Guest posts by Seravy

25

Duo-Decks / Re: Turbo-speed false god farming (statistics added, 5-6 upped cards per hour)

« on: July 14, 2010, 07:11:56 am »

Quote from: ellak96 on July 10, 2010, 02:02:51 PM

    Quick Question, what is a good replacement for lobotmizers in this deck?

There isn't one, the lobos are 100% utterly necessary.

Yeah, lobos are absolutely necessary. You can start playing with only two, but don't even try with less.

does this work up uppd

It works unupped altough the resoults will be slightly worse.

You absolutely MUST upgrade these :
6x Ray of light

You should really really upgrade these :
3x Lobotomozer
2x Light Dragon

After that, upgrading the Towers and Fractals is about equally important, they work without upgrades, but that would make the deck 1-2 turns slower so you'll take a bit more early losses.

Oh, and the Hopes work better un-upgraded actually.

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Duo-Decks / Re: Turbo-speed false god farming (statistics added, 5-6 upped cards per hour)

« on: July 11, 2010, 07:52:08 am »

Not only that, at what point were the games skipped, right at the start, or 3-4 turns into the match?  What criteria determines skipping a match?  Do you skip everything but perfect hands or just those you know you will lose for sure?  See my point?

Gods in the skip section are there because
-I've already played against them enough times to know they should be skipped (I've played them way before starting to record statistics (Morte, Gemini for example is in this category), the stats are from a single 4-5 hours of play session only)
-I've played against it a few times which confirmed my theory of why playing them is bad (Phoenix, Neptune)
-The god has cards in its deck that are impossible to handle with the deck anyway (Octane's Unstable Gas, Hermes's Fire Shield, Neptune's Flood, Graviton's Titan, Scorpio's Poison,etc)

There is an explanation on why to skip for every god in the skip section.

As for the when to skip question...anywhere from turn 1 to when it's obvious you can't win anymore. (skips after more than a few turns of playing were recorded as losses in the statistics)

Examples :
1.starting hand 3 fractals, 2 hopes, 1 tower, 1 rol, 1 elec.
This is playable, especially if you draw another tower, and play against a slower god. However, if your first 3 draws after this happen to be 2 more hopes and 1 fractal, and the god already played some big damage dealers or a large swarm of creatures, then it's time to quit.
2.starting hand 6 towers, 1 elec
This is also playable. If you don't manage to draw fractal, rol, or hope, you still have time to draw them. Even if you don't, it's a quick loss (the god will beat you down fast), not a slow one. Especially if you don't have a rol, you can target the one played by the false god if they played any.
3.starting hand 4 fractals, 2 hopes, 1 elec, 1 rol
This is not playable, skip on turn one, unless the opponent is a very slow one (Incarnate, Fire Queen). If the opponent is slow, you can fix up your hand by discarding extra copies of hopes first (and fractals if you need to).
4.starting hand without an elec, against Fire Queen, Elidnis, Osiris or Incarnate
Here, you give up only if you still don't have an elec when a pharaoh is in play (Osiris)
or still no elec and a slow start/suboptimal hand when the queen already has queens out and started filling the play area with creatures (Fire Queen)
or still no elec when creatures are already growing over your shield and/or your rays get loboed and there is no way to quickly finish the opponent with dragons (Elidnis)
or don't skip because you can win with holding rays in hand most of the time (Incarnate)

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Duo-Decks / Re: Turbo-speed false god farming (statistics added, 5-6 upped cards per hour)

« on: July 10, 2010, 07:33:26 am »

Also, while I do like this deck very much, I don't consider the testing method to be very accurate.  To truly test, play out every game, don't just skip ones that don't look promising.  I understand skipping is part of the deck's design, but it's not a proper way to test win ratios.  For testing purposes, bad draws should be a part of the win ratio, otherwise it's hard to compare between the false gods due to some gods being skipped more often and whatnot.  I believe any competent deck can win if you skip enough times to get a perfect draw while the opponent gets a really bad one.  It's just not a very accurate way of testing.

Overall win ratio is irrevelant for this deck.
If I play out every game, I can't test games won/hour because I'm wasting time on games I'm not supposed to play.
The purpose of the test was to
-find out how much electrum you can gain per hour
-find out which gods needs to be skipped in order to maximize that amount.
If you want a good win ratio, play another deck, or a variant of hope with shards. However, you'll get half or quarter of the electrum you can get that way, because you won't be skipping the long, time consuming games that might result in losses.

As for DreamCatcher, it's really random. I'll probably move it if I have more games played. Chaos Lord might be moved too, for similar reasons.

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Patch Notes and Development News / Re: Elements 1.24

« on: July 09, 2010, 11:56:26 am »

If this Miracle buff is true, it puts Rainbow into the Skip section as well for Rol/Hope. Way to go, 200 HP isn't enough for false gods, they need to have 1400 instead, sure.
Buffing AI is a good thing but nerf the gods first before doing that, or you might end up with too many unplayable gods...

