*Author

TheMadEvil

  • Guest
Re: which is stronger, good or evil? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=3620.msg33464#msg33464
« Reply #24 on: March 05, 2010, 07:56:04 pm »
Umm...what?


And for the record, SG, all you "should have said" was this:

"Hey, I've put together an event that I think will be fun!  Competition is encouraged, but don't expect a level playing field -- this is about storyline, not winning.  Everyone choose a side."
If dog rabbit...SG is asking you to look at it from her point of view. Don't say what "should have been done" or said, or whatever. The best way to approach this kind of issue is by giving suggestions, just like critiquing a new deck. Offer suggestions on how to better approach this issue in the future, because, as she said, SG had no way of knowing that her words would elicit this type of response. This is not the only thing happening in her life, I'm sure, and there are more important things on her plate than making sure everyone in the Elements community is 'happy'. Yes, as an administrator it is her job to keep everyone happy and take suggestions and make sure no one is doing anything they shouldn't be doing and chime in on threads and give updates and...you get the gist, it's not an easy job. Haven't you ever said something you thought was right but was taken in the wrong way? How do you take it when someone tells you "That was wrong, you failed, this is how it's done" when you already know all of that. Suggestion is key, be nice about it people.
Also, be thankful for all she does...it's not easy I'm sure, and two threads of "EPIC SG FAIL LOL!!!111!!!1`1!~1!~~ YOu sUCk BLAH" is not something that she wants to see, EVER.

Not to be mean, but it's upsetting to me when people don't use common courtesy

Offline tyranimTopic starter

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 2877
  • Reputation Power: 34
  • tyranim is a Ghost, obsessed with their Elemental pursuits.tyranim is a Ghost, obsessed with their Elemental pursuits.tyranim is a Ghost, obsessed with their Elemental pursuits.tyranim is a Ghost, obsessed with their Elemental pursuits.tyranim is a Ghost, obsessed with their Elemental pursuits.tyranim is a Ghost, obsessed with their Elemental pursuits.
  • formerly unit
Re: which is stronger, good or evil? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=3620.msg33528#msg33528
« Reply #25 on: March 05, 2010, 10:25:45 pm »
the reason i made this thread was because the "debate" was inevitable, and was clogging the important thread. i honestly think the tournament is completely unpredictable when it comes to how "unbalanced" it is. i just made this thread so the "debaters" would stop clogging the war thread. so stop saying its pointless, when it isnt. the only way to stop the debating is to ban everyone who debates about it, and i dont see that ever happening
my milkshake brings all the boys to the yard and they're like "its better than yours" damn right, its better than yours! i can teach you but i'd have to charge!

Offline Kamietsu

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 3228
  • Country: us
  • Reputation Power: 47
  • Kamietsu is towering like an Amethyst Dragon over their peers.Kamietsu is towering like an Amethyst Dragon over their peers.Kamietsu is towering like an Amethyst Dragon over their peers.Kamietsu is towering like an Amethyst Dragon over their peers.Kamietsu is towering like an Amethyst Dragon over their peers.Kamietsu is towering like an Amethyst Dragon over their peers.Kamietsu is towering like an Amethyst Dragon over their peers.Kamietsu is towering like an Amethyst Dragon over their peers.Kamietsu is towering like an Amethyst Dragon over their peers.
  • Old to Elements
  • Awards: Spell Art Competition WinnerWinner of the MASH-UP CompetitionFunny Card Competition WinnerWinner of
Re: which is stronger, good or evil? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=3620.msg33560#msg33560
« Reply #26 on: March 05, 2010, 11:17:13 pm »
If we have these in the future, I think it would probably be best to appoint two random elemental masters (probably opposites or "rivals") as team captains, then let them choose which elements they want on their side. That's about as fair as we could get on a consistent basis, and if it's in any way unfair, we'll just have the elemental master to blame for picking poorly.
I like that. I deleted the rest of the quote there because I didn't like the rest of it. Designate two captains to pick teams, I would choose Light and Dark to be the two captains (since they are the most obvious rivalry) and then just let them pick. As for who they pick, who cares if fire and water end on the same side? I know I don't because it wouldn't be about opposites fighting it out, it would be purely about Team A versus Team B.
╔╦╦═╦══╦╗  ( ̄ー ̄) --Snorlax says:
║═╣╬║║║║║    Eat your shower, brush your toothpaste, take your teeth.
╚╩╩╩╩╩╩╩╝

