Post by: Scaredgirl on January 17, 2011, 05:35:04 pm
(http://elementscommunity.org/images/Cards/Upgrade.png)
Oracle prediction: Today you will be a (Mass * Acceleration) to be reckoned with. Use it, Luke.
Confirmed inspiration: http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,10924.msg143998#msg143998
Discuss.
Post by: Korugar on January 17, 2011, 05:36:45 pm
Post by: Belthazar666 on January 17, 2011, 05:37:46 pm
Looks like a great card, coupled with momentum.
Post by: Higurashi on January 17, 2011, 05:39:34 pm
[18:26:55] zanzarino: Otherwise it would make "momentum" obsolete
[18:27:58] zanzarino: Overdrive would be +4 / -2 (to be tested), cost=4
Mmhm.. this on flying PU Titans or Massive Dragons..
Man.. it's making me sad how many elements can lobo now..
Post by: EvaRia on January 17, 2011, 05:43:42 pm
:D
In any case, this came way faster than i thought it would :o
Post by: The_Mormegil on January 17, 2011, 05:45:48 pm
- Low cost
- Good damage
- A buff to high hp creatures
- Soft CC
- Insta-lobotomizer
Well, this makes for a GREAT card.
Post by: PlayerOa on January 17, 2011, 05:51:54 pm
I've waited for this card. This is the best buff for :gravity and HP :D
Now, please make a card that buffs :time
Post by: Korugar on January 17, 2011, 05:52:59 pm
Post by: ZephyrPhantom on January 17, 2011, 05:58:30 pm
Second off,
Third off, this card is pretty good! It's use seems to mainly be in decks with cards like Armagio and the aforementioned Dragon to obliterate all puny shields in it's path. One question though : is the HP reduction permanent or just damage?
Post by: karis on January 17, 2011, 06:11:52 pm
Post by: Camoninja on January 17, 2011, 07:08:06 pm
Post by: willng3 on January 17, 2011, 07:18:30 pm
Gemini is going to be so powrful with this.Assuming he gets it of course.
Really looking forward to using this on Flying Titans.
Post by: GG on January 17, 2011, 07:28:28 pm
If overdrive becomes +4/-2, Overdrive + Adrenaline = +8/-4 a turn.
Crazy synergy with adrenaline.
Post by: Korugar on January 17, 2011, 07:54:47 pm
Does anyone feel this could give Gravity a chance to make some powerful rush style decks?Yes, actually, that was one of my main thoughts. I won't know how practical it is until tested, but once the combo is set up it work as fast as any growth-based rush. Of course, it might take a little longer to set up, I don't know yet...
Post by: YoYoBro on January 17, 2011, 08:00:36 pm
Actually, Accelleration has a crazy synergy with 90% of gravity creatures and can be used as lobotomizator and CC too.
What do we need more than this?
Btw, Gratz EvaRia!
Post by: EvaRia on January 17, 2011, 09:09:48 pm
I'm looking forward to seeing this with voodoo doll...
Post by: GG on January 17, 2011, 09:13:38 pm
Thanks everyone, the first thing I did on the forums finally comes to light :DO_O!!! Didn't think of that! With overdrive, +6 per turn? :o
I'm looking forward to seeing this with voodoo doll...
by the way, do y'all like my new profile pic? :D
Post by: The_Mormegil on January 17, 2011, 09:16:45 pm
Post by: Zeru on January 17, 2011, 09:21:42 pm
I'm literally shedding tears. Finally Gravity is receiving the attention it deserves.It does, but as long as the game is damage oriented, Gravity will have a hard time competing with other elements. Take this card of example. Obviously it's useful with most of the gravity creatures, but.. it still works better with Voodoo.
Quote
Crazy synergy with adrenaline.Just in one turn. After that the increase is slow. Also, we do not know if the skill will work 4 times or only in the first and last attack, like other nerfed skills.
Edit: How ironic, that I am the person to get your mind back to Earth ;)
Post by: Korugar on January 17, 2011, 09:31:18 pm
O_O!!! Didn't think of that! With overdrive, +6 per turn? :o+6? Has Zanz been in chat?
by the way, do y'all like my new profile pic? :D
Post by: EvaRia on January 17, 2011, 09:32:18 pm
Not really +6, it's +4 with an added 2 damage each turn.O_O!!! Didn't think of that! With overdrive, +6 per turn? :o+6? Has Zanz been in chat?
by the way, do y'all like my new profile pic? :D
Post by: teffy on January 17, 2011, 09:33:39 pm
Post by: Zeru on January 17, 2011, 09:36:02 pm
I think the Acceleration growth (+2/-1) should be slower than regular growth of Lava Golem (+2/+2), Spirits(+2/+2 or +2/0).Ehm, in one case you pay with quanta, in other you pay with hp. What is broken about it?
Post by: Dm on January 17, 2011, 09:41:25 pm
Post by: tinkady on January 17, 2011, 09:42:18 pm
not sure if that's epic or slow/easily broken
Post by: teffy on January 17, 2011, 09:45:37 pm
I would say: More risk = faster growth. Gravity has creatures with high HP, the HP payment could be only a little disadvantage for high HP creatures and in games with normal length.I think the Acceleration growth (+2/-1) should be slower than regular growth of Lava Golem (+2/+2), Spirits(+2/+2 or +2/0).Ehm, in one case you pay with quanta, in other you pay with hp. What is broken about it?
Post by: Zeru on January 17, 2011, 09:53:14 pm
I would say: More risk = faster growth. Gravity has creatures with high HP, the HP payment could be only a little disadvantage for high HP creatures and in games with normal length.Still it's a two card combo. Don't compare it to a single card. While you play your Over driven Armagio, someone else will have a Blessed Pegasus.
Post by: Higurashi on January 17, 2011, 09:58:48 pm
Armagios or Animated Titans on Overdrive slaughter HB's like nothing. As if TU+Titan wasn't powerful already. x)
Post by: 918273645 on January 17, 2011, 11:49:16 pm
F*** YES!
Post by: TheIdioticIdiot on January 17, 2011, 11:58:56 pm
most will use it with armagios (sry massive dragon, u r still ignored...)
also, the upped one is pretty OP...
Post by: Higurashi on January 18, 2011, 12:10:49 am
Post by: agentflare on January 18, 2011, 12:30:59 am
Post by: Essence on January 18, 2011, 12:34:01 am
Post by: TheIdioticIdiot on January 18, 2011, 12:34:19 am
Post by: GG on January 18, 2011, 12:36:54 am
Has anyone thought about Guardian Angel+ Acceleration? +2 atk and healed right after, or every turn necessaryAcceleration removes heal ability.
More importantly, has anyone thought of the fact that this is finally a good use to put Graviton Guards to? :)They were already in good use in my hands... fractal guards, gravity pull usage, cheap attacker/fodder, etc.
With angels, they are now awesome :D
Post by: TheIdioticIdiot on January 18, 2011, 12:44:16 am
GG fell in love with this card fast...
Post by: LongDono on January 18, 2011, 12:51:53 am
I think i just died and went to heaven. This card might be one of the most flexible cards in elements! Loses skill and gains attack but losess HP.
OMG so many uses for this!
Post by: Sir Valimont on January 18, 2011, 01:01:29 am
Acceleration seems like it would be useful and all that but again it is giving Gravity something that really belonged to Fire until now with the attack-growth ... and it's been given the ability in such a way that now Gravity is actually better at attack-growth than Fire (rather than having a weaker version or something).
meh.
Post by: Marvaddin on January 18, 2011, 01:35:38 am
Zanz is thinking about making it +4/-2? If so, it will be even more powerful.
Flying Titans all the way :D
Post by: Essence on January 18, 2011, 01:43:05 am
Again meh. I like a lot of the recent new cards but these two ... meh.Begging to differ.
Acceleration seems like it would be useful and all that but again it is giving Gravity something that really belonged to Fire until now with the attack-growth ... and it's been given the ability in such a way that now Gravity is actually better at attack-growth than Fire (rather than having a weaker version or something).
meh.
:waterbig is the ruler of attack growth. Remember Steam Machine?
:p
Besides, Fire's growth cards are single cards. This is a two-card combo. Really, what this makes Gravity master of is buff cards -- it's the only element to have two (Momentum and Acceleration).
Post by: Higurashi on January 18, 2011, 01:51:09 am
Zanz is thinking about making it +4/-2? If so, it will be even more powerful.No, Overdrive (upped) already is. It's quite overpowered. You can try it out in trainer, as I've mentioned.
Besides, Fire's growth cards are single cards. This is a two-card combo. Really, what this makes Gravity master of is buff cards -- it's the only element to have two (Momentum and Acceleration).Acceleration can be used as CC or as buff, just like Liquid Shadow, and Nightfall is only a buff. As I see it, Darkness already has 2 buff cards.
Post by: Sir Valimont on January 18, 2011, 01:52:08 am
Remember Steam Machine?Steam Machine is a Water card, but it grows with Fire. As do Fire Spirit and Fireeater. Lava Golem is a Fire card as well. Forest Spirit is the only exception to the needs-Fire rule.
A spell that lets any creature grow is a stronger card than a single creature type that grows. It's like the difference between Anubis and Quintessence.
Incidentally, Otyugh is perhaps not that far off from growing on its own but for obvious reasons is not really the same thing.
