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Offline GGTopic starter

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Re: Vault Building https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=23510.msg304767#msg304767
« Reply #12 on: April 03, 2011, 06:07:33 pm »
well, assume this:
type A ruthless rushing > stall > type B rushtall (rush with control) > type A ruthless rushing...

so... 12, 4 of each category?
No. I'd like to have more rushes as most people would not expect rushes from gravity. I'll be on docs chat the entire day, and we'll make the vault once some people get there.
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Offline GGTopic starter

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Re: Vault Building https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=23510.msg304873#msg304873
« Reply #13 on: April 03, 2011, 09:03:41 pm »
I've chosen 12 decks to be in the vault for now:

Fractal charger (gen)
Hover over cards for details, click for permalink
Deck import code : [Select]
55k 55k 55k 55k 55k 55k 576 576 576 576 576 576 576 61o 61o 61o 61t 61t 61t 61t 61t 61t 622 622 745 745 745 745 745 80i 8pu


Quint fireeater trio
Hover over cards for details, click for permalink
Deck import code : [Select]
55k 55k 55k 55q 55q 55q 55u 55u 55u 55u 55u 576 576 576 576 61o 61o 61o 61o 61o 61o 61o 61t 61t 61t 61t 61t 621 621 621 8po


Cat titans (x2)
Hover over cards for details, click for permalink
Deck import code : [Select]
55k 55k 55k 55k 55k 55k 55k 55k 55k 55k 55k 55k 55k 55k 55s 55s 55s 55s 55s 55s 561 561 561 561 5oi 5oi 5oi 5oi 5oi 5oi 8pr


Voodoo acceleration
Hover over cards for details, click for permalink
Deck import code : [Select]
55k 55k 55k 55k 55k 55k 55k 55k 55k 55k 55k 55o 55o 55s 55s 55t 55t 55t 562 562 562 562 562 562 5v0 5v0 5v0 5v0 5v0 5v0 8pt


Nova grabby (Bhole)
Hover over cards for details, click for permalink
Deck import code : [Select]
4vh 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 52q 55k 55k 55k 55k 55k 55l 55l 55l 55l 55q 55q 55v 55v 576 576 590 590 590 590 590 5og 61q 8pm


Nova grabby (charger) x2
Hover over cards for details, click for permalink
Deck import code : [Select]
4vh 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 55k 55k 55k 55q 55q 55s 55s 55t 55t 55t 55t 55u 576 576 576 590 590 590 590 590 5c1 5og 61q 8pm


Antimatter stall
Hover over cards for details, click for permalink
Deck import code : [Select]
4vi 4vi 4vn 4vn 4vn 4vn 4vn 4vn 55m 55m 55m 55m 55m 55m 55t 55t 55t 562 562 562 562 576 576 576 576 576 576 576 576 576 576 576 576 576 8pj


Blessed oty
Hover over cards for details, click for permalink
Deck import code : [Select]
55k 55k 55k 55k 55k 55k 55k 55l 55l 55l 55l 55r 55r 55r 55r 576 576 576 576 576 5ld 5ld 5lf 5lf 5lf 5lf 5lf 5lf 5li 5li 8pq


Taters over easy (gen/lt)
Hover over cards for details, click for permalink
Deck import code : [Select]
55s 55s 55s 55s 55t 55t 576 576 576 576 576 576 576 576 576 576 5ld 5ld 5li 5li 5ll 5ll 5ll 5ll 74i 74i 74i 7n2 7n2 7n2 8pq


Ghosts /oty
Hover over cards for details, click for permalink
Deck import code : [Select]
55q 55q 55q 55q 55q 55r 55r 55r 576 576 576 576 576 576 576 576 576 576 576 576 5rk 5rk 5rk 5rk 5rk 5ru 5ru 5ru 5ru 5ru 8ps

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Offline GGTopic starter

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Re: Vault Building https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=23510.msg304885#msg304885
« Reply #14 on: April 03, 2011, 09:17:09 pm »
Timer added on the OP
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Offline thatnewguy

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Re: Vault Building https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=23510.msg305035#msg305035
« Reply #15 on: April 04, 2011, 01:51:35 am »
Decks we plan on taking: (may change quickly)
Fractal chargers
Code: [Select]
55k 55k 55k 55k 55k 55k 576 576 576 576 576 576 576 61o 61o 61o 61t 61t 61t 61t 61t 61t 622 622 745 745 745 745 745 80i
Quinted Fire eaters
Code: [Select]
55k 55k 55k 55q 55q 55q 55u 55u 55u 55u 55u 576 576 576 576 61o 61o 61o 61o 61o 61o 61o 61t 61t 61t 61t 61t 621 621 621
Catapult titans
Code: [Select]
55k 55k 55k 55k 55k 55k 55k 55k 55k 55k 55k 55k 55k 55k 55s 55s 55s 55s 55s 55s 561 561 561 561 5oi 5oi 5oi 5oi 5oi 5oi (x2)

Nova grabby
Code: [Select]
4vh 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 52q 55k 55k 55k 55k 55k 55l 55l 55l 55l 55q 55q 55v 55v 576 576 590 590 590 590 590 5og 61q
AM stall
Code: [Select]
4vi 4vi 4vn 4vn 4vn 4vn 4vn 4vn 55m 55m 55m 55m 55m 55m 55t 55t 55t 562 562 562 562 576 576 576 576 576 576 576 576 576 576 576 576 576
Blessed Oty (Om nom nom)
Code: [Select]
55k 55k 55k 55k 55k 55k 55k 55l 55l 55l 55l 55r 55r 55r 55r 576 576 576 576 576 5ld 5ld 5lf 5lf 5lf 5lf 5lf 5lf 5li 5li
Second nova grabby
Code: [Select]
4vh 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 4vj 55k 55k 55k 55q 55q 55s 55s 55t 55t 55t 55t 55u 576 576 576 590 590 590 590 590 5c1 5og 61q (maybe -1 spirit +1 grabby?)

Immophoenix
Code: [Select]
4vh 55k 55k 55k 55t 55t 55t 55u 55u 55u 55u 55u 55u 576 576 576 5c1 5f9 5f9 5f9 5f9 5f9 5f9 5fa 5fa 5fa 5fc 5fc 5og 61q
Ghastly nightly feeders
Code: [Select]
55q 55q 55q 55q 55q 55r 55r 55r 576 576 576 576 576 576 576 576 576 576 576 576 5rk 5rk 5rk 5rk 5rk 5ru 5ru 5ru 5ru 5ru
Oty Stalkers
Code: [Select]
52g 52g 52g 52g 52q 52q 52r 52r 52r 52r 52u 52u 52u 55k 55k 55k 55q 55q 55q 55q 55r 55r 55r 576 576 576 576 576 576 576
Discord/BH
Code: [Select]
4vc 4vc 4vc 4ve 4ve 4ve 4vf 4vf 4vl 4vl 4vl 4vl 50u 50u 50u 55k 55k 55t 55t 55t 55v 55v 55v 55v 55v 576 576 576 576 576
Voodoo Accel v2
Code: [Select]
55k 55k 55k 55k 55k 55k 55k 55k 55k 55k 55m 55m 55m 55t 55t 55t 55t 55t 562 562 562 562 562 5ur 5ur 5v0 5v0 5v0 5v0 5v0
With this we have EXACTLY 69 (hardy har har) cards left. This means we can take the guts for 3 other 30 card decks or just take cards that give more synergies that we can make decks based on what decks are listed above. I say we take 2 decks and with our remaining 30~ cards or so take synergy cards that will really make us fly in later rounds.


Discuss. I will update the vault tomorrow whenever I get home from work.
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Re: Vault Building https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=23510.msg305038#msg305038
« Reply #16 on: April 04, 2011, 02:00:27 am »
no wings...
considering how often grabbies will be used, I think some wings will be good

Offline thatnewguy

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Re: Vault Building https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=23510.msg305040#msg305040
« Reply #17 on: April 04, 2011, 02:02:18 am »
no wings...
considering how often grabbies will be used, I think some wings will be good
We have 69 left over cards, maybe take wings?
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Re: Vault Building https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=23510.msg305042#msg305042
« Reply #18 on: April 04, 2011, 02:08:38 am »
no wings...
considering how often grabbies will be used, I think some wings will be good
We have 69 left over cards, maybe take wings?
that's what I meant, take some wings with the 69 cards we have left over
and aside from that... some more gravity pillars/pends?

Offline TStar

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Re: Vault Building https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=23510.msg305146#msg305146
« Reply #19 on: April 04, 2011, 07:05:09 am »
Not really sure how to say this tactfully so I'll be blunt......I really hate the fault posted here.  I see a ton of broken decks.  I see us ignoring obvious synergies that are proven strong and effective.  I see lots of bad losses in many of these decks.

Fractal charger, Quint Fire Eater, Cat Titans are all keepers.  These suckers are proven and powerful.  Novagrabby works, although I think we should settle on the version that works best instead of trying to use two.  Blessed Oty and Voodoo Accel v2 are both solid situationally.  These decks can work.

Then there are decks I'm not sold on.  The AM deck looks like a loser to be honestly.  I don't see it rolling AM fast enough to keep up with most decks damage.  It might work but I'm just not sold on a shieldless stall nor a deck that relies on no momentumed creatures to get enough damage.  Immophoenix is a disaster waiting to happen.  Barring an outstanding draw you realistically won't even be able to use your first immo until the 3rd turn, and that's assuming you haven't been Discorded or outrushed already.  If we play this deck we'll have to get a very favorable matchup to avoid losing badly.  Ghastly night feeders I despise.  0|3 Otys are junk and I don't see many teams being stupid enough to give up 1 and 2 HP critters to feed on.  No we have some momentum to try and pump us up and GotP+RT but no Eternity's.  This deck just doesn't seem to work as is and would probably be better as a Dune Scorp deck with Eternity's.  But by far the worst deck is Oty Stalkers.  4 Momentum to power 6 creatures, and a complete reliance on otys eating to maintain any semblence of life and bone wall size.  I can't even think of many decks that would be strong against honestly.

What I'm seeing are a bunch of decks that will get crushed by a speed poison deck or a neurotoxin/RT deck.  Why have we completely ignored a deck type that almost every element used last war?  We don't have any purifies or counters really.  I'm also very confused about how we've completely ignored the most powerful synergy we have in earth.  Why don't we have any Pulvy decks?  Where are the EQ/BH decks?  Why are we ignoring the powerful Gravity Shield/BB combo?  Heck, we could put a Warden stall to amazing effect if we tried!  I feel like we are throwing away our strengths to try and be novel, but new and different isn't always better.  I see tons of people every weekend in the tournies trying to do something new and complex, and it works on occasion.  But the winning decks, especially for me, always seem to be the ones who keep it simple and play to the established strengths.  It's ok to roll something new and throw a curveball from time-to-time, but it's not ok to completely ditch the reliable fastballs in the process.

We have 1 day to really decide if these new decks are better than the simple and reliable ones already out there.  Think about it people, because I'm really starting to think we are setting ourselves up for failure right now with some of these choices.  Anyways, that's just my 2 cents.
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Re: Vault Building https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=23510.msg305163#msg305163
« Reply #20 on: April 04, 2011, 07:43:31 am »
Not really sure how to say this tactfully so I'll be blunt......I really hate the fault posted here.  I see a ton of broken decks.  I see us ignoring obvious synergies that are proven strong and effective.  I see lots of bad losses in many of these decks.

Fractal charger, Quint Fire Eater, Cat Titans are all keepers.  These suckers are proven and powerful.  Novagrabby works, although I think we should settle on the version that works best instead of trying to use two.  Blessed Oty and Voodoo Accel v2 are both solid situationally.  These decks can work.

Then there are decks I'm not sold on.  The AM deck looks like a loser to be honestly.  I don't see it rolling AM fast enough to keep up with most decks damage.  It might work but I'm just not sold on a shieldless stall nor a deck that relies on no momentumed creatures to get enough damage.  Immophoenix is a disaster waiting to happen.  Barring an outstanding draw you realistically won't even be able to use your first immo until the 3rd turn, and that's assuming you haven't been Discorded or outrushed already.  If we play this deck we'll have to get a very favorable matchup to avoid losing badly.  Ghastly night feeders I despise.  0|3 Otys are junk and I don't see many teams being stupid enough to give up 1 and 2 HP critters to feed on.  No we have some momentum to try and pump us up and GotP+RT but no Eternity's.  This deck just doesn't seem to work as is and would probably be better as a Dune Scorp deck with Eternity's.  But by far the worst deck is Oty Stalkers.  4 Momentum to power 6 creatures, and a complete reliance on otys eating to maintain any semblence of life and bone wall size.  I can't even think of many decks that would be strong against honestly.

What I'm seeing are a bunch of decks that will get crushed by a speed poison deck or a neurotoxin/RT deck.  Why have we completely ignored a deck type that almost every element used last war?  We don't have any purifies or counters really.  I'm also very confused about how we've completely ignored the most powerful synergy we have in earth.  Why don't we have any Pulvy decks?  Where are the EQ/BH decks?  Why are we ignoring the powerful Gravity Shield/BB combo?  Heck, we could put a Warden stall to amazing effect if we tried!  I feel like we are throwing away our strengths to try and be novel, but new and different isn't always better.  I see tons of people every weekend in the tournies trying to do something new and complex, and it works on occasion.  But the winning decks, especially for me, always seem to be the ones who keep it simple and play to the established strengths.  It's ok to roll something new and throw a curveball from time-to-time, but it's not ok to completely ditch the reliable fastballs in the process.

We have 1 day to really decide if these new decks are better than the simple and reliable ones already out there.  Think about it people, because I'm really starting to think we are setting ourselves up for failure right now with some of these choices.  Anyways, that's just my 2 cents.
I agree with most of this. 

I don't like unupped oty's that much.  The immophoenix is way to inconsistant.  The desthstalker deck looks to seriously lack damage with 4 stalkers for attackers.  The GotP deck definately works, but I'm not so sure about the oty support.  The deck is strong versus immo or nova decks, but the stalkers must be buffed to eat a shrieker.  I know the dune scorpion deck is effective versus several entropy decks, maybe we should explore that more. and yes, 1 uniform novagrabby version will make thing 100% easier.

I also think we need atleast 2 earth duos.  Earth in one of the best synergies we have and I'm always a fan of using our strongest decks and making them beat us.  Pulvy is an absolute must for our arsenal and we need a few decks built around it to really maximive our efforts.  Earthquake, warden + momentum, grav shield + BB, cat + BB, armor + oty.  All ideas we should explare before we settle on a final vault.

I'd also like to roll a wings deck as it rolls over several elements when used at the right time.  I like dragon blitz, but that doesn't seem to be a popular choice.

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Re: Vault Building https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=23510.msg305194#msg305194
« Reply #21 on: April 04, 2011, 10:50:51 am »
Quint Fire Eaters, Cat Titans, Novagrabby, and Voodoo Acceleration V2 are keepers for sure.  Fractal chargers is there but imho might be taking the space of a better deck, should we find one, since its designed for GG, being crappy with the chargers unupgraded. 

Also, the vault started at 480, as I have last read in the What will be different in War 3 thread, so we have 480-49+12=443 cards space.
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The New Card Theory Thread

Offline GGTopic starter

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Re: Vault Building https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=23510.msg305208#msg305208
« Reply #22 on: April 04, 2011, 11:52:51 am »
The decks we keep:

Fractal chargers (General only) x1
Quinted Fireeaters x1
Catapult Titans
Novagrabby Bhole version x2
Voodoo acceleration x1


Adding new decks (haven't been completely designed yet; mostly copied from last war):

Deathstalker (note : probably modify it to make it bonewall based)
Code: [Select]
52g 52g 52o 52o 52o 52o 52o 52q 52q 52u 52u 52u 52u 52u 52u 55k 55k 55k 55k 55m 55m 55q 55q 55q 55q 55q 576 576 576 576
Neurotoxin
Code: [Select]
55k 55k 55k 55k 55k 55k 55k 55l 55l 55l 55l 55q 55q 55q 55q 55q 576 576 576 576 576 5rk 5rk 5rk 5rk 5rt 5rt 5rt 5rt 5rt
Adrenamercs (probably gonna be general/Lt use only though)
Hover over cards for details, click for permalink
Deck import code : [Select]
55k 55k 55k 55k 55n 55n 55n 55n 55n 576 576 576 576 576 576 5bs 5bs 5c2 5c2 5c2 5c2 5c7 5c7 5c7 5c7 5c7 5c8 5c8 5c8 5c8 8pn


Immophoenix
Code: [Select]
55m 55m 55u 55u 55u 55u 55u 55u 576 576 576 576 576 576 576 576 576 576 576 576 5f6 5f6 5f8 5f8 5f9 5f9 5fc 5fc 5fc 5fc
(some sort of EQ/warden deck; we will pack pulvy as extra cards)

(some sort of wings deck)


Extra cards to pack:

:darkness Devourer, steal
:earth Pulvy, warden
:entropy moar discords, novas
:death arsenics
:gravity titans, accels
:life ?
:fire deflags
:water freezes, MAYBE purify
:light holy lights, blessings
:air shockwave, fog, wings
:time RT
:aether lightning, moar phase shields


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Re: Vault Building https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=23510.msg305241#msg305241
« Reply #23 on: April 04, 2011, 01:29:58 pm »
just a thought
momentum oty has 4 hp, shrieker has 3...
could be useful if we pick up just a few otys, they can be used by GG and jimmy too (upgraded)

 

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