Offline Demagog

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 2557
  • Reputation Power: 40
  • Demagog soars like the Phoenix, unable to be repressed.Demagog soars like the Phoenix, unable to be repressed.Demagog soars like the Phoenix, unable to be repressed.Demagog soars like the Phoenix, unable to be repressed.Demagog soars like the Phoenix, unable to be repressed.Demagog soars like the Phoenix, unable to be repressed.Demagog soars like the Phoenix, unable to be repressed.Demagog soars like the Phoenix, unable to be repressed.
  • New to Elements
Re: which is stronger, good or evil? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=3620.msg33571#msg33571
« Reply #27 on: March 05, 2010, 11:37:45 pm »
If we have these in the future, I think it would probably be best to appoint two random elemental masters (probably opposites or "rivals") as team captains, then let them choose which elements they want on their side. That's about as fair as we could get on a consistent basis, and if it's in any way unfair, we'll just have the elemental master to blame for picking poorly.
I like that. I deleted the rest of the quote there because I didn't like the rest of it. Designate two captains to pick teams, I would choose Light and Dark to be the two captains (since they are the most obvious rivalry) and then just let them pick. As for who they pick, who cares if fire and water end on the same side? I know I don't because it wouldn't be about opposites fighting it out, it would be purely about Team A versus Team B.
The methods of picking I discussed were just ways we would be able to set up future wars. I wasn't advocating one over the other. Sometimes we might do it the old fashioned way (the kind you said you like), other times we might want an "opposites" war, where no opposites are on the same team. And the picking two at a time method is just a way of taking away the "advantage" of the person that gets to pick first. With ten elements to choose from though, it's not much of an advantage.

To clarify: I was thinking of future wars, not a way to improve the current one.

Scaredgirl

  • Guest
Re: which is stronger, good or evil? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=3620.msg33590#msg33590
« Reply #28 on: March 06, 2010, 12:08:39 am »
If we have these in the future, I think it would probably be best to appoint two random elemental masters (probably opposites or "rivals") as team captains, then let them choose which elements they want on their side. That's about as fair as we could get on a consistent basis, and if it's in any way unfair, we'll just have the elemental master to blame for picking poorly.
I like that. I deleted the rest of the quote there because I didn't like the rest of it. Designate two captains to pick teams, I would choose Light and Dark to be the two captains (since they are the most obvious rivalry) and then just let them pick. As for who they pick, who cares if fire and water end on the same side? I know I don't because it wouldn't be about opposites fighting it out, it would be purely about Team A versus Team B.
The methods of picking I discussed were just ways we would be able to set up future wars. I wasn't advocating one over the other. Sometimes we might do it the old fashioned way (the kind you said you like), other times we might want an "opposites" war, where no opposites are on the same team. And the picking two at a time method is just a way of taking away the "advantage" of the person that gets to pick first. With ten elements to choose from though, it's not much of an advantage.

To clarify: I was thinking of future wars, not a way to improve the current one.
Yes, the teams should of course change. No point in having the same 6 vs. 6 every time.

*sigh* I guess I have to reveal my original plan then which was this:

- a new War would happen 6 times a year, once per every 2 months
- the forum background graphics would change depending which side won so that the losers get reminded of their failure each day
- In the first War there would be these "Good" vs "Evil" like I proposed
- in the second War there would be "Good"  :air :life :light :water vs. "Neutral"  :aether :time :entropy :gravity vs. "Evil"  :darkness :death :earth :fire
- in the third War maybe something like "Forces of Nature"  :air :earth :life :death :water :fire vs. "Higher Power" :light :darkness :time :aether :entropy :gravity
etc.

Something like that.

The idea was to have these different Wars, each with their own little storyline (for the geeks who like those :) ), that would give reason to why some of the Elements switched sides. We have some excellent writers in this community who could have written our story as we do PvP.

That kind of system gives more "epic" to the event than your average high school basketball team picking, although gameplay wise the end result would be pretty much the same as the teams change.

There's more to it but that's the basic idea.

Offline tyranimTopic starter

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 2877
  • Reputation Power: 34
  • tyranim is a Ghost, obsessed with their Elemental pursuits.tyranim is a Ghost, obsessed with their Elemental pursuits.tyranim is a Ghost, obsessed with their Elemental pursuits.tyranim is a Ghost, obsessed with their Elemental pursuits.tyranim is a Ghost, obsessed with their Elemental pursuits.tyranim is a Ghost, obsessed with their Elemental pursuits.
  • formerly unit
Re: which is stronger, good or evil? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=3620.msg33594#msg33594
« Reply #29 on: March 06, 2010, 12:14:08 am »
its a little pathetic how sg was FORCED into revealing a confidential thing like that JUST to shut everyone up. shes the admin, if you dont like the way she is doing things, make it known ONCE with a list of GOOD reasons why what she is doing is wrong, instead of a continuous stream of complaints. if you feel like your still being ignored, dont bother with forums then. wait till there is a new admin and see how he/she does.
my milkshake brings all the boys to the yard and they're like "its better than yours" damn right, its better than yours! i can teach you but i'd have to charge!

Rahlious

  • Guest
Re: which is stronger, good or evil? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=3620.msg33605#msg33605
« Reply #30 on: March 06, 2010, 12:34:04 am »
Discussion like this should not be taken personal or made personal.   When people remain rational (yeah, that is hard for some), discussions like this can be fun and exciting.  The problem here is people are getting all worked up over nothing.  If you don't want to discuss it or read it, then ignore this thread.