Post by: Korugar on January 18, 2011, 01:55:47 am
Post by: TheIdioticIdiot on January 18, 2011, 02:08:05 am
Post by: Boingo on January 18, 2011, 05:08:15 am
Post by: Ekki on January 18, 2011, 05:28:32 am
Just like it. Helping gravity by giving high hp more uses :D
Post by: EvaRia on January 18, 2011, 06:22:20 am
Another card :aether can do nothing with. Awesome.TU much?
Oh and Lobotomize can let you keep creatures alive once you've grown them to a point you like.
Post by: Avenger on January 18, 2011, 07:32:01 am
Mitosis does those two in one step. Who would take :aether as secondary element now :)Another card :aether can do nothing with. Awesome.TU much?
Oh and Lobotomize can let you keep creatures alive once you've grown them to a point you like.
Post by: EvaRia on January 18, 2011, 07:34:21 am
It generates an original copy.
TU keeps the OD status and stats.
Post by: Jappert on January 18, 2011, 08:08:34 am
- Heavy damage otyughs (if they can keep devouring)
- Heavy damage dragons/Armagio's
- Combines well with momentum and chimeara, doesn't combine well with catapult.
- Isn't OP because it builds up slowly
I can't wait to try it out.
Post by: DrunkDestroyer on January 18, 2011, 08:19:55 am
Again meh. I like a lot of the recent new cards but these two ... meh.Well would you look at this guys, I'm agreeing with Sir Valimont! (I admit, it probably would be pretty cool to have you on my side of any argument)
Acceleration seems like it would be useful and all that but again it is giving Gravity something that really belonged to Fire until now with the attack-growth ... and it's been given the ability in such a way that now Gravity is actually better at attack-growth than Fire (rather than having a weaker version or something).
meh.
I dislike the idea that a one-time spell can outgrow a creature skill.
Spells are uncounterable.
Creatures are counterable (CC/Lobo effects).
Also agreeing with the element based argument. Silurian is weaker than Jade for a reason. Acceleration should be weaker than Growth spells for that reason also (Forest spirit is a different matter)
Post by: EvaRia on January 18, 2011, 09:01:06 am
I don't see what makes you think it's so uncounterable.
The reason CC doesn't affect it as much isn't the card, but the creatures, cause they have such high HP and all.
This just gives more of a reason to get rid of them, instead of just leaving them alone, which IMO is a much needed buff for high HP critters.
Post by: Essence on January 18, 2011, 10:18:12 am
Post by: TheonlyrealBeef on January 18, 2011, 10:25:31 am
^^This. Don't forget that Acceleration is an active skill, which means no Momentum, no Devour, no Vampire, no Dive -- it's sole purpose to to make gigantic vanilla creatures cool.Oh really? Momentum can be combined with other skills, including Overdrive.
Post by: Essence on January 18, 2011, 10:52:08 am
Post by: WakSkylicker on January 18, 2011, 10:59:57 am
Post by: TheIdioticIdiot on January 18, 2011, 11:09:28 am
if so, aether/gravity
Post by: Essence on January 18, 2011, 11:15:41 am
It's really too bad, too, because my LS/Overdrive/Voodoo deck doesn't work at all because of it. 8)
Post by: 18237 on January 18, 2011, 01:10:36 pm
Post by: TDenverFan on January 18, 2011, 01:19:49 pm
6 Overdrive
4 Voodoo Dolls
6 PU
10 Aether Pillars
5 Dark Pillars
:gravity Mark
Seems (In theory) like a pretty good deck, to me at least
Post by: Xrbeta on January 18, 2011, 01:33:52 pm
Post by: karis on January 18, 2011, 06:01:43 pm
Post by: Sir Valimont on January 18, 2011, 06:11:27 pm
Consider:
Life: Adrenaline (Green Nymph)
Gravity: Momentum (Charger)
Earth: Basilisk Blood (Auburn Nymph)
Darkness: Liquid Shadow (Vampire, Dagger, Black Nymph)
Light: Luciferin (Ray of Light, Hope, White Nymph)
What if a new card were invented that enabled a creature to put another creature in a Time Bubble? Clearly that card should be Time-based ... not Life-based for example.
Fire is the element of gradual growth. Cards like Lava Golem, Fire Spirit, Fireeater, Rage Potion, Red Nymph all attest to this fact. Now a growth enchantment is invented for a non-Fire element ... it just seems wrong to me. I don't think the card is unbalanced -- I just think that thematically Gravity is the wrong element. Yes, independently it makes sense for this TYPE of ability to exist for Gravity since "Acceleration" is a Gravity-like concept. And it's certainly USEFUL given the makeup of Gravity creatures (heavy and slow). Nonetheless in the current context of the game this card takes away some of the "culture" of Fire and re-assigns it ... and I'm not a fan of that.
Post by: Tea is good on January 18, 2011, 06:23:02 pm
Post by: Korugar on January 18, 2011, 06:31:16 pm
First, there's rage potion and fire nymph. Since all nymph abilities are those of their element's alchemy card, I don't really think this even counts as two cards, but that's beside the point. This is not gradual, and it's not continual. It's one time, as well as being a bigger boost that any other card mentioned, including overdrive.
There's also the two ablaze creatures, fire spirit and fire eater. Sure, every creature with this ability is going to be linked to fire(the name is called ablaze, after all), but of only two creatures in the game only one of them is fire. The other is gravity, showing that even the "purer" ability is not solely based in it's own element.
Also on the list is steam machine(actually, you didn't name it this time, but I'm pretty sure you did earlier). Well, if you think about the concept, you'll realize fire isn't even an aspect of the idea. You don't usually use fire directly to create steam. You could, of course, but all you really need is heat. Heat is energy, and fire is only one of multiple elements that are energy.
Last, but not least come the growth creatures, lava golem and forest spirit. Of the four elements used here, only one of them is fire, and again, if you want to go into the concept it's slightly inaccurate. Lava is superheated melted rock. You might find fire near lava, but the fire is usually a by product of the lava, not vice versa.
All in all? I think gravity needs this, gravity can use it best, and gravity has as much claim to it as any other.
Post by: Sir Valimont on January 18, 2011, 06:40:28 pm
Post by: Tea is good on January 18, 2011, 06:43:08 pm
Post by: crystalmakwer on January 18, 2011, 07:41:44 pm
Post by: Marvaddin on January 18, 2011, 11:53:49 pm
Lets suppose I play Overdrive (+4/-2) on, hmmmm, Phase Recluse. What happens? It attacks as 7/2, and after the attack it becomes 11/0, or it becomes 11/0 and attacks? Supposing if gets +4/-2 after the attack, it dies instantly, or after attacking as 11/0?
Thanks to anyone that answer, I went to the trainer but didnt find the card.
Post by: Brad1715 on January 19, 2011, 12:02:43 am
There are abilities that are inherent to each element; and that identify those elements. In each case there is a "potion" card within that element which works as a creature enchantment to endow that ability. This is the main difference between an element's inherent ability and a creature which shares some qualities of another element. Yes, Anubis has the ability to make other creature immortal, but immortality is an Aether skill, not a Time skill; logically Aether is the controlling element with the card Quintessence that can render anything immortal regardless of its element.To me, fire is all about destroying anything in its path with no regard for safety, even its shield is meant for offense. Growth abilities do not inherently belong to and define fire, life and gravity already had them in the first place.
Consider:
Life: Adrenaline (Green Nymph)
Gravity: Momentum (Charger)
Earth: Basilisk Blood (Auburn Nymph)
Darkness: Liquid Shadow (Vampire, Dagger, Black Nymph)
Light: Luciferin (Ray of Light, Hope, White Nymph)
What if a new card were invented that enabled a creature to put another creature in a Time Bubble? Clearly that card should be Time-based ... not Life-based for example.
Fire is the element of gradual growth. Cards like Lava Golem, Fire Spirit, Fireeater, Rage Potion, Red Nymph all attest to this fact. Now a growth enchantment is invented for a non-Fire element ... it just seems wrong to me. I don't think the card is unbalanced -- I just think that thematically Gravity is the wrong element. Yes, independently it makes sense for this TYPE of ability to exist for Gravity since "Acceleration" is a Gravity-like concept. And it's certainly USEFUL given the makeup of Gravity creatures (heavy and slow). Nonetheless in the current context of the game this card takes away some of the "culture" of Fire and re-assigns it ... and I'm not a fan of that.
What about death/water both having poison? And about half of all elements have some form or other of healing. Even your example, basilik blood puts the creature in a time bubble, yet it is not based on time. Its these things about how elements work together in conjunction that makes this game so interesting.
@Marvaddin
I'm guessing that it would attack as 11/0 then die, like sparks do. But that's assuming that the +4|-2 gets applied at the end of your turn as you attack, haven't tested it yet.
Post by: Korugar on January 19, 2011, 12:04:21 am
Post by: kintar on January 19, 2011, 12:23:08 am
Just wondering...It becomes 11/0, hits for 11, then dies.
Lets suppose I play Overdrive (+4/-2) on, hmmmm, Phase Recluse. What happens? It attacks as 7/2, and after the attack it becomes 11/0, or it becomes 11/0 and attacks? Supposing if gets +4/-2 after the attack, it dies instantly, or after attacking as 11/0?
Thanks to anyone that answer, I went to the trainer but didnt find the card.