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Duo-Decks / Re: Turbo-speed false god farming (statistics added, 5-6 upped cards per hour)

« on: July 09, 2010, 08:22:51 am »

I also have a much better win rate (80%) vs Ferox.  You just have to stop FractalingRoLs  once you get 12 Rays and concentrate entirely on pumping out 12 Dragons over 13 turns.  He has to get 6+ Bonds to overcome that kind of damage.

Ok, I've taken a look at his deck in the wiki.

There are 51 cards in his deck, 6 of them Feral Bonds. There is also a Jade Shield (-2 damage per dragon) and a Jade Staff (+5 healing), the rest is unimportant.
With 6 Bonds out of 51 cards, he draws a bond once every 8.5 cards on average. He draws 2 cards per turn, so that means 1 bond per 4.25 turns.
His starting hand has cards too, equaling 3 turns worth of cards drawn.
Overall, the number of bonds he has in play on average is (turn number+3)/4.25.

With 12 rays out, you have 11 space left for dragons.
11 dragons do 110 damage per turn over a Jade Shield. (He only has one in 51 cards, so he might not always draw it, but in about 60-70% of the games will, sooner or later)
Elec also does 3 damage, so your maximum damage output is 113.
5 bonds with a full field of creatures (we can safely assume he will get 23 creatures out by the time you finish playing the dragons) is 115 healing, more than our maximum damage output, and this is without a Jade Staff.
Playing the 11 dragons takes 12 turns, and it's safe to assume it also takes at least 6-8 turns to play the 12 rays and your hope : You have to fractal at least twice for that, and unless you drew 3+ towers, each fractal takes a minimum of 3 turns (If you play Elec, it is more)...plus you also need to draw those fractals, and a hope.

Overall, if it takes 18-20 turns, by the time you have those 11 dragons out, Ferox will have  (18+3)/4.25=4.94 to (20+3)/4.25=5.41 Bonds out, equaling or slightly going over the damage you cause.
If every game plays out according to the average scenario, losing would be certain, but of course it doesn't. Sometimes the number of Bonds are fewer, or he fails to draw a Jade Shield, and then you'll win. Pretty often you won't have a dragon in hand on turn 8-10 when you can play it, however, and in worst-case scenarios, they can be in the last 5-10 cards, in which case you lose almost certainly.

To summarize, if you have a 80% win rate, you were probably very lucky with him so far. Especially considering some of the games are usually lost to his early rushes, because he plays creatures very fast.

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Duo-Decks / Re: Turbo-speed false god farming (statistics added, 5-6 upped cards per hour)

« on: July 08, 2010, 07:46:50 am »

I agree with Delerium about Dream catcher, I don't really have any luck vs him. He drains your quanta with black hole and pests, usually gets discord out quickly, destroys pillars, kills a lot of your rays with shock wave/rage potion, etc. I don't have all my pillars upgraded yet though, so that might make a significant difference.

Speed is the key against Dreamcatcher. I was like 1 win to 4 losses ratio with the old version of the deck (8 towers and 1 shard), but 9 wins 2 losses 2 skips with 9 towers and no shard.
Few things to keep in mind when playing him
-don't play all your rays before the fractal. Keep at least on in hand
-if you got drained of your quanta before you can fractal in any way (quicksand+black hole, or discord, or too many pests, etc), skip. Otherwise you can fractal rays and from that point, winning is almost certain, as long as the AI is the way it is now. You'll know to play or skip in the first 3-4 turns usually, so you won't lose much time on it.
-Playing fractal before Elec is a good idea to speed up when you can, even if that means 1 fewer ray, it'll also mean one less turn risked...you are dead if a discord is played before your shield.

I can beat Gemini pretty, the games just take a while. I usually just get ~10 RoLs out, then fractal HIS phase spiders, which usually forces him into shield chaining, then eventually I have a hole where I can slam him with 50-60 damage. I win, or deck out.

This is exactly why he is in the skip section. The games are very long and outcome is uncertain. Playing him drops the farming efficiency by a lot. (even if it might increase the overall win/loss ratio, that's not part of this strategy, this is for electrum/upgraded card farming only)
Also, my deck uses 0 shards,so  his momentumed creatures might kill you in long term, and if he can lobotomize rays for 15-20 turns in a row, your hope won't protect you anymore and you'll die to damage a few turns before decking out.

