to.
I don't understand, why would anyone farm AI3 if you have so much cash to Upgrade a Mono rush deck?
On:
About the deck, it's a "basic" use 6 of all cards deck, what where your results with adrenaline and unUpped frogs?
I do not use adrenaline as it makes for a less stable deck. infection and fire shield destroy a card with adrenaline and against CC you lose 2 cards when an adrenalined card is killed. Upped frog is always better than unupped frog, even with adrenaline.
Post by: TheIdioticIdiot on December 23, 2010, 01:50:48 pm
Post by: rowcla on December 23, 2010, 02:01:13 pm
u do want to look good right?who am i impressing?
Post by: Ryan666 on December 23, 2010, 02:02:17 pm
Post by: TheIdioticIdiot on December 23, 2010, 03:36:31 pm
Post by: The_Mormegil on December 23, 2010, 03:44:31 pm
it's not slow... u get one match every minute or so, not counting the spinsIt's definitely slow... if unupped.
Having attack 3 and 4 critters is just BAD. It has ttk of about 8-9
Post by: TheIdioticIdiot on December 23, 2010, 03:52:31 pm
the unupped version has a ttk of about 8 to 9?
that's fast for an unupped deck, not tho mention it's EM
and the upped version has about 6 to 7 ttk (which is good, in case u didn't know...)
Post by: thatnewguy on December 23, 2010, 03:59:14 pm
Post by: Higurashi on December 23, 2010, 04:02:16 pm
Post by: jmdt on December 23, 2010, 05:22:07 pm
Blahhh, this deck may be good but it's quite slow in my opinion and also quite boring.I've won in 4 turns with this deck on several occasions. The fastest possible win is 3 turns. This is the fastest deck in the game, but its not slow either.
Post by: TheIdioticIdiot on December 23, 2010, 05:39:19 pm
Post by: The_Mormegil on December 23, 2010, 10:12:01 pm
Yes, it works very differently unupped, and the pepoker is better in that case. Little less vulnerable, lot more quanta. http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,15361Hmmm... That's an intresting deck. I will try it.
[Anyway, 8-9 ttw unupped is NOT fast. SG's AI3 Pillarless Farmer deck has a ttw of 7 and something, IIRC, and when I once won in 4 turns with it...]
Post by: Higurashi on December 23, 2010, 10:15:08 pm
Post by: willng3 on December 23, 2010, 11:07:47 pm
Post by: grindpower on December 25, 2010, 11:26:23 pm
Post by: Polari on January 27, 2011, 06:12:31 pm
edit - I'm talking about upped staves, in case you've got them from FGs. Looks like that bit got lost while editing.
Post by: jmdt on January 27, 2011, 06:37:42 pm
I just built the deck with -1 Sword -1 Pendulum +1 Staff +1 Epinephrine as both cards had supporters in the thread and they let me get to business with two less upgrades. Epinephrine was horrible and I replaced it as soon as I got up to 1500. Staff seemed ok - sometimes better, sometimes worse than a Sword. Probably a little worse overall and I'll soon get that second Sword too, but I'd say that Staves are viable if you have them and want to get away with fewer upgrades.Yep, without upgrades, the staff will be much better than the sword if you need a weapon although I'd use the pillar until I can updrade a sword.
Generally the sword if faster, but the staff gives a bit better EM rate.
Post by: Polari on January 28, 2011, 11:03:23 am
Yep, without upgrades, the staff will be much better than the sword if you need a weapon although I'd use the pillar until I can updrade a sword.I meant upgraded versions, as I had a bunch of upped staves lying around from not selling my FG drops. The only uses you're ever going to have for an upped sword are a handful of rush decks so I see some value in skipping that specific one. Maybe it's just me though.
Generally the sword if faster, but the staff gives a bit better EM rate.
Post by: Acsabi44 on February 28, 2011, 11:35:59 am
Post by: jmdt on February 28, 2011, 04:14:26 pm
Zanz is so great.
Post by: Acsabi44 on February 28, 2011, 07:13:24 pm
I haven't tested, but it will definately increase score/electrum per hour.It's about 10 seconds faster for me on average.
Zanz is so great.
Post by: The_Mormegil on March 04, 2011, 02:49:07 pm
Post by: willng3 on March 04, 2011, 03:24:38 pm
Anybody tried Mitosis in this?girlsgeneration posted a "Neo-USEM" quite some time ago which replaces 1 Long Sword for a Tower and the Cockatrice for Mitosis. There have been good reports on it thus far, but I have my doubts about the consistency; with Mitosis finally being available in the bazaar I plan to see for myself.
Post by: jmdt on March 04, 2011, 04:06:49 pm
Post by: Higurashi on March 04, 2011, 04:21:29 pm
Something with 3 Cocks and 3 Mitosis would be smarter against these Elders if you only consider winrate, or even 4 Cocks/2 Mitosis. It doesn't make much of an impact though, because the two main problems are these:
Shield lockdown with Wings, Dim Shield and Hope.
