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Toge111

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Which element wins if you're only allowed to make mono decks? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=35678.msg448879#msg448879
« on: January 14, 2012, 04:23:13 am »
Details:
All cards of one element
No "other" cards
Mark can be anything
Deck changing is allowed between rounds
Opponent element is known before fight

Every element is played against every other element same number of times. Number of rounds has to be sufficiently large so that random chance is diminished. The element with most wins is the best.

Which element do you think would win such competition?

Quabal

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Re: Which element wins if you're only allowed to make mono decks? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=35678.msg448881#msg448881
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2012, 04:44:36 am »
Probably fire. Mono-fire decks tend to be pretty common even in an environment where people aren't restricted to mono decks.

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Re: Which element wins if you're only allowed to make mono decks? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=35678.msg448893#msg448893
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2012, 05:25:30 am »
Discord ???

Re: Which element wins if you're only allowed to make mono decks? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=35678.msg448896#msg448896
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2012, 05:37:59 am »
Clarification Questions:
There are a several variations of each mono deck available, some would work against some others differently?  Do you mean all combinations of all cards?  I think only an automated test solution can figure something like that out.
 
Second, do you mean if they pitted against one another or which one is the most powerful in the game.  For Farming Purposes  :aether is the most used mono farming element that shows up.

But then, there are more questions is are we doing nymphs?  Are we including Shards? Upgraded or Unupgraded? Etc, etc...

The most powerful mono upgraded with nymphs?  My guess  :entropy :darkness :death :fire  would probably be the top third of them. 








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Re: Which element wins if you're only allowed to make mono decks? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=35678.msg448898#msg448898
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2012, 05:41:22 am »
Which element do you think would win such competition?
Semi random. Increasingly random as the game matured/matures.

Assuming round robin with opponents known I would guess one of:
 :entropy for the automatic wins against  :aether :air :death :gravity :life :time :water
 :fire for its competent flexibility
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Re: Which element wins if you're only allowed to make mono decks? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=35678.msg448903#msg448903
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2012, 06:04:10 am »
Overquanta'd monos actually can bounce back from Discord a whole lot easier than a duo deck can.

It will generally come down to which elements can find a reliable way around Dim Shield.
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Offline mesaprotector

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Re: Which element wins if you're only allowed to make mono decks? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=35678.msg448913#msg448913
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2012, 06:22:20 am »
Probably :entropy, but not just because of discord (which still should give you ~2 turns stalling in mono). Mono-entropy has tons of CC (Maxwell's Demon takes care of virtually every rush, Pandemonium deals with mono-life), and has a decent amount of damage with Abominations and Purple Dragons. Besides, if rushing doesn't work there's always Diss Shield. :P

:fire isn't as strong as it used to be, and most "fire" decks use cards from other elements, whether for Immos or as in Sanc Stall. Still, cheap PC and control helps.

The only other element I can see winning is :aether , just because of Dim Shields. Against elements without much CC Phase Spider rush can be pretty fast.

<rant>
If there were actually a competition like this the mark should have to be the same as the element. I still don't get how Graboid rush is a "mono" and upped flying weapon decks are duos. Categorization should really be based on what sort of quanta is used in the deck, since that's where all the balancing problems show up.
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Re: Which element wins if you're only allowed to make mono decks? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=35678.msg448948#msg448948
« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2012, 07:48:12 am »
 :entropy  :fire  :gravity  :aether  :life  :death

Strongest mono elements in order of my own opinion.
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Re: Which element wins if you're only allowed to make mono decks? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=35678.msg448950#msg448950
« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2012, 08:12:38 am »
Yeah, upped flying and upped  :gravity puts  :gravity on the field in a big way, flying titans with acceleration would do some serious damage against most others,  :time and  :entropy would be the only things that hold against it.

I didn't see the rule with the mark, graboids and quake could do some real damage.

Here is what I see true mono.  Perm Control and Creature Control will rule the day, it's the counter to most shields, most powerful effects, most cards, good control here causes everything else to drop off.

 :water outside of a creature rush has a lot of card's that go with other elements, the full power of water is not realized in mono form.  The nymph's tears and it's nymph itself is also unable to realize its full power.
The result is water because creature control/creature rush deck... no perm control

 :earth although has quake, in an upped game, against a player it only serves to provide delay and hope to beat it with it's own rush.  It's weapon loses it's effectiveness in a big way, and cheap creature control will make earth stop in it's tracks...   :time  :entropy  :water  :aether  :death  :darkness  :fire all have atleast one form of very effective super cheap CC, again no perm control outside of pillar control.  We also don't have catapult to murake use of high defense synergies and it's nymph is relegated just creature control


 :life would be a standard frog rush deck most likely...  So creature rush/healing...  it's nymph could be the source of acceleration, or just the card too,  the weapon is mainly a tad bit more healing.  It's only creature control is it's shield.    Again that same set of elements will make this die on impact.

