Breakdown | Breakdown [Legacy - Crucible]

[eaglgenes101]

Reset, can you give your opinion again?

[eaglgenes101]

Can someone explain why they consider this thing OP and what a good cost for it would be?

[whatifidogetcaught?]

It is OP because you can completely shut off every single one of the enemy's permanents every two turns. This means quanta production, weapon, and even their shield. The cost for this is my opinion would be insanely high. I am not good at balancing though, so I don't know about that.

[OdinVanguard]

At first I thought this was just permanents like mind gate and hourglass (e.g. activated abilities), which would have been fine... Messing with pillars and shields just seems way too strong.
If this card affected permanents for both players, then that would help... a little. Of course, you would still end up giving a major advantage nova / immo decks since they don't rely on pillars for quanta (nova/immo rushers don't really need the extra help at the moment... not saying they're overpowered, but they certainly aren't underpowered either).

If you take pillar stalling out, then this might be more feasible.

I would also say, that the delay shouldn't get applied till end of turn. Otherwise it seriously cripples shields of almost all kinds...

[eaglgenes101]

Best case scenario for Earthquake: Your opponent's deck does not rely on non-pillar sources, and the mark is for off-element things. You can play earthquake as the opponent plays pillars, severely choking off their quanta and preventing them from doing anything.

Best case scenario for Breakdown: Your opponent's deck is permanent based. You play breakdown on the 3rd turn, cutting quanta production in half. Later, time quanta accumulates quickly, and you can blast through your opponent's other permanents without much trouble.

Middle case scenario for Earthquake: Your opponent uses their mark for some things, but otherwise is pillar based. You can earthquake their towers a turn or 2 after they get out, but your opponent gets some things out anyway because of the gaps in denial.

Middle case scenario for Breakdown: Your opponent supplements their deck with many helpful permanents. You get out your breakdown on turn 6. By then, the opponent has gotten things out, and you have to deal with permanents that are, in effect, half there.

Anyone dispute these?

[russianspy1234]

Best case scenario for Earthquake: Your opponent's deck does not rely on non-pillar sources, and the mark is for off-element things. You can play earthquake as the opponent plays pillars, severely choking off their quanta and preventing them from doing anything.

Best case scenario for Breakdown: Your opponent's deck is permanent based. You play breakdown on the 3rd turn, cutting quanta production in half. Later, time quanta accumulates quickly, and you can blast through your opponent's other permanents without much trouble.

Middle case scenario for Earthquake: Your opponent uses their mark for some things, but otherwise is pillar based. You can earthquake their towers a turn or 2 after they get out, but your opponent gets some things out anyway because of the gaps in denial.

Middle case scenario for Breakdown: Your opponent supplements their deck with many helpful permanents. You get out your breakdown on turn 6. By then, the opponent has gotten things out, and you have to deal with permanents that are, in effect, half there.

Anyone dispute these?

definitely disputing the middle case.  if this card exists, im packing 6 of the upped version and getting it out by turn 3 most of the time.  at that point, my opponents quanta production is cut in 3, their shield is essentially null, and their weapon is barely relevant.  one advantage this has over earthquake is that pillars added to a delayed stack would still be delayed.  every deck that is pillar based is permanent based, this kills pretty much everything except immorush.  im pretty sure i could make a nice FG killer based on getting a protected one of these out...

[eaglgenes101]

I want to balance this card before it's shuttled to the crucible. Can people please hand me a balanced cost?

[ZephyrPhantom]

I would say it was okay if it wasn't for the fact I had the ability to effectively halve | remove my opponent's quantum production (considering this and Pest exist in the same Element as GoTP + Nightmare, I could theoretically convert a / Ghostmare into a really painful / lockdown rush deck that locks down almost all production if you don't have more than 10 pillars. Upgraded may be more expensive but your opponent might as well quit right there since he can't do anything for two turns.)

I would limit the ability to delay pillars, which would allow opponents to more effectively fight back against this with PC. (Mass delaying all nonpillar permanents and giving mass momentum against many of the shields ingame is still pretty powerful - stalls will lose most of their defensive measures since healing cards will have their effects cut in half, decks/Hourglass can only additional draw every other turn,etc...)

[eaglgenes101]

I would say it was okay if it wasn't for the fact I had the ability to effectively halve | remove my opponent's quantum production (considering this and Pest exist in the same Element as GoTP + Nightmare, I could theoretically convert a / Ghostmare into a really painful / lockdown rush deck that locks down almost all production if you don't have more than 10 pillars. Upgraded may be more expensive but your opponent might as well quit right there since he can't do anything for two turns.)

I would limit the ability to delay pillars, which would allow opponents to more effectively fight back against this with PC. (Mass delaying all nonpillar permanents and giving mass momentum against many of the shields ingame is still pretty powerful - stalls will lose most of their defensive measures since healing cards will have their effects cut in half, decks/Hourglass can only additional draw every other turn,etc...)

Now that the pillar halve thing has been pointed out, I want to incorporate it into this card without making it broken. Help?

[eaglgenes101]

Set up another poll to ask about balanced costs. Please vote!

[OdinVanguard]

With a high cost, it will be relegated to late game denial. At that point it should be okay since quanta denial becomes less potent as the game progresses.

[eaglgenes101]

With a high cost, it will be relegated to late game denial. At that point it should be okay since quanta denial becomes less potent as the game progresses.

And with too high a cost, it could end up UP becuase by the time one raises several time quanta, the game could already be over.