Post by: ZephyrPhantom on October 14, 2015, 12:03:34 pm
Greetings, Elementals!
So for quite a while now, we've had quite an amount of interest in the nature of Hybrid cards - these cards belong to two elements of A and B. What makes a hybrid card special is that it can be paid for by using any combination of the two elements it hails from - for example, a card that costs 6 [:light / :darkness] can be paid with 6 :light , 3 :light 3 :darkness , or 6 :darkness !
On the flipside, though, we haven't had a focused attempt to flesh out the Hybrids for a while now until a few threads posted in Design Theory by EmeraldTiger, which frankly could use a bit more a kick into high gear: this thread aims to streamline hybrid discussion into a project compact enough to create a Cygnia card set while maintaining a size small enough so that it won't trip over itself like the Slot Manipulation Project did.
To keep this on track, we've be following a compact schedule: each week, a Discussion/Submission Phase will occur in which a hybrid pair is discussed; I strongly encourage everyone to submit one hybrid idea during this period of time that you feel best demonstrates the elemental combination in addition to discussion of the theme. The following week after that, the next Discussion Phase starts and the cards from the previous Discussion Phase are voted on during that week. Depending on the number of cards submitted, I'd like to get 1-3 cards from each submission week into Cygnia, if possible - this means a minimum of 6 hybrid cards and a maximum of 18 hybrid cards.
As of right now, the 6 pairs have been randomized to the following:
:light :darkness
:entropy :gravity
:earth :air
:fire :water
:life :death
:time :aether
(Like all projects, this is an experimental concept and can either fall completely flat or go above and beyond. It's all up to you to determine which!)
Discussion/Submission Phase: So for quite a while now, we've had quite an amount of interest in the nature of Hybrid cards - these cards belong to two elements of A and B. What makes a hybrid card special is that it can be paid for by using any combination of the two elements it hails from - for example, a card that costs 6 [:light / :darkness] can be paid with 6 :light , 3 :light 3 :darkness , or 6 :darkness !
On the flipside, though, we haven't had a focused attempt to flesh out the Hybrids for a while now until a few threads posted in Design Theory by EmeraldTiger, which frankly could use a bit more a kick into high gear: this thread aims to streamline hybrid discussion into a project compact enough to create a Cygnia card set while maintaining a size small enough so that it won't trip over itself like the Slot Manipulation Project did.
To keep this on track, we've be following a compact schedule: each week, a Discussion/Submission Phase will occur in which a hybrid pair is discussed; I strongly encourage everyone to submit one hybrid idea during this period of time that you feel best demonstrates the elemental combination in addition to discussion of the theme. The following week after that, the next Discussion Phase starts and the cards from the previous Discussion Phase are voted on during that week. Depending on the number of cards submitted, I'd like to get 1-3 cards from each submission week into Cygnia, if possible - this means a minimum of 6 hybrid cards and a maximum of 18 hybrid cards.
As of right now, the 6 pairs have been randomized to the following:
:light :darkness
:entropy :gravity
:earth :air
:fire :water
:life :death
:time :aether
(Like all projects, this is an experimental concept and can either fall completely flat or go above and beyond. It's all up to you to determine which!)
Fire/Water - (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/Fierqua.png) FIERQUA (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/Fierqua.png)
Time's up!
Some things to consider:
- What do :fire and :water have in common in terms of mechanics?
- What can :fire and :water do together that neither element can do on their own?
- What do :fire and :water not share? How could someone put both together on a card?
VOTING Phase:
Earth/Air - (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/TeriesMark.png) TERIES (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/TeriesMark.png)
Time's up!
All cards have been compiled below. Vote for the ones that you feel are the best representation of combined Earth and Air!
Quote
Destructive Wings 6 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/TeriesMark.png) | 5 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/TeriesMark.png)
Permanent
Shield: Reduce damage by one.
Any Earth creature gains -0 | -1 when it hits.
Quote
Airborne Weapon 6 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/TeriesMark.png) | 5 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/TeriesMark.png)
5 | 5
3: Gain the skill of a random Elemental weapon.
Quote
Jump 3 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/TeriesMark.png) | 2 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/TeriesMark.png)
Spell
Target burrowed creature unburrows and deals double damage this turn, burrows after attack
Quote
Dormant Stone Demon | Stone Demon 6 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/TeriesMark.png) | 7 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/TeriesMark.png)
0 | 10 / 6 | 2
Unupped Text: :earth :earth: Erupt - Become a Stone Demon.
Upped Text: :air :air: Dive - Triple damage dealt this turn. After damage is dealt, become a Dormant Stone Demon.
Quote
Skyforge Scrap-Golem | Skyforge Junk Golem 3 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/TeriesMark.png) | 3 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/TeriesMark.png)
2 | 6 / 4 | 6
1 : Skyforge - Target golem or flown weapon gains flown stats of the next weapon its owner replaces.
Quote
Duststorm Shield 4 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/TeriesMark.png) | 3 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/TeriesMark.png)
Permanent
Shield: Opposing creatures have X% chance to deal half damage, where X is your current amount of :earth quanta. (max 40%)
Opposing creatures have X% chance to miss, where X is your current amount of :air quanta. (max 40%)
Quote
Skyiron Gauntlets | Skysteel Gauntlets 3 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/TeriesMark.png) | 5 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/TeriesMark.png)
Permanent
Unupped: Shield: Reduce damage by 1. Your weapons gain +1|+0 and are animated when replaced if they are not rare. 6 charges.
Upped: Shield: Reduce damage by 2. Your weapons gain +2|+0 and are animated when replaced if they are not rare. 6 charges.
Below are all the previous submissions we've had to this project!
Light/Darkness - (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DualityMark.png) DUALITY (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DualityMark.png)
Our top 3 voted cards were Eclipse Essence, Living Shadows, and Penumbra Edict! Thanks to all that voted.
Quote
Which Duality cards do you feel best represent Light and Darkness combined?Which Duality cards do you feel best represent Light and Darkness combined?
Shades of Grey
3 (12.5%)
Blinding Light
3 (12.5%)
Eclipse Essence
6 (25%)
Draining Purge
0 (0%)
Night and Day
0 (0%)
Living Shadows
4 (16.7%)
Bat Breeder
0 (0%)
Dual Shade
3 (12.5%)
Grip of Blood
1 (4.2%)
Penumbra Edict
4 (16.7%)
Our top 3 voted cards were Eclipse Essence, Living Shadows, and Penumbra Edict! Thanks to all that voted.
Quote
Shades of Grey 5 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DualityMark.png) | 4 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DualityMark.png)
Permanent
For 2 turns, opponent's quanta pools cannot have a greater quantity than any of your quanta pools.
Quote
Blinding Light | Glory 4 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DualityMark.png) | 4 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DualityMark.png)
Permanent
Unupped Text: Your :darkness creatures become invisible as long as there is a :light creature in an adjacent slot to their left or right.
Upped Text: Your :light creatures gain +2|+2 for each :darkness reature in an adjacent slot to their left or right.
Quote
Eclipse Essence 4 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DualityMark.png) | 3 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DualityMark.png)
Permanent
Whenever a creature generates :light , heal 1 HP.
Whenever a creature generates :darkness , your opponent loses 1 HP.
Quote
Draining Purge 3 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DualityMark.png) | 2 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DualityMark.png)
Spell
Drain 5 hp and remove all status effects from target creature.
Quote
Night | Night 4 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DualityMark.png) | 4 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DualityMark.png)
Permanents
Unupped Text:
:darkness :darkness :darkness: Target gains Siphon: it can take 2 HP from target creature to heal self.
:light: Flip to Day
Upgraded Text:
:darkness :darkness :darkness: Target gains Siphon: it can take 2 HP from target creature to heal self.
0: Flip to Day
Day | Day 4 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DualityMark.png) | 4 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DualityMark.png)
Permanents
Unupped Text:
:light :light :light: Target gains Share: it can give 2 HP from self to heal target creature
:darkness : Flip to Night
Upgraded Text:
:light :light :light: Target gains Share: it can give 2 HP from self to heal target creature
0: Flip to Night
Quote
Living Shadows 2 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DualityMark.png) | 2 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DualityMark.png)
Creature
0 | 2
Unupped Text:
Emerging:
Whenever you gain life, Living Shadows gains a third of that in ATK.
Upgraded Text:
Emerging:
Whenever you gain life, Living Shadows gains half of that in ATK.
Quote
Bat Breeder 4 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DualityMark.png) | 3 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DualityMark.png)
Creature
1 | 2
Whenever you generate :light or :darkness for the first time each turn, put a 1 | 1 Bat with Vampire into play.
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DualityMark.png)(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DualityMark.png), Sacrifice a Bat: Heal 5 HP.
Quote
Dual Shade 3 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DualityMark.png) | 4 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DualityMark.png)
Creature
2 | 5 / 2 | 6
If your :light is greater than your :darkness , generate :darkness , otherwise generate :light . Swap stats when quanta changes.
Quote
Grip of Blood | Grip of Vice 4 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DualityMark.png) | 3 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DualityMark.png)
Spell
Target creature gains Vampire and switches sides for 2 turns.
Quote
Penumbra Edict 6 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DualityMark.png) | 5 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DualityMark.png)
Permanent
When your opponent plays a creature, they take damage equal to its ATK.
Whe you play a creature, heal HP equal to its HP.
Entropy/Gravity - (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DissaMark.png) DISSA (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DissaMark.png)
Our top 3 cards were Dissa's Embrace, Quantum Collapse, and Quantum Glitch Mob! Congratulations!
Quote
What cards do you feel are the best representation of combined Entropy and Gravity?
Shifting Boson
2 (12.5%)
Dissa's Embrace
3 (18.8%)
Power Sink
0 (0%)
Meromorphic Overload
0 (0%)
Quantum Holomorphism
0 (0%)
Power Accretion
2 (12.5%)
Tilted Scale
0 (0%)
Order in Chaos
0 (0%)
Erratic Centrifuge
1 (6.3%)
Dissa Pendulum
2 (12.5%)
Quantum Collapse
3 (18.8%)
Quantum Glitch Mob | Micro Glitch Mob
3 (18.8%)
Our top 3 cards were Dissa's Embrace, Quantum Collapse, and Quantum Glitch Mob! Congratulations!
Quote
Shifting Boson | Chaos Boson 5 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DissaMark.png) | 1 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DissaMark.png)
0 | 20
Unupped text: Each turn, loses 1-6 HP to gain that much ATK.