Post by: TheIdioticIdiot on January 19, 2011, 01:06:53 am
check bazaar, cards not in game are found there usually
if u don't find it there, clear ur cache
Post by: rainingblood on January 19, 2011, 03:00:38 am
Post by: EvaRia on January 19, 2011, 03:03:18 am
I've been testing this card out in the trainer. Not bad with voodoo dolls, but it could still use a buff. I'd suggest changing the element to fire and rename the card to enrage (unupped) and 'berserk' or 'berserker' (upgraded). The artwork could also be redone. As it stands, the card stats seem to fit more with reckless strength than blinding speed. And besides, what does gravity have to with quickness, wouldn't that be an air trait?
Quote from: In Game Description of Gravity
Gravity elementals deal with mass and size; their ability to accelerate objects makes them formidable enemies.
Post by: rainingblood on January 19, 2011, 03:25:33 am
Quote from: In Game Description of Gravity
Gravity elementals deal with mass and size; their ability to accelerate objects makes them formidable enemies.Perhaps my physics isn't up to scratch, but how does mass or size "accelerate objects"? The reverse of gravity is simply weightlessness is it not? Where is this increase in speed coming from? If you look at something like 'momentum' or 'unstoppable' you can see that this card was designed to break through shields through the sheer weight of the creature, not its speed. Nearly all gravity creatures have heavy defense, with the exception of Elite Charger (though it has momentum to compensate). The only creature that can increase its attack power is the Graviton "Firemaster" (using fire obviously). Look at the concept art for these creatures: "Massive" Dragon, clear enough; Elite Armagio is built like a TANK; Graviton Guard is wearing HEAVY armor; Titan, 'nuff said. Getting heavier does not make you faster. But let's suppose gravity is making creatures lighter instead, should that increase speed or should it grant creatures gravity-defying abilities like flight? It seems to me that it's the latter. Overdrive doesn't fit with any other gravity concept that I'm aware of. Reviewing the comments, I think Sir Valimont had it right. This is an unprecedented change to the game mechanics.
Post by: EvaRia on January 19, 2011, 03:32:39 am
I'm sorry if I offend anyone, but I honestly don't see the fuss in absolutely making the themes in elements always absolutely the same.
Change happens, why not let it?
Acceleration was designed as a card with internal synergy in mind, while using a concept that although is new to Gravity, fits the theme of the element perfectly. The spell accelerates a creature to high speeds, making it do more damage, albeit making it more vulnerable as well.
Post by: OldTrees on January 19, 2011, 03:44:06 am
Fire converts chemical potential energy (quanta) into kinetic energy.
Post by: rainingblood on January 19, 2011, 04:03:34 am
Change happens, why not let it?I'm happy to see changes in the game, but I hesitate to call this a "new" change. What's unique to fire is that it has the most aggressive attack, but the weakest defense out of all the elements. Likewise with gravity, it has the highest defense, but the most moderate attack power in the game. That's the distinction as I see it. It's an aesthetic decision to borrow themes from other elements. Gaining life makes sense for light and life cards; they complement each other. Fire and gravity are close, but not that close; not as close as earth say. The creatures and cards specific to each element should have defining features otherwise there wouldn't be much sense picking one element over any other. The game becomes diluted this way. While it isn't a significant point right now, with this particular card, it will have an effect overall and in the long-term. I'd much rather see more element specific changes like quintessence, bonewall/graveyard/soul catcher, antimater, mutation, miracle, etc. etc. All of these provide something unique to each element. This still leaves plenty of room for other abilities that could be shared between two or more elements, like life gain or spell damage. However, a card like overdrive just doesn't seem like it should be one of these. In a way, it sorta kills rage potion, which was supposed to be fire's unique alchemy card. Now it's made redundant. That's about all I have to say on this topic. Hope this card makes it into the game soon, in whatever form.
Post by: jumpoffduck on January 19, 2011, 04:05:31 am
a=G*M/r^2.Quote from: In Game Description of GravityGravity elementals deal with mass and size; their ability to accelerate objects makes them formidable enemies.Perhaps my physics isn't up to scratch, but how does mass or size "accelerate objects"?
Though even a massive dragon does not have enough mass to accelerate something appreciably but... suspension of disbelief!
Post by: Ekki on January 19, 2011, 05:23:08 am
I'm happy to see changes in the game, but I hesitate to call this a "new" change. What's unique to fire is that it has the most aggressive attack, but the weakest defense out of all the elements. Likewise with gravity, it has the highest defense, but the most moderate attack power in the game. That's the distinction as I see it. It's an aesthetic decision to borrow themes from other elements . Gaining life makes sense for light and life cards; they complement each other. Fire and gravity are close, but not that close; not as close as earth say. The creatures and cards specific to each element should have defining features otherwise there wouldn't be much sense picking one element over any other. The game becomes diluted this way. While it isn't a significant point right now, with this particular card, it will have an effect overall and in the long-term. I'd much rather see more element specific changes like quintessence, bonewall/graveyard/soul catcher, antimater, mutation, miracle, etc. etc. All of these provide something unique to each element. This still leaves plenty of room for other abilities that could be shared between two or more elements, like life gain or spell damage. However, a card like overdrive just doesn't seem like it should be one of these. In a way, it sorta kills rage potion, which was supposed to be fire's unique alchemy card. Now it's made redundant. That's about all I have to say on this topic. Hope this card makes it into the game soon, in whatever form.I disagree.
Logically, if you accellerate a creature, and if it hits you, you'll get more damage, but that creature will be more vulnerable.
Thematically, it's still a different strategy. You're swapping hp for attack power CONSTANTLY, but slowly (Overdrive is too fast IMO), so it's like making use of Gravity's high hp, with a Gravity spell...
And fire is more about destruction, not growth, as I see it. Lava golem grows with Earth, and Forest spirit, with water, not to mention the fact that a steam machine doesn't have to use fire, it only needs heat (fire is only one form of energy)... Rage pot is that, RAGE, destruction, lose of control, not growth. Earth, Life, Gravity grow (Earth and Gravity because of mass, that in this case is used to attack, and life because life tends to grow), but fire's main attribute is to destroy... So having 3 out of 5 growths in the game seems too much to me. I would actually prefer having at least one life-based growth.
And rage pot is still effective. +2|-1 is slower than +5|-5 (I disagree with Overdrive, as I said), and you can't stack Accelerations. But Rage pot will be less popular between Gravity decks because of the fact that a mono is more stable than a duo.
Post by: jumpoffduck on January 19, 2011, 05:41:23 am
And rage pot is still effective. +2|-1 is slower than +5|-5 (I disagree with Overdrive, as I said), and you can't stack Accelerations. But Rage pot will be less popular between Gravity decks because of the fact that a mono is more stable than a duo.Also, rage pot is more effective if you're using it as CC (unless you're just trying to lobo)
Post by: TheIdioticIdiot on January 19, 2011, 07:08:02 am
in mere two turns, OD provides more attack and less hp loss...
Post by: Ekki on January 19, 2011, 07:16:59 am
upped version of the card beats upped version of rage tho...Upped seems OP, IMO. Dunno how to fix it, since making it give +2|-1 and cost 1 :gravity sounds odd...
in mere two turns, OD provides more attack and less hp loss...
Post by: funplay on January 19, 2011, 07:29:43 am
upped version of the card beats upped version of rage tho...dont think that this is a problem:
in mere two turns, OD provides more attack and less hp loss...
1. its a different element. by this, new options arise.
2. rage pot is better if you want to use it as CC.
3. the real difference in damage only applies at third turn. while this is a benefit in longer games (stalls, vs. FGs), you want to have the damgae increase as fast as possible in rush decks.
Both cards have different decks where they are most useful.
I think its a great addition to gravity, as it opens the way to new decks and new combos, while not creating new uber combos.
Dont see any uses that i would really call OP...nice, useful and strong. yes. but thats to expected from new cards :)
Post by: TheIdioticIdiot on January 19, 2011, 07:37:56 am
it's OP... as in OP...
Post by: EvaRia on January 19, 2011, 07:41:41 am
I admit it's very, very, good, but not quite to the point where it's broken.
I'd like to hear why you think it's so OP when you claim it is...
Post by: TheIdioticIdiot on January 19, 2011, 08:17:38 am
It's pretty fast, but it's not fast enough to be OP...if this card makes it into the game in its current form
I admit it's very, very, good, but not quite to the point where it's broken.
I'd like to hear why you think it's so OP when you claim it is...
u will see why in war 4...
Post by: jumpoffduck on January 19, 2011, 08:27:01 am
To be honest, that's not very helpful :xIt's pretty fast, but it's not fast enough to be OP...if this card makes it into the game in its current form
I admit it's very, very, good, but not quite to the point where it's broken.
I'd like to hear why you think it's so OP when you claim it is...
u will see why in war 4...
The point of debating about OPness is so that it can be balanced before that happens, no? State your reasons and then zanz can fix it if it really is OP.
