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Offline Avenger

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Re: Shard of Focus https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=35191.msg443569#msg443569
« Reply #24 on: December 30, 2011, 12:48:39 pm »
The ability really doesn't related much to Gravity. One obvious example: this + Rage pots.

I bet it is going to get a major change.
So what, this + acceleration is working too.

Offline plastiqe

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Re: Shard of Focus https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=35191.msg443590#msg443590
« Reply #25 on: December 30, 2011, 02:43:52 pm »
I do not like Shards because they are Other cards.  The fact that some are loosely tied to using a specific Mark doesn't stop Rainbow decks from taking full advantage of a Shard and still having access to every other card in the game.

Shard of Focus is cheap, reusable PC for all Elements.  Compare to Pulverizer, which requires a significant investment in two types of quanta, takes up your Weapon slot and would in turn now be vulnerable to a cheaper, harder to destroy creature shard.

I do not like the creature stats.  Adding more ginourmous hit point cards just puts more emphasis on CC that ignores creature defenses.

Adding a Black Hole to your hand is just icing on the cake.  Mono decks with no :gravity won't care, the cheap, reusable PC is worth it even if you end up with a dead card in your hand.

Heh, maybe I just got up on the wrong side of the bed for card reviewing this morning.  : P  I think everyone can agree that more PC is needed, and Gravity is a good place to put it.  For starters this I would like this Shard a lot more if it was reworked to require an actual investment in :gravity quanta.  I would like it better if all the Shards just became cards of their Element.

Offline Shantu

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Re: Shard of Focus https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=35191.msg443592#msg443592
« Reply #26 on: December 30, 2011, 02:52:04 pm »
I do not like Shards because they are Other cards.  The fact that some are loosely tied to using a specific Mark doesn't stop Rainbow decks from taking full advantage of a Shard and still having access to every other card in the game.

Shard of Focus is cheap, reusable PC for all Elements.  Compare to Pulverizer, which requires a significant investment in two types of quanta, takes up your Weapon slot and would in turn now be vulnerable to a cheaper, harder to destroy creature shard.

I do not like the creature stats.  Adding more ginourmous hit point cards just puts more emphasis on CC that ignores creature defenses.

Adding a Black Hole to your hand is just icing on the cake.  Mono decks with no :gravity won't care, the cheap, reusable PC is worth it even if you end up with a dead card in your hand.

Heh, maybe I just got up on the wrong side of the bed for card reviewing this morning.  : P  I think everyone can agree that more PC is needed, and Gravity is a good place to put it.  For starters this I would like this Shard a lot more if it was reworked to require an actual investment in :gravity quanta.  I would like it better if all the Shards just became cards of their Element.
I wholeheartedly agree with this whole post.

Offline dragonsdemesne

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Re: Shard of Focus https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=35191.msg443608#msg443608
« Reply #27 on: December 30, 2011, 05:16:07 pm »
I'd already posted in the 1.30 topic about this card, but I'll add a few things here.

Having colourless permanent removal isn't necessarily a bad thing.  However, it should be weaker than any mono removal, as compensation for ease of use, with the exception of the shard's element.  (like how SoG is weaker than Sanctuary or Feral Bond, or how SoD is weaker than heal, unless you are using the shard-specific mark)  Going by that criterion, this card should be weaker than butterfly effect in nongravity decks.

What this card is, however, is much, much stronger.  It destroys 4 permanents for one thing, and that's assuming you don't abuse it with things like Eternity, Grey Nymph, Gravity Pull, Fractal, Red Nymph, Twin Universe, Fractal, etc.  It's dirt cheap for another.  It's cheaper than butterfly effect, pulverizer, costs the same as deflagration and one less than steal.  It has only two drawbacks, one being that it takes one turn to start working (which is a good thing, and should be kept) and that it is vulnerable to creature removal.  However, that last is mostly meaningless; with 15hp, the best you can hope to do is delay it with something like rewind or maybe instakill it with gravity pull if you've got a lot of creatures out.  Lobotomy is probably the only really good counter to this.  (or permanentless immorush :p Which is a deck I do -not- want to encourage)

Butterfly Effect and Pulverizer are completely outclassed by this.  They both have a 1 turn delay as well (unless BE is played on a creature without summoning sickness) and cost way more quanta to use.  They are also easier to deal with than SoF.  BE you can kill the creature, usually easily, since it has to be small, pulvy you can use removal on, and it's quanta intensive, but SoF has very few answers; as I mentioned, the only really good one I can think of is lobotomy, although basilisk blood would work, too.  Even cards like deflagration are outclassed by this; the only advantage deflag has over this is that it's faster.  Heck, this card even overshadows Earthquake, and that's an OP card already.  You could play this on turn 1 even in unupped play with nova, and smash one pillar every turn.  Even if your opponent holds back pillars until this is gone, that's four turns you get where the opponent is playing around one card to their serious detriment.

This card has versatility and power.  It's very cheap in quanta, it's very hard to deal with, and any deck can use it.  It makes SoSa look downright bad, and that's something in itself, given how I feel about that card.