Upped Text: Each turn, loses 1-6 HP to have a random creature lose the same amount of HP.
Quote
Dissa's Embrace 5 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DissaMark.png) | Dissa's Embrace 4 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DissaMark.png)
Target creature and a random creature in your possession combine to become a Dissan Chimera.
Notes: Both creatures are creatures in caster's possession.Dissan Chimera | Dissan Chimera
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DissaMark.png)(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DissaMark.png) Unstable: Gain up to +/-3 attack and gain up to +/-3 hit points. | (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DissaMark.png) Unstable: Gain up to +/-3 attack and gain up to +/-3 hit points.
Quote
Power Sink | Improved Power Sink 6 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DissaMark.png) | 7 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DissaMark.png)
Spell
Unupped text: Target creature siphons 1|0 from up to 8 creatures in the field with the most dispersed HPs among its creatures.
Upped Text: Target creature siphons 1|1 from up to 8 creatures in the field with the most dispersed HPs among its creatures.Powersink example:
You have a field of 5 unupgraded cockatrices (4 HP each), which yields an HP dispersion of 32.2
I have a purple dragon (5 HP) and an armagio (25 HP), which yields an HP dispersion of 13.5
--This makes sense, the hp on the field of cockatrices is evenly distributed among all 5 creatures while on the other field most of the HP is concentrated in the armagio, hence the lower score even though there are more total HPs.
I cast Power Sink on my armagio.
Since your field has more dispersed HPs, the 1|0 gets siphoned from each of your cockatrices and given to my armagio.
You now have 5 3|4 creatures while I now have a 10|5 and a 6|25.
Note that power sink favors players keeping most of their stats concentrated, so despite its potential power, it is easily countered by RT.
Similarly, Power Sink is a good 'soft counter' to mass CC since mass CC will tend to thin out massess of low HP creatures, leaving the HP more concentrated in a handful of survivors.
Quote
Meromorphic Overload ??? (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DissaMark.png) | ??? (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DissaMark.png)
Spell
Target weapon siphons 1|0 from all creatures in the field with the least dispersed HPs.
It will self destruct on hit.
Quote
Quantum Holomorphism ??? (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DissaMark.png) | ??? (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DissaMark.png)
Spell
Redistribute your quanta to match the distribution of card costs in your hand and deck, rounding up.
Quote
Power Accretion ??? (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DissaMark.png) | ??? (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DissaMark.png)
Spell
Target creature siphons 1|1 from all other creatures each turn. It becomes a nova when either ATK or HP exceeds 30.
Quote
Tilted Scale
4 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DissaMark.png)
Randomly inflicts either Gravity Pull or Chaos Seed on a creature each turn.
1 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DissaMark.png) : Tilt
Shifts the current scale bias to the opposite option. Starts in Gravity Pull.
Slanted Scale
5 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DissaMark.png)
Randomly inflicts either Overdrive or Chaos Power on a creature each turn..
1 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DissaMark.png) : Tilt
Shifts the current scale bias to the opposite option. Starts in Overdrive.
Quote
Order in Chaos
5 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DissaMark.png) | 4 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DissaMark.png)
Permanent
As long as this permanent is in play, all Mutants are generated with Momentum in addition to mutant skills.
(Not included in the card: Yes, all Mutants, even your opponent's. Be careful of using this against Chaos Lord or another Mutation-happy player.
Forgot to add: Multiple Orders in Chaos does not stack.)
Quote
Erratic Centrifuge
5 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DissaMark.png) | 4 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DissaMark.png)
Permanent
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DissaMark.png)(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DissaMark.png) : Inflicts a random creature on the field with Gravity Pull. Repeatable.
Quote
Dissa Pendulum
Alternately generates :entropy and :gravity.
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DissaMark.png): Stabilize - This pendulum's stack remains on its current element this turn.
(Upgraded: Same text + "Gain 1 extra :entropy or :gravity when you play this card.")
(This card stacks like a normal Pendulum + you can run as many copies as you want.)
Quote
Quantum Collapse
3 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DissaMark.png) | 2 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DissaMark.png)
Spell
All of target player's quanta is randomly converted to one type
Notes(I don't know how much would actually fit, though cygnia cards have more space in them): The probability of a given quanta type to be the targeted one is proportional to the amount it is originally present.
So if I target my opponent and he has 3 :darkness, 5 :time and 2 :air, then it would be converted to
10 :darkness with 30% chance
10 :time with 50% chance
10 :air with 20% chance
any excess above 75, after the convertion is naturally discarded. Blocked by sanctuary when using against your opponent.
Quote
Quantum Glitch Mob | Micro Glitch Mob
6 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DissaMark.png) | 1 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DissaMark.png)
6 | 6 / 2 | 2
Split on owner quanta absorb or scramble during enemy turn. Gain +1|+1 per enemy scramble or absorb event.Splitting results in two new copies of the original card. The stats will each be one half of the original, rounded up.
Post by: Treldon on October 14, 2015, 01:56:55 pm
Some things to consider:
- What do :light and :darkness have in common in terms of mechanics?
- What can :light and :darkness do together that neither element can do on their own?
- What do :light and :darkness not share? How could someone put both together on a card?
In common: both elements are strong in quanta generation (RoL, Luciferin, Solar Shield, Devourer), in self healing (Miracle, Sanctuary, Holy Light, Luciferin, Vampire, Vampire Dagger, Liquid Shadow, Drain Life), they can manipulate max HP (SoD; SoV) and they can buff their creatures (Blessing; Nightfall)
Together: they can deny opponent's quanta and/or hand while protecting your own (Devourer/Nightmare + Sanctuary); give massive buffs to creatures (Eclipse + Blessing), self heal a lot
Put both on card: have quanta generating cards; pendulum-type card switching between Night-Day side with different effects (odd-even turn or switch on activation); creature that heals target by either giving it its (healer's) own health or the health of another target
Post by: EmeraldTiger on October 14, 2015, 03:14:05 pm
:darkness Darkness does Enemy manipulation
I don't know how well I used both elements here.
(http://i.imgur.com/vyvAOZG.png)
Out of all the opposites, I would like to portray the most internal conflict.
Post by: AD TienzuStorm on October 14, 2015, 03:49:21 pm
Light
- Taller element, higher stats for higher price (ex: Golden Dragon)
- Healing (seems to be more oriented towards creatures compared to Life's healing)
- Is the element that deals with max HP the most
- Mainly deals with own creatures, opponent's field is mostly unaffected
Darkness
- Bit wider as an element
- Vampiric is a unique feature
- Many effects of stealing (HP through vampires, NM, and Drain Life, quanta through Devs, permanents through Steal, etc.)
So, similarities would be:
- Healing
- Buffs
- Dealing with quanta (either through protection or stealing)
- Both have impressive quanta generation
Things together:
- Extremely high quanta generation
- Able to make the biggest difference in max HP (through lowering opponent's while raising own)
- Incredible healing
- Protection (Cloak, HP buffs, Sanct)
Don't share:
- Thievery
- Control (CC, PC, QC is only in Darkness)
pendulum-type card switching between Night-Day side with different effects (odd-even turn or switch on activation)
I like.
Post by: OdinVanguard on October 14, 2015, 05:05:30 pm
A candle shines brightest in the darkness.
I'm talking about thematics here, i.e. its a play off of darkness's inherent theme of subterfuge, and light's inherent theme of amplifying or bringing attention (light) to something.
An example:
(http://i.imgur.com/ylUVVSp.png) (http://i.imgur.com/J1Nbdrf.png)
E.g.
-Light creatures, effects, etc. get amplified / accentuated when more darkness is present
-The ability of darkness to hide / obscure is amplified when there is a strong light source. Or in another way, if you control where the light shines you can draw attention away from things you want to hide.
-- "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain" -Wizard of Oz
Post by: Espithel on October 14, 2015, 05:11:57 pm
It's a year old and pretty bad, but hey. I think we can make some use from it.
Post by: EmeraldTiger on October 14, 2015, 09:44:42 pm
Or
Do we want a creature, spell, weapon, shield and additional permanent?
(http://i.imgur.com/Pe1iyWu.png)
Post by: ZephyrPhantom on October 15, 2015, 05:13:54 am
Do we want a One of each card type?Due to the compact size of this project, I'm okay with at least one card of any kind for each hybrid pair for now. 1 creature/permanent/spell would be nice but isn't absolutely mandatory.
Or
Do we want a creature, spell, weapon, shield and additional permanent?
Quote from: Treldon
pendulum-type card switching between Night-Day side with different effects (odd-even turn or switch on activation);This idea in particular interests me. I'm going to be pondering a design for it.
....I think this idea is promising and should be looked into, though the forced slot-manuevering of :light and :darkness creatures on the current is a bit awkward. Perhaps healing for each :light creature and randomly cloaking an ally creature for 1 turn each turn for each :darkness creature? Come to think of it, remixing Espithel's idea might be worth looking at, too, something like:
I'm talking about thematics here, i.e. its a play off of darkness's inherent theme of subterfuge, and light's inherent theme of amplifying or bringing attention (light) to something.
An example:
....
Quote
Eclipse Essence 4 [:light/ :darkness]
Whenever a creature generates :light , heal 1 HP.
Whenever a creature generates :darkness , your opponent loses 1 HP.
Lastly, I'd like to post this old dinosaur I made a long time ago as a possible example:
(http://i1074.photobucket.com/albums/w403/ZephyrPhantom/My%20Album/elements_DPB3_zpscfpetwmz.png)(http://i1074.photobucket.com/albums/w403/ZephyrPhantom/My%20Album/elements_DPBE3_zpsqz97fssc.png)
Post by: Treldon on October 15, 2015, 04:57:06 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/xGEq3KL.png) (http://i.imgur.com/GXkK9Ru.png) | (http://i.imgur.com/9CFHu3p.png) (http://i.imgur.com/wyEpDze.png) |
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Post by: Espithel on October 15, 2015, 05:56:05 pm
Here's a highly experimental pendulum-style/flip card I've mentioned
(http://i.imgur.com/GXkK9Ru.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/wyEpDze.png)
Night Duality [Darkness - Light] 4 (http://i.imgur.com/wRwhoNB.png) Permanent :darkness :darkness :darkness: Target gains
Siphon: it can take2 HP
from target creature to heal self
:light: Flip to Day
Night Duality [Darkness - Light] 4 (http://i.imgur.com/wRwhoNB.png) Permanent :darkness :darkness :darkness: Target gains
Siphon: it can take2 HP
from target creature to heal self
: Flip to Day
Day Duality [Darkness - Light] 4 (http://i.imgur.com/wRwhoNB.png) Permanent :light :light :light: Target gains
Share: it can give 2 HP
from self to heal target creature
:darkness : Flip to Night
Day Duality [Darkness - Light] 4 (http://i.imgur.com/wRwhoNB.png) Permanent :light :light :light: Target gains
Share: it can give 2 HP
from self to heal target creature
: Flip to Night
- Treldon Upgrade order: left to right
Swithcing order: downwards
Siphon | Share will cost :darkness :darkness | :light :light for the creatures
(also, I think that the current Duality background just does not match either element with all that red and yellow, so I used a B&W version(http://i.imgur.com/wRwhoNB.png)Duality experiments(http://i.imgur.com/wRwhoNB.png)
Why would you ever flip that card to day?
