Project: Tags for card ideas

[OldTrees]

I would like your help expanding the following list of tags that will be used in the Card Idea Database. Users will have a list of tags available when searching so tags can be fairly specific. The goal of this is to reduce the amount of similar card suggestions.

Quanta Effect
 Generate Quanta
 Consume Quanta
 Convert Quanta
 Deny Quanta
 Steal Quanta
 Quanta-Dependant

Damage and Destruction
 Instant Damage (creature)
 Instant Damage (player)
 Delayed Damage (creature)
 Delayed Damage (player)
 Poison (creature)
 Poison (player)
 Instant Kill (creature)
 Remove Permanent
 Steal Permanent
 Global Destruction

Reduce or Prevent Damage
 Reduce Damage (creature)
 Reduce Damage (player)
 Prevent Damage (creature)
 Prevent Damage (player)

Heal
 Instant Heal (creature)
 Instant Heal (player)
 Delayed Heal (creature)
 Delayed Heal (player)
 Remove Poison (creature)
 Remove Poison (player)
 Global Healing

Buff
 Increase Attack (creature)
 Increase HP (creature)
 Increase HP (player)
 Prevent Targeting (creature)
* Prevent Targeting (permanent)
 Prevent Targeting (player)
 Gain Ability
 Global Buff

Debuff
 Decrease Attack (creature)
 Decrease HP (creature)
 Decrease HP (player)
 Remove or Replace Ability
 Disable Creature
* Disable Permanent
 Sacrifice Creature
 Global Debuff

Generate
 Generate a Creature (Original)
* Copy a Creature (Current)
 Transform a Creature
 Generate a Permanent (Original)
* Copy a Permanent (Current)
* Generate a Card


Hand and Deck Mechanics
 Draw a card
* Generate a Card
 Affect the Hand
 Affect the Deck
 Affect the ability to play cards

*added

[Hyroen]

It's a good, broad list. Codes for each of them will help:

Quanta Effect
[+Q] Generate Quanta
[-Q] Consume Quanta
[~Q] Convert Quanta
[#Q] Deny Quanta
[<Q] Steal Quanta
[*Q] Quanta-Dependant

Damage and Destruction
[iC/] Instant Damage (creature)
[iP/] Instant Damage (player)
[dC/] Delayed Damage (creature)
[dP/] Delayed Damage (player)
[Inf] Poison (creature)
[psn] Poison (player)
[-C] Instant Kill (creature)
[-per] Remove Permanent
[<per] Steal Permanent
[-!] Global Destruction

Reduce or Prevent Damage
[-C/] Reduce Damage (creature)
[-P/] Reduce Damage (player)
[#C/] Prevent Damage (creature)
[#P/] Prevent Damage (player)

Heal
[iC^] Instant Heal (creature)
[iP^] Instant Heal (player)
[dC^] Delayed Heal (creature)
[dP^] Delayed Heal (player)
[-Inf] Remove Poison (creature)
[-psn] Remove Poison (player)
[^!] Global Healing

Buff
[+ATK] Increase Attack (creature)
[+Chp] Increase HP (creature)
[+Php] Increase HP (player)
[#C@] Prevent Targeting (creature)
[#P@] Prevent Targeting (player)
[+ab] Gain Ability
[buf!] Global Buff

Debuff
[-ATK] Decrease Attack (creature)
[-Chp] Decrease HP (creature)
[-Php] Decrease HP (player)
[-ab] or [~ab] Remove or Replace Ability
[#C]Disable Creature
[XC]Sacrifice Creature
[deb!]Global Debuff

Generate
[+C] Generate a Creature
[~C] Transform a Creature
[+per] Generate a Permanent

Hand and Deck Mechanics
[+▯] Draw a card
[~H] Affect the Hand
[~D] Affect the Deck
[~] Affect the ability to play cards
Any thoughts?

[Xenocidius]

This project will be considered complete when there is no card that we can think of, in-game or as an idea, whose ability cannot be classified by these tags.

Some cards that cannot be classified:

• Parallel Universe (could be generate a creature, but there should really be a Copy Creature)
• Rematerialize (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,19461) (could be Generate a Permanent, but there should really be a Copy Permanent (by the way, this would make Steal Permanent redundant, as stealing is basically copying then destroying a permanent))
• Mindgate
• Fractal
• Protect Artifact (Need Prevent Targeting (permanent))
• Reflective Shield (Does this fall under Prevent Targeting (player)?)
• Thunderbird (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,7206) (need Disable Permanent)
• Enchantress (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,7983) (it could be classified by Delayed Damage and Prevent Damage, but is that too vague?)

All these tags must be able to stand the test of time. Once we introduce this system, we can add new tags sparingly, but we cannot change existing ones. This means we have to get it right the first time.

I would personally have a list of mechanics without targets (Instant Heal (player) and Instant Heal (creature) would be the same mechanic), but the target is instead added at the end of the tag. For example, Prevent Targeting may become [#@]; Prevent Targeting (creature) might be [#@C], Prevent Targeting (permanent) might be [#@P], Prevent Targeting (player) might be [#@E] (the E is for Elemental).

Note that searches are not case-sensitive, so using 'p' for permanent and 'P' for player would not work.

[OldTrees]

Mindgate and Fractal are Generate a Card (now added).
The difference between Copy and Generate is Copy takes the current while Generate takes the original. As such Copy a Card does not exist yet.

