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Offline dragonsdemesneTopic starter

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Round 1 discussion https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=56083.msg1160488#msg1160488
« on: October 14, 2014, 11:30:51 pm »
General Captain Scibra vs Tiko  :death
Drake XIV vs rem4life  :light
Rutarete vs General Calindu  :entropy
dragonsdemesne vs bripod  :earth
skyironsword vs dm1321  :aether
trashduke vs avenger  :fire

Discuss predictions, etc here.  First round's always the toughest, as there is no information to base things on.

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Re: Round 1 discussion https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=56083.msg1160512#msg1160512
« Reply #1 on: October 15, 2014, 01:31:26 am »
vs :death - I think catatitans could work quite well here.  We might want to use that against aether, though, due to dimshields.  However, conversely aether might not bother with dims against us because of all our momentum.  Their poison could get around dials easy enough, but I think catatitans is faster than, say, bonebolt or pandebonium or something like that.

vs :light - I'd say something rushy with elite chargers, in case they run a hope deck.  Light is often pretty slow.  Apparently we didn't take gravity shield for some reason, or we should run that for dragons/nymphs after rol/hope fractal.

vs :entropy - Black hole could be pretty devastating if they run novabow or SNbow, but for that reason they might not do it.  I'm really not sure what to do here, given our vault.  I think we'll need something with pretty good CC, and reasonably fast as well.  I think we should use the bone wall deck here, because gravity pull can take out amethyst dragons, and we'd look pretty stupid using lightnings against those.  Also, bone wall works well against creature decks like grabbow, and it also helps a lot against discord.

vs  :earth - Due to earthquake, let me use my two mark of gravity here unless I'm running all pends.  The grabbow thing applies here, too, since it's as viable for earth as for entropy.  Given the traditional reverse time vs gravity hatred, though, I think that perhaps we should look at them possibly using a graboid/RT rush.  I'm going to recommend the firefly queen/hope deck for this one.  We'll have a totally bonkers quanta split, especially with two marks in the mix.  We'll have black hole if they do run grabbow, and against something like graboid/RT, we'll be able to control to a large degree when they can use RT.

vs  :aether - Lightnings, dims, psiontal, all very real and very dangerous possibilities.  We didn't take any deflags or steals, so we'll have to either play around dimshield, pray they don't use it, or try the pulvy deck.  (I'd love to see some testing of the pulvy vs psiontal)  If the pulvy deck works in this matchup, I'd say take it.  EQ messes with psiontal quanta which they desperately need, since psiontal often runs at least 50% quanta, and pulvy will wreck dims.  We don't really have to worry about dimshield stalling out accelerated golems once pulvy is down.  Our golems are also quite lightning resistant, even with acceleration.

vs  :fire - I'm inclined to rush their ass with that gravition guard novabow.  It's got a ton of CC-resistant creatures in the form of burrowed graboids and guards, and has momentum for bypassing fireshield if they run that.  With phoenixes being a real possibility I'd just say screw the lack of CC on our part and hope for the best.

Feel free to critique at will, but that's my take on things.  I'm not sure who the lieutenants are, but we can adjust that person's deck accordingly.  The extra ups on the part of Captain Scibra's catatitans, assuming you follow my recommendation, are unfortunately rather wasted, but they'd probably be best used on quanta.

Offline dragonsdemesneTopic starter

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Re: Round 1 discussion https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=56083.msg1160513#msg1160513
« Reply #2 on: October 15, 2014, 01:38:02 am »
Oh, as for the event card, do we just have to guess whether we win or lose, or do we have to guess the scoreline as well?  If the former, I'm up for predicting some.  If the latter, it's mostly a crapshoot unless we think we're going to use or suffer a hard counter and call a 3-0 or 0-3.

edit: Create a post in your secret board listing, for each match your team is playing, how much you bet & whether you're betting on a win or a loss. You are not betting on the W-L result.

You are only betting on your team's 6 matches. Bet for each of match must be 3, 6, or 9 cards. Bets are compulsory.

Discards for lost bets will be taken from the vault, not the deck used in the matchup. You do not need to specify which cards you are betting, just how many.
You do not lose any cards for correct bets.

So we only have to pick if we win or not.  We don't have to guess by how much.  I'm not sure of my confidence level on some of these, but I'll let you guys decide; I'm up for wagering any/all/nothing, as needed.

Offline trashduke

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Re: Round 1 discussion https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=56083.msg1160515#msg1160515
« Reply #3 on: October 15, 2014, 02:34:48 am »
Thanks for the analysis dragon - that's quite helpful.

vs. Fire, Gravity has a pretty good track record of running bone wall duos, and flying titans (either catatitans or overdriven).  I'll do some testing with the nova-merc build, see how it goes, and edit this tonight.



