[Study] Can EtG's Cardpool handle more TRUE Vanilla Creatures?

[ZephyrPhantom]

Imagine that Horned Frog | Giant Frog doesn't exist. Then, it is added to the game. Can you create something that has that kind of impact, with such a simple design?

Like any card game, Elements originally used vanilla cards to build up its card base and fill major roles that may have not been practical for ability creatures to fill.

In the present, however, most Elements have a fairly solid card base where introducing vanilla creatures would be difficult without causing redundancy. One current example of this problem is Massive Dragon, which is typically impractical in terms of ATK vs Chargers and impractical in terms of HP-Catapult fodder vs. Armagio/Titan.

Is it still possible to introduce a completely vanilla creature into the game without causing such design redundancy? Please note that to be completely vanilla, the creature cannot have any abilities whatsoever (active and/or passive).

[Naesala]

Let's look at how vanilla creatures can be used real quick:

1. To expand the total card base. Done, with 1 creature + 1 dragon per element, roughly.
2. As damage dealers in mono-decks. Done, with the above.
3. To add more variety simplistically.

What could be different about a vanilla creature? The only thing than can be altered are health, attack, and cost. Unique combinations for this are limited, even more so with creative unique combinations.

Vanilla All attack no health is covered by spark
Vanilla all health no attack is near useless in elements, and would only possibly be good as catapult fodder.
Vanilla creatures as more cost efficient attackers, covered in a number of ways but mainly life's Cockatrice and Frog
Vanilla creatures as "sturdy" (out of Lightning range) attackers for a low cost, covered by Graviton Mercs
Vanilla creatures as a strong quanta sink, dragons.
Vanilla creatures for free, spark and the mostly vanilla Photon/RoL (vanilla before upping)
We also have pseudo-vanilla extremely cheap creatures (the living towers, as it were)

What does this leave? Well, we can make an all HP vanilla creature that's cheap for Gravity to have some fun with, that'd have to be able to compete with in-element Armagio/Titan and strong-synergy voodoo doll. We could make more 1 drop creatures with slightly better stats, but they couldn't outshine or be worse than Frog else they'd be criticized, and if they're roughly the same, then redundant. Besides, many decks usually have a surplus, barring certain rainbows or fighting a denial deck. We could go even further than dragons for even bigger quanta sinks, but this would essentially be another cycle where some outshine others and most are only somewhat useful; they could also boost the power of OTKs.

TLDR; The only things left are super saiyan 2 dragons and a rock.

[CleanOnion]

This is just an undeveloped idea - really, it's not much of an idea at all - but what about vanilla creatures that aren't in the Bazaar? For example, a Pharoah-type card where the Scarabs aren't in the Bazaar but the Pharoah is.

Eg
Summoner | Summoner
1-2 | 1-2
: Target a pillar and produce an elemental creature of that element

The creature would be vanilla, and there would be 13 - one for each pillar (26 including upgrades). That's 13 vanilla creatures that don't add to the cardbase. Thoughts?

[ZephyrPhantom]

This is just an undeveloped idea - really, it's not much of an idea at all - but what about vanilla creatures that aren't in the Bazaar? For example, a Pharoah-type card where the Scarabs aren't in the Bazaar but the Pharoah is.

Eg
Summoner | Summoner
1-2 | 1-2
: Target a pillar and produce an elemental creature of that element

The creature would be vanilla, and there would be 13 - one for each pillar (26 including upgrades). That's 13 vanilla creatures that don't add to the cardbase. Thoughts?

While the example card in question might conflict with Nymph Queen a bit, I see what you're getting at.  The cards are more token-esque in nature this way but it's still a good use of vanilla as a concept.

[serprex]

5|7 / 7|7 for 5 Gives Life a non-dragon creature that's durable
7|3 / 7|5 for 6 Gives Air an affordable midhitter that doesn't require upkeep, stats lower than other elements because SoFr (or is airborne not vanilla? That's a bit restrictive. In which case this could have better stats & be air's non-airborne creature)
5|0 / 6|0 for 1 enables a fast nightfall rush (darkness generally lacking speedy options)
5|2 / 7|2 for 4 allows a more fire heavy immorush compared to golem, or non-immo less dommy mono fire

[andretimpa]

imo the problem with colossal is less that it is a vanilla and more that the game has few uses for HP (plus a needed cost reduction). It should fill the spot of having more attack and health than a charger for 2 maybe 3 more quanta (not 5). This is pretty much why stone dragon is also underused, you are paying extra for HP in a game that doesn't value HP.

[AD TienzuStorm]

Hm. It might be worth having a future CP be around giving HP more value.. But that's not the topic.

I personally have to agree with Nae, almost all vanilla roles have been made and even if they haven't, they're taken in the form of creatures with weaker abilities or pseudo abilities (like Light's upped mid hitter is taken by Archangel, while Time's mid hitter in general is GotP).

Like, where could we even fit a vanilla creature in the card base we have now? Maybe an Abomination style creature for Light (unupped mid hitter, upped cost efficient little minion), but there aren't many other potentially possible places for more creatures that don't have a reason for existing other than "filling up the card base".

Really the only place to try and get them in is in the area above dragons, and I'm not particularly fond of the idea.

[Linkcat]

5|7 / 7|7 for 5 Gives Life a non-dragon creature that's durable
7|3 / 7|5 for 6 Gives Air an affordable midhitter that doesn't require upkeep, stats lower than other elements because SoFr (or is airborne not vanilla? That's a bit restrictive. In which case this could have better stats & be air's non-airborne creature)
5|0 / 6|0 for 1 enables a fast nightfall rush (darkness generally lacking speedy options)
5|2 / 7|2 for 4 allows a more fire heavy immorush compared to golem, or non-immo less dommy mono fire

This guy gets it.

Airborne is vanilla.

[ZephyrPhantom]

As a reminder:

Please note that to be completely vanilla, the creature cannot have any abilities whatsoever (active and/or passive).

This guy gets it.

Airborne is vanilla.

That's like saying a Normal Pendulum Monster with a spell effect is vanilla, IMHO. The moment it gains an an ability like that, it's "French vanilla" and is still an ability, even if it's not an active one. Having an ability defeats the idea of being vanilla IMHO.

(Compare: One could argue Pest without burrow/ in mono is "vanilla" because it only has a passive. However said passive is also the central part of using it and drastically changes how it is played.)

5|7 / 7|7 for 5 Gives Life a non-dragon creature that's durable
7|3 / 7|5 for 6 Gives Air an affordable midhitter that doesn't require upkeep, stats lower than other elements because SoFr (or is airborne not vanilla? That's a bit restrictive. In which case this could have better stats & be air's non-airborne creature)
5|0 / 6|0 for 1 enables a fast nightfall rush (darkness generally lacking speedy options)
5|2 / 7|2 for 4 allows a more fire heavy immorush compared to golem, or non-immo less dommy mono fire

could probably benefit more from a pseudovanilla card that had some sort of ability  - e.g. a 6 | 6 that could be sacrificed to disable a shield or something like that. I think we'd be wasting this card slot on a vanilla, if anything, given Life's already high amount of vanilla creatures.
Airborne would go against true vanilla, IMHO, for reasons stated above. And even if it was airborne, why would monoair want to use it? Dragonflies/Wyrms deploy faster.
This is the only one that I think actually has no redundancy or role issues.
- Fire-heavy/monofire immorush already has Phoenix which also fuels more Immos. Golem works fine because it drains excess that would otherwise typically go unused.

[andretimpa]

How about a non-vanilla that spawns vanilla creatures? Not the most original thing ever, but some elements might benefit from it.

[Treldon]

How about a non-vanilla that spawns vanilla creatures? Not the most original thing ever, but some elements might benefit from it.

Would the spawned creatures be existing vanilla ones or new cards?

[dragtom]

Nobody mentioned the possible indirect buff to luciferin.

I think EtG will benefit from more vanilla creatures, as it gives more options for decks-
For example, you can have quanta to spare, but not enough for ghosts, and too much for déja vu...

Semi-vanilla (like GotP and skeleton) will be more interesting, though.