Project: The 13th Element

[OldTrees]

I am going to add Meme | Viral Thought and Psionist | Psion to the designed section.

I am also withdrawing Morale.

In addition I added a poll about Joy/Biofeedback.

New cards to discuss:

Dementia (alchemy)
     5|4
     Target creature or permanent (excluding pillars) has a 30% chance to delay itself for 3 turns whenever it attacks or uses a skill.

Mind Hunter
     3
     Stats: 2|2
     : Hypnosis: Use target creature's activated ability.
Mind Hunter (upped)
     2
     Stats: 3|3
     : Hypnosis: Use target creature's activated ability.

[ZephyrPhantom]

I would like Joy to stay if possible - it provides interesting synergy with Fractal and Mindgate and makes a cool little counter to Nightmare at the same time.

Does Mind Hunter cause a double-targeting issue, or will the target creature's activated ability target randomly in a case like Infect?

[OldTrees]

Does Mind Hunter cause a double-targeting issue, or will the target creature's activated ability target randomly in a case like Infect?

I think it would work like:

Click Hypnosis
   Quanta drained
   Target screens appear
   Cancel option appears
   Hypnosis no longer available this turn
Click Target
   Second Target Screens appear
   Second cumulative Cancel option appears
Click Target and Cancel (attempting a fast click bug)
   2nd target affected

I do not see multitargeting being a problem for creatures because you cannot use the ability twice and you are not refunded the quanta used.

However I may be wrong. Please double check.

[moomoose]

that makes sense for mind hunter- just for clarification, is the target's ability usable for more than one turn, only one turn, or more than one turn until another target is selected?

for dementia- does "uses a skill" include passives, or just activated?  ie if a graveyard has it, and a skeleton is produced after a creature dies, does that create an event in which dementia can be triggered? or is it just when say an hourglass is clicked?  if it includes the passives, a slight alteration of wording may be used along the lines of "Target creature or non-pillar permanent has a 30% chance to delay itself for 3 turns whenever it attacks, has its skill activated or triggered"

[ZephyrPhantom]

that makes sense for mind hunter- just for clarification, is the target's ability usable for more than one turn, only one turn, or more than one turn until another target is selected?

for dementia- does "uses a skill" include passives, or just activated?  ie if a graveyard has it, and a skeleton is produced after a creature dies, does that create an event in which dementia can be triggered? or is it just when say an hourglass is clicked?  if it includes the passives, a slight alteration of wording may be used along the lines of "Target creature or non-pillar permanent has a 30% chance to delay itself for 3 turns whenever it attacks, has its skill activated or triggered"

Dementia would probably include passives as well, unless that causes a problem with the card that I'm not aware of.

[moomoose]

ok well that just leaves the issue of cost- for comparison look at http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,2242.0.html

that spell: costs 2 | 1 , limited to creatures, guaranteed to work, twice the number of turns frozen, but also gives +20hp (semi-situational bonus)
this spell: costs 5 | 4 , not limited to creatures, works sub 1/3 of the time, half the number of turns frozen, does not alter stats

as a soft CC/PC i don't see why it would cost more than twice hard permanent CCs/PCs, even if it is applicable to both.

[Essence]

^^ This.  Let's raise it to 50%, hm?

[moomoose]

i suppose the % could be adjusted in combination with the quanta cost, but finding the right combination may be tricky

version 1: costs 4 | 3 , 50% success rate (maybe up the cost 1 each, actually, essentially what essence suggested. this is a toughy)

or

version 2: costs 3 | 2 , 30% success rate

would be my stab at it, assuming we are going to keep the number of turns the same, but increasing/decreasing the number of turns could also be used as a balancing point.  personally i think version 2 is a bit more interesting with the 30% chance 3 turns having a nice flow to it.

it may be a good idea to balance the nymph afterward, as it is obviously tied in to this spell

[moomoose]

another topic is what should replace morale and biofeedback? 

i think this could be an opportunity to either find a niche for mind to call its own by coming up with some new card ideas which didn't come up earlier, or bring back card ideas which barely didnt make it

[OldTrees]

another topic is what should replace morale and biofeedback? 

i think this could be an opportunity to either find a niche for mind to call its own by coming up with some new card ideas which didn't come up earlier, or bring back card ideas which barely didnt make it

Lets delay this until the other cards are defined and the missing niche stabilizes.

It looks like Biofeedback will also be removed but it could still end in a 3|3 tie

[moomoose]

just trying to spur some additional conversation, been rather slow the past few days, hasnt given me much to do lol

[Essence]

Can we all agree that Dementia should be 5 | 4 CC and work 50% of the time?  That seems to be where discussion died.  Is that just too complex of the problem for T13E team to wrap it's collective mind around?