Think about the following changes to the metagame:
BAD:
-every deck will be able to play this card on turn 1 with nova or towers, and if you do, your opponent is going to either lose their pillars right away, or they have to play around it and probably lose anyway because of the huge disadvantage that causes.
-all other permanent removal except in some cases steal (and that only because of the steal part) will be replaced by this in >90% of decks
-monoearth will have twelve cards to destroy pillars with (and SoF has the flexibility to destroy other cards, too)
-pillarless immorush will gain power as it is a counter to this, and it's already a powerful, albeit unreliable, deck.
GOOD:
-lobotomy and basilisk blood will increase in usage
-all elements have PC (unfortunately, too strong pc)

Next post will have possible edits to the card (this one's too long)

Offline petersenk

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Re: Shard of Focus https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=35191.msg443609#msg443609
« Reply #28 on: December 30, 2011, 05:16:47 pm »
I don't like it at all, that a shard can be a creature on the field.
But it is very nice to see Zanz at work again! ;)

^^ Happy new year and stuff  ;D

Offline dragonsdemesne

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Re: Shard of Focus https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=35191.msg443612#msg443612
« Reply #29 on: December 30, 2011, 05:36:06 pm »
Possible suggestions to make Shard of Focus more balanced, some of which I explain in more depth in the 1.30 thread: (more than one option will be needed to balance it)

-have it target random permanents (possibly even your own)
-have it target the highest cost permanent (possibly even your own)
-have it target the lowest cost permanent (possibly even your own)
-disallow targeting pillars/pends/marks to prevent turn 1 abuse and having games decided by coinflip
-reduce the hp (and redo hp gain/death trigger as a consequence) so that it is killable in more ways like shockwave, fire bolt, etc
-have it destroy less than 4 permanents (1 or maybe 2)
-have it cost much more quanta than 3, like 9 // 7, because off-element removal should cost an arm and a leg

The idea of getting a black hole after it works is an interesting take on making it better in gravity.  While there is nothing wrong with that, what about either of these suggestions, both of which are assuming some of my reworks would be used: (I really like my first one btw!)

-give a buff to all graviton creatures (gravition mercenary/guard and graviton fire eater/master) like more attack/defense or momentum or something
-if you have gravity mark, lasts 1 more turn

A more balanced version of Shard of Focus might look something like:
Cost = 8 // 6
Attack/Defense = 0/4
Text = Accretion: Destroy the highest cost nonpillar/pend/mark permanent your opponent has in play.  After this card has been in play for two turns, destroy it.  +1 turns to live if your mark is gravity.

or

Cost = 6 // 5
A/D = 0/4
Text = Accretion: Destroy the highest cost nonpillar/pend/mark permanent in play each turn.  All gravitons in play get +1/+1 and momentum.

or

Cost = 8 // 6
A/D = 0/3
Text = Accretion: Destroy a random nongravity permanent each turn.  SoF has its maximum hp reduced by 1 each turn, and cannot have its hp increased in any way.

Offline agentflare

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Re: Shard of Focus https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=35191.msg443616#msg443616
« Reply #30 on: December 30, 2011, 06:15:03 pm »
Looks way too OP. Only BB counters this. It cost 3 quanta and has (effectively) reusable PC? It needs to be reworked. Badly.

Offline rickerd

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Re: Shard of Focus https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=35191.msg443623#msg443623
« Reply #31 on: December 30, 2011, 06:58:17 pm »
Way too Op, it will even make life stronger
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Offline Hyroen

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Re: Shard of Focus https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=35191.msg443628#msg443628
« Reply #32 on: December 30, 2011, 07:18:43 pm »
On another slightly unrelated note, does this card "turn into" Black Hole? And if so, does it count as a death trigger?
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Offline Naesala

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Re: Shard of Focus https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=35191.msg443629#msg443629
« Reply #33 on: December 30, 2011, 07:22:54 pm »
On another slightly unrelated note, does this card "turn into" Black Hole? And if so, does it count as a death trigger?
I think we get a death trigger, but the black hole is added to the hand.
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Offline Atico

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Re: Shard of Focus https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=35191.msg443630#msg443630
« Reply #34 on: December 30, 2011, 07:23:21 pm »
-have it destroy less than 4 permanents (1 or maybe 2)
This can be also nerf as buff for SoF. Few SoF on field, clear AI Pillar/Towers and BlackHole in hand after 2 turns (now is after 4). Opponent hasn't got pillars, quantum and You have a lot of BlackHoles in 30 cards deck (24 BH in Arena! = BH every turn?) and max HP (because BlackHole works as heal). Add Discord and Maxwell to kill creatures which AI put on field and we have the best antiFG deck ;) Add Antimatter instead Maxwell and we have antiFG with EM.

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Re: Shard of Focus https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=35191.msg443635#msg443635
« Reply #35 on: December 30, 2011, 08:06:04 pm »
Am I the only one trying to formulate an anti-deckout deck using this card? XD

In large numbers, it's like a self-Nightmare that gives you life when you use the multitudes of black holes that are bound to show up in your hand. :P

Suggestion:
Have something that actually focuses, almost like the Chimera's effect of combining all forces into one. When I imagine a large amount of order being applied, focus comes to mind. If SoF remains a creature, it might be handy for it to, idk...

6 :rainbow Fusion: Sacrifice Shard of Focus. If you have three of the same card in your hand, you may discard all of them to play a single copy of the cards for free. Two are needed if your mark is Gravity.

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