Offline Demagog

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 2557
  • Reputation Power: 40
  • Demagog soars like the Phoenix, unable to be repressed.Demagog soars like the Phoenix, unable to be repressed.Demagog soars like the Phoenix, unable to be repressed.Demagog soars like the Phoenix, unable to be repressed.Demagog soars like the Phoenix, unable to be repressed.Demagog soars like the Phoenix, unable to be repressed.Demagog soars like the Phoenix, unable to be repressed.Demagog soars like the Phoenix, unable to be repressed.
  • New to Elements
Re: which is stronger, good or evil? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=3620.msg33606#msg33606
« Reply #31 on: March 06, 2010, 12:35:02 am »
She wasn't forced to do anything lol... and there was no need for her to hide her intentions in the first place; in fact, it likely would have prevented the events which have occurred. Also, she didn't reveal it to shut people up, or at least it doesn't seem that way...

Quote
Yes, the teams should of course change. No point in having the same 6 vs. 6 every time.

*sigh* I guess I have to reveal my original plan then which was this:
After that she merely explains her original plan. It's just a response to my post, not an attempt to stop people from complaining.

In response to your post, SG, I think that's a decent way of going about things in the future. Although I'd think we could have one every month if we wanted.

Also, was there any reason to putting five people in each element? I would think four in each would plenty.

PhantomFox

  • Guest
Re: which is stronger, good or evil? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=3620.msg33609#msg33609
« Reply #32 on: March 06, 2010, 12:44:59 am »
Let me see if I can explain everyone's point of view.  I'm aiming to understand where everyone is coming from.  To show how we got in this mess.  I'm trying to not assign blame, but encourage understanding.  There are always two sides to any story, and most often neither side is blameless.  Let me see if I got the story straight...

The thread goes up.  We see a two sided war.  People go "Ooh, this looks like fun" and sign up.  At that moment, we don't know much of anything about the event.  More importantly, because they don't know anything, they draw their own conclusions.  This is important, as it's not until much later that intentions become known and misconceptions have to be corrected.

The competitive people see this as a contest.  That's the way they are.  Competitive people want to win.  And indeed, when the words "war" and "versus" are thrown around, there's a lot to encourage this point of view and little to say otherwise.  Especially with no other 'just for fun' events around.  It doesn't matter that there's no prize involved, or no rules as of yet, they're in it to win it!  But then they see that the sides are uneven.  The preconception of "this is a contest to win" (later revealed to be faulty) leads them to "This contest is badly designed".  This is exacerbated with the competitive people who chose the weaker side do to thematic or elemental preferences (i.e. "I want to be the good guys!" or "I want to be on the Gravity team!"). 

Meanwhile the people in it "just for fun" are wondering what the big deal is.  They are more concerned about the story rather than the outcome.  Their preconception of "This is an event for novelty" is later confirmed with SG "Who cares about balance?  I just wanted to Good vs. Evil." clarification of the purpose of this event. 

Once the original intent of "This is a fun event, not a finely tuned competition" was shown, some had trouble changing their "In it to win it (and fairly!)" mindset.  A compromise is attempted where suggestions are made to  try to modify the teams to be fair while still keeping (roughly) to the themes.  However, "Balances is more important" clashes with "Theme is more important" and the sparks fly once again.  And the people who have different opinions on the existence of imbalance in the first place get mixed in too, starting fires.  These flames set off the content bystanders who cry "Quit messing with it and let's get started!"

And then the whole place explodes.  The people who assumed (and demanded) "competition!" keep clashing with those who wanted "fun event!", the designer among them.  And the word of the event's designer is final, and did not appear (key word: appear) to want to change the core concept or dilute the theme.  And then the whole thing snowballs.

...which is how we got to where we are now.  Is this more or less correct?  Or am I out in left field?

Offline mafidufa

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 209
  • Reputation Power: 3
  • mafidufa is a Spark waiting for a buff.
  • New to Elements
Re: which is stronger, good or evil? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=3620.msg33617#msg33617
« Reply #33 on: March 06, 2010, 01:18:19 am »
So, at this point is anyone actually against just going ahead with the event as it is? Warts and all? I was kind of looking forward to this.

Offline Demagog

  • Legendary Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 2557
  • Reputation Power: 40
  • Demagog soars like the Phoenix, unable to be repressed.Demagog soars like the Phoenix, unable to be repressed.Demagog soars like the Phoenix, unable to be repressed.Demagog soars like the Phoenix, unable to be repressed.Demagog soars like the Phoenix, unable to be repressed.Demagog soars like the Phoenix, unable to be repressed.Demagog soars like the Phoenix, unable to be repressed.Demagog soars like the Phoenix, unable to be repressed.
  • New to Elements
Re: which is stronger, good or evil? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=3620.msg33621#msg33621
« Reply #34 on: March 06, 2010, 01:23:33 am »
You're pretty much correct Phantom... although I'm not entirely sure that anyone is complaining anymore.

Someone started a poll asking that somewhere, mafidufa, but it was locked and may have been deleted... I think everyone that voted except SG still wanted the event to happen ASAP (in other words ignoring the postponement).

 

blarg: