Round 5 discussion

[dragonsdemesne]

I think quite strongly that we should dump the three sundials and keep three cards out of black hole, ambers, fahren or phoenix.  We can't even use the dials unless we up them, or put them in a 3 nova bow, or use a time mark, and we have no time or light cards except for those three dials.  Personally, I'd like to keep the ambers and black hole so that DBH is still viable.  I think we can get by on five phoenixes in the fire duo, and the fahrenheit isn't really important, and can be replaced by titan if we aren't using catatitans.

[trashduke]

That works for me.  We do have 4 black holes, but 5 is better.  In terms of the Amber nymphs, I think you are the only one who has any, but I'm fine keeping them too.  So here's the new conversion list:

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Deck import code : [Select]

576 576 55l 55l 55t 55u 5f7 5fc 5rp 5rp 5rp

I'll see if I can get some testing done on the decks we have loaded - hopefully I'll post some comments soon.

[trashduke]

OK just did a 20 game run with Fractal chargers vs. the 2nd darkness deck (probably the stronger of the two vs. us); went 60%.  I saved lightnings for dragons and upped gargoyles, which seemed a pretty good strategy. Most games were very close, vagger really slows down the opening-mid game for our deck.

I'll test Catatitans now.

[trashduke]

Woof.  Catatitans won 3 and lost 7.... A little worse than the previous test I ran, but in any case it's not looking like a good match up for us.  I'm wiped for the night, but I'll see if the DBH fares any better tomorrow.

[trashduke]

And I ran out of time to make the change.  Not sure DBH would have done much better, but that's a shame that we predicted the decks quite well, but couldn't counter them....

In terms of salvage from the Darkness win, it will depend who we are facing, but I'm thinking: one steal (we have 3 so that would make 4), two daggers and two gargoyles (maybe convert). We've got a decent cache of darkness cards for a duo and we could bring in upped animate weapon to get some flying vaggers... might be fun.
something like:

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Deck import code : [Select]

55k 55k 55k 55k 55k 55m 55m 576 576 576 576 576 576 5up 5up 5up 5up 5v1 5v1 745 745 745 747 747 747 7n2 7n2 7tb 7tb 7tb 8pt

In terms of cards to save from our catatitans - I think sadly we have to see the deck as no longer viable (can't save all titans and animate weapons). We have some novas so we could keep the fog shield, some animate weapons (if we use the flying daggers idea) and a titan or two? I'll think about this more.

[dragonsdemesne]

I was actually thinking something along those lines, but I don't think we should salvage gargoyles; I think we should salvage the dusk shield and run it upped in a darkness duo if we go that route.

As for the catatitan deck, how many cards do we have to discard from it?  I'll give my suggestions after knowing what we can keep from it, but yeah, unless we can salvage at least 15, we will lose something from titan/AW/catapult which will make it no longer viable.  And if that is the case, we'll have to make some difficult decisions.

[trashduke]

The dusk shield would be good... I was thinking upped is too expensive, but unupped isn't bad.

We have to drop 24 cards from the original deck, so what 6 cards to keep is really the question.

[dragonsdemesne]

Oof.  Then there is no hope that we can keep catatitans.  We have a few possibilities.  One would be to keep mostly flying weapons, which gives us a reasonable deck with our discords or vampire daggers (more of which we can salvage from darkness, too), another would be to keep armagios and catapults and play a slightly modded fractal charger thing, where we have  fractal armagiopult/charger, which might be stronger against some decks, but weaker against others.  Our three novas are insufficient to make a novabow, unless we get some via salvage later on, so I think the fog shield is useless at this point.  No more than 2 titans are useful to us, maybe 1 per deck at maximum, but I'm not even sure we should bother with them.

I'd say we have the following viable salvage possibilities, depending on how we want to proceed.
2 armagio, 2-3 catapult, 1-2 flying weapon
3 flying weapon, 1-2 titan, 1-2 armagio

For our darkness salvage, I think we should take the dusk shield, both steals, both stilettos, and then it doesn't matter, probably a gargoyle that will get converted anyway.  I see little to no room for negotiation on this salvage; I cannot think of any logical reason to do anything else.

[trashduke]

Oof.  Then there is no hope that we can keep catatitans.  We have a few possibilities.  One would be to keep mostly flying weapons, which gives us a reasonable deck with our discords or vampire daggers (more of which we can salvage from darkness, too), another would be to keep armagios and catapults and play a slightly modded fractal charger thing, where we have  fractal armagiopult/charger, which might be stronger against some decks, but weaker against others.  Our three novas are insufficient to make a novabow, unless we get some via salvage later on, so I think the fog shield is useless at this point.  No more than 2 titans are useful to us, maybe 1 per deck at maximum, but I'm not even sure we should bother with them.

I'd say we have the following viable salvage possibilities, depending on how we want to proceed.
2 armagio, 2-3 catapult, 1-2 flying weapon
3 flying weapon, 1-2 titan, 1-2 armagio

For our darkness salvage, I think we should take the dusk shield, both steals, both stilettos, and then it doesn't matter, probably a gargoyle that will get converted anyway.  I see little to no room for negotiation on this salvage; I cannot think of any logical reason to do anything else.

That salvage makes sense to me - the only reason to consider one different card for salvage would be if we wanted to transmute 2 cards into one in-element card (i.e the Gargoyle + something else = catapult or whatever gravy card we need).  Are we missing anything in-element?  Otherwise I agree and we can convert the gargoyle into a pillar/pend.

We still have a strong DBH, so I'd think we would keep the discords for that, but the flying vaggers might be fun. Why don't we try to plan our best decks for the matches with time and entropy and then see which cards are most useful for those.

[dragonsdemesne]

Hmm, I forgot about transmuting.  It means we could get in theory any three gravity cards as salvage from darkness (or whatever combination of darkness + transmutation) which might allow for some interesting ideas, but would not allow us to keep catatitans even then.

Otyugh and gravity shield are the missing (useful) gravity cards that come to mind that we lack.