Regardless, here's another small concoction of mine.
(http://i.imgur.com/Zzfb9hf.png) | (http://i.imgur.com/pH0N91K.png) | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Post by: Treldon on October 15, 2015, 06:53:39 pm
Why would you ever flip that card to day?
Uhm...yeah. I concentrated on the mechanic of flipping and forgot that Share is pretty much useless with Siphon...
Post by: OdinVanguard on October 16, 2015, 12:47:04 am
I think this idea is promising and should be looked into, though the forced slot-manuevering of :light and :darkness creatures on the current is a bit awkward. Perhaps healing for each :light creature and randomly cloaking an ally creature for 1 turn each turn for each :darkness creature?That could certainly work too. I was mainly trying to illustrate having :light amplify :darkness's ability to misdirect while :darkness amplifies the effective intensity of :light
Post by: ZephyrPhantom on October 16, 2015, 11:53:36 am
A) capable of having two distinct functions (one :light , one :darkness )
B) changing its form/function manually (e.g. by a :light or :darkness triggered ability)
C) changing its form/function relative to life or quanta gain (something both :light and :darkness have)
Which implementations do you guys feel are viable? I personally feel all three are plausible if done right, though C appears to be a bit more graceful than A or B.
Here's another design I've whipped up based on continued discussion. Any thoughts on this one?
Quote
Bat Breeder 4 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DualityMark.png) | 3 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DualityMark.png)
Whenever you generate :light or :darkness for the first time each turn, put a 1/1 Bat with Vampire into play.
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DualityMark.png)(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DualityMark.png), Sacrifice a Bat: Heal 5 HP.
1/2
Post by: EmeraldTiger on October 16, 2015, 03:27:03 pm
Dual Shade Duality 3 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DualityMark.png) Creature 2 | 5 If your :light is greater than your :darkness , generate :darkness , otherwise generate :light . Swap stats when quanta changes.
Dual Shade Duality 4 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DualityMark.png) Creature 2 | 6 If your :light is greater than your :darkness, generate :darkness, otherwise generate :light . Swap stats when quanta changes.
EmeraldTiger
Post by: OdinVanguard on October 16, 2015, 09:13:04 pm
E.g. The card has a :light like effect on play and a :darkness like effect on death. Thematically this is like having a light turn on when the card is played / in play, and leaving behind a void / darkness when it leaves play / is destroyed / dies.
A similar mechanical theme could also extend nicely in the :life / :death hybrid as well.
Post by: ZephyrPhantom on October 17, 2015, 07:30:59 am
Post by: Zawadx on October 17, 2015, 04:45:36 pm
As for Z's questions:
Light and Darkness have in common the ability to disregard their opponent's strategy, at least thematically. Darkness steals all their opponent has and makes their plans futile (exemplified by Devourer, Vampires, Steal, nightmare), while Light simply develops its own powerful plan and has all the tools to stop his opponent from mattering too much (Hope and Miracle along with powerhouse creatures are what I'm thinking). Max HP manipulation, buffs, quanta generation and healing are also strong overlaps.
Together they boast a huge number of duos (Siphonary, VDagger, Dark Domin) which all feature the style I mentioned above of not caring what the opponent has since their base is so strong. So I'd say that the facet of Domination is what they do best together.
Light and Darkness's common strengths actually feature directly opposite mechanics with same underlying implications. See SoV against SoD, Devourer vs Solar Shield (One prevents opponent's offense for quanta, other uses offense for quanta), VDagger vs Miracle (steady cheap healing vs expensive burst healing). So Conflict seems like a proper theme.
One can also take inspiration from the art for the Duality mark, which kind of looks like a hand of darkness taking over the sigil of darkness. A card representing this Grip would be a good idea.
What about: Grip of Blood | Grip of Vice (Cost 4/3 Duality, cost is so low due to the temporary nature of the effect)
Target creature gains Vampire and switches sides for 2 turns
Has the giving nature of light if used on own creatures, and the stealing mischief of darkness when used on opponent's creatures. Might make a potent stall strategy where you steal opponent's attackers to heal up, and then send them back with antimatter. Or maybe it can be used just standalone in darkness/light monos to further help their strategy of being above the opponent's strategy.
If we don't go with the conflict/grip theme, periodic/pendulum like might also be a good theme. But that's a difficult theme since light/darkness have no cards of their own which emphasize time. To me they feel to embody the inevitable instead.
Other ideas are Light and Shadow (maybe play on Wave Interference which is characteristic of EtG's style) and Moonshine/Twilight as a misture of Light and Darkness. Phases of the moon might also be a good theme to represent their cycle. Although cycle might be a better concept for life/death or time/aether
Post by: EmeraldTiger on October 17, 2015, 04:57:48 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/fiXHh5Z.png)(http://i.imgur.com/vyvAOZG.png)(http://i.imgur.com/ylUVVSp.png)(http://i.imgur.com/Zzfb9hf.png)(http://i.imgur.com/7zqONje.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/xGEq3KL.png)(http://i.imgur.com/GXkK9Ru.png)
Post by: ZephyrPhantom on October 17, 2015, 06:23:30 pm
Grip of Blood reminds me of MtG's Mark of Mutiny. I like it, though it feels like it could easily be a just a :darkness card - seems too easily to treat it as subterfuge if used on your own creature, especially if said creature is a Singularity or Antimatter'd.
Re: Transform, it's worth noting that Light and Darkness also dabble in augmentation of creatures (Blessing, Crusader, Liquid Shadow, Eclipse).
Perhaps a "stifling" card like would be a good implementation of pro-domination? Something like:
Quote
Penumbra Edict 6 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DualityMark.png) | 5 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DualityMark.png)
When your opponent plays a creature, they take damage equal to its ATK.
Whe you play a creature, heal HP equal to its HP.
Post by: EmeraldTiger on October 19, 2015, 03:12:03 am
Post by: ZephyrPhantom on October 19, 2015, 11:56:38 am
We should probably move on to the next one.It's worth considering, as we've drawn up a fairly detailed outline of Duality for future use:
Quote from: Duality Cards are typically one of the following:
A) capable of having two distinct functions (one :light , one :darkness )
B) changing form/function manually (e.g. by a :light or :darkness triggered ability) or relative to HP or quanta gain (something both :light and :darkness have). This can be relative to itself or other creatures/permanents/players.
C) Effective at manipulating a player's state of quanta/HP.
D) Supportive of domination-type strategies.
E) Disregarding the opponent's strategy while empowering their own.
If there are no objections to this outline, I'll be putting up a poll thread for the cards within the next 24-48 hours.
Post by: Espithel on October 20, 2015, 03:42:08 am
(May also want to include Noctilucence assuming Espithel wanted that converted to Duality.)
I do not. I merely brought it to everyone's attention to see if they can gain use from it.
Post by: ZephyrPhantom on October 22, 2015, 04:09:41 am
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DualityMark.png)
Voting has begun for Duality! [:light and :darkness] Vote for the cards that you feel are the best representative of the combination between :light and :darkness .Quote
Shades of Grey 5 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DualityMark.png) | 4 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DualityMark.png)
Permanent
For 2 turns, opponent's quanta pools cannot have a greater quantity than any of your quanta pools.
Quote
Blinding Light | Glory 4 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DualityMark.png) | 4 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DualityMark.png)
Permanent
Unupped Text: Your :darkness creatures become invisible as long as there is a :light creature in an adjacent slot to their left or right.
Upped Text: Your :light creatures gain +2|+2 for each :darkness reature in an adjacent slot to their left or right.
Quote
Eclipse Essence 4 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DualityMark.png) | 3 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DualityMark.png)
Permanent
Whenever a creature generates :light , heal 1 HP.
Whenever a creature generates :darkness , your opponent loses 1 HP.
Quote
Draining Purge 3 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DualityMark.png) | 2 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DualityMark.png)
Spell
Drain 5 hp and remove all status effects from target creature.
Quote
Night | Night 4 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DualityMark.png) | 4 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DualityMark.png)
Permanents
Unupped Text:
:darkness :darkness :darkness: Target gains Siphon: it can take 2 HP from target creature to heal self.
:light: Flip to Day
Upgraded Text:
:darkness :darkness :darkness: Target gains Siphon: it can take 2 HP from target creature to heal self.
0: Flip to Day
Day | Day 4 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DualityMark.png) | 4 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DualityMark.png)
Permanents
Unupped Text:
:light :light :light: Target gains Share: it can give 2 HP from self to heal target creature
:darkness : Flip to Night
Upgraded Text:
:light :light :light: Target gains Share: it can give 2 HP from self to heal target creature
0: Flip to Night
Quote
Living Shadows 2 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DualityMark.png) | 2 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DualityMark.png)
Creature
0 | 2
Unupped Text:
Emerging:
Whenever you gain life, Living Shadows gains a third of that in ATK.
Upgraded Text:
Emerging:
Whenever you gain life, Living Shadows gains half of that in ATK.
Quote
Bat Breeder 4 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DualityMark.png) | 3 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DualityMark.png)
Creature
1 | 2
Whenever you generate :light or :darkness for the first time each turn, put a 1 | 1 Bat with Vampire into play.
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DualityMark.png)(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DualityMark.png), Sacrifice a Bat: Heal 5 HP.
Quote
Dual Shade 3 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DualityMark.png) | 4 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DualityMark.png)
Creature
2 | 5 / 2 | 6
If your :light is greater than your :darkness , generate :darkness , otherwise generate :light . Swap stats when quanta changes.
Quote
Grip of Blood | Grip of Vice 4 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DualityMark.png) | 3 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DualityMark.png)
Spell
Target creature gains Vampire and switches sides for 2 turns.