Excessive CC, such as Pandemonium, Maxwell's Demon, Shockwave, Lightning and Rage Potion/Red Nymph (AI is too dumb with Oty).
Adding Mitosis solves neither and slows the deck down. With less speed, you'll be -even- more likely to let the Elders get set up. Conclusion: with 4 cost, it's not practical for speed at all.
Upsides: late-game when you often have tons of :life, a Mitosis will be more useful than yet another cockatrice. Often you'll find you're doing enough damage to finish in two or three turns, at which point adding more doesn't help. With Mitosis, you could ramp that damage up faster and maybe shave a turn off in some cases.
Post by: Bootsza on March 06, 2011, 06:25:56 am
Code: [Select]
6rk 6rk 7ac 7ac 7ac 7ac 7ac 7ae 7ae 7ae 7ae 7ae 7ag 7ag 7ag 7ag 7ag 7ai 7ai 7ai 7ai 7ai 7ai 7ap 7ap 7bu 7bu 7bu 7bu 7buBlank cards being mitosis.
I dropped one frog and one cockatrice to fit in the mitosis. The problems with shields and CC remain but mitosis does seem to even out some bad draws and damage production.
I chose to drop one of each creature type thinking to play mitosis on a frog for a AI3 without CC and on a cockatrice for those with rain of fire, eagle's eye, etc...
I also experimented with two staves instead of long swords but, once again, I found the speed increase with swords to be undeniable.
Post by: jmdt on March 06, 2011, 06:28:08 am
What Higurashi says is true, however, I have had some succes with this Mitosis version:When I get the electrum, I'll up some mitosis and try this.Code: [Select]6rk 6rk 7ac 7ac 7ac 7ac 7ac 7ae 7ae 7ae 7ae 7ae 7ag 7ag 7ag 7ag 7ag 7ai 7ai 7ai 7ai 7ai 7ai 7ap 7ap 7bu 7bu 7bu 7bu 7bu
Blank cards being mitosis.
I dropped one frog and one cockatrice to fit in the mitosis. The problems with shields and CC remain but mitosis does seem to even out some bad draws and damage production.
I chose to drop one of each creature type thinking to play mitosis on a frog for a AI3 without CC and on a cockatrice for those with rain of fire, eagle's eye, etc...
I also experimented with two staves instead of long swords but, once again, I found the speed increase with swords to be undeniable.
Post by: Bootsza on March 06, 2011, 10:31:19 am
Post by: Jappert on March 06, 2011, 10:37:16 am
Mitosis is also cutely useful against that Time mark with an early dune scorpion :)That might just be the easiest Elder around though for USEM. :D
Post by: Bootsza on March 06, 2011, 10:43:27 am
Post by: willng3 on March 07, 2011, 02:40:05 am
| Games: 200 | Avg. TTW: 7.223 | Avg. sec/game: 62.135 | Avg. Score/Min: 28.44290657 | Wins: 193 | Losses: 7 | Ems: 148 | Win %: 96.5 | EM%: 77% |
| Games: 200 | Avg ttw: 7.157 | Avg. sec/game: 61.335 | Avg. Score/Min: 29.01442896 | Wins: 197 | Losses: 3 | Ems: 145 | Win %: 98.5 | EM%: 74% |
USEM Score/Hour: 1707
USEMosis Score/Hour: 1741
Time required to obtain 1k score:
USEM: 35.1 minutes
USEMosis: 34.5 minutes.
USEM Electrum/Hour (without spins): 1921
USEMosis Electrum/Hour (without spins): 1954
Time required to upgrade 1 card:
USEM: 46.9 minutes
USEMosis: 46.1 minutes
Now then...
After test running the "improved" variation of USEM, I have one thing to add. Even though I managed to provide stats which support the fact that USEMosis makes more score/electrum per hour over the original USEM, I would still suggest using the older variation unless you are extremely experienced with AI3 grinding. In order to obtain these stats I had to make decisions with practically lightning fast speed; such choices are NOT made when dealing with a deck which does not run Mitosis. Because you have to think (yes, think) when playing Mitosis, the mindless grinding aspect is essentially removed from the equation completely, which means you could potentially take much more time considering your next move and this as a result would cause the score/min value to decrease as a result. Plus, the fact that the values are already super, super close to each other means that with enough luck USEM could actually overtake USEMosis yet again (The first 50 games I did with USEMosis were actually lower in terms of TTW than USEM, and by the 150th game the difference between the two was 0.005TTW. Score/Min remained in USEMosis's favor the entire time, however).
I hope this was helpful to clear up the debate between USEM with Mitosis over the same old, same old. I'm 90% sure that the variation with 2 Mitosis is as efficient as any USEM variation running Mitosis will get. 3 in this deck requires too much quanta and reduces reliability by a greater factor, and 1 would make the difference negligible; this is as good as it gets...for now.
Post by: TheForbiddenOracle on March 07, 2011, 02:45:44 am
Okay, big, big news. I ran 200 test games on the version above, which has been dubbed "USEMosis" for simplicity's sake. I will compare the stats of both decks side by side with each other, so that everyone can see the difference clearly. *USEM=Green, USEMosis=OrangeHow do you grind that fast???More importantly...
