Orochi | Orochi [Legacy - Armory]

[OdinVanguard]

Eats a random smaller ally each turn? otherwise attacks you?

If it did that, then I would say it's probably just very very hungry ... lol

[ndclub]

This card grabbed my attention and met my guidelines for new cards:

1. Is it a unique idea? -> Though I havent seen every suggestion the act of sacrificing cards for attack is not seen very often and is done here in a somewhat simple manner.

2. Is it balanced?-> Hard to say but first impressions make me think so.

3. Does the game need it or would it benefit from having it?-> The amount of combinations I can see this having while at the same time not making current strategies obsolete actually makes me excited. Moderately fits the earth element I suppose but it has nearly my full support.

[OdinVanguard]

This card grabbed my attention and met my guidelines for new cards:

1. Is it a unique idea? -> Though I havent seen every suggestion the act of sacrificing cards for attack is not seen very often and is done here in a somewhat simple manner.

2. Is it balanced?-> Hard to say but first impressions make me think so.

3. Does the game need it or would it benefit from having it?-> The amount of combinations I can see this having while at the same time not making current strategies obsolete actually makes me excited. Moderately fits the earth element I suppose but it has nearly my full support.

Thematics aside, I agree with Ndclub. This card is mechanically quite unique. I really like the double edge sword like mechanic of having to sacrifice creatures to make it attack (or more accurately, to keep it from attacking you). It will provide a challenge for deck builders that wish to use it, but will also be a powerful asset to those who succeed. I think it would make a great addition to the game.

[Drake_XIV]

I could definitely see this more as a Darkness card or a Fire card, but this is an impressive mechanic nonetheless. I'm just imagining the interesting beneficial synergy this card would have.

Interesting overall, just questionable in Earth.

Yeah, but I like to keep some thematics from its origin, which is neither or .

[Drake_XIV]

And another card in the Forge!

[ARTHANASIOS]

And another card in the Forge!

Great work, dude!

[Vangelios]

Congratulations, I liked this idea, I think the card viable for the game, the mono earth does he combo with gnome,
but I agree with Arthanasios, Orochi is an evil entity, should be  .

[cometbah]

I don't think it is a good idea to design a card around a thematic origin. A card should be designed to fulfill a role in the game, and then a concept/entity that happens to be related to the mechanic can be chosen. I think you are hanging on a bit too much to the original inspiration, and not allowing the (very excellently designed) card mechanic to dictate what element it should belong in, what name it should have, and so on.

This definitely does not belong in  .  is a defensive Element - none of its creatures have more attack than defence (except for Shriekers), and certainly not one with more attack than cost. is an Element of stability, and Orochi's ability is a direct contradiction to this trait. The description of reads: 'Earth elementals have power over minerals, metals and terrestrial beings. Earth creatures have special skills that can be used for protection'. Orochi is not a being of mineral, metal, or of terrestrial origin (it is spiritual). Its ability is not protective.

More importantly, this does not fulfill a clear role in , as is not in need of another high-power creature (perhaps  needs one, though?).

The card mechanic itself, however, is very interesting. I can see synergies with quite a few Elements -  it could even be used as a 'healing serpent' with Antimatter!

Questions:

Is the creature flying?

Would it be correct to assume that it attacks through your own shield?

[choongmyoung]

Around meta, a creature worths (2 + creature cost) quanta. 
It means, it's like 8|7 cost 12 ATK creature with AT LEAST 2 quanta as upkeep. (actully if you think properly, it's even more expensive. Photon+Mitosis, Spark+Afla or Firefly Queen costs more than two pillars anyway)
I'd compare this with 6 ATK Wyrm(dive upkeep).

- Wyrm: cheaper upkeep(2). Buff goes double. If you don't pay, it deals 6 damage. Deals 6 damage in the first turn.
- Orochi: expensive upkeep(2+). Buff goes not double. If you don't pay, it deals 12 damage to yourself. Deals 12 damage to yourself in the first turn.

So I'd like to say this costs too much.
Currently Wyrm's attack is 3|5 and cost is 4. If its attack were 6|6, it would cost some quanta more.
Thus I suggest to reduce its cost to around 5|4 or so.

[Drake_XIV]

I explain my balance here.
http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,45002.0.html

[choongmyoung]

On a strict cost to stat basis, Orochi is an incredibly effective attacker, perhaps the most effective for its stat tier with 12 ATT for 8|7 .  However, there are a few things keeping this from strictly being overpowered and overshadowing fellow effective attackers like Shrieker, which has 8|10 ATT for 8 .

The one obvious thing here is Appease.  Each turn, you must sacrifice a creature on your side to ensure that Orochi attacks your opponent instead of turning around and attacking you instead.  So the card cost of the sacrifices goes into the cost of Orochi itself, and that's disregarding any cost of the Sacrifices themselves.

Another thing that sets this aside from other attackers is how Appease works.  On the first turn, due to the inability to use its ability on the first turn, if you have not taken proper precautions, Orochi can and will do damage to you once.  That is a guarantee.

So, cost balance.  At 12 ATT [ +12  ] and 8 HP [ +2  ], it can take some punishment and deals in kind, but Orochi's Appease considerably drops the cost.  With the initial 12 damage [ Compared to a negative weaker Heal, estimating -2  ] and assuming that Orochi will be used for on average 3 turns, there is card cost to consider [ Estimated to be -3 , excluding quanta cost of sacrifices].  As a neutral element,  grants only a HP boost [Graboid + Shrieker is an exception for thematics], so it justifies the 8 HP [ -1  ].  This leaves it at its current spot at 8 , 7  for upgraded.

I might be wrong, but I still think sacrificing 3 creatures worths 6+.
You estimated it will sacrifice 3 creatures during game. So let's think I played Orochi+Photon+Photon+Photon. Assume that there is no CC.
Whole damage done is (12 to yourself+1+1+1)+(12+1+1)+(12+1)+(12)=12 to yourself and 42 to opponent.
But if you have 4 equal creatures whose attack is 3, total damage is (2+2+2+2)+(2+2+2+2)+(2+2+2+2)+(2+2+2+2)=32 to opponent.
As you see, 4 equal creatures costs cheaper and works quite equal.

[Drake_XIV]

That 10 damage gap that makes it 'close.'  I'll address this later.

Anyways, I only deducted 3 due to card cost.  I even note that I am disregarding the playing cost of the sacrifices.  This is mainly because after a while, if you use Orochi, you're undoubtedly going to be able to set up a system where you don't have to pay as much.  At least in card cost, at least.

Also, methinks you made the wrong assumption with the sacrifices.  Orochi already is in-element with Gemfinder, which, along with providing sacrifices, will also help pay back the cost of Orochi.  In a straightforward set up, I fail to see why Gemfinders would not be the chosen sacrifice for Orochi, as you have chosen Photon in yours.

The playing cost was balanced according to how I believe people could abuse it.  I saw potential for abuse, so I raised the cost.