Quote
Penumbra Edict 6 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DualityMark.png) | 5 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DualityMark.png)
Permanent
When your opponent plays a creature, they take damage equal to its ATK.
Whe you play a creature, heal HP equal to its HP.
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DissaMark.png)
In the meantime,Week 2 begins now with DISSA!
Discussion/Submission Phase will last:
Time's up!
Remember to consider the following questions!
- What do :entropy and :gravity have in common in terms of mechanics?
- What can :entropy and :gravity do together that neither element can do on their own?
- What do :entropy and :gravity not share? How could someone put both together on a card?
In the meantime,Week 2 begins now with DISSA!
Discussion/Submission Phase will last:
Time's up!
Remember to consider the following questions!
- What do :entropy and :gravity have in common in terms of mechanics?
- What can :entropy and :gravity do together that neither element can do on their own?
- What do :entropy and :gravity not share? How could someone put both together on a card?
Post by: EmeraldTiger on October 22, 2015, 04:33:39 am
(http://i.imgur.com/UpvLDQx.png) or (http://i.imgur.com/FZj9v7p.png)
I was thinking sinceand
are spells, and
is a creature.
An Event Horizon idea would need to fall into :gravity or a Hybrid, but as a Permanent.
The only thing is, I have no idea what it should do.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Event_horizon
A shared theme can be found in the cards I mentioned here. The 1st 2 are quanta generation/destruction.
other than this I don't see much similarities in the ETG meta.
I'm sure there are sciences that bring :entropy and :gravity together but that would require some bit of research.
Post by: ZephyrPhantom on October 22, 2015, 04:52:04 am
Post by: kirbylover314 on October 22, 2015, 04:58:26 am
I would argue that Devour and Paradox deals more of the theme of manipulation of creatures' stats in line with other Gravity and Entropy cards, as the two elements have Chaos Power, Antimatter, Gravity Pull, Acceleration and Momentum.
Post by: ZephyrPhantom on October 22, 2015, 05:11:02 am
I'd also like to note that Gravity's high HP and Entropy's random chance stick out as things that each element has; these seem difficult to reconcile into a design, though...
*ZephyrPhantom thinks.
Perhaps something like this?
Quote
Shifting Boson | Chaos Boson 5 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DissaMark.png) | 1 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DissaMark.png)
0 | 20
Unupped text: Each turn, loses 1-6 HP to gain that much ATK.
Upped Text: Each turn, loses 1-6 HP to have a random creature lose the same amount of HP.
Post by: ZephyrPhantom on October 22, 2015, 05:36:33 am
This card works with both of them, and can give different synergies per element. The upgraded is borderline OP, or just completely OP, and I have no idea how to balance.In all fairness, the upgraded requires a second card to instakill, much like Shockwave + Freeze. It contains a wide variety of effects that don't quite outright beat other more specialized cards (Heal, Lobotomizer) but has multiple uses.
A bit iffy on the the fact that it lobotomizes, though. This seems like it could be more :gravity / :aether , given that.
Post by: EmeraldTiger on October 22, 2015, 03:06:38 pm
Dissa's Embrace 5 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DissaMark.png) | Dissa's Embrace 4 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DissaMark.png)
Target creature and a random creature in your possession combine to become a Dissan Chimera.
Notes: Both creatures are creatures in caster's possession.
Dissan Chimera | Dissan Chimera
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DissaMark.png)(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DissaMark.png) Unstable: Gain up to +/-3 attack and gain up to +/-3 hit points. | (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DissaMark.png) Unstable: Gain up to +/-3 attack and gain up to +/-3 hit points.
I guess that would fall under creature manipulation.
Post by: OdinVanguard on October 22, 2015, 06:31:31 pm
The amount of dispersion in a player's pool is calculated in 2 steps. First, the total quanta, N is computed and fed into Stirling's Approximation for factorial logarithms:
A = N*ln(N)-N
Next the above formula is applied to the quanta count of each non-empty pool and the results are sumed:
B = Sum( Nr * ln(Nr) - Nr) over all Nr non-empty pools.
Then,
Dispersion = A - B
This could work well as a theme for Dissa ( :gravity , :entropy ) hybrid since the mechanic could interact with the quanta manipulation themes inherent in both elements.A = N*ln(N)-N
Next the above formula is applied to the quanta count of each non-empty pool and the results are sumed:
B = Sum( Nr * ln(Nr) - Nr) over all Nr non-empty pools.
Then,
Dispersion = A - B
E.g. reward the player for increasing / decreasing their quantum dispersion while penalizing the opponent.
Quanta manipulation, in terms of condesing / dispersing could make an interesting theme here.
This concept of dispersion interaction could also be extended to compute the dispersion of creature stats.
HP lends itself most easily since creature HP is always greater than 0.
ATK could be done as well, but may be more tricky since negative and zero values will complicate the math.
Again, this builds of the core theme of dispersion ( :entropy ) and condensation ( :gravity )
Example:
(http://i.imgur.com/F2RZt2B.png) (http://i.imgur.com/1P92orT.png)
The above card ties in both the concept of dispersion as an entropy metric ( :entropy ) and the concept of condensation of power / mass ( :gravity ).
A spell idea that focuses on weapons instead:
"Meromorphic Overload: Target weapon siphons 1|0 from all creatures in the field with the least dispersed HPs.
It will self destruct on hit."
Another spell idea, this one does not need to resort to dispersion calculations:
"Quantum Holomorphism: Redistribute your quanta to match the distribution of card costs in your hand and deck, rounding up."
... Although this might be more useful for :aether :entropy decks.
A potentially more fitting spell:
"Power Accretion: Target creature siphons 1|1 from all other creatures each turn. It becomes a nova when either ATK or HP exceeds 30."
Post by: ZephyrPhantom on October 23, 2015, 05:40:49 pm
P.S. - Would love to see more input on the :light / :darkness poll on the ideas in the OP, if possible.
Post by: AD TienzuStorm on October 23, 2015, 08:27:40 pm
Also, as somebody said earlier: both elements have quite a bit of focus on stats (with seemingly Entropy more caring about attack through Maxwell's Demon and then just neutral stat cards whilst Gravy likes HP as shown through cards like Catapult and GP).
Post by: OdinVanguard on October 23, 2015, 09:52:56 pm
You have a field of 5 unupgraded cockatrices (4 HP each), which yields an HP dispersion of 32.2
I have a purple dragon (5 HP) and an armagio (25 HP), which yields an HP dispersion of 13.5
--This makes sense, the hp on the field of cockatrices is evenly distributed among all 5 creatures while on the other field most of the HP is concentrated in the armagio, hence the lower score even though there are more total HPs.
I cast Power Sink on my armagio.
Since your field has more dispersed HPs, the 1|0 gets siphoned from each of your cockatrices and given to my armagio.
You now have 5 3|4 creatures while I now have a 10|5 and a 6|25.
Note that power sink favors players keeping most of their stats concentrated, so despite its potential power, it is easily countered by RT.
Similarly, Power Sink is a good 'soft counter' to mass CC since mass CC will tend to thin out massess of low HP creatures, leaving the HP more concentrated in a handful of survivors.
Also, as somebody said earlier: both elements have quite a bit of focus on stats (with seemingly Entropy more caring about attack through Maxwell's Demon and then just neutral stat cards whilst Gravy likes HP as shown through cards like Catapult and GP).This is why power sink drains power ( :entropy ) and concentrates it into a single creature ( :gravity )
Post by: EmeraldTiger on October 24, 2015, 02:47:36 am
I Googled this... where does Gravity and Entropy coexist
Post by: Solaris on October 24, 2015, 02:57:53 am
So, I was thinking a card based around a "scale", for the Gravity part, however, the Entropy part seems to be counterbalancing the scale!
Tilted Scale
4 :entropy or :gravity
Randomly inflicts either Gravity Pull or Chaos Seed on a creature each turn.
1 :entropy or :gravity : Tilt
Shifts the current scale bias to the opposite option. Starts in Gravity Pull.
Slanted Scale
5 :entropy or :gravity
Randomly inflicts either Overdrive or Chaos Power on a creature each turn..
1 :entropy or :gravity : Tilt
Shifts the current scale bias to the opposite option. Starts in Overdrive.
4 :entropy or :gravity
Randomly inflicts either Gravity Pull or Chaos Seed on a creature each turn.
1 :entropy or :gravity : Tilt
Shifts the current scale bias to the opposite option. Starts in Gravity Pull.
Slanted Scale
5 :entropy or :gravity
Randomly inflicts either Overdrive or Chaos Power on a creature each turn..
1 :entropy or :gravity : Tilt
Shifts the current scale bias to the opposite option. Starts in Overdrive.
Unbalanced? Likely. Just trying to get feedback on the idea.
Post by: ZephyrPhantom on October 24, 2015, 04:57:51 am
Slanted Scale seems like it could be incredibly strong, even if it could hit enemy creatures.
My main concern about the idea atm is that it lets mono :gravity access mono :entropy effects and vice versa - if you look at the Duality cards, you'll notice that most of them try to strike a point where either element could conceivably have the effect or require the presence both :light and :darkness to unlock the full potential of their effects. Titled Scale on the hand allows for mono Gravity to constant spam Chaos Seed and Chaos Power without the need for any :entropy , which is a bit.... jarring to say the the least. I'd start by having it require :entropy to access "Entropy mode" and :gravity to access "Gravity mode", though that doesn't solve the issue of it starting in Gravity mode and being accessed by mono-Entropy.
Post by: OdinVanguard on October 24, 2015, 04:08:49 pm
I'd also had constant infliction of Gravity Pull in mind when ET showed me Entropic Gravity, so I think Tilted Scale is on the right track.One way around this is to have its starting, and available modes determined by the quanta that was used to pay its cost.
Slanted Scale seems like it could be incredibly strong, even if it could hit enemy creatures.
My main concern about the idea atm is that it lets mono :gravity access mono :entropy effects and vice versa - if you look at the Duality cards, you'll notice that most of them try to strike a point where either element could conceivably have the effect or require the presence both :light and :darkness to unlock the full potential of their effects. Titled Scale on the hand allows for mono Gravity to constant spam Chaos Seed and Chaos Power without the need for any :entropy , which is a bit.... jarring to say the the least. I'd start by having it require :entropy to access "Entropy mode" and :gravity to access "Gravity mode", though that doesn't solve the issue of it starting in Gravity mode and being accessed by mono-Entropy.
E.g. if the player plays it using only :gravity then only gravity mode is available.