Post by: twinsbuster on January 19, 2011, 08:51:26 am
Post by: TheIdioticIdiot on January 19, 2011, 08:59:35 am
let's look at gravity/earth or gravity/aether or gravity/water
all of them can stall very well with BB/gravity shield. dim shield, freeze and ice shield
now, with this card, with just a few turns of stall, u end up with something like 21/15 armagios... with just a couple more, u won..
in duos with water and aether, u can lobo the effect when ur armagios are about to die too (assuming ur opponent survive long enough), so they stay alive, with uber attack...
u can also go aggresive in combination of fire, explosions help a lot against stalls and lobos, all the CC would help against mind flayer too, not to mention rage pots to speed up the growth...
keep in mind that gravity also has momentum, and that would also be very nice
Post by: Avenger on January 19, 2011, 03:30:37 pm
as I remember the skill of voodoo doll can't be lobotomized, that's why liquid shadow work on it.As i know, of the passive skills, only momentum can be lobotomized.
I guess, it is more like a question of balancing, whether lobo would work on this or not.
Post by: Avenger on January 19, 2011, 03:37:10 pm
Has anyone thought about Guardian Angel+ Acceleration? +2 atk and healed right after, or every turn necessaryI thought this will cause unhealable damage (as in decrease max hp of the creature instead of damaging it).
There is a nice card idea (stop) laying around, that would be the perfect counter against this.
Post by: Ekki on January 19, 2011, 04:09:57 pm
As i know, of the passive skills, only momentum can be lobotomized.But acceleration is active, just than an automatic active, like vampire or bioluminiscence.
I guess, it is more like a question of balancing, whether lobo would work on this or not.
Dont see any uses that i would really call OP...nice, useful and strong. yes. but thats to expected from new cards :)Errr, growing 4 atk per turn without any major drawback (because -2 hp in GRAVITY is less important than in other elements) seems pretty much the reason... Is the fastest growth along with steam machine, wich also needs 2 :fire to work, and if freezed, it loses atk (with Overdrive, frozen creatures keep growing).
Post by: coinich on January 19, 2011, 06:35:44 pm
well, thing is about ODHave you actually tried using it? Have you actually played against it? Aether doesn't lend to strong combinations with this as no Aether creatures can survive. You can attempt to Quint and Momentum a creature, but it won't survive long enough anyways; only an Armagio or a Titan truly has the HP to make a long term effect. Also Reverse Time eats this for breakfast. Try running an Overdrive deck. Its strong, but any deck using it is no stronger or faster than a speedbow.
let's look at gravity/earth or gravity/aether or gravity/water
all of them can stall very well with BB/gravity shield. dim shield, freeze and ice shield
now, with this card, with just a few turns of stall, u end up with something like 21/15 armagios... with just a couple more, u won..
in duos with water and aether, u can lobo the effect when ur armagios are about to die too (assuming ur opponent survive long enough), so they stay alive, with uber attack...
u can also go aggresive in combination of fire, explosions help a lot against stalls and lobos, all the CC would help against mind flayer too, not to mention rage pots to speed up the growth...
keep in mind that gravity also has momentum, and that would also be very nice
Post by: funplay on January 19, 2011, 07:37:57 pm
Seconded. Yes, I tried it.well, thing is about ODHave you actually tried using it? Have you actually played against it? Aether doesn't lend to strong combinations with this as no Aether creatures can survive. You can attempt to Quint and Momentum a creature, but it won't survive long enough anyways; only an Armagio or a Titan truly has the HP to make a long term effect. Also Reverse Time eats this for breakfast. Try running an Overdrive deck. Its strong, but any deck using it is no stronger or faster than a speedbow.
let's look at gravity/earth or gravity/aether or gravity/water
all of them can stall very well with BB/gravity shield. dim shield, freeze and ice shield
now, with this card, with just a few turns of stall, u end up with something like 21/15 armagios... with just a couple more, u won..
in duos with water and aether, u can lobo the effect when ur armagios are about to die too (assuming ur opponent survive long enough), so they stay alive, with uber attack...
u can also go aggresive in combination of fire, explosions help a lot against stalls and lobos, all the CC would help against mind flayer too, not to mention rage pots to speed up the growth...
keep in mind that gravity also has momentum, and that would also be very nice
Earth/Gravity becomes a really nice combination...overdriving armagios is fun...but SLOW...adrenalined OD armagios maybe worth a try :)
OD voodoo dolls are also fun, maybe a bit stronger then raged dolls...but also not OP. Not fast enough to make a killer deck (well, at least i could have thought of one ;) ), but strong...
But maybe we have different opinion concerning OP: For me an OP card fits these points:
1) Too good to be not included in many decks -> not the case
2) allows a single combo thats gamebreaking good -> not the case
3) offers huge advantages for its cost -> not the case
who was using armagios or massive dragons before overdrive -> only few decks. with OD gravity creatures gain some additional edge and we will see some new, strong decks...and thats simply nice and good, but not OP.
But as I only tested OD in some deck ideas, you will convince me, if you can supply a deck using OD:
1) That beats AI3 much faster as now OR
2) Thats a real killer deck for PvP AND hard to counter OR
3) That beats FGs MUCH better then any of the current decks
Post by: tyranim on January 19, 2011, 10:19:00 pm
i am genuinly afraid of the power gravity will be getting out of the new cards...
Post by: Ryli on January 19, 2011, 11:14:19 pm
Post by: TheIdioticIdiot on January 20, 2011, 12:35:49 am
this card is stall based, not rush based, obviously it's not going to be speedbows in speed, but a good stall can win against speedbows
out of all the damage cards in stalls, this is one of the best...
also, by saying that a certain card counters this doesn't actually mean this card isn't strong... look at fractal and nightmare... nightmare is nightmare (pun intended) to fractal decks, but fractal decks are still very strong... same goes with OD and rewind...
Post by: EvaRia on January 20, 2011, 03:19:39 am
I agree with you that the card is strong, but it's not so strong that it's broken. If you could come up with a situation where it would be better than powerful cards like Fractal, Cremation, etc, then I would see your point, but it's just not better than existing top-tier cards.
Post by: Ekki on January 20, 2011, 03:25:46 am
Fractal is not a good card to compare, because fractal is now balanced. If it weren't balanced, it would have been nerfed more.Even Zanz can make mistakes when nerfing, so we don't know FOR SURE if Fractal is actually balanced... And both Cremation and Fractal are quite broken/OP (a little), since they're part of like every strong deck out there (Nova too), and they all have counters (Black Hole/Nightmare+Neurotoxine/Black Hole again), but that doesn't make them balanced...
Regarding Overdrive *upped*, it's too fast, and you'll see it better with a stall deck, where it'll kick ass (dunno for sure, but it's my opinion).
Post by: TombSimon on January 20, 2011, 11:38:04 am
If I should name something, that could make this card a little less gamebreaking, would Accelerate be with +2/-2, and Overdrive +2/-1, for only one :gravity cost.. So Acceleration would often only be seen in Gravity-decks (and with Voodoo Doll), while Overdrive combines with everything effectively ;)
Post by: Sir Valimont on January 20, 2011, 04:11:52 pm
Consider a card that gives +0 attack on the first turn you use it, then +1 attack the next turn, then +2 attack the next turn, and so on. All of these bonuses being temporary, not accumulated. That is the type of mechanic that would make sense for an "accelerating" creature under Gravity and not rob Fire of the specialness of growth.
Post by: TheIdioticIdiot on January 20, 2011, 08:08:48 pm
The point I was trying to make earlier is that I would much prefer if this card used a different mechanic from the one already used by different elements, because it takes away from those elements' uniqueness.
Consider a card that gives +0 attack on the first turn you use it, then +1 attack the next turn, then +2 attack the next turn, and so on. All of these bonuses being temporary, not accumulated. That is the type of mechanic that would make sense for an "accelerating" creature under Gravity and not rob Fire of the specialness of growth.
if the formula for the growth is made quadratic, this card might be even better in stalls...
it eventually gets to something like +15 a turn...
having it capping at about 8 is probably the best idea...
Post by: Tea is good on January 21, 2011, 01:40:36 am
Post by: TheIdioticIdiot on January 21, 2011, 01:41:47 am
I feel like this is too slow to be a rush, because all the cards die after a couple turns, cost too much, or start too low. Like Graviton firemaster isn't good for rush because it has 0 starting attack. Neither is armagio/ acceleration. don't even talk about duo because it is slower.check my posts here...
this card is very good in stalls...
Post by: Korugar on January 21, 2011, 01:48:44 am
Post by: Essence on January 21, 2011, 02:56:20 pm
I feel like this is too slow to be a rush, because all the cards die after a couple turns, cost too much, or start too low. Like Graviton firemaster isn't good for rush because it has 0 starting attack. Neither is armagio/ acceleration. don't even talk about duo because it is slower.If you're talking about Acceleration, Graviton Guard is awesome with it. If you're talking about Overdrive, then you're talking about upped decks, at which point (with Towers) Armagio is fast enough to be quite good as well.
Post by: willng3 on January 21, 2011, 09:06:24 pm
Post by: tyranim on January 21, 2011, 09:43:10 pm
Post by: jumpoffduck on January 21, 2011, 10:27:19 pm
Consider a card that gives +0 attack on the first turn you use it, then +1 attack the next turn, then +2 attack the next turn, and so on. All of these bonuses being temporary, not accumulated. That is the type of mechanic that would make sense for an "accelerating" creature under Gravity and not rob Fire of the specialness of growth.Speaking from a flavor point of view, you can view a creature's attack as a change in the opponent's life over time. A change in this attack = change in change = acceleration
Post by: Essence on January 22, 2011, 06:27:20 pm
Post by: jamiejoneslovesu on January 23, 2011, 01:14:00 am
Post by: jumpoffduck on January 23, 2011, 04:06:56 am
idk if said before but a trio with steam machine and overdrive would be epic after the 4th turn it would be a 32/somethingIt'd only be 16/7, since overdrive gives +8/-4 in 4 turns, and you can't use the ability anymore
Post by: Cancerplus on January 23, 2011, 05:18:36 am
All seem fun but the graviton mercs with armors was the fastest since I can usually overdrive them the 2nd turn where as the other card combos required more expensive creatures which lead to taking whole turn longer.