 :air has CC but it's a bit delayed, outside of that, like  :water a lot of it's cards rely on other elements...  again never seeing the true power of air it's nymph like water is also no good here.

So I see those in the bottom third.

Now

 :light would be bigger creatures like the dragons and with it's nymph becomes a modified hope deck pretty quickly... relying on it's shield and sanctuaries/miracle to stay alive...  it can hold out, but good creature control / a good shield / perm control would beat it still...  only out of use of miracle does it have a chance.

 :gravity I would guess and standard gravity rush deck, with devours and/or blackholes added in depending on efficency, not certain what would be tightest.  It can do a lot of damage quickly and ignore shields...  with momentum it has that edge the first 4 listed don't, however it's still subject to that creature control or stomped on another equally impressive rush.   The nymph can be interesting here, for a denial effects

 :aether is a two trick pony, it has it's dim shield chain, against the bottom five it stops it dead, but against perm control it's a sitting duck. it's only savior is then twin universe which can turn tables quickly against such decks...  but that really only helps against those playing big cards

  :time with sundials and hourglasses/precogs will be able to offer damage delay while speeding through their deck to toss out some heavy hitting damage all at once, use eternity to prevent deckout.  The thing is time is so expensive and requires the right early cards and a good flow of electrum early.  So, the perm and mana control abilities can stop this

Top 4 in my humble opinion:

 :entropy is really a wild card, but it's shield requires a lot of damage to beat, it has massive creature control, perm control, and can do some surprising things, chaos power allows it's weak creatures to become very strong, it's rivals though are also in this top 4 and when I've played, most of the time death/darkness and fire will beat it out, but not always.

 :death get's around most healing/shields/perm effects/creature control with it's massive poison abilities, a 30 poison hit counter can by a pain that only water can stop. It has creature control all over the place, plague, virus, etc...  and with a bone wall and bone yards it can go ahead and not care about an enemies creature control, it keeps feeding it's wall.  Also it has an alternative source around pillars for electrum.  It's wall if properly fed, also is one of the toughest walls.  It's weapon only feeds to poison.  Though you need to keep it tight, so you can't count on all of it's effects, what the tightest is, I'm not sure.

 :darkness has a complete package, but nothing greatly overpowered, it has creature control/healing/perm control/perm protection/a reasonable shield/a reasonable weapon.  The key card though is steal.  A funny thing about most of the shields, is they are really good at protecting against it's own element, fire creatures die quickly against a firewall for example.  Stealing the right perm for darkness switches the whole capabilities of the game.  It's perm control is not just control but ownership that can quickly shut down just about any mono deck.  It's only weakness really is in the form of creature control, but it's nymph can make up for some of that, and drain life at a upped cost of 1, is suitable for the spell version, or to be saved for some last might 24 damage against opponent and heal.

 :fire although recently nerfed, is one of the most powerful elements in mono form.  It's weapon can build up to massive damage, it's dragon's upgraded are massive damage, upped phoenixes with cremation can get around perm/pillar control.  It also got great perm control too.  It also has great creature control out of it's butt.  and with firelance capable of doing 36 damage, a fire stall is really tough to beat.

Just my two cents

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Re: Which element wins if you're only allowed to make mono decks? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=35678.msg449093#msg449093
« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2012, 09:24:38 pm »
I'd place my bets on  :fire :darkness and  :entropy. Why? Because those are the three that have CC, PC, and damage packed into one element.

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Re: Which element wins if you're only allowed to make mono decks? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=35678.msg449095#msg449095
« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2012, 09:40:10 pm »
Clarification Questions:
There are a several variations of each mono deck available, some would work against some others differently?  Do you mean all combinations of all cards?  I think only an automated test solution can figure something like that out.
- I was thinking this purely theoretically. The best possible deck that works against most possible combinations of opponent's element. For example, a life deck that has best chance of beating a death deck against death deck that has best chance to beat a life deck. Nymphs are allowed as they're under their respective elements, but no shards as they are 'other' cards.

Offline pedzacyzolw

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Re: Which element wins if you're only allowed to make mono decks? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=35678.msg449108#msg449108
« Reply #11 on: January 15, 2012, 12:22:02 am »
Darkness or entropy-they are the most versatile elements. I`m not so sure about fire since it`s very vulnerable to CC and has no healing

 

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