Conversely if only :entropy is used to pay the cost then only entropy mode is available.
If both :entropy and :gravity is used to pay its cost then it starts in which ever mode payed more of its cost and both modes become available.
Not sure how trick that would be to implement but it would make thematic and mechanical sense.
Post by: Basman-1453 on October 25, 2015, 03:31:15 am
So, to bridge the rift, I'm thinking of some sort of an insurance card that ensures you to get something at least of some worth out of Mutants.
Order in Chaos
5 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DissaMark.png) | 4 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DissaMark.png)
Permanent
As long as this permanent is in play, all Mutants are generated with Momentum in addition to mutant skills.
(Not included in the card: Yes, all Mutants, even your opponent's. Be careful of using this against Chaos Lord or another Mutation-happy player.
Forgot to add: Multiple Orders in Chaos does not stack.)
5 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DissaMark.png) | 4 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DissaMark.png)
Permanent
As long as this permanent is in play, all Mutants are generated with Momentum in addition to mutant skills.
(Not included in the card: Yes, all Mutants, even your opponent's. Be careful of using this against Chaos Lord or another Mutation-happy player.
Forgot to add: Multiple Orders in Chaos does not stack.)
Post by: ZephyrPhantom on October 25, 2015, 04:19:04 am
One way around this is to have its starting, and available modes determined by the quanta that was used to pay its cost.Seems possible but at the rate we're going it sounds like we'd have issues fitting Tilted Scale's text onto a card. I'll post what I had in mind while reading ET's submissions while I'm at it.
E.g. if the player plays it using only :gravity then only gravity mode is available.
Conversely if only :entropy is used to pay the cost then only entropy mode is available.
If both :entropy and :gravity is used to pay its cost then it starts in which ever mode payed more of its cost and both modes become available.
Not sure how trick that would be to implement but it would make thematic and mechanical sense.
Erratic Centrifuge
5 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DissaMark.png) | 4 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DissaMark.png)
Permanent
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DissaMark.png)(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DissaMark.png) : Inflicts a random creature on the field with Gravity Pull. Repeatable.
This way, it has Entropy's randomness element, but if you're willing to invest enough quanta, you'll eventually get the desired 'orderly' ( :gravity ) result based on the law of averages, which is actually fairly reflective of entropy as a scientific concept.
I'd like Order in Chaos more if it didn't feel so situational - you really can't use this anywhere outside of a Mutation deck and it requires you to have Mutation first to do anything with it. Feels weird that I picture this being used much more often in :entropy / :life decks instead when this is supposed to have :gravity in it.
Post by: EmeraldTiger on October 25, 2015, 04:48:09 pm
Only involve the 2 elements.
Involve the 2 elements and players mark.
Post by: Treldon on October 25, 2015, 06:35:01 pm
Post by: Fippe94 on October 25, 2015, 06:47:43 pm
I'd also had constant infliction of Gravity Pull in mind when ET showed me Entropic Gravity, so I think Tilted Scale is on the right track.One way around this is to have its starting, and available modes determined by the quanta that was used to pay its cost.
Slanted Scale seems like it could be incredibly strong, even if it could hit enemy creatures.
My main concern about the idea atm is that it lets mono :gravity access mono :entropy effects and vice versa - if you look at the Duality cards, you'll notice that most of them try to strike a point where either element could conceivably have the effect or require the presence both :light and :darkness to unlock the full potential of their effects. Titled Scale on the hand allows for mono Gravity to constant spam Chaos Seed and Chaos Power without the need for any :entropy , which is a bit.... jarring to say the the least. I'd start by having it require :entropy to access "Entropy mode" and :gravity to access "Gravity mode", though that doesn't solve the issue of it starting in Gravity mode and being accessed by mono-Entropy.
E.g. if the player plays it using only :gravity then only gravity mode is available.
Conversely if only :entropy is used to pay the cost then only entropy mode is available.
If both :entropy and :gravity is used to pay its cost then it starts in which ever mode payed more of its cost and both modes become available.
Not sure how trick that would be to implement but it would make thematic and mechanical sense.
This seems like extra complicated, seeing as implementing hybrids will already be a bit tricky. What would be easier and in many cases have the same result,(especially when the cost isn't too high) is to simply check how much gravity and entropy quanta you own when it is played.
Post by: ZephyrPhantom on October 26, 2015, 04:42:08 pm
Dissa Pendulum
Alternately generates :entropy and :gravity.
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DissaMark.png): Stabilize - This pendulum's stack remains on its current element this turn.
(Upgraded: Same text + "Gain 1 extra :entropy or :gravity when you play this card.")
(This card stacks like a normal Pendulum + you can run as many copies as you want.)
Post by: EmeraldTiger on October 26, 2015, 05:51:45 pm
Post by: andretimpa on October 29, 2015, 07:19:54 pm
Quantum Collapse
? (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DissaMark.png) | ? (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DissaMark.png)
Spell
All of target player's quanta is randomly converted to one type
Notes (I don't know how much would actually fit, though cygnia cards have more space in them): The probability of a given quanta type to be the targeted one is proportional to the amount it is originally present.
So if I target my opponent and he has 3 :darkness, 5 :time and 2 :air, then it would be converted to
10 :darkness with 30% chance
10 :time with 50% chance
10 :air with 20% chance
any excess above 75, after the convertion is naturally discarded. Blocked by sanctuary when using against your opponent.
Post by: ZephyrPhantom on October 29, 2015, 07:22:58 pm
Phase will advance in 24-48 hours (busy day here), but feel free to keep discussing and posting ideas in the meantime.
Post by: OdinVanguard on October 29, 2015, 10:35:32 pm
If you read his interview with VRT he explains it in terms of an entropy elemental being able to force a drop of dye in water to spread out more quickly while a gravity elemental would be able to force it to contract back together.
In essence, then, Dissa would have control over distributions as a core theme, being able to manipulate both contraction and expansion at will.
I think the order vs chaos theme is a little more thin here. The connection of entropy and chaos makes sense, given what is in game now particularly, but the connection of gravity and order is not so readily apparent.
Post by: OdinVanguard on October 30, 2015, 01:28:46 am
(http://i.imgur.com/uvkijbQ.png) | (http://i.imgur.com/DO4wKct.png) | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Post by: ZephyrPhantom on October 31, 2015, 01:33:05 am
Quote
Which Duality cards do you feel best represent Light and Darkness combined?Which Duality cards do you feel best represent Light and Darkness combined?
Shades of Grey
3 (12.5%)
Blinding Light
3 (12.5%)
Eclipse Essence
6 (25%)
Draining Purge
0 (0%)
Night and Day
0 (0%)
Living Shadows
4 (16.7%)
Bat Breeder
0 (0%)
Dual Shade
3 (12.5%)
Grip of Blood
1 (4.2%)
Penumbra Edict
4 (16.7%)
With Light and Darkness completed, we will now be moving onto the voting phase for Entropy and Gravity, also dubbed as (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DissaMark.png) Dissa (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DissaMark.png)! Vote for the cards that you feel are the best representative of the combination between :entropy and :gravity .
Quote
Shifting Boson | Chaos Boson 5 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DissaMark.png) | 1 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DissaMark.png)
0 | 20
Unupped text: Each turn, loses 1-6 HP to gain that much ATK.
Upped Text: Each turn, loses 1-6 HP to have a random creature lose the same amount of HP.
Quote
Dissa's Embrace 5 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DissaMark.png) | Dissa's Embrace 4 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DissaMark.png)
Target creature and a random creature in your possession combine to become a Dissan Chimera.
Notes: Both creatures are creatures in caster's possession.Dissan Chimera | Dissan Chimera
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DissaMark.png)(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DissaMark.png) Unstable: Gain up to +/-3 attack and gain up to +/-3 hit points. | (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DissaMark.png) Unstable: Gain up to +/-3 attack and gain up to +/-3 hit points.
Quote
Power Sink | Improved Power Sink 6 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DissaMark.png) | 7 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DissaMark.png)
Spell
Unupped text: Target creature siphons 1|0 from up to 8 creatures in the field with the most dispersed HPs among its creatures.
Upped Text: Target creature siphons 1|1 from up to 8 creatures in the field with the most dispersed HPs among its creatures.Powersink example:
You have a field of 5 unupgraded cockatrices (4 HP each), which yields an HP dispersion of 32.2
I have a purple dragon (5 HP) and an armagio (25 HP), which yields an HP dispersion of 13.5
--This makes sense, the hp on the field of cockatrices is evenly distributed among all 5 creatures while on the other field most of the HP is concentrated in the armagio, hence the lower score even though there are more total HPs.
I cast Power Sink on my armagio.
Since your field has more dispersed HPs, the 1|0 gets siphoned from each of your cockatrices and given to my armagio.
You now have 5 3|4 creatures while I now have a 10|5 and a 6|25.
Note that power sink favors players keeping most of their stats concentrated, so despite its potential power, it is easily countered by RT.
Similarly, Power Sink is a good 'soft counter' to mass CC since mass CC will tend to thin out massess of low HP creatures, leaving the HP more concentrated in a handful of survivors.
Quote
Meromorphic Overload ??? (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DissaMark.png) | ??? (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DissaMark.png)
Spell
Target weapon siphons 1|0 from all creatures in the field with the least dispersed HPs.
It will self destruct on hit.
Quote
Quantum Holomorphism ??? (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DissaMark.png) | ??? (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DissaMark.png)
Spell
Redistribute your quanta to match the distribution of card costs in your hand and deck, rounding up.
Quote
Power Accretion ??? (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DissaMark.png) | ??? (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DissaMark.png)
Spell
Target creature siphons 1|1 from all other creatures each turn. It becomes a nova when either ATK or HP exceeds 30.
Quote
Tilted Scale
4 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DissaMark.png)
Randomly inflicts either Gravity Pull or Chaos Seed on a creature each turn.
1 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DissaMark.png) : Tilt
Shifts the current scale bias to the opposite option. Starts in Gravity Pull.
Slanted Scale
5 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DissaMark.png)
Randomly inflicts either Overdrive or Chaos Power on a creature each turn..
1 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DissaMark.png) : Tilt
Shifts the current scale bias to the opposite option. Starts in Overdrive.
Quote
Order in Chaos
5 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DissaMark.png) | 4 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DissaMark.png)
Permanent
As long as this permanent is in play, all Mutants are generated with Momentum in addition to mutant skills.
(Not included in the card: Yes, all Mutants, even your opponent's. Be careful of using this against Chaos Lord or another Mutation-happy player.