Games: 200 Avg. TTW: 7.223 Avg. sec/game: 62.135 Avg. Score/Min: 28.44290657 Wins: 193 Losses: 7 Ems: 148 Win %: 96.5 EM%: 77% Games: 200 Avg ttw: 7.157 Avg. sec/game: 61.335 Avg. Score/Min: 29.01442896 Wins: 197 Losses: 3 Ems: 145 Win %: 98.5 EM%: 74%
USEM Score/Hour: 1707
USEMosis Score/Hour: 1741
Time required to obtain 1k score:
USEM: 35.1 minutes
USEMosis: 34.5 minutes.
USEM Electrum/Hour (without spins): 1921
USEMosis Electrum/Hour (without spins: 1954
Time required to upgrade 1 card:
USEM: 46.9
USEMosis: 46.1
Now then...
After test running the "improved" variation of USEM, I have one thing to add. Even though I managed to provide stats which support the fact that USEMosis makes more score/electrum per hour over the original USEM, I would still suggest using the older variation unless you are extremely experienced with AI3 grinding. In order to obtain these stats I had to make decisions with practically lightning fast speed; such choices are NOT made when dealing with a deck which does not run Mitosis. Because you have to think (yes, think) when playing Mitosis, the mindless grinding aspect is essentially removed from the equation completely, which means you could potentially take much more time considering your next move and this as a result would cause the score/min value to decrease as a result. Plus, the fact that the values are already super, super close to each other means that with enough luck USEM could actually overtake USEMosis yet again (The first 50 games I did with USEMosis were actually lower in terms of TTW than USEM, and by the 150th game the difference between the two was 0.005TTW. Score/Min remained in USEMosis's favor the entire time, however).
I hope this was helpful to clear up the debate between USEM with Mitosis over the same old, same old. I'm 90% sure that the variation with 2 Mitosis is as efficient as any USEM variation running Mitosis will get. 3 in this deck requires too much quanta and reduces reliability by a greater factor, and 1 would make the difference negligible; this is as good as it gets...for now.
Post by: thatnewguy on March 07, 2011, 02:47:01 am
Anyway, now that mitosis + USEM makes the new line of EM mono life *stares at wolfunit* This peaks my interest of a new series of mono life featuring cockatrices + heals + bonds for a new kind of EM deck. Or maybe just a variation of speed heal + mitosis, it will need work.
Good job will, glad you took the time for this.
Post by: willng3 on March 07, 2011, 02:49:36 am
How do you grind that fast???Experience and unbroken concentration. Plus the High Speed AI setting makes things much, much easier now. So...yes, I essentially am a robot when I grind.
Post by: Bootsza on March 07, 2011, 04:39:58 am
You are indeed a robot but mitosis is kinda fun is't it? :D
(I also love that name - USEMosis!)
Post by: jmdt on March 07, 2011, 06:31:31 pm
Nice work! Impressive stuff and it is great to see them side by side like that.Everyone send bootsza karma for his awesome improvement to USEM and AI3 farming.
You are indeed a robot but mitosis is kinda fun is't it? :D
(I also love that name - USEMosis!)
Bootsza you rock. I didn't think making a more efficient deck was possible.
Post by: Bootsza on March 07, 2011, 07:14:23 pm
It really is much appreciated but I was just messing about with your original deck and Willng3 did the hard yards.
It does feel good though to have my idea validated :D
Post by: Cybernetix on March 07, 2011, 07:22:21 pm
And also I have another Version, I'm playing with it now.
ATM I have an average of 6,5 TTW.
(http://helltgivre.free.fr/elements/?deck=z57aez47afz17agz57apz17b0z67buz17jo8pq)
Post by: Jappert on March 07, 2011, 07:46:57 pm
I would take out 1 Cockatrice and add 1 Giant Frog.That's a totally different deck man. It's not even an EM deck.
And also I have another Version, I'm playing with it now.
ATM I have an average of 6,5 TTW.
(http://helltgivre.free.fr/elements/?deck=z57aez47afz17agz57apz17b0z67buz17jo8pq)
Great job Bootsza + Will, that's very impressive!
Post by: catalyzeme on March 11, 2011, 07:45:06 am
Post by: Bootsza on March 11, 2011, 04:44:01 pm
:))
Post by: jmdt on March 11, 2011, 04:45:22 pm
Got Divine Glory from the oracle. Demolished him with USEMitosisthat is win cat
Post by: Fr0sTThunder on March 18, 2011, 12:39:35 am
Somewhat new to the game ive played berfore i was never good... so anways i got htis deck (un upped) and tried to beat a level 3 and i won 1/7 matches :( so how do you recommend getting enough money to up at least some of the cards before you make this deck?
I use a time earth rush deck (its a shrieker deck :D ) to farm level threes, and its good upped or un upped so should i save money from that deck and turn it to start making this deck?