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Duo-Decks / Re: Turbo-speed false god farming (statistics added, 5-6 upped cards per hour)

« on: July 07, 2010, 08:27:46 am »

I don't know why, but it didn't use the destroy and nymph abilities that often for me. Sometimes it was using them, but most of the time it wasn't. Unless it was changed in the past 3 days which sounds unlikely, you just had bad luck. I don't know what makes the AI use it, but it might be the number of rays in play...perhaps it's not using it when there are 10+ creatures out with 1 attack each to wait for something stronger.
It also forgets to destroy your electrocutor with butterfly effect often, which allows you to get rid of the nypmh's ability. What matters the most though is that it never destroyed my pillars during the test games using butterfly effect. If it would do that, I'd have kept it in the skip section.
Although I was skeptical at first, and expected major losses, I actually won 9 out of the 11 games I played (remaining 2 was lost to discord or quanta denial), which is the complete opposite of my many losses at earlier, unrecorded attempts (but in those games I almost always faced an early discord).

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Duo-Decks / Re: Turbo-speed false god farming

« on: July 05, 2010, 12:31:04 am »

I've updated my first two posts with statistics, and revised the individual god strategies!

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Strategy / Re: RoL+Fractal+Hope Strategy guide!

« on: July 04, 2010, 10:50:11 pm »

Its the "classification"(first page in this thread) from Seravy. Too I dont know how exactly his mod of the deck looks like.

I'm planning to revise that section after I've collected enough statistics. At least 3-4 gods will go to different categories than they are now. I haven't faced Ferox often enough yet to decide if it can be moved though. I also want to reduce the number of categories to just three (Easy, Playable, and Skip).

Easy, Medium, Hard, Impossible FG´s with RoL/Hope to show all FG´s are defeatable. Hermes I will get you!

You have two shards out on your pricture for Scorpio, meaning you aren't playing MY DECK. So those classifications don't apply to you. Scorpio is possible with 2 or more shards with luck, and actually not too hard with 4 or more. (Same for Morte and all of your other screenshots. There are like 3-4 shards everywhere, so you are obviously not playing my deck.)
My deck has 0 (old version had 1) shards.

As a comment on Finkel's version, isn't 7 towers in 32 cards way too few? I'm often rushed to death by gods even with my 9 towers in 30 cards and I don't even need to spend quanta on shards. Not to mention games I barely manage to win because I have only one tower for the first 4-5 turns.

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Duo-Decks / Re: Turbo-speed false god farming

« on: July 04, 2010, 08:27:23 am »

It gets the highest possible win rate on the gods it's supposed to beat easily. Shards are just in the way for that, they slow you down. Playing them costs quanta, which you don't have that many of, essentially allowing you to play your fractal a turn later only. Considering monsters played by gods often hit for more than 5, and they play many of them out fast, a shard can in no way heal for the amount of damage you take per turn, so it doesn't help but hinders the plan often. Other than the turn lost from spending quanta on a non-fractal spell, you also lose a turn by drawing the card...if you draw the shard, that means you didn't draw something else, most likely an aether tower, which are the cards I added instead of the shards.
4 hopes are necessary to avoid wasting time on setting up everything and then losing because you just didn't draw it in time. Even with 4 of them, there were times when I didn't draw any in the first 15 cards and lost. When I had only 3, I lost a considerable number of games to not drawing hope in time, about every third-fourth one or so. Such losses are against the concept of the deck, if you start playing, you are supposed to win, and losses should come from the early game, or auto quits (wrong god, clogged starting hand, no lobo where is it necessary)

Perhaps I should make some statistics, hmm...

Edit :
2.5 hours of playing with 30 games won so far (90 spins, 13 upgraded cards). I'll post detailed results after more playing, but I'll take a break for now.
So far a game won every 5 minutes on average, which is definitely the highest win rate/minute against false gods I have seen so far.

Edit # 2 :
4 hours of playing = 45 games won, 21 upgraded cards won, about 1500 score gained.
Average of 5 to 6 upgraded cards per hour = ~6000 Electrum per hour.
If anyone can make more than 6000 Electurm/hour with any false god farming deck, speak up and I'll change the topic title, until then, I claim the title for fastest electrum farming for my deck.

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Duo-Decks / Re: Turbo-speed false god farming

« on: July 03, 2010, 08:09:41 am »

No miracle. If you have light quanta, you'd want to play a hope instead of a miracle. And if you play the opponents you are supposed to play, you won't be taking damage after playing a hope anyway.
Also, a shard is better than a miracle. It only costs 2, so it can be played before you play your hope, and unlike miracle, it helps getting a masterity.
Overall though, it works better without any healing at all : You won't take damage after your hope is in play with enough rays...the key is if you can or cannot get there in time, and miracle doesn't help with that, it actually is in the way and reduces the number of rays you can generate.

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Duo-Decks / Re: Turbo-speed false god farming

« on: June 27, 2010, 03:08:09 pm »

I will. Actually sometimes I still have that one in, but usually I replace it with an additional tower, because most losses come from not enough quanta in time.

I'll also move Rainbow to another section.
I don't know if my luck is bad, or the AI, or his deck is changed, but even though I play one more tower, I lost a considerable number of games due to all of my towers being blown up and ending up too slow. He also is very time consuming to beat, and the chance to win a card isn't that good either.