Forgot to add: Multiple Orders in Chaos does not stack.)
Quote
Erratic Centrifuge
5 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DissaMark.png) | 4 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DissaMark.png)
Permanent
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DissaMark.png)(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DissaMark.png) : Inflicts a random creature on the field with Gravity Pull. Repeatable.
Quote
Dissa Pendulum
Alternately generates :entropy and :gravity.
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DissaMark.png): Stabilize - This pendulum's stack remains on its current element this turn.
(Upgraded: Same text + "Gain 1 extra :entropy or :gravity when you play this card.")
(This card stacks like a normal Pendulum + you can run as many copies as you want.)
Quote
Quantum Collapse
? (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DissaMark.png) | ? (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DissaMark.png)
Spell
All of target player's quanta is randomly converted to one type
Notes(I don't know how much would actually fit, though cygnia cards have more space in them): The probability of a given quanta type to be the targeted one is proportional to the amount it is originally present.
So if I target my opponent and he has 3 :darkness, 5 :time and 2 :air, then it would be converted to
10 :darkness with 30% chance
10 :time with 50% chance
10 :air with 20% chance
any excess above 75, after the convertion is naturally discarded. Blocked by sanctuary when using against your opponent.
Quote
Quantum Glitch Mob | Micro Glitch Mob
6 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DissaMark.png) | 1 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DissaMark.png)
6 | 6 / 2 | 2
Split on owner quanta absorb or scramble during enemy turn. Gain +1|+1 per enemy scramble or absorb event.Splitting results in two new copies of the original card. The stats will each be one half of the original, rounded up.
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/TeriesMark.png)
And with a swift tremor,Week 3 begins now with TERIES!
Discussion/Submission Phase will last:
Time's up!
Remember to consider the following questions!
- What do :earth and :air have in common in terms of mechanics?
- What can :earth and :air do together that neither element can do on their own?
- What do :earth and :air not share? How could someone put both together on a card?
And with a swift tremor,Week 3 begins now with TERIES!
Discussion/Submission Phase will last:
Time's up!
Remember to consider the following questions!
- What do :earth and :air have in common in terms of mechanics?
- What can :earth and :air do together that neither element can do on their own?
- What do :earth and :air not share? How could someone put both together on a card?
Post by: EmeraldTiger on October 31, 2015, 01:50:26 am
Post by: ZephyrPhantom on October 31, 2015, 03:30:41 am
The best I can find at the moment is interaction with permanents, be it through control (Earthquake, Pulverizer, SoFree, Shockwave) or enhancement (Animate Weapon, Protect Artifact). What else is there?
Post by: AD TienzuStorm on October 31, 2015, 03:38:43 am
:earth
- Enchant Artifact
- Burrowing in general
- Heavy Armor/Stone Skin/Gargoyle
:air
- SoFr
- Wings
Also, "nature's fury" is a theme that can be used.
Post by: CleanOnion on October 31, 2015, 03:45:24 am
They've come out a fair bit worse than I expected, but they should be able to replace some of the worse current hybrid backgrounds and those which don't currently have a background. At least until someone makes better art. So they're placeholders.
For example, the current Duality background is lovely and this here Duality placeholder background is... um... ahem. Not so lovely.
I've made backgrounds for Duality, Dissa and Teries, in this spoiler.
(http://i.imgur.com/fSfK1H8.png) (http://i.imgur.com/766HKXp.png) mmm , nice
(http://i.imgur.com/hscQBQR.png) (http://i.imgur.com/lCmJO8g.png) ew
(http://i.imgur.com/DmcDOj7.png) (http://i.imgur.com/vj60gwD.png) awful. just awful.
(http://i.imgur.com/hscQBQR.png) (http://i.imgur.com/lCmJO8g.png) ew
(http://i.imgur.com/DmcDOj7.png) (http://i.imgur.com/vj60gwD.png) awful. just awful.
I also have a .psd file (photoshop) that will allow anyone to easily make the standardised backgrounds: https://mega.nz/#!hBU3xTwZ!UIfXnw9CCnWq7KXP3pKKBSMkELQpIb8o0BI9ZmBPlzY
(that's a download link)
Post by: AD TienzuStorm on October 31, 2015, 04:03:11 am
Okay, here are the standardised background I promised.
They've come out a fair bit worse than I expected, but they should be able to replace some of the worse current hybrid backgrounds and those which don't currently have a background. At least until someone makes better art. So they're placeholders.
For example, the current Duality background is lovely and this here Duality placeholder background is... um... ahem. Not so lovely.
I've made backgrounds for Duality, Dissa and Teries, in this spoiler.(http://i.imgur.com/fSfK1H8.png) (http://i.imgur.com/766HKXp.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/hscQBQR.png) (http://i.imgur.com/lCmJO8g.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/DmcDOj7.png) (http://i.imgur.com/vj60gwD.png)
I also have a .psd file (photoshop) that will allow anyone to easily make the standardised backgrounds, but I can't figure out how to attach it so bear with me please
Hm, how would it work with just changing the color scheme of one to match the other element?
Like, have the gravy background but recolored pink and purple hues instead of orange ones.
Post by: EmeraldTiger on October 31, 2015, 04:03:47 am
When I was writing the stories about the Half-bloods, I was trying to imagine the worlds that they were growing up in. These worlds would mostly consist of the 2 elements that also was in each of these Hybrid Elementals. As a potential source of inspiration, Imagine what powers, tools and creatures would these said elementals have at their disposal.
Post by: andretimpa on October 31, 2015, 10:57:59 am
Dust and Sand are theme I associate to :air / :earth as they are a kind of mixture. Mechanically I have no idea.
Post by: CleanOnion on October 31, 2015, 01:58:40 pm
Ooh, that would work really well for some of them.Okay, here are the standardised background I promised.
They've come out a fair bit worse than I expected, but they should be able to replace some of the worse current hybrid backgrounds and those which don't currently have a background. At least until someone makes better art. So they're placeholders.
For example, the current Duality background is lovely and this here Duality placeholder background is... um... ahem. Not so lovely.
I've made backgrounds for Duality, Dissa and Teries, in this spoiler.(http://i.imgur.com/fSfK1H8.png) (http://i.imgur.com/766HKXp.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/hscQBQR.png) (http://i.imgur.com/lCmJO8g.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/DmcDOj7.png) (http://i.imgur.com/vj60gwD.png)
I also have a .psd file (photoshop) that will allow anyone to easily make the standardised backgrounds, but I can't figure out how to attach it so bear with me please
Hm, how would it work with just changing the color scheme of one to match the other element?
Like, have the gravy background but recolored pink and purple hues instead of orange ones.
Take Teries, though - a brown gradient or blue dirt-cracks? Isn't it mostly the colour of the background that reflects the element? I'm not sure how well this would work.
Post by: EmeraldTiger on October 31, 2015, 03:00:20 pm
some kind of dust cloud or storm for a shield that DR is equal to some formula based the amount of :earth and :air .
Also for a high end creature WE develop a Teriesian Roc.
Post by: ZephyrPhantom on October 31, 2015, 06:05:12 pm
Can you guys put the cost of Quantum Collapse at 3/2 as per Z's suggestion?Done.
Dust and Sand are theme I associate to :air / :earth as they are a kind of mixture. Mechanically I have no idea.
Also, I believe I have found :earth / :air 's perfect theme song (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2HQaBWziYvY).
@ ET - Seems like an interesting idea, though I'm not certain where the Air part lies in that. Perhaps % chance to miss based on amount of :earth / :air instead? Also, mind linking some info on Roc to help other designers get an idea of what you're referencing.
@ AD - I feel like recoloring one background is a simple idea but it does have its own awkwardness. Clean's border merges are definitely practical but a bit less elegant than custom mixed borders. Ftr, my thoughts on implementing this into Cygnia would be that one element's background is rendered at 50% tranparency and overlaid on the other element's background.
Post by: Zyardran on November 01, 2015, 02:21:09 am
and
(http://i.imgur.com/793Idsk.png)(http://i.imgur.com/5wW2vOA.png)
Post by: Treldon on November 01, 2015, 07:43:04 am
And Flying Weapon is already used...
Post by: OdinVanguard on November 02, 2015, 03:24:50 pm
we see this exemplified in
-stone skin
-burrow mechanic
-plate armor
-High DR shields
It also has a connection with permanents and things composed of more rigid and / or inanimate substance. I.e. it has a connection with permanents, and pillars and pendulums in particular
-Protect Artifact
-Earthquake (and tsunami cross element mechanic)
-Golems (hematite and cross element lava golem)
-Pulverizer
Air on the other hand prefers avoidance for survival
-Sofr
-Fog shield
-Wings
It prefers to hit swiftly and to overwhelm in a sudden strike
-Dive
-Sky blitz
-Shockwave
It also has a pension for ranged weapons / attacks. This is something that might be worth expanding (e.g. have ranged creatures which can gain some kind of benefit vs shields)
-Owl's Eye
-Bows
So the question is, how can we combine the two?
... One interesting idea is to play off of the contrast.
For instance, a creature which starts burrowed but, upon unburrowing gain flying and enhanced dive.
Effectively that quadruples (or perhaps more) its attack for 1 turn.
During its first turn out, it could also have a bonus evasion (corresponding to its unpredictable and abrupt emergence from ground to sky) or alternately, a shield bypass chance (or both).
Dust storm is another way to go.
It could be similar to thunderstorm but also cause all creatures to have an increased miss chance and / or deal less damage.
Post by: EmeraldTiger on November 02, 2015, 04:24:28 pm
Does anyone have suggestions on how inspiration can be achieved for the Material elements? ( :earth :air) ( :fire :water)
Post by: AD TienzuStorm on November 02, 2015, 06:31:55 pm
So the question is, how can we combine the two?
... One interesting idea is to play off of the contrast.
For instance, a creature which starts burrowed but, upon unburrowing gain flying and enhanced dive.
Effectively that quadruples (or perhaps more) its attack for 1 turn.
During its first turn out, it could also have a bonus evasion (corresponding to its unpredictable and abrupt emergence from ground to sky) or alternately, a shield bypass chance (or both).
Dust storm is another way to go.
It could be similar to thunderstorm but also cause all creatures to have an increased miss chance and / or deal less damage.
I like this a lot, although dust storm is already a theme used by Dust Moth.
Actually, for the burrowing --> airborne thing, why not make it a spell? Like:
Jump (better names are always welcome)
3 :earth/:air
Spell
Target burrowed creature unburrows and deals double damage this turn, burrows after attack
This also helps buff Burrow as a whole, although I imagine it might be useless in Air as an element.