I don't know how to do those deck screen shots sorry :( but heres what in it:
AI3 farming
mark of time
17 earth pillars
6 graboid
6 shrieker
1 hammer
I've played you in the top fifty and you beat me in like 3 turns :( Lol anyway thanks in advance
-Fr0sT :P
Post by: Higurashi on March 18, 2011, 12:48:02 am
If you want to get a high score before T50 vanishes, this is the best deck for it. For electrum, you're better off farming T50 or Fake Gods. Here's the deck archive for appropriate decks for all AI: http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/board,177.0.html
There is a plethora of competent decks all over the forum to peruse as well.
Post by: Fr0sTThunder on March 18, 2011, 12:57:57 am
-Fr0sT
Post by: omen36 on March 30, 2011, 01:35:09 am
Post by: TheForbiddenOracle on March 30, 2011, 01:36:38 am
This might be a stupid question, but is there any real reason to split the towers and the pendulums when your mark is the same as the pendulum?Quicksands
Post by: omen36 on March 30, 2011, 01:49:36 am
Post by: Opsinis on April 30, 2011, 01:46:51 pm
Post by: Marthisdil on May 04, 2011, 08:51:42 pm
6rk 7ac 7ac 7ac 7ac 7ac 7ae 7ae 7ae 7ae 7ae 7ag 7ag 7ag 7ag 7ag 7ai 7ai 7ai 7ai 7ai 7ai 7ak 7ak 7ap 7ap 7bu 7bu 7bu 7bu 7bu 8pn
(Deck pic attached).
Basically running 1 less frog, 1 less cockatrice, added in 2 jade shields...tossed in a long sword as proof against being decked by other 30 card decks...I've not run detailed analysis, but in AI3 I've only lost 2 games out of about 150 (bad draws are bad draws). This deck also does well against Top50.
edit: again, didn't keep details - deck wins between turns 5-7 as usual....in top50, if you go against a deck with phase shields, just quit the game lol
M
Post by: spiritkirinblade on May 04, 2011, 08:58:04 pm
Post by: Marthisdil on May 04, 2011, 09:08:54 pm
This variant probably slows down USEM's ultimate speed :P But yeah seems solid, you could try feral bonds if you are going for a longer gameYeah - not really looking for a longer game as such...more along the lines of a bit of defense...the shields basically shut down firebolt decks (seen in top 50 sometimes)...plus reduces zerg deck damage (if you get the mana fast enough to cast it). The Mitosis is just knowing when to play on what, but works great against antimatter - put it on the antimattered creature, and it just makes normal creatures....the AI won't ever nuke a creature it's antimattered, even with mitosis on it.
The sword was just a toss in as there are times where the games do get drawn out (rarely) - you technically could just remove it.
Post by: Wolfunit on May 05, 2011, 07:49:37 pm
He's a robot, don't ask. Just look at the pretty stats and enjoy.Wolfie loves you too.
Anyway, now that mitosis + USEM makes the new line of EM mono life *stares at wolfunit* This peaks my interest of a new series of mono life featuring cockatrices + heals + bonds for a new kind of EM deck. Or maybe just a variation of speed heal + mitosis, it will need work.
Good job will, glad you took the time for this.
Post by: kirchj33 on May 07, 2011, 05:24:40 am
*USEM=Green, USEMosis=Orange
| Games: 200 | Avg. TTW: 7.000 | Avg. sec/game: 64.055 | Avg. Score/Min: 26.91593 | Wins: 191 | Losses: 9 | Ems: 145 | Win %: 95.5 | EM%: 72.5% |
| Games: 200 | Avg ttw: 7.227 | Avg. sec/game: 66.405 | Avg. Score/Min: 27.07477 | Wins: 194 | Losses: 6 | Ems: 154 | Win %: 97.0 | EM%: 77% |
Again, more importantly...
Score/hr w/o spins: 1614.9559
Score/hr w/o spins: 1624.486
TSE (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,21923.msg323873#msg323873) - (rougly equivalent to score w/ spins)
TSE: 1416.002
TSE: 1430.595
Conclusion:
As stated before, this is the 4th time I've run this comparison. 2/4 times USEMosis had a lower TTW, 3/4 times it was more efficient. I would say this is enough evidence to safely say it is a slightly better farmer than the older version.
In comparing my stats to willng3's... some may be due to a difference in play style, but I would guess the main difference is due to random variation (ex. My draws, opposing draws, elder matchups). His efficiency is much greater and I would guess this is due to a combination of him having a more powerful CPU (I play on a laptop) and a slight nerf to the speed of Hi AI Speed in the time that has past since he posted his.
Post by: jmdt on May 09, 2011, 12:57:40 pm
Just to reinforce the results willng3 has posted... I've run the comparison 4 times now, but posting this now because its the first time I've run it on low quality...Interestimg as always Kirchj33
*USEM=Green, USEMosis=Orange
Games: 200 Avg. TTW: 7.000 Avg. sec/game: 64.055 Avg. Score/Min: 26.91593 Wins: 191 Losses: 9 Ems: 145 Win %: 95.5 EM%: 72.5% Games: 200 Avg ttw: 7.227 Avg. sec/game: 66.405 Avg. Score/Min: 27.07477 Wins: 194 Losses: 6 Ems: 154 Win %: 97.0 EM%: 77%
Again, more importantly...
Score/hr w/o spins: 1614.9559
Score/hr w/o spins: 1624.486
TSE (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,21923.msg323873#msg323873) - (rougly equivalent to score w/ spins)
TSE: 1416.002
TSE: 1430.595
Conclusion:
As stated before, this is the 4th time I've run this comparison. 2/4 times USEMosis had a lower TTW, 3/4 times it was more efficient. I would say this is enough evidence to safely say it is a slightly better farmer than the older version.
In comparing my stats to willng3's... some may be due to a difference in play style, but I would guess the main difference is due to random variation (ex. My draws, opposing draws, elder matchups). His efficiency is much greater and I would guess this is due to a combination of him having a more powerful CPU (I play on a laptop) and a slight nerf to the speed of Hi AI Speed in the time that has past since he posted his.
Post by: jmdt on May 09, 2011, 01:00:48 pm
Here's a slightly modified version of the USEMosis that I've been using with great success:My 1st version rolled the Jade shield. Ultimately, they are unnecesicary and slow down the net grinding speed.
6rk 7ac 7ac 7ac 7ac 7ac 7ae 7ae 7ae 7ae 7ae 7ag 7ag 7ag 7ag 7ag 7ai 7ai 7ai 7ai 7ai 7ai 7ak 7ak 7ap 7ap 7bu 7bu 7bu 7bu 7bu 8pn
(Deck pic attached).
Basically running 1 less frog, 1 less cockatrice, added in 2 jade shields...tossed in a long sword as proof against being decked by other 30 card decks...I've not run detailed analysis, but in AI3 I've only lost 2 games out of about 150 (bad draws are bad draws). This deck also does well against Top50.
edit: again, didn't keep details - deck wins between turns 5-7 as usual....in top50, if you go against a deck with phase shields, just quit the game lol
M
Post by: Marthisdil on May 09, 2011, 09:11:22 pm
I 100% agree, if all you want to do is grind AI3, then dropping the shields and going with USEM or USEMosis is the way to go.
Post by: willng3 on May 13, 2011, 05:44:38 am
In comparing my stats to willng3's... some may be due to a difference in play style, but I would guess the main difference is due to random variation (ex. My draws, opposing draws, elder matchups). His efficiency is much greater and I would guess this is due to a combination of him having a more powerful CPU (I play on a laptop) and a slight nerf to the speed of Hi AI Speed in the time that has past since he posted his.I had a bit of discussion about this today and I think I need to throw in my two cents.
I've concluded that a lot, if not all of it has to do with difference in play style/play experience. The marginal difference between our time per game is significantly greater between USEM and USEMosis which I would assume indicates you put more thought into each of your turns which is either because you needed to make more decisions regarding when and where to use Mitosis or you played more for EMs rather than game speed, with the former seeming to be the more logical explanation here.
As far as actual systematic time explanations goes, I always play on a laptop which means my CPU's power should not be noticeably greater than yours (and even then does not explain why the time difference was so much greater for USEMosis versus USEM especially considering how close the TTW values were between us). I have honestly never actually noticed this AI high speed nerf which people state took place. However, those who have noticed it have indicated that the AI high speed nerf took place before I recorded these stats for USEM as well as USEMosis, so that is not the explanation here; I also recorded the stats for USEM prior to USEMosis, so if anything there should be a much greater difference between our stats for USEM as well if this truly were the case.
Given that the results between our stats were not so different for USEM, I can only assume that the random variation for games played while testing for USEMosis were (or I suppose should have been) negligible in this scenario as well. While I'm not saying this is an impossible explanation, it seems highly unlikely.
Perhaps a better explanation for my reasoning: When I played Elements on Kong I had a recorded total of ~15,000 victories against AI3 with approximately 2/3 of those I know coming from USEM alone since I used it religiously during my obsessive score grinding phase (during which time I was collecting 1000+ AI3 victories a week for multiple weeks). I have since done dozens of TTW Studies which I would assume totals approximately 5-6000 additional games versus AI3. If anything, I would say that this concludes my play experience is greater, and therefore the time taken for each of my actions is substantially less as it is more of a reflex or impulse for each move rather than an actual thought in my case since I know this deck and its opponents far better than most others can claim. The differences between our statistics are exactly what I was referring to in my USEM versus USEMosis discussion.
Post by: kirchj33 on May 13, 2011, 11:08:08 pm
The differences between our statistics are exactly what I was referring to in my USEM versus USEMosis discussion.(I felt like I should quote something, but not the whole text)
I am assuming you mean this statement:
"Even though I managed to provide stats which support the fact that USEMosis makes more score/electrum per hour over the original USEM, I would still suggest using the older variation unless you are extremely experienced with AI3 grinding."
Not really sure I need to defend my experience here, but my ~3000ish games of USEM and ~1000ish games of USEMosis definitely pale in comparison the the number you have played. On the other hand, I am closing in on 400k score and have only played since mid-December, most of this of which has come from AI3 farming as well.
I feel like the actual strategy behind playing USEMosis requires no actual thought in developing after a couple hundred games. From that point forward, it is all instinctive (meaning you shouldn't encounter anything that actually slows you down to think through).
While you certainly are the USEM master, I don't think the difference in speed for USEM can be explained by experience or play style, where the deck play itself is mainly point and click. If we are truly playing with the same CPU capacity, I would say the difference would be that you are faster at maneuvering a mouse than me? While I don't claim to be the most adept clicker in the world, I doubt I fail to the point of a 2 second difference per game. I always get the mouse in place and ready to go before my turn hits. To me, there is obviously something else at play, which I believe still has to do mostly with a hardware difference. (my laptop is 4 years old?)
In reference to our difference in USEMosis stats, as stated before, this is my 4th time I've run the comparison and USEMosis has performed quite differently on each occasion. Once, I got the most rediculously efficient stats (sub 7.0 TTW, 83% EM), another time it underperformed USEM. I chose to post the latest one I did because I felt it was a good representation of the most common performance. Naturally, the makeup of USEMosis leads to much more variation in games. There are bad times you are stuck with two mitosis and no creatures, mitosis with not enough quanta to play/activate it, or there are glorious times you start with a bunch of quanta, a creature, and a mitosis to go crazy with while not hitting CC.
All in all, the difference between our posted stats is only a matter of a couple of seconds. The main point is that I wanted to reaffirm your original assertion that USEMosis is more efficient than USEM, supported by in-depth stats.
Post by: willng3 on May 14, 2011, 12:13:47 am
All in all, the difference between our posted stats is only a matter of a couple of seconds. The main point is that I wanted to reaffirm your original assertion that USEMosis is more efficient than USEM, supported by in-depth stats.Yes and I merely wished to convey an alternate explanation to what you had provided because there were a few explanations left unsolved in your analysis.
Clicking/mouse speed could be a plausible explanation I suppose, but I don't have access to your computer so I can't say, nor would I try to assume because there isn't enough evidence to support it, whether or not your system's speed is less than my own.
Yes, there is a clearly an amount of difference composed by luck when running a set of games for USEMosis, however from my experience there has never been such a significant difference between the time totals from my trial runs. This is why I said it was possible but unlikely; it goes against what I've seen firsthand.
*And for the record (because I seem to have come across this way in the past), no I'm not saying I don't trust your stats, no I'm not urging other people not to rely on your stats, no I'm not trying to come across as objective or critical of you just because you've posted information which attempts to contradict (even if insignificantly) my data, I'm simply trying to dig for answers because this peaks my curiosity.
Post by: kirchj33 on May 14, 2011, 12:21:39 am
*And for the record (because I seem to have come across this way in the past), no I'm not saying I don't trust your stats, no I'm not urging other people not to rely on your stats, no I'm not trying to come across as objective or critical of you just because you've posted information which attempts to contradict (even if insignificantly) my data, I'm simply trying to dig for answers because this peaks my curiosity.Agreed. I found it very interesting as well, which is why I thought it would be good to post the data. Thank you for posting this last bit, I did not think you were having any mal-intentions, but simply following your scientific curiosities. Big-ups.
Post by: Bootsza on May 30, 2011, 07:29:34 am
The change is 6 frogs and 4 cockatrice to make better use of the frog casting cost.
I have not run any systematic testing and I am not sure if it is worth it for such a small change but the speed difference has been noticeable (if only slightly) over 150+ games this weekend.
I also experimented with epinephrine, scorpions and dragons but without any improvement. I suspect this version is about as good as it is going to get in the current environment.
Post by: jmdt on June 01, 2011, 01:51:23 am
I made a slight tweak to USEMosis which seems to be slightly quicker:looks spiffy.
The change is 6 frogs and 4 cockatrice to make better use of the frog casting cost.
I have not run any systematic testing and I am not sure if it is worth it for such a small change but the speed difference has been noticeable (if only slightly) over 150+ games this weekend.
I also experimented with epinephrine, scorpions and dragons but without any improvement. I suspect this version is about as good as it is going to get in the current environment.
Post by: mrbarbarian on June 28, 2011, 07:13:01 am
Post by: Bootsza on June 28, 2011, 01:13:25 pm
However for a PvP competition with friends I would be looking for more in the way of rush options rather than heal options. Heals are great vs AI3 and EMs are what make the score gain really tick over but for PvP I would consider something else.
Post by: mrbarbarian on June 28, 2011, 01:37:58 pm
Post by: Bootsza on June 28, 2011, 01:43:57 pm
Post by: mrbarbarian on June 28, 2011, 04:31:06 pm
Post by: ryanaj on July 14, 2011, 12:31:32 pm
Post by: jmdt on July 14, 2011, 12:47:15 pm
heyy i was just wondering why put in life pend's and towers?It prevents earthquake from affecting the speed of the deck as much. When you are speed grinding, every turn makes a difference.