I think Reflective Shield falls under prevent targeting player. However the reflect part might also warrant a tag. Thoughts?

[Xenocidius]

Copy a Card must still be a tag, because someone may make a card idea about it (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,29892) in time.

Also, what about things like Voodoo Doll?

[OldTrees]

Copy a Card must still be a tag, because someone may make a card idea about it (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,29892) in time.

Also, what about things like Voodoo Doll?

Until cards can have differing current and original states, there is no difference between generate and copy.

Things like Voodoo Doll should have a tag. The question is what do things like Voodoo Doll have in common and what would the tag be.

[Xenocidius]

Ah, sorry, I read your post wrong.

Voodoo Doll can be seen as Delayed Damage ... but it also has another aspect, namely 'Damage Deterrent' (it deters the opponent from damaging it). Whether this is worth an additional tag or can be incorporated into Reduce Damage (creature) ...

This made me think of having two parts to each tag: an effect and a trigger.

For example:

Voodoo Doll - Trigger: Self Damaged; Effect: Deal Damage (player)
Fractal - Trigger: Target Creature; Effect: Generate Card
Ghost of the Past - Trigger: Discard; Effect: Deal Damage (player)

However, then I feel it might be too complex ... I can incorporate these tags into the Opening Post Creator so that users don't have to manually construct the tags, but not everybody uses it; in other words, the user must be able to manually construct the tags, and they should be able to do so without much/any expertise in card design.

[EmeraldTiger]

NAME: ***Insert name*** ELEMENT: ***Insert element*** COST: ***Insert cost*** TYPE: ***Insert type*** ATK|HP: ***Insert att|hp*** TEXT: ***Insert card text***	NAME: ***Insert name (upgraded)*** ELEMENT: ***Insert element (upgraded)*** COST: ***Insert cost (upgraded)*** TYPE: ***Insert type (upgraded)*** ATK|HP: ***Insert att|hp (upgraded)*** TEXT: ***Insert card text (upgraded)***

ART: ***Insert artist name*** IDEA: ***Insert card maker name*** NOTES: ***Insert additional information*** TAGS: ***Insert Idea Tags*** SERIES: ***Insert series name and link to series page (if any)***

Will this change to the table be needed?

[OldTrees]

Anti-Creature Control (tag?, tag category?, renamed?)

Triggers might be wise as a separate set of tags

@ET Questions like that will have to wait until SG returns.

[The_Mormegil]

Criticism:

The aesthetic value of tags is somewhat... bad. Also, it will force people to submit card ideas with a new, more difficult format. It will result in arguments as to "what tags should this have" and more work for Curators. I'd personally prefer a more subtle change, such as the tag line addition in the table along with Hyroen's code to generate very specific searches while still being very readable and having a normal title. I'm not sure as to what to do for the possible discussions and the Curator work. Maybe keep it as a simple add-on to card ideas, completely voluntary?

Furthermore, the purpose of this project is to limit the similar card concepts. This is all good and well, but the problem is not (or rather not just) the inability to search the boards for similar concepts, it's the fact that nobody does. To hinder the popular concepts from being introduced in the polls, you should have a filter to card ideas. But how would you rule a card concept that has been repeatedly in the polls in the past but is now in the Archives? Or a card that is near-identical to another, but in a different element, with a different flavor, is part of a serie, or any other number of possibilities? Also, the popular vote has insofar been acting as the "filter" I am talking about. Are we going to introduce a sort of jury (be it Curators or anyone else, it will still be a sort of jury) to judge the ideas preemptively and decide whether or not they are different enough? Are we going to count on simple suggestions and gentle reminders to card creators? If this is the case, what difference is there between having the tags and not having them? The card owner will see the card eventually and comment on it (which is what is happening now).

I'm skeptical of the actual utility of this project. Can you convince me of its effectiveness?

[OldTrees]

The Card Idea database is meant to be a tool to aid someone when searching through the overwhelming number of past poll cards. Searching past cards is useful for more than just preventing copying. It allows people to see patterns and gaps in previous creative thought and to use previous ideas as a starting place to improve their ideas. The Card Idea database (whether as a separate tool or as part of the forum search) would make these searches easier and encouraging people to search through past ideas.

The original plan, suggested by curators, calls for all the cards to be entered into a separate tool by staff with the corresponding tags. Authors could help by providing what they thought were accurate tags but that would be completely voluntary.

This is meant in part to reduce similar card concepts. By making searching easier and making it have a new exciting tool it will encourage people to search more. The problem/task of implementing a fair filter (even in the form of the community popular vote) will still exist but the instances might be fewer. It would be a good idea to once again make a focused effort to encourage searching similar to the effort that was made to discourage stealing art.

[Hyroen]

Also, while searching for a commonly used name which happens due to recurring niches within elements, no real problems exist aside from people not initially searching.

The tag system will help to eliminate unintended remakes of suggested card functions, and assuredly there may be card ideas that will have no existing tag, for which we could assign a simple and temporary "Other" tag, [Othr]. The "Other" tag would serve as a catch-all temporary substitute until a better more descriptive tag is made.

Creativity can be boundless and I feel as though Zanzarino may invest some time in creating a display system that will allow to see longer card descriptions such as needed for the legendary kael-cards. If this is to happen which I think will not be soon, but a possibility, the tag system will still serve a purpose but will have a much more daunting task.

For now, as long as the space permits a highly limited amount of characters, a highly limited amount of card concepts can come about and the tag system can serve a more efficient purpose.