Post by: andretimpa on November 02, 2015, 07:41:29 pm
Post by: CleanOnion on November 02, 2015, 09:32:15 pm
So the question is, how can we combine the two?
... One interesting idea is to play off of the contrast.
For instance, a creature which starts burrowed but, upon unburrowing gain flying and enhanced dive.
Effectively that quadruples (or perhaps more) its attack for 1 turn.
During its first turn out, it could also have a bonus evasion (corresponding to its unpredictable and abrupt emergence from ground to sky) or alternately, a shield bypass chance (or both).
(http://puu.sh/l746Z/3fa3eae901.png)
(http://puu.sh/l748p/b3206b8231.png)Click images to enlarge
Art's a placeholder obviously.
The idea is, as OV suggested, a rocky type thing that lives burrowed. When it Erupts, it stops being dormant and does more damage but is more fragile too. The "Dive" option triples the damage (18ATK ftw) but then it goes underground again - because the impact of such a heavy object will send it into the ground.
I'd also like to point out that the placeholder background actually doesn't look that bad when it's on a card. But that's just my opinion.
Stone Demon should probably be airborne, yeah.
Also the upgrading mechanic is based on Z's Gadget Shield / Sword (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/level-3-anvil/gadget-sword-gadget-shield/).
I don't think Dormant Stone Demon should be Burrowed unless it also take a HP reduction. It just seems OP to me.
Post by: OdinVanguard on November 04, 2015, 03:22:15 pm
Interesting idea to play off of the defensive themes behind both elements:
"Sandstorm Blessing: Target creature gains +1|+1, recieves 1 less damage from all sources and has +25% chance to evade targetting."
Post by: ZephyrPhantom on November 04, 2015, 06:13:38 pm
Quote
Eclipse Essence 4 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DualityMark.png) | 3 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/DualityMark.png)
Permanent
Whenever a creature generates :light , heal 1 HP.
Whenever a creature generates :darkness , your opponent loses 1 HP.
So while this card can function in mono :light and mono :darkness , you typically won't get the most out of both effects unless you run it in a :light / :darkness duo.
Post by: Espithel on November 04, 2015, 06:18:24 pm
Someone fetch me a list of :earth / :air duos whilst I get drafting.
Post by: Submachine on November 04, 2015, 06:30:26 pm
Someone fetch me a list of :earth / :air duos whilst I get drafting.I don't think that those elements have any synergy with each other, therefore any duo between them is forced.
Unless someone will correct me below. >_>
EDIT: Now that I think about it, a hybrid card could be made to make Flying Pulverizers a working thing in an :air - :earth duo. Maybe make it change weapon ability cost to :air :earth dual cost?
Post by: Espithel on November 04, 2015, 06:32:43 pm
Someone fetch me a list of :earth / :air duos whilst I get drafting.I don't think that those elements have any synergy with each other, therefore any duo between them is forced.
Unless someone will correct me below. >_>
I'm sure SOMEONE's made an earth-air deck. It's probably a stall.
Edit: Shiva Damn your ninja edits
Post by: Submachine on November 04, 2015, 06:33:34 pm
Someone fetch me a list of :earth / :air duos whilst I get drafting.I don't think that those elements have any synergy with each other, therefore any duo between them is forced.
Unless someone will correct me below. >_>
I'm sure SOMEONE's made an earth-air deck. It's probably a stall.
Read my ninja edit.
Post by: OdinVanguard on November 05, 2015, 04:28:45 pm
As ZP noted, working in explicit or implicit synergy with duo decks is a good idea.
In this case, duos will benefit from having an increased range of target selection.
Air only decks would only be able to target this creature its self or animated weapons
Earth decks would only be able to target this creature or hematite golems.
Duos could work off of both.
(http://i.imgur.com/eVnPVI5.png) | (http://i.imgur.com/dWmHull.png) | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Weapons and pillars makes an interesting duo interaction area. Having buffs that target a weapon and trigger on pillar destruction will automatically create duo synnergy thanks to animate weapon and EQ.Someone fetch me a list of :earth / :air duos whilst I get drafting.I don't think that those elements have any synergy with each other, therefore any duo between them is forced.
Unless someone will correct me below. >_>
I'm sure SOMEONE's made an earth-air deck. It's probably a stall.
Read my ninja edit.
Post by: ZephyrPhantom on November 06, 2015, 05:24:14 am
Jotting down a modified version of an idea ET had, in light of current discussion:
Quote
Duststorm Shield 4 | 3 [ :earth / :air ]
Permanent
Shield: Opposing creatures have X% chance to deal half damage, where X is your current amount of :earth quanta. (max 40%)
Opposing creatures have X% chance to miss, where X is your current amount of :air quanta. (max 40%)
@ Submachine - Interesting idea, though cost-changing isn't exactly something :earth / :air is known for. Would need to see it on idea before I could really get behind it.
Skyforge Golem seems like an interesting combo piece especially since it's possibly a janky way for :earth to manipulate weapons. Does it work with Lava Golems as well?
Stone Demon actually looks pretty fun, and yeah, I don't think it should start Burrowed because that probably makes it very difficult to kill (compare to Phoenix/Ash as needed). I do think we should consider the possibility of making the upped one airborne, if only because of the crazy potential with Sky Blitz.
Post by: ZephyrPhantom on November 08, 2015, 11:23:33 am
Post by: ZephyrPhantom on November 12, 2015, 06:55:36 am
Due to real life issues, I may not be able to update this thread for about a week or so. In the meantime, feel free to continue discussing Earth/Air synergy!
Post by: EmeraldTiger on November 13, 2015, 12:36:14 am
Post by: OdinVanguard on November 13, 2015, 09:18:15 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/fiqrTIC.png) (http://i.imgur.com/cvSlAhA.png)
The mechanic will enhance the damage output of all weapons (not just non-rare weapons), but only non-rare weapons will be animated when they get replaced.
When the charges on the gauntlet are depleted, it will no longer animate non-rare weapons, but it will remain in play and continue to provide the stat bonus.
This would synnergy well with the junk golem card since replaced non-rare weapon would be animated instead of leaving play.
Post by: ZephyrPhantom on November 21, 2015, 04:55:54 pm
Quote
What cards do you feel are the best representation of combined Entropy and Gravity?
Shifting Boson
2 (12.5%)
Dissa's Embrace
3 (18.8%)
Power Sink
0 (0%)
Meromorphic Overload
0 (0%)
Quantum Holomorphism
0 (0%)
Power Accretion
2 (12.5%)
Tilted Scale
0 (0%)
Order in Chaos
0 (0%)
Erratic Centrifuge
1 (6.3%)
Dissa Pendulum
2 (12.5%)
Quantum Collapse
3 (18.8%)
Quantum Glitch Mob | Micro Glitch Mob
3 (18.8%)
With Entropy and Gravity completed, we will now be moving onto the voting phase for Earth and Air, also dubbed as
Quote
Destructive Wings 6 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/TeriesMark.png) | 5 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/TeriesMark.png)
Permanent
Shield: Reduce damage by one.
Any Earth creature gains -0 | -1 when it hits.
Quote
Airborne Weapon 6 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/TeriesMark.png) | 5 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/TeriesMark.png)
5 | 5
3: Gain the skill of a random Elemental weapon.
Quote
Jump 3 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/TeriesMark.png) | 2 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/TeriesMark.png)
Spell
Target burrowed creature unburrows and deals double damage this turn, burrows after attack
Quote
Dormant Stone Demon | Stone Demon 6 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/TeriesMark.png) | 7 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/TeriesMark.png)
0 | 10 / 6 | 2
Unupped Text: :earth :earth: Erupt - Become a Stone Demon.
Upped Text: :air :air: Dive - Triple damage dealt this turn. After damage is dealt, become a Dormant Stone Demon.
Quote
Skyforge Scrap-Golem | Skyforge Junk Golem 3 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/TeriesMark.png) | 3 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/TeriesMark.png)
2 | 6 / 4 | 6
1 : Skyforge - Target golem or flown weapon gains flown stats of the next weapon its owner replaces.
Quote
Duststorm Shield 4 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/TeriesMark.png) | 3 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/TeriesMark.png)
Permanent
Shield: Opposing creatures have X% chance to deal half damage, where X is your current amount of :earth quanta. (max 40%)
Opposing creatures have X% chance to miss, where X is your current amount of :air quanta. (max 40%)
Quote
Skyiron Gauntlets | Skysteel Gauntlets 3 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/TeriesMark.png) | 5 (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/TeriesMark.png)
Permanent
Unupped: Shield: Reduce damage by 1. Your weapons gain +1|+0 and are animated when replaced if they are not rare. 6 charges.
Upped: Shield: Reduce damage by 2. Your weapons gain +2|+0 and are animated when replaced if they are not rare. 6 charges.
(http://dl.dropbox.com/u/33829445/ElementsCustomMarks/Fierqua.png)
Praise the sun!And the sea! Week 4 begins now with FIERQUA!
Discussion/Submission Phase will last:
Time's up!
Remember to consider the following questions!
- What do :fire and :water have in common in terms of mechanics?
- What can :fire and :water do together that neither element can do on their own?
- What do :fire and :water not share? How could someone put both together on a card?
Praise the sun!And the sea! Week 4 begins now with FIERQUA!
Discussion/Submission Phase will last:
Time's up!
Remember to consider the following questions!
- What do :fire and :water have in common in terms of mechanics?
- What can :fire and :water do together that neither element can do on their own?
- What do :fire and :water not share? How could someone put both together on a card?
Post by: CleanOnion on November 21, 2015, 05:54:40 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/xguhq.png)
credit to jacker(http://i.imgur.com/vLj73NW.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/raxI2XS.png)
Post by: andretimpa on November 21, 2015, 09:43:19 pm
Which obviously means we need a Gabe Newell card.
Post by: EmeraldTiger on November 22, 2015, 01:28:58 am
Post by: ZephyrPhantom on November 22, 2015, 07:44:44 pm
The most obvious :water / :fire theme, which is even already in the game is steam.
Which obviously means we need a Gabe Newell card.
Though, to be fair, :fire and :water do both have quanta generating spells and cards that mess with permanents (Explosion, Nymph's Tears, Trident if you want to add :earth into that)....hm.
Tapping into the idea that :water promotes cross element synergy, how does this sound?
Quote
Heat Siphon 3 | 2 [:fire / :water]
Spell
Freeze target card for 2 turns and gain double its cost back in its element.