Post by: Xsshstex on July 31, 2011, 02:42:41 am
Post by: 10 men on July 31, 2011, 11:12:43 pm
Am I the only one who's never gotten a 4 TTW after 3000+ games played with this deck?Nope. ;) (And I've played a lot more than 3000)
It's just very very unlikely.
Post by: Higurashi on August 01, 2011, 03:20:02 pm
Post by: majofa on August 01, 2011, 04:03:21 pm
You'd have to go 2nd and have:
4 Emerald Towers, 3 Giant Frogs, and 1 Long Sword.
...then draw 3 Giant Frogs for your next 3 turns.
That will put your total damage at 104.
You go 2nd and your opening hand is:
4 Emerald Towers, 3 Giant Frogs, 1 Long Sword
(1)
You play the 4 Emerald Towers -> 1 Giant Frog, 1 Long Sword.
You end the turn with 2 cards (Giant Frog, Giant Frog) and 6 Life Quanta.
[You have in play 1 Giant Frog, 1 Long Sword] -> 11 damage -> 89 HP remaining.
(2)
You draw a Giant Frog.
You play 3 Giant Frogs.
You end the turn with 0 cards and 5 Life Quanta.
[You have in play 4 Giant Frogs, 1 Long Sword] -> 26 damage -> 63 HP remaining.
(3)
You draw a Giant Frog.
You play 1 Giant Frog.
You end the turn with 0 cards and 8 Life Quanta.
[You have in play 5 Giant Frogs, 1 Long Sword] -> 31 damage -> 32 HP remaining.
(4)
You draw a Giant Frog.
You play 1 Giant Frog.
You end the turn with 0 cards and 11 Life Quanta.
[YOu have in play 6 Giant Frogs, 1 Long Sword] -> 36 damage -> 0 HP (-4 HP) remaining.
Post by: 10 men on August 01, 2011, 05:39:02 pm
I think I actually got that draw a few times, but then the AI would usually drop some CC piece on me, frown.
Post by: Xsshstex on August 03, 2011, 02:33:48 am
Maybe...
Post by: Skikiki on March 09, 2012, 05:32:51 pm
Post by: Calindu on March 09, 2012, 05:47:50 pm
I don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but a problem with Jade staffs is that if they deliver the killing blow you won't get EM, even if you healed up before ending your turn.Nope, still can't see a Jade Staff in the deck.
Post by: Skikiki on March 13, 2012, 01:16:21 am
People were talking about adding them in, since they only do 2 less damage than the sword, and they usually guarantee that you'll only need 1 heal for EM.I don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but a problem with Jade staffs is that if they deliver the killing blow you won't get EM, even if you healed up before ending your turn.Nope, still can't see a Jade Staff in the deck.
On another note, has anyone tried adding in shards of divinity to increase the money gained from EMs? (It's based on health, right?)
Post by: kimham8a on March 13, 2012, 01:48:47 am
Post by: willng3 on March 13, 2012, 01:56:17 am
From my experiences with accidentally clicking on AI3 instead of Arena and using a deck filled with Shards of Divinity, I'd assume it would result in a reduced score/electrum gain per hour versus the current modifications. My reasoning is based on 1) 1-3 Shards of Divinity would increase your rewards very little after each duel, even with an EM, while simultaneously increasing the amount of time spent by each duel 2) Shard of Divinity does not heal you as it increases your maximum HP, meaning that a sizable portion of your deck would need to be devoted to Heals and SoD in order for you to receive the maximum effect from the HP increase 3) This change would require you to either remove damage dealers or Heals in order for it to grant the best effects, meaning that games would become slower or you would EM less on average as a result.People were talking about adding them in, since they only do 2 less damage than the sword, and they usually guarantee that you'll only need 1 heal for EM.I don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but a problem with Jade staffs is that if they deliver the killing blow you won't get EM, even if you healed up before ending your turn.Nope, still can't see a Jade Staff in the deck.
On another note, has anyone tried adding in shards of divinity to increase the money gained from EMs? (It's based on health, right?)
Post by: ARTHANASIOS on April 01, 2012, 12:05:22 am
I don't know if this has been mentioned yet, but a problem with Jade staffs is that if they deliver the killing blow you won't get EM, even if you healed up before ending your turn.I have the same problem. I have played a lot of farming games versus the AI level 3 with mono-life deck and every time the final blow was given by Jade Staff, you will actually not recieve an Elemental Master reception, even if your health is full (100 hp). This must be a bug, we may have to report it to the team.
Post by: avidteen13 on April 01, 2012, 12:08:57 am
The mostly unupped deck I have been using is
It doesn't have a ton of quanta at the start (slightly counter-intuitive, I know, but you usually get enough pillars to play cards as you draw them).
A mod I had been using was +1 Life Pendulum and -1 Heal. I had a great win/loss ratio; 84.6% were wins for only a little over 60 seconds per game. However, there were only 8 EM out of 39 plays, so I switched to the current version and maintained a decent win/loss ratio (95% Wins, 11 EM out of 20 matches.)
