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Offline TStar

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Re: Grid - Rules https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=25252.msg345445#msg345445
« Reply #36 on: June 03, 2011, 03:12:27 pm »
When the official grid will be posted?
It is already posted in the Round 1 topic.
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Offline ak65ala

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Re: Grid - Rules https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=25252.msg347019#msg347019
« Reply #37 on: June 06, 2011, 09:20:07 pm »
So, match-ups are random, not winners vs. winners, losers vs. losers....  This could make out some very one-sided matches down the road, where winners have the relics to spend and losers do not.  Also gives lucky RNG winners an 'easier' trek towards 1st, playing lesser relic holders... just an observation.

Offline TStar

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Re: Grid - Rules https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=25252.msg347225#msg347225
« Reply #38 on: June 07, 2011, 03:08:10 am »
So, match-ups are random, not winners vs. winners, losers vs. losers....  This could make out some very one-sided matches down the road, where winners have the relics to spend and losers do not.  Also gives lucky RNG winners an 'easier' trek towards 1st, playing lesser relic holders... just an observation.
The failure of the Swiss system in this type of event is that it ensures that either the top or second place player will win every single round.  This quickly creates an imbalance.  Several other current events have found this out the hard way, which is part of the reason I tried hard to convince Gyrodiot not to use a Swiss system.  People think it's more fair, and for some event types it is.  In a race type of event like this (get the most Relics) it actually makes it even harder to win once you fall behind a little.  Random pairing mean the top 4 players can all lose at once and the rest of the field can catch up at any time.  It gives players a better chance to win in the middle and later rounds while a Swiss system pretty much guarantees you'll be out.
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Offline ak65ala

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Re: Grid - Rules https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=25252.msg347243#msg347243
« Reply #39 on: June 07, 2011, 03:51:11 am »
So, match-ups are random, not winners vs. winners, losers vs. losers....  This could make out some very one-sided matches down the road, where winners have the relics to spend and losers do not.  Also gives lucky RNG winners an 'easier' trek towards 1st, playing lesser relic holders... just an observation.
The failure of the Swiss system in this type of event is that it ensures that either the top or second place player will win every single round.  This quickly creates an imbalance.  Several other current events have found this out the hard way, which is part of the reason I tried hard to convince Gyrodiot not to use a Swiss system.  People think it's more fair, and for some event types it is.  In a race type of event like this (get the most Relics) it actually makes it even harder to win once you fall behind a little.  Random pairing mean the top 4 players can all lose at once and the rest of the field can catch up at any time.  It gives players a better chance to win in the middle and later rounds while a Swiss system pretty much guarantees you'll be out.
Okay, I can see that.  I am also curious how 'out of control' the number of relics will become.  The first round there was a potential of 3 relics for a win.  This round, I see an 'easy' 15... I just don't want to see a point where the top few go "I have 45 relics, I can spend 10, have full upgraded decks, and win 25, where as my opponent can't...doesn't matter what cards I pick, full upgraded deck >> non-upgraded deck."  We'll have to see how it plays out I guess.  With risk come reward (earning the 15 this round and spending some in a gamble to earn a lot more) and those who put themselves out there will be the winners.  Again, some more comments and trying to understand how the game will be round 7, and how to prepare for it.

Re: Grid - Rules https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=25252.msg347271#msg347271
« Reply #40 on: June 07, 2011, 06:15:22 am »
Another question here: what happens with the special bonus relics when your opponent forfeits due to inactivity?  For example, say I pick cards and make a bunch of deadly 45+ card decks this round, but my opponent doesn't show up ... do I lose the possibility of 6 bonus relics as a result?  Would I still win the normal relics from that round based on my grid choices?

Offline GyrodiotTopic starter

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Re: Grid - Rules https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=25252.msg347309#msg347309
« Reply #41 on: June 07, 2011, 10:20:55 am »
Okay, I can see that.  I am also curious how 'out of control' the number of relics will become.  The first round there was a potential of 3 relics for a win.  This round, I see an 'easy' 15... I just don't want to see a point where the top few go "I have 45 relics, I can spend 10, have full upgraded decks, and win 25, where as my opponent can't...doesn't matter what cards I pick, full upgraded deck >> non-upgraded deck."  We'll have to see how it plays out I guess.  With risk come reward (earning the 15 this round and spending some in a gamble to earn a lot more) and those who put themselves out there will be the winners.  Again, some more comments and trying to understand how the game will be round 7, and how to prepare for it.
I had a hard time deciding how many upped cards must grant a Relic, without knowing how would look the Grid after some rounds. I based the 3 ups/Relic on an average 5 Relics/win. Not too many (unfair advantage to previous winner), not too few (too risky to use).

I am very concerned by the balance of the rules, but I can't know in advance how will evolve the Grid (that's completely chaotic). Moreover, that's the first time Grid is run so... we'll wait and see, and eventually balance stuff mid-event.

As for the forfeit rule, it has been created so as you can't gain more Relics than another player who played his/her match. Why no event bonus ? As event restrictions are optional, I thought of evaluating the minimum risk took by winners... and I came up with this. I agree we can find a better evaluation, but I actually hoped that there wouldn't be inactive players :P

Once again, I'll look very, very closely to the balance issues.
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Offline GyrodiotTopic starter

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Re: Grid - Rules https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=25252.msg352320#msg352320
« Reply #42 on: June 16, 2011, 05:06:31 pm »
I made an award icon... but as I'm a beginner in pixel art, feel free to improve it ^^



EDIT : Green version !

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