Post by: Jenkar on November 22, 2015, 07:55:18 pm
Here's my quick analysis of all the others :
Destructive wings : too situational. Air is generally more about (relatively quick) destruction than stalling in the cc department (contrarily to water, for example). The effect doesn't sound much like earth either.
Jump : yes. Burst damage fits both elements. But, the way it is made, it REQUIRES an earth-based deck. Sadness. If there were burrowing air creatures, this one'd be good.
Airborne weapon would clearly be better in entropy.
Stone demon : 100% fire. It would be a good fire/air card, if it got renamed for thematics.
Skyforge golem : holy <swear here> is that text complicated and confusing. After mulling on it, it sounds like something gravity, time, or aether would do, not air. Or earth.
Duststorm : nope, not air. Cool for earth though, i guess.
Skyiron gauntlets : not earthy, and the non-rare restriction is kinda eh.
Destructive wings : too situational. Air is generally more about (relatively quick) destruction than stalling in the cc department (contrarily to water, for example). The effect doesn't sound much like earth either.
Jump : yes. Burst damage fits both elements. But, the way it is made, it REQUIRES an earth-based deck. Sadness. If there were burrowing air creatures, this one'd be good.
Airborne weapon would clearly be better in entropy.
Stone demon : 100% fire. It would be a good fire/air card, if it got renamed for thematics.
Skyforge golem : holy <swear here> is that text complicated and confusing. After mulling on it, it sounds like something gravity, time, or aether would do, not air. Or earth.
Duststorm : nope, not air. Cool for earth though, i guess.
Skyiron gauntlets : not earthy, and the non-rare restriction is kinda eh.
Post by: Zyardran on November 22, 2015, 08:01:24 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/FNqF3ih.png) (http://i.imgur.com/tsdpZ7A.png)
Post by: andretimpa on November 22, 2015, 09:52:39 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/FNqF3ih.png) (http://i.imgur.com/tsdpZ7A.png)
The unupped sounds too double edged to be useful. The upped sounds like a fire shield that stacks for water (and affects mommentum'd creatures too).
Post by: EmeraldTiger on November 22, 2015, 11:02:05 pm
Post by: ZephyrPhantom on November 23, 2015, 01:11:53 am
Please comment on each other's cards, guys. At the very least, I'm going to be considering a week 7 so that all winning entries are reviewed and tweaked to actually fit their elemental themes.
Post by: Flayne on November 23, 2015, 06:48:31 am
(http://i.imgur.com/lZr1TfR.png) (http://i.imgur.com/0f2Rn0T.png)
(http://i.imgur.com/kvIiNau.png) (http://i.imgur.com/sp4PtQD.png)
Based on Water splitting, the splitting of water molecules into their atomic components (Hydrogen and Oxygen) through the process
of Thermal Decomposition or Thermolysis (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_splitting#Thermal_decomposition_of_water).
+
Hydrogenase (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen#Biological_reactions), Iron or nickel containing Enzyme that generates Hydrogen. Also has water splitting functions depending on the type of microorganism
The :air generating aspect of the Thermolysis cannon is based on the oxygen seperated from the hydrogen when water molecules split due to being heated up at extreme temperatures. A small touch to the card.
The Hydrogenase is based off on what can happen to the hydrogen atoms if cooled down which turns it into Liquid Hydrogen that can cause Frostbite if it comes into contact with the skin (frostbite can lead to gangrene infection if left untreated) or through heat combustion being exposed to air, causing an explosion and hydrogen flames.
The card itself is essentially another form of cc which I find both elements do well at, however the :fire spell activation is the more violent option naturally which can cause a high attack low def creature to be used against its owner as well as dealing with the creature itself.
Activations include :water & :fire creature and permanent abilities (Arctic squid and Unstable gas) (just couldn't fit anymore into the card format)
As well as AoE spell activations like Dry spell or Rain of fire (also Unstable gas)
Purify and Rage potion counts as well.
NOTE:
- Adjacent as in only creatures either side of it (1 space next to it on either side.)
- The stats of the creature converted into Hydrogenase remain the same hence X which equates to its original attack, the 2 hp assumes it was of 2 hp or less.
- <2 means 2 or less.
(http://i.imgur.com/kvIiNau.png) (http://i.imgur.com/sp4PtQD.png)
Based on Water splitting, the splitting of water molecules into their atomic components (Hydrogen and Oxygen) through the process
of Thermal Decomposition or Thermolysis (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_splitting#Thermal_decomposition_of_water).
+
Hydrogenase (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen#Biological_reactions), Iron or nickel containing Enzyme that generates Hydrogen. Also has water splitting functions depending on the type of microorganism
The :air generating aspect of the Thermolysis cannon is based on the oxygen seperated from the hydrogen when water molecules split due to being heated up at extreme temperatures. A small touch to the card.
The Hydrogenase is based off on what can happen to the hydrogen atoms if cooled down which turns it into Liquid Hydrogen that can cause Frostbite if it comes into contact with the skin (frostbite can lead to gangrene infection if left untreated) or through heat combustion being exposed to air, causing an explosion and hydrogen flames.
The card itself is essentially another form of cc which I find both elements do well at, however the :fire spell activation is the more violent option naturally which can cause a high attack low def creature to be used against its owner as well as dealing with the creature itself.
Activations include :water & :fire creature and permanent abilities (Arctic squid and Unstable gas) (just couldn't fit anymore into the card format)
As well as AoE spell activations like Dry spell or Rain of fire (also Unstable gas)
Purify and Rage potion counts as well.
NOTE:
- Adjacent as in only creatures either side of it (1 space next to it on either side.)
- The stats of the creature converted into Hydrogenase remain the same hence X which equates to its original attack, the 2 hp assumes it was of 2 hp or less.
- <2 means 2 or less.
I agree to some extent about Alklai Golem however I think the wording would need to be changed.
perhaps either on Entry Alklai Golem does 1 damage to all creatures unupped and upped only IF flooding is in play.
or the reverse A. Golem is in play and if Flooding is played, damage is dealt.
(or If both cards become present at any moment, damage is dealt?)
Interesting effect though I would add something more to it for :fire to work with too.
Post by: OdinVanguard on November 24, 2015, 06:27:10 pm
(http://i.imgur.com/3rdFa7S.png) | (http://i.imgur.com/ED0Agpe.png) | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
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@Flayne, why hydrogenase?
I like that card back art.
Post by: Flayne on November 24, 2015, 08:59:33 pm
Quote from: OdinVanguard
@Flayne, why Hydrogenase? I like that card backThanks :)
Hydrogenase are iron/nickel based enzymes that can generate energy from or as Hydrogen and allow other microorganisms to use it as a metabolite as well as help them proliferate under Hydrogen rich environments.
That said, I only thematically applied the hydrogen attraction/generation aspect of the hydrogenase as it was the closest thing I could find to being a result of rich hydrogen and that interacts with / catalyzes it.
______________
Nice art as usual Odin.
As for Frost fire Inversion unupped in particular,
I feel as though the use of the spell is generally limited in the sense that it relies heavily upon the drawing of 2 cards, each needing to be at least 1 of 2 specific cards but needing to be both, from potentially 6 of each (12) in a deck with a minimum of 30 cards; in order for a significantly small effect to occur.
In conclusion, the unuppgraded pales in comparison to the upgraded despite its cheaper cost and as a result appears unnattractive in the perspective of any non-bolt slinger user who would sooner upgrade it than use the unupped at all.
I suggest making the unupped a bit more appealing and signifcantly open its variety of uses.
Post by: OdinVanguard on November 25, 2015, 03:29:02 pm
Why not go with turning something into a chunk of sodium (or maybe a golem made out of sodium) so that it explodes if targeted by water or if in a flooded slot? ... just an idea... feel free to say NaH ;)
Hmm... good point, maybe the unupped could be:
(http://i.imgur.com/XZa2tvD.png)
So it still only generates bolts but will trigger off of any fire or water spell.
Another idea along the frostfire line. This one is a buff spell that provides a stat boost based on the owner's available :fire or :water quanta.
(http://i.imgur.com/eZuJQBv.png) | (http://i.imgur.com/izst0gI.png) | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
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Post by: Flayne on November 25, 2015, 03:55:15 pm
Quote from: OdinVanguard
Why not go with turning something into a chunk of sodium so that it explodes if targeted by water or if in a flooded slot?I could have just put Sodium Hydride (NaH)
But there are 3 problems with Sodium in this case:
1:NaH is a compound that is for the most part
man-made, most likely not suitable in Elements.
2:My card is based on :water Water splitting through thermolysis ( :fire ) which strictly involves Hydrogen and Oxygen as the main atomic components as well as extreme heat temperature that is the core concept of the card ( :fire :water ) sodium would not be present
3:It would be odd (though humorous :P ) to call the resulting creature "Sodium" which can actually attack if you don't use anything on it, as it retains its stats.
Hydrogenase was the closest natural concept I could get to with regards to water splitting, though if a lot are present, it can be catalyzed and be explosive. (Irl scientists are trying to synthesize the hydrogen produced by the enzyme even in the presence of air to maybe use on a bigger commercial scale) (if they haven't already been successful)
__________________________
Frostfire Inversion: Yea that unupped is way better as it can be applied with any spell of the :water :fire elements.
Post by: ZephyrPhantom on December 01, 2015, 11:16:15 am
Due to the decreasing number of submissions, I'd just like to get a quick grasp of opinion before this project is continued; does everyone currently participating still feel this project should go to week 6? I'm aware of the decreased number of submissions votes and am wondering if the project should instead have a separate "Part 2" phase that starts after a brief hiatus.
Post by: Zyardran on December 01, 2015, 11:18:53 am
Hello all!Yes I think so
Due to the decreasing number of submissions, I'd just like to get a quick grasp of opinion before this project is continued; does everyone currently participating still feel this project should go to week 6? I'm aware of the decreased number of submissions votes and am wondering if the project should instead have a separate "Part 2" phase that starts after a brief hiatus.
Post by: Flayne on December 01, 2015, 01:46:36 pm
I say this simply because making a part 2 would:
1: Take an extra slot of sub forum space
2: It would imply to other observers that there are differences or the project has moved to "phase 2"
So, if the project isn't taking any other direction or approach and still maintains its current format, then I would suggest just keep going to week 6, rather than potentially creating confusion with a thread called "part 2"
Though I'm just being meticulous about it, moving it to part 2 should not have much if
at all any, negative impact, it's just some foresight for such change.