Voodoo/gargoyle was a tad slower but it is very well rounded since you can throw gravity pulls on the dolls if you already have hardened gargoyles out for overdrive(not to mention you can get EMS much easier.)
I really like this card. :)
Post by: zanzarino on January 23, 2011, 07:53:00 pm
Discuss.
Post by: Higurashi on January 23, 2011, 07:56:22 pm
Post by: doublecross on January 23, 2011, 08:07:39 pm
plop down a shield, then use this to kill off enemies.
Works even better with :time and sundials
Post by: Essence on January 23, 2011, 08:11:13 pm
Post by: doublecross on January 23, 2011, 08:13:02 pm
Post by: Korugar on January 23, 2011, 10:03:56 pm
Post by: Essence on January 23, 2011, 10:15:00 pm
Post by: Korugar on January 23, 2011, 10:17:01 pm
Post by: funplay on January 23, 2011, 10:17:51 pm
But as there were many people saying "OP!!"...i might be wrong...
Post by: doublecross on January 23, 2011, 10:22:05 pm
with the exception of people who have really stunning decks already, everyone always pictures new cards in their deck, and tend to want them to be very powerful.
Not every card has to be the new best card. In fact, I would be so bold as to say that a new card could even not be in the top 50% most powerful cards, and still be a good addition to the game.
Unless a card is so weak as to never be useful, I really don't think we should complain about it being UP. OP on the other hand, is something perfectly reasonable to worry about, because, unlike adding a UP card, adding an OP card temporarily breaks or destabilizes the game.
My point is this: Be thankful for new cards, and please, please, don't whine if it is not the super card your deck has been missing.
Post by: Essence on January 23, 2011, 10:27:09 pm
But it does bug me that this card wasn't demonstrably better than anything currently in-game, and it's getting nerfed because some people are making claims that they are literally incapable of substantiating. The OLD Overdrive wasn't necessarily in the top 50% of all cards -- so why make it any worse?
Post by: doublecross on January 23, 2011, 10:30:49 pm
And I do apologize for my rant.
I did get slightly annoyed at all of the "Armagio+Overdrive=Win"
from both people who obviously are planning on having a super deck now, and from people who this that this needs to be nerfed because of it.
So, I am sorry for generalizing.
However,
(never a good word to use after an apology, I know), I do think that we as a community should be more open to cards that are not all in the top 50%, as we seem extremely more inclined to support or suggest.
And again, sorry.
Post by: Cancerplus on January 23, 2011, 10:47:15 pm
I am not sure how I feel about this recent change.
Post by: TheIdioticIdiot on January 23, 2011, 11:58:20 pm
I don't think anyone is doing that, doublecross. In fact, I don't plan on using Acceleration/Overdrive either way; it's just not my thing.a lot of other combinations don't have as good of stalling as these combinations do..
But it does bug me that this card wasn't demonstrably better than anything currently in-game, and it's getting nerfed because some people are making claims that they are literally incapable of substantiating. The OLD Overdrive wasn't necessarily in the top 50% of all cards -- so why make it any worse?
earth and gravity are very good at that...
tho, i don't like the change...
should be +4/-3
Post by: Marvaddin on January 24, 2011, 01:28:41 pm
New version: Cost adjusted to 3/3upped. Upped version gains +3/-2 per turn instead of +4It was a card Gravity was needing a lot, even because its a slow element. Now you just killed the card. Another weak one just for the collection. 3 quanta for +2/-1? Honestly, no use.
Discuss.
Yup. In chat, everyone was all like "this is OP with Steel Golem" and "This is OP with Armagio" -- but no one ever addressed the fact that there are several other consistent two-card combos that deal lethal damage to the opponent noticeably faster than Overdrive + any given high-HP creature. I simply haven't seen anyone produce any real numbers that demonstrate that this change was necessary in any way.I wouldnt say it better myself. Whats wrong if Gravity can have a good combo? Steam Engine alone can get +4/0 per turn. Ok, 2 quanta types, but just 1 card.
Post by: Higurashi on January 24, 2011, 01:49:37 pm
Nonetheless, +3 per turn is still powerful, and does it really matter if it's +3 or +4? I don't think it does, because it doesn't change its application or the kind of deck you would build around it. It only makes rushing with resistant creatures less viable, which I think is fine since if we saw those kinds of decks spread, CC in general would be much less useful.
Post by: funerallaughter on January 24, 2011, 01:55:27 pm
Post by: tyranim on January 24, 2011, 02:03:10 pm
but i am less scared of this card now... gravity now has a way to become a beatstick element, AND it no longer has the strongest growth card.
Post by: Jappert on January 24, 2011, 02:21:38 pm
As people already stated, this card was strongest (read fastest) when used with relatively smaller creatures (so no Titans, Armagio's or Voodoo's). After the nerf, the upgraded version just kills them to fast, giving less turns to do damage and a worse attack/-hp ratio then the unupped version.
When this card was "released" I was happy, but after this nerf I'm like meh..... At least keep the attack/-hp ratio 2/1.
Post by: Essence on January 24, 2011, 05:54:54 pm
Post by: coinich on January 24, 2011, 05:55:58 pm
So what does everyone think about making the upped version +3/-1 instead of +3/-2? If it's the speed y'all were worried about, that reduces the speed but still keeps the upgraded version distinctly better than the unupgraded version under all circumstances.I'll take +3|-1 instead of +3|-2, but I actually preferred the old version.
Post by: timtwins on January 24, 2011, 06:00:21 pm
Post by: Jappert on January 24, 2011, 06:50:30 pm
So what does everyone think about making the upped version +3/-1 instead of +3/-2? If it's the speed y'all were worried about, that reduces the speed but still keeps the upgraded version distinctly better than the unupgraded version under all circumstances.Sounds great to me. I think upgraded cards should always clearly outrank non-upgraded cards. (that's what I don't like about nova, wich is still a great card)
Post by: Korugar on January 24, 2011, 07:37:45 pm
Post by: Higurashi on January 24, 2011, 07:41:08 pm
Post by: TheIdioticIdiot on January 24, 2011, 09:04:42 pm
(a little worried about stalls, but it's nice)
Post by: Jappert on January 25, 2011, 08:34:15 am
It's not like with the introduction of acceleration, stall decks will rock our world. You've made your point, no need to repeat it every page. (so let's please drop it ;))
Post by: coinich on January 25, 2011, 12:47:53 pm
essence's idea is good
(a little worried about stalls, but it's nice)
You should stop overestimating stalls + acceleration idiot. (no offense, it's just that that's your name...).Seriously, if a stall takes that long, you've probably lost control of (and likely lost) the game long ago. Acceleration/Overdrive won't change that at all.
It's not like with the introduction of acceleration, stall decks will rock our world. You've made your point, no need to repeat it every page. (so let's please drop it ;))
Post by: estica on January 25, 2011, 08:36:16 pm
you could've at least let them in the game for a while to really test them out and if they were really OP nerf them then...
I'm kinda new to the game and i'm already a bit bored with always the same decks...
no cool new cards allowed... :(
Post by: omegareaper7 on January 25, 2011, 08:54:35 pm
I'm so disappointed, i loved the +4/-2 version of overdrive, worked great on voodoo dolls... oh well looks like no cool cards will be adding to game, everyone is so worried they might actually bring new interesting decks...now its even better, you get far more attack overtime. and it can still work with voodoos.
you could've at least let them in the game for a while to really test them out and if they were really OP nerf them then...
I'm kinda new to the game and i'm already a bit bored with always the same decks...
no cool new cards allowed... :(
Post by: TheIdioticIdiot on January 25, 2011, 09:20:48 pm
actually, the rule is, no OP cards allowed... besides, if you want fun, why not create your own decks... in my spare time, I tend to think up new strategies, new decks, and so on, even without a computer, and it always keeps me entertained for about half an hour...
also, with the amount of decks made by the community, if you got the cards, go try them, it's fun too...
join some PvP events, they can be fun, as well as rewarding...
I suppose that you are too new to possess much electrum... no?
well, go look in the newbies guides... there you can find how to get rich...
[/off topic]
Post by: Marvaddin on January 25, 2011, 11:07:35 pm
"no cool new cards allowed..."Why do you think this card was so powerful before the nerf? I believe coinich has a point. What are you doing while your opponent stall the game and use this to grow his creatures? Nothing? Ahhh, you are using a pure rush deck, like frogs, cockatrices... so you would possibly lose to any stall deck.
actually, the rule is, no OP cards allowed... besides, if you want fun, why not create your own decks... in my spare time, I tend to think up new strategies, new decks, and so on, even without a computer, and it always keeps me entertained for about half an hour...
also, with the amount of decks made by the community, if you got the cards, go try them, it's fun too...
join some PvP events, they can be fun, as well as rewarding...
I suppose that you are too new to possess much electrum... no?
well, go look in the newbies guides... there you can find how to get rich...
[/off topic]
Talking about stall, Steam Machine is from Water, the element with the most powerful stall arsenal. It gains +4 attack / turn, without lose HP, so even with a gigantic attack, you will still have problems to kill it, because it has 15, oh, yeah, 15 HP. Fire quanta, yeah. 2 types of quanta, but in just 1 card. Just put a fire quanta card (Tower, Cremation...) instead of the Overdrive card, or even better, put a SoR instead. Doesnt it worries you? Oh, I bet Steam Machine is crushing the PVP metagame.
Is Overdrive powerful with Armaggio? Well, most cards are supposed to be powerful in some situations, and the ones that arent... are just not played, right? Now, OP? Are you sure its OP compared to Lava Destroyer and Cremation, for example?
In fact, Im not happy with the nerf. This is because I love Gravity, and when the element is going to get a good card (that it deserves and NEED, because its a slow element, and it has just catapult as a card that fits the high HP theme, and its not a powerful card) there is someone to just tell its OP, without any proof, and now Gravity is going to get a weak to medium, that does nothing alone and even requiring a high HP creature to be played on, is worse than a single Water card.
Suggestion 1: just let it be +4/-2, for 2 quanta like the original version and IF there is an evidence this is soooooo OP (I doubt it), we could discuss again a nerf.
Suggestion 2: at last lets make a poll about the nerf, like done about Mitosis.
I, myself, prefer suggestion 1.
Post by: Essence on January 25, 2011, 11:11:23 pm
Quote
Talking about stall, Steam Machine is from Water, the element with the most powerful stall arsenal. It gains +4 attack / turn, without lose HP, so even with a gigantic attack, you will still have problems to kill it, because it has 15, oh, yeah, 15 HP. Fire quanta, yeah. 2 types of quanta, but in just 1 card. Just put a fire quanta card (Tower, Cremation...) instead of the Overdrive card, or even better, put a SoR instead. Doesnt it worries you? Oh, I bet Steam Machine is crushing the PVP metagame.
Best argument of the thread. +Karma.
Post by: EvaRia on January 26, 2011, 12:18:57 am
The main problem is that a lot of elements players to me seem kind of resistant to an element gaining something that they feel is unique to a certain element.
Sure the old OD was the strongest attack growth in the game aside from steam engine, but that's not necessarily a bad thing.
There was nothing game-breaking or OP about it, because there are only a few select synergies that worked well with it, and even those were not perfect.
It's not exactly a stall card either, because it's time is limited unlike growth, as eventually the creature will die.
You could put healing such as angels in the deck, but creature healing is underused at the moment and the buff to it would honestly be really well deserved.
I think the main problem people had with it was that +4 attack is a threat, and -2 meant you needed to combine it with a creature with quite a bit of HP to keep it from dying.
This means that it makes high HP creatures a THREAT instead of something to be ignored.
Before OD, when you see a high HP creature, you just ignored it to not waste CC. But with OD, It's more difficult to afford to ignore the creature. And with HIGH HP, it's difficult to control. But that's a good thing right? It actually gives PURPOSE to high HP. It makes High HP difficult to kill, which was the original intention I would guess, rather than just easy to ignore.
So what's so bad about +4/-2?
Just my 2 cents.
Post by: TheIdioticIdiot on January 26, 2011, 02:21:41 am
the fact that it would be in almost every gravity deck is what concerns me...
almost all fire decks are crowded by cremation...
water decks with either octopi, or permafrost...
rainbows with SN...
I rly don't like elements to turn monotone... last week's tourney (which I won, yay) was filled with SN bows... and a lot of matches came down to luck... I rly don't like that style of gaming... I go into PvP2, all i find is SNbow, cremation deck, PSNbow... just a lot of rushes... it's gets boring...
Post by: Essence on January 26, 2011, 02:27:17 am
I'm confused.
Post by: TheIdioticIdiot on January 26, 2011, 02:28:31 am
And so you're complaining about a card that gives stalls more power?meh.... nobody gets what I am saying...
I'm confused.
you know what.. I give up... +5/-1...
that's the solution...
Post by: Essence on January 26, 2011, 02:46:13 am
Post by: Marvaddin on January 26, 2011, 02:53:10 am
the effect rly isn't why I don't like the original version...I suppose your Elements experience will get less monotone. How many Gravity decks are you seeing in PVP2 lately?
the fact that it would be in almost every gravity deck is what concerns me...
almost all fire decks are crowded by cremation...
water decks with either octopi, or permafrost...
rainbows with SN...
I rly don't like elements to turn monotone... last week's tourney (which I won, yay) was filled with SN bows... and a lot of matches came down to luck... I rly don't like that style of gaming... I go into PvP2, all i find is SNbow, cremation deck, PSNbow... just a lot of rushes... it's gets boring...
And I suppose there are cards you already see in every Gravity deck, most probably Otyugh, Chargers and Momentum. All elements, in fact, are supposed to have some powerful cards, and some will be more played than others, so what? Lets keep the elements weak, I imagine. "No more powerful cards allowed", instead of "No more OP cards allowed", right?
Post by: TheIdioticIdiot on January 26, 2011, 03:32:22 am
if it turns out powerful, I will be happy for gravity (despite not my favorite, I enjoy momentum)
if it turns out weak... well... then... it's weak... :P
Post by: jmizzle7 on January 26, 2011, 04:08:12 am
There are many outstanding stall cards in Elements that can be combined to make a stall deck. The big question mark surrounding these decks is the win condition. Acceleration provides a very good option that lends itself to stall types very well. It isn't the only option, however (Golem, Machine, Dune Scorpion, etc.).
Mono-Gravity decks will use Acceleration a lot. However, I believe this to be so because of Gravity's otherwise shallow card pool instead of Acceleration's power level. Additionally, it's a brand new card! People are very predictable and will go for the new, shiny toy far more often than the one they played with for the past year.
Post by: Jappert on January 26, 2011, 07:35:16 am
About the stall decks. I saw alot of people bring alot of good arguements to the table, so I'll leave it at that. And like you already said: Overdrive isn't monotone, it's versatile! (you know you said that! And yes I still love you somehow...)
Post by: TheIdioticIdiot on January 26, 2011, 09:07:30 am
The two main points I see TII making are that stalls will benefit greatly from Acceleration, and that mono-Gravity decks will use it in just about every deck from now on. I couldn't agree more, but I don't see it as a bad thing.thank you for understanding what I am saying...
There are many outstanding stall cards in Elements that can be combined to make a stall deck. The big question mark surrounding these decks is the win condition. Acceleration provides a very good option that lends itself to stall types very well. It isn't the only option, however (Golem, Machine, Dune Scorpion, etc.).
Mono-Gravity decks will use Acceleration a lot. However, I believe this to be so because of Gravity's otherwise shallow card pool instead of Acceleration's power level. Additionally, it's a brand new card! People are very predictable and will go for the new, shiny toy far more often than the one they played with for the past year.
Post by: Kuroaitou on January 26, 2011, 09:25:15 pm
Acceleration | Overdrive
| (http://img251.imageshack.us/img251/9534/acceleration.png)(http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/4528/overdrive.png) (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,10924.0.html) | |
| |
| (http://imageplay.net/img/m7Gbd123773/Acceleration.png) (http://POOF) (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,19731.0.html) |
Suggestions and comments? Also, major congratulations to EvaRia for the card concept. ^_^
Post by: TheIdioticIdiot on January 27, 2011, 01:21:51 am
um... guys?
now this card is totally UP... 3 quanta for +1/-1 unupped, and 5 quanta for +2/-1 upped?
I prefer +4/-2 over this...
Post by: Wizardcat on January 27, 2011, 01:24:18 am
Post by: TheIdioticIdiot on January 27, 2011, 09:13:36 am
That's the original card idea, not the actual card.oh. phew...
Post by: freezekougra on January 27, 2011, 12:31:07 pm
Exact deck is 15 towers, 6 chargers, 5 OD, 4 unstoppable
might actually be better than my rainbow deck b/c it hits right through wings...
Post by: GG on January 27, 2011, 01:03:42 pm
Post by: Essence on January 27, 2011, 05:49:09 pm
It's now +3/-1, and it's entirely awesome again. :)
Post by: Ekki on January 27, 2011, 05:59:10 pm
Overdrive has changed in trainer. OP Updated.I guess the upped one is +3|-1... Cool :D
It's now +3/-1, and it's entirely awesome again. :)
Post by: Jappert on January 27, 2011, 06:01:41 pm
Post by: PlayerOa on January 27, 2011, 06:08:54 pm
Overdrive has changed in trainer. OP Updated.:)
It's now +3/-1, and it's entirely awesome again. :)
First came both cards. Then came two nerfs. And now came two buffs.
(with Mitosis)
Post by: Marvaddin on January 28, 2011, 06:11:19 am
I still prefer very very VERY much the initial version.
1) Gravity is a slow element, so I would prefer +4 att bonus.
2) The -1 def makes it much more viable to play in other decks, with any creature, so its no more oriented to the gravity high HP theme, that I think was the original purpose of the card. Also, even with high HP creatures, its now more related to stall decks; the att grows slowly, but the benefit for each turn (in terms of att gain / HP loss) is 3/2 compared to the +4/-2 version (more turns to stall, the better). However, the card is now almost useless as CC. So, I would prefer it more Gravity oriented, in a rush way that Gravity needs, and more versatile.