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Re: Round 1 discussion https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=56083.msg1160519#msg1160519
« Reply #4 on: October 15, 2014, 03:16:23 am »
Yeah, bone walls should be pretty good against Fire, but I'm not sure what to use against Entropy, then.  Same thing if we move the catatitans off of Death and put it against Fire.

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Re: Round 1 discussion https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=56083.msg1160528#msg1160528
« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2014, 05:33:15 am »
Yeah, bone walls should be pretty good against Fire, but I'm not sure what to use against Entropy, then.  Same thing if we move the catatitans off of Death and put it against Fire.

Yeah, that's a good point. Bone wall has done well vs. entropy in the past. No fractal, means no chargetal, so Bone wall does seem like the best option vs. entropy.

My initial tests with the merc-nova-bow are pretty mixed: 60% vs. Fractix, 50% vs. strong mono, 90% vs a stall; 40 games total.  It's very RNG determined both whether I got the nova and whether the haxx shield worked. Ai is also pretty dumb with wasting Fire bolts that don't kill a creature, so real results may be even lower than this.  Could almost always use more gravy quanta, and I usually had plenty of earth quanta....

Mods: Maybe swap in an armagio to buy 1 more turn as many of the games were close. Also seemed to have more earth quanta than needed, so could maybe use 2 pillars vs. pends.  I'll do some testing with those tweaks. 

I also want to test Rutarete's aceller-armagios (and adding overdrive if I can balance quanta better), as that might do better (CC resistance).
« Last Edit: October 15, 2014, 05:35:19 am by trashduke »
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Re: Round 1 discussion https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=56083.msg1160557#msg1160557
« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2014, 03:50:04 pm »
I'm not sure what Scibra has planned, but yeah, there's a lot of cards I thought of as vault staples like Fractal that we didn't take.  If Captain Scibra or anyone else wants to weigh in on their deck choices for round 1, that would be great.  If we can win a bunch of early games and get some good salvages on things we're missing, I think we can do well, but the early rounds are really going to tell it all for us.

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Re: Round 1 discussion https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=56083.msg1160572#msg1160572
« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2014, 08:26:12 pm »
Anyone else alive besides trashduke?  :P

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Re: Round 1 discussion https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=56083.msg1160578#msg1160578
« Reply #8 on: October 15, 2014, 09:03:43 pm »
I'm actually dead from a midterm I took today. I was studying while you guys were discussing
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Re: Round 1 discussion https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=56083.msg1160583#msg1160583
« Reply #9 on: October 15, 2014, 11:03:10 pm »
 :death


 :light


 :entropy


 :earth
One possibility here is the Accel Golem deck - fight EQ with EQ. But if it is this deck against earth, give it some extra upgrades for pillars/pends for that little extra speed.

 :aether
I think either the Poison Charger deck or the FFQ deck would be a good choice here - Poison and momentum both get past possible dim. shields, whereas the FFQ deck can guard against the high-power immaterial creatures with Hope (pretty reliably, since FFQ have a lot of hp and Aether doesn't have mass CC to deal with the fireflies).

 :fire
Rather than what Dragons said, (graviton guard novabow), I think the Phoenix-Gravity Pull deck would be more reliable against Fire's CC. It's stall resistant from bolts, CC-resistant from phoenixes, and has it's own CC. Compared to the novabow, this looks like it doesn't have to worry about CC that much.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2014, 11:05:33 pm by Rutarete »
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Re: Round 1 discussion https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=56083.msg1160586#msg1160586
« Reply #10 on: October 15, 2014, 11:47:24 pm »
 :earth - This might work even against a grabbow, and given that most grabbows are going to have only one type of quanta producer, like earth pendulum, they're less resistant to earthquake than, say, a grabbow for league play.  It's also got some pretty good CC resistance since golems are fat, and we could even sneak in a few cheap kills against things like lycan or forest spirit by dropping acceleration on it :p (if done immediately)  Our pulvy deck would also do well against the stoneskin/miracle stall thing, because those are heavily quanta and permanent reliant, and we'd just nuke everything.

 :aether - I really disagree on FFQ for this one, because I don't think aether has shown much use of immortals or phase dragons in previous wars, or at least not in any matches I remember.  They have, however, shown lots of psions.  Poison charger might be viable, but because charger dies to lightning, I'm somewhat hesitant to do that here.

 :fire - That one's an interesting choice.  I think that the phoenix/gpull deck would fall flat against firestall, for instance, but because we're gravity and our stuff is fat, they are less likely to actually try firestall against us in the first place.  (I mindgate your mindgate and counter your mindgate with mindgate...)

And yes, studying for midterms is more important than gaming.  Trust me on this one... :p  I once got something like 35% on a calculus midterm because an hour before the exam, I was gaming, lol.

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Re: Round 1 discussion https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=56083.msg1160587#msg1160587
« Reply #11 on: October 16, 2014, 12:02:13 am »
:aether FFQ - Fair enough, as I haven't studied all their card usage from previous wars.
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