Post by: Higurashi on April 01, 2012, 12:20:25 am
Post by: avidteen13 on April 01, 2012, 12:26:54 am
Post by: Higurashi on April 01, 2012, 12:39:51 am
Post by: helltank on April 01, 2012, 10:20:13 am
From experience I know that simply spamming Adrenaline on Horned Frogs(Cockatrice not as effective because attack higher) can outrush any Elder deck... no need to Heal, I usually have at least 40 health left at the end.
Post by: pikachufan2164 on April 01, 2012, 11:17:07 am
Why do all the Mono Lifes have Heal in them?The Heals are there to get an EM at the end, as your electrum gain and score gain efficiency increases when you can EM quickly and reliably.
From experience I know that simply spamming Adrenaline on Horned Frogs(Cockatrice not as effective because attack higher) can outrush any Elder deck... no need to Heal, I usually have at least 40 health left at the end.
Post by: Retribution on April 14, 2012, 03:10:28 am
Post by: pikachufan2164 on April 14, 2012, 03:40:02 am
I know this deck is a bit outdated in terms of farming, but would you change this deck to incorporate jade staff since the EM bug was fixed?There already is a version with Jade Staves (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,10062.0.html), but it's not as efficient due to the speed lost from not using Longswords. Heals are generally more than enough to top off your HP for an EM.
Post by: Retribution on April 20, 2012, 05:00:52 am
-2 longswords
-2 heals
+2 jade staves
+2 elite cockatrices
Do you think this might throw quanta balance off...?
Post by: ARTHANASIOS on April 27, 2012, 09:28:09 pm
I'm thinking of using USEMitosis with
-2 longswords
-2 heals
+2 jade staves
+2 elite cockatrices
Do you think this might throw quanta balance off...?
The Longswords are needed as a 6 attack per turn for 1 quantum. That means they can be player right away, even if you have only 1 pillar/pendulum in your starting hand. The healing powers of the Jade staves is not very useful, since 6 Improved Heals are, most of the times, more than enough to grand you Elemental Mastery.
However, all the variations of an upped mono-life rusher does wonders in farming AI3, so your changes will also work. Personally, I love playing this deck with two Longbows instead of Longswords, in order to be able to penetrate Wings shields.
Post by: kimham8a on April 28, 2012, 03:36:19 am
Post by: ARTHANASIOS on April 28, 2012, 09:36:16 am
is this still worth using if i can win platinum about 40 percent after about 25 turns?
It depends in what you want. This deck is extremely fast and gains EM extremely easily against AI3. If gaining 40 :electrum per match doesn't seem appealing to you anymore, then you will still have a 80-90% win rate against AI3 (maybe even more than 90%, LOL!) and you will have a great increase in your win-loses score. So, if you consider it is a sure and safe way to gain a few :electrum AND lifting you score to new heights, then this is a really attractive deck! :D
Post by: kimham8a on April 29, 2012, 08:53:46 am
Post by: Jenkar on June 04, 2012, 12:55:24 pm
sorry i should have been more specific. I meant score/hour.depends on your hp finish. I'd say yes, usem is better for score.
Post by: Ilias22 on September 03, 2012, 12:35:20 pm
Post by: willng3 on September 03, 2012, 02:10:38 pm
It is really good deck but is this need 2 long swords?For max efficiency? Yes.
Post by: eaglgenes101 on September 03, 2012, 05:31:40 pm
It is really good deck but is this need 2 long swords?Increases the chance of getting one early. It's built for speed.
Post by: Elbirn on September 26, 2012, 03:22:11 am
Also, vaguely off topic, but can someone explain to me the logic behind having 2 weapons in a rush deck? I'm sure "draw efficiency" is the response, but..what if you draw both? Then you have a dead card. In this case, couldn't you swap one long sword out for... anything else?
Post by: furballdn on September 26, 2012, 03:27:21 am
Curious, is this deck still viable over 2 years later?Most likely yes. If unupped mono life does very good against AI3, a fully upped much faster one will most likely as well. 2 weapons is draw efficiency. If you do draw 2, you will have a dead card, but in most cases having 2 in the deck allows you the earlier chance of playing it, which makes it slightly faster than just having one. (Someone can probably do tests with 1 sword and 2 swords and compare the two).
Also, vaguely off topic, but can someone explain to me the logic behind having 2 weapons in a rush deck? I'm sure "draw efficiency" is the response, but..what if you draw both? Then you have a dead card. In this case, couldn't you swap one long sword out for... anything else?
Post by: Elbirn on September 26, 2012, 03:49:10 am
Post by: Polari on September 26, 2012, 10:26:30 am
The deck is still as viable as ever if you feel like playing it, the only "problem" is that arena lets you rack up your score incredibly fast, so in comparison this isn't very effective anymore. On the other hand, if you feel ever like farming rare spins, you can recycle most of the cards in this deck for a bronze farmer.