3) why should this cost 4?!?!?!?! From +4/-2 costing 2 to +3/-1 costing 4? Affffff. Still just a medium card. And why +2/-1 cost 3, when ablaze skill gives +2/0 for 1?
Am I the only one that prefer the original? Just make the orignal Overdrive cost 3 and its perfect.
Post by: EvaRia on January 28, 2011, 06:15:54 am
And also, it the original costed 4.
Post by: Ekki on January 28, 2011, 06:18:28 am
Entirely awesome?
I still prefer very very VERY much the initial version.
1) Gravity is a slow element, so I would prefer +4 att bonus. I would also like it, but it seemed OP
2) The -1 def makes it much more viable to play in other decks, with any creature, so its no more oriented to the gravity high HP theme, that I think was the original purpose of the card. true Also, even with high HP creatures, its now more related to stall decks; the att grows slowly, but the benefit for each turn (in terms of att gain / HP loss) is 3/2 compared to the +4/-2 version (more turns to stall, the better). However, the card is now almost useless as CC. So, I would prefer it more Gravity oriented, in a rush way that Gravity needs, and more versatile. sounds good, but the problem was that +4|-2 was too much growth for free (because for an armagio -2 hp is meh)
3) why should this cost 4?!?!?!?! it had many versions, but +4 per turn for 2 :gravity is overkill (as I said, high hp creatures laugh at the -2 hp) From +4/-2 costing 2 to +3/-1 costing 4? it had lots of buffs/nerfs, for the sake of balancing the game Affffff. Still just a medium card. And why +2/-1 cost 3, when ablaze skill gives +2/0 for 1? ablaze costs 1 each turn, but I agree that the unupped is better at 2 :gravity
Am I the only one that prefer the original? Just make the orignal Overdrive cost 3 and its perfect. I still prefer the new one
Post by: Marvaddin on January 28, 2011, 06:36:16 am
I just think there is no reason to have a medium powered card, weaker, slower, less versatile, less oriented to its theme, with no reason. Where are the decks to be so feared? If it changes the metagame like Fractal, instead of just making Gravity a possible option, lets talk about whats OP and nerf. Its what I think.
Post by: Ekki on January 28, 2011, 02:49:08 pm
Sure, Krathos, +4/-2 seems OP. It seems, but it is? Like pointed before, Steam Machine + SoR is also +4 att per turn, and with no loss of HP. Why is this different? Because SoR is a pseudo-rare? please don't say this, rarity is an imbalancing factor, not a balancing one I agree that -2 HP is nothing to an Armaggio, but again, whats the opponent doing? How many ways there are to stop the combo? BB, Lobotomizer, Eternity, Rewind, Congeal, Liquid Shadow, Mutation, to list some. This not considering shields. This not considering healing, quanta denial and other strategies. The combo can be awesome, but can be stopped by many cards, and its slow at its start, so I doubt it will even be near the better rush decks we already have.You got a point. But the problem is that MONO Gravity has OD, high hp creatures (Armagio, Dragon and Titan) and momentum, which can deny shields. Also stunning effects (freeze, delay) don't stop the growth, while Steam machine lose atk when ungrown... For balancing issues, any awesome skill has to have its drawbacks. Steam machine loses atk every turn, but OD makes you lose hp... in a mono with the element of higher hp creatures.
I just think there is no reason to have a medium powered card, weaker, slower, less versatile, less oriented to its theme, with no reason. Where are the decks to be so feared? If it changes the metagame like Fractal, instead of just making Gravity a possible option, lets talk about whats OP and nerf. Its what I think.
Even though, it can be balanced, since I've never tried it in PvP.
Post by: Essence on January 28, 2011, 04:53:09 pm
Post by: silux on January 28, 2011, 06:05:53 pm
Dune scorpion needs only one attack to inflict a deadly poison!
Post by: Shantu on January 28, 2011, 06:20:35 pm
Post by: TheonlyrealBeef on January 28, 2011, 06:32:45 pm
Post by: Marvaddin on January 28, 2011, 10:04:54 pm
You got a point. But the problem is that MONO Gravity has OD, high hp creatures (Armagio, Dragon and Titan) and momentum, which can deny shields. Also stunning effects (freeze, delay) don't stop the growth, while Steam machine lose atk when ungrown... For balancing issues, any awesome skill has to have its drawbacks. Steam machine loses atk every turn, but OD makes you lose hp... in a mono with the element of higher hp creatures.When you say Armaggio, OD and Momentum, its a 3 card combo, its supposed to be powerful. I just remember the Otyugh + FFQ + Fallen Druid + Boneyard + Bone Wall combo, lol, although its not a comparison. Momentum really can deny shields, but shields are just one of the strategies avaliable for defense. Will it really be used with OD? Or people will prefer Otyugh, for example? Or Black Hole? Or Gravity Pull? Just saying Gravity has a card to deny a strategy doesnt really make the combo better. This because today most decks doesnt really rely on shields, I think. Beyond that, just to point, use of OD on Titan would require another card (animate weapon), so its a harder combo. Dragon is expensive, so the combo is slow. I think the biggest potential of this card, in fact, is with Voodoo Doll, although Armaggio would also be a good target.
Even though, it can be balanced, since I've never tried it in PvP.
Now, I havent tested it, but if freeze and delay dont stop growth from OD, this should be changed. Like Angels recovering HP from OD creature. I havent tested, but I think it reduce creature max HP, and so no healing possible. These really are unbalance things that can be corrected.
Well, about more tests needed, looks like we just agree. :)
Post by: Essence on January 28, 2011, 10:34:25 pm
Quote
I havent tested, but I think it reduce creature max HP, and so no healing possibleNot the case. Like Rage Pot, while the card says -1 HP, it actually simply deals 1 damage per turn, much akin to Liquid Shadow only without the cool icon. :)
Post by: Ekki on January 28, 2011, 10:45:54 pm
When you say Armaggio, OD and Momentum, its a 3 card combo I meant that you can add both OD and momentum in any Duo, since they're from the same element, its supposed to be powerful. I just remember the Otyugh + FFQ + Fallen Druid + Boneyard + Bone Wall combo, lol, although its not a comparison. Momentum really can deny shields, but shields are just one of the strategies avaliable for defense. Will it really be used with OD? Or people will prefer Otyugh, for example? Or Black Hole? Or Gravity Pull? Just saying Gravity has a card to deny a strategy doesnt really make the combo better. This because today most decks doesnt really rely on shields, I think. Beyond that, just to point, use of OD on Titan would require another card (animate weapon), so its a harder combo. Dragon is expensive, so the combo is slow. I think the biggest potential of this card, in fact, is with Voodoo Doll, although Armaggio would also be a good target. that's why I choose Armagios for this card
Now, I havent tested it, but if freeze and delay dont stop growth from OD apparently, nothing stops OD'd creatures from growing, this should be changed. Like Angels recovering HP from OD creature. I havent tested, but I think it reduce creature max HP, and so no healing possible. These really are unbalance things that can be corrected. to the hp thing, Essence already answered. And I see it as new mechanics that have to be corrected, I like the way it is right now, and I'm actually using it.
Well, about more tests needed, looks like we just agree. :) certainly
Post by: skyreal on January 29, 2011, 01:35:34 pm
Not the case. Like Rage Pot, while the card says -1 HP, it actually simply deals 1 damage per turn, much akin to Liquid Shadow only without the cool icon. :)that's weird!
shouldn't -x HP also decrease max HP? (so that it can't be healed)
Post by: Korugar on January 29, 2011, 03:54:28 pm
Post by: Darklight on February 02, 2011, 02:36:10 am
As if otyughs weren't enough @_@
Post by: doublecross on February 02, 2011, 02:37:03 am
Post by: TheIdioticIdiot on February 02, 2011, 02:42:28 am
Post by: EvaRia on February 03, 2011, 07:47:15 am
But now, After some experimenting, I think some corrections might need to be made.
A Voodoo doll with Overdrive and Adrenaline on it will actually do NEGATIVE damage on the last attack on the first turn it's out.
I'm pretty sure that's not supposed to happen, so something went wrong somewhere....
Post by: Ekki on February 03, 2011, 08:01:14 am
You know, when I heard Zanz talking about Acceleration and adrenaline, and that the math is messed up, I sort of thought "Yeah, it would be." and dismissed it.Happens to mi with OD'd Adrenalined Armagios... May be some math mistake due to the increasing attack, but dunno.
But now, After some experimenting, I think some corrections might need to be made.
A Voodoo doll with Overdrive and Adrenaline on it will actually do NEGATIVE damage on the last attack on the first turn it's out.
I'm pretty sure that's not supposed to happen, so something went wrong somewhere....
Post by: skyreal on February 04, 2011, 01:32:11 pm
Post by: EvaRia on February 04, 2011, 03:59:43 pm
Why not applying the effect at the start of attack or at the very end of the turn (to avoid multiple attacks combo)?The multiple attacks are intended, it's just the math is incredibly messed up.
Post by: Essence on February 10, 2011, 08:31:39 pm
"Today you will be a (Mass * Acceleration) to be reckoned with. Use it, Luke."
Post by: ZephyrPhantom on February 11, 2011, 09:08:09 pm
"Break through your troubles today and you'll get something great." (sort of like how over time Acceleration builds up damage)
Post by: TheIdioticIdiot on February 11, 2011, 09:15:05 pm
Post by: Captain Scibra on February 21, 2011, 04:01:10 am
Post by: Sintendo337 on February 21, 2011, 01:45:08 pm
Post by: 777 on February 25, 2011, 07:21:12 am
Only creature that makes it seem reasonable to take place in deck is voodoo. But even with voodoo it's quite weak in comparsion to other builds. Or it's just other cards are OP.
Conclusion: It should be either cumulative, just as blessing and other buffs or don't remove active skill(like momentum and adrenaline) or both.
Post by: Essence on February 25, 2011, 09:38:25 am
The only thing you need to make it absolutely perfect is Mometum, which happens to be in the same element.
Post by: 777 on February 25, 2011, 01:18:02 pm
No offense, but you're on crack.Whoa! Whole PvP organizer is talking. I'd better go before gravity generated by your massive ego makes a black hole here! :D
Got any examples of 'absurdly amazing' builds? For now your uber killing machine needs 3+ cards to make and countered by one cheap card :time
Post by: GG on February 25, 2011, 01:49:48 pm
Immolation golem rushes are easily beaten with decks that contain massive amount of creature controls.No offense, but you're on crack.Whoa! Whole PvP organizer is talking. I'd better go before gravity generated by your massive ego makes a black hole here! :D
Got any examples of 'absurdly amazing' builds? For now your uber killing machine needs 3+ cards to make and countered by one cheap card :time
Rainbow rushes are feeble against Black holes.
Purify counters poison stall perfectly.
Plague counters adrenaline [whatever creature].
Thunderstorm counters Fractal Phoenixes.
Most of the decks I've listed above some of the best decks in elements. They have specific counters, but that doesn't mean that they're bad decks.
And Essence deserves to have a massive ego that generates black hole
Post by: Essence on February 25, 2011, 02:30:11 pm
Code: [Select]
744 744 744 744 744 744 744 745 745 745 745 745 745 74i 74i 74i 74i 74i 74i 75m 75m 75m 75m 75m 75m 80b 80b 80b 80b 80b 80bThe beautiful thing about Overdrive is that the AI loves to Lobo is once your Charger is 16/2 or 19/1, at which point it doesn't die on it's own anymore and just sits there pummeling them. :)
See, you could think of Overdrive as a mediocre card that needs a 3-card combo to get started -- OR you can choose a combo that works with it, doesn't need as many cards, and still deals more than 200 damage in 8-10 turns. Guess which one gives you the more appropriate balance level?
Post by: 777 on February 26, 2011, 06:36:33 am
My king-fu is better. ^-^
lv3 7-9 ttw. This is only build I could think of to make plain acceleration useful.
Code: [Select]
55k 55k 55k 55k 55k 55k 55k 55k 55k 55k 55k 55k 55s 55s 55s 55s 55s 55s 562 562 562 562 562 562 5oi 5oi 5oi 5oi 5oi 5oi??? = Accelerationlv5 ~11 ttw. Can do with just animate weapon and overdrive upgraded.
Code: [Select]
744 744 744 744 744 744 74c 74c 74c 74c 74c 74c 74i 74i 74i 74i 74i 74i 75m 75m 75m 75m 75m 75m 7n2 7n2 7n2 7n2 7n2 7n2??? = OverdriveDay of flying hammers, as i call it. But it requires 6 titans so i can't build it in actual game.
My point still stands. It's will be better cumulative.
Post by: Ekki on February 26, 2011, 06:51:52 am
My point still stands. It's will be better cumulative.The problem is that cumullative, it'll be broken. That simple. It would need a raise in its cost, making it less useful by itself and only good using 6 in a deck (pure balance maths). It would end like Chimera. A VERY situational card that is UP in most cases, and seem OP in some others. That's bad.
I still don't know what are you basing off to say it needs a buff. You can see there are lots of good deckbuilds around acceleration/overdrive, but you seem to say "it's UP" because you can't use it. I say you should try some previously tested decks. If it works, why it should need a Buff/Nerf? There are cases when this happens, but I want to hear your opinion.
Post by: 777 on February 26, 2011, 08:40:27 am
The problem of gravily that it lacks strong attackers so it'll be of use anyway.
I'm not saying it shold be 3|-1 AND cumulative. Maybe overdrive can be be 1-2 :gravity 2|-1
For now elite version almost twice more effective for no real cost of quanta(since towers give +1 :gravity).
If it has to be that way, i think 2|-1 3 :gravity vs 4|-2 6 :gravity is more reasonable. At least ratio is kept. Plain is more rainbow-friendly that way and upped more specialized for mono-duo-trio decks.
Post by: Seiya on February 27, 2011, 06:23:13 pm
Post by: TheonlyrealBeef on February 27, 2011, 06:29:01 pm
Massive Dragons are now useful again. Flying Titans are incredibly useful now. Quick question. Is this lobotomizable?Yes, it's an ability like any other, also meaning using this removes the old ability.
Post by: TheIdioticIdiot on February 27, 2011, 07:53:10 pm
Massive Dragons are now useful again. Flying Titans are incredibly useful now. Quick question. Is this lobotomizable?actually, massive dragons still suck...
Post by: Essence on February 27, 2011, 08:18:27 pm
Post by: Seiya on February 27, 2011, 11:40:32 pm
How do they still suck? If you use Overdrive on them, they can gain a massive attack boost for minimal hp loss. HP based CC can't really affect it that much?Massive Dragons are now useful again. Flying Titans are incredibly useful now. Quick question. Is this lobotomizable?actually, massive dragons still suck...
Post by: OldTrees on February 27, 2011, 11:41:36 pm
They cost too much for even the Overdrive to be effective. Armagios are much better priced for similar hp.How do they still suck? If you use Overdrive on them, they can gain a massive attack boost for minimal hp loss. HP based CC can't really affect it that much?Massive Dragons are now useful again. Flying Titans are incredibly useful now. Quick question. Is this lobotomizable?actually, massive dragons still suck...
Post by: Seiya on February 27, 2011, 11:46:08 pm
Post by: PlayerOa on February 28, 2011, 02:11:59 pm
Ah, good point. Forgot about the Armagios. Thanks. And thank you to TheonlyrealBeef and Essence for answering my original question.But Flying Titans is pretty good, as you have pointed out :)
Post by: Zeru on February 28, 2011, 07:42:03 pm
Post by: TheIdioticIdiot on February 28, 2011, 08:25:00 pm
This is not a place to talk about massive dragons and other high hp creatures, but I will say something anyway. Almost any cool hp based spell will work best with Voodoo, it overshadows any other creature in hp/cost ratio.not just hp/cost ratio
also damage/cost ratio...
Post by: Zeru on February 28, 2011, 08:37:48 pm
not just hp/cost ratio0? I am not impressed :D
also damage/cost ratio...
Post by: Ekki on February 28, 2011, 08:39:40 pm
0? I am not impressed :Dlol, but it's true that the direct relationship between Damage/Cost ratio and HP/Cost Ratio makes Vodoo Doll a great choice for atk/hp modifiers. I think I'll start using them now :P
Post by: TheIdioticIdiot on February 28, 2011, 09:01:26 pm
I mean with +attack/-hp buffs like rage pot and OD...not just hp/cost ratio0? I am not impressed :D
also damage/cost ratio...
it has more damage/cost ratio too
Post by: GG on March 01, 2011, 06:13:46 pm
Now the most powerful gravity spell card is in its proper section :D
Post by: SniperElit on March 02, 2011, 02:50:06 pm
Post by: TheIdioticIdiot on March 02, 2011, 03:08:06 pm
Moved to Gravity Card subforum.really? I think BH is the most powerful, but that's just me...
Now the most powerful gravity spell card is in its proper section :D
Post by: Korugar on March 02, 2011, 03:14:28 pm
Post by: Jappert on March 03, 2011, 01:31:58 pm
the most powerful gravity spell cardI've been grinding AI5 alot to win me some of these beauties. But I lost alot of games vs Gravity Halfbloods. Overdrive + Momentum is the main reason for that since I rely heavily on shields.
Either way, that +3/-1 is an absolute beast combined with momentum! I'm loving it. ::)
Post by: deadlyd1001 on March 07, 2011, 04:33:39 am
Post by: Bhlewos on March 09, 2011, 07:42:50 am
Post by: Avenger on March 10, 2011, 05:44:02 pm
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Post by: Rhenium on November 23, 2017, 05:16:44 pm
Post by: DoctorC on November 24, 2017, 02:44:19 pm
Apparently you can use overdrive on a ball lightning?! Seems a bit daft that a creature with no health to start with can be overdriven. Obviously it would be a silly strategy :sillyspin:
While it is possible to target Ball Lightning with overdrive/acceleration, it really doesn't mean that you have to. Same for a lot of combinations of cards, such as dissipation shield with sanctuaries.
Post by: andretimpa on November 24, 2017, 04:34:22 pm
Apparently you can use overdrive on a ball lightning?! Seems a bit daft that a creature with no health to start with can be overdriven. Obviously it would be a silly strategy :sillyspin:
While it is possible to target Ball Lightning with overdrive/acceleration, it really doesn't mean that you have to. Same for a lot of combinations of cards, such as dissipation shield with sanctuaries.
AI loves to use acceleration in sparks, we all could learn from it :sillyspin: