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Offline Dm

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Re: Which Cards are not worth upgrading? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=9141.msg107807#msg107807
« Reply #12 on: July 04, 2010, 07:47:26 pm »
dissipation shield - dissipation field. worst upgrade EVER
not if you use QT's :P

 my first upped card was that. I thought it would help xD but I was still using a mono-entropy. it was a total fail and deception for me

Offline jmdt

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Re: Which Cards are not worth upgrading? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=9141.msg107827#msg107827
« Reply #13 on: July 04, 2010, 08:17:02 pm »
I saw the thread on which cards to upgrade, and it got me thinking in reverse... as one who was pleasantly suprised to win a relic, and not knowing what to do with it, I upgraded it of course.  Doh.

1.  Relic - pointless upgraded
2.  Sundial -  a moot point, but it is used unupgraded the vast majority of the time.

What next?  Giant frogs/Jade staffs are often unupgraded for the adreneline rush.  For nymphs I note it is advised to keep unupgraded for tournies.  I understand there are benefits to keeping certain dragons unupgraded?  Any others...
I disagree on the frog.  Giant frog is tied with graboid for the most cost effective creature in the game at 5 damage for 2 cost.  I also prefer the upped frog in adrenaline life rushes as you will ultimately not have all the frogs adrenalined and 5>>3 when looking at shields.  Ive done calculations, and the 11-12 damage difference between upped and unupped frogs doesn't have an appreciable effect on deck speed or effectiveness.   Upped frogs and MUCH better in my opinion.

Offline RavingRabbid

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Re: Which Cards are not worth upgrading? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=9141.msg107829#msg107829
« Reply #14 on: July 04, 2010, 08:23:46 pm »
Vulture is not probably worth upgrading
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Selenbrant

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Re: Which Cards are not worth upgrading? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=9141.msg107831#msg107831
« Reply #15 on: July 04, 2010, 08:28:20 pm »
I saw the thread on which cards to upgrade, and it got me thinking in reverse... as one who was pleasantly suprised to win a relic, and not knowing what to do with it, I upgraded it of course.  Doh.

1.  Relic - pointless upgraded
2.  Sundial -  a moot point, but it is used unupgraded the vast majority of the time.

What next?  Giant frogs/Jade staffs are often unupgraded for the adreneline rush.  For nymphs I note it is advised to keep unupgraded for tournies.  I understand there are benefits to keeping certain dragons unupgraded?  Any others...
Dont understand why you upgraded a Relic, although you can see the upgraded version on the top before upgrading.

Artois

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Re: Which Cards are not worth upgrading? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=9141.msg107834#msg107834
« Reply #16 on: July 04, 2010, 08:30:45 pm »
I saw the thread on which cards to upgrade, and it got me thinking in reverse... as one who was pleasantly suprised to win a relic, and not knowing what to do with it, I upgraded it of course.  Doh.

1.  Relic - pointless upgraded
2.  Sundial -  a moot point, but it is used unupgraded the vast majority of the time.

What next?  Giant frogs/Jade staffs are often unupgraded for the adreneline rush.  For nymphs I note it is advised to keep unupgraded for tournies.  I understand there are benefits to keeping certain dragons unupgraded?  Any others...
I disagree on the frog.  Giant frog is tied with graboid for the most cost effective creature in the game at 5 damage for 2 cost.  I also prefer the upped frog in adrenaline life rushes as you will ultimately not have all the frogs adrenalined and 5>>3 when looking at shields.  Ive done calculations, and the 11-12 damage difference between upped and unupped frogs doesn't have an appreciable effect on deck speed or effectiveness.   Upped frogs and MUCH better in my opinion.
Thats worth knowing!!

Selenbrant

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Re: Which Cards are not worth upgrading? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=9141.msg107849#msg107849
« Reply #17 on: July 04, 2010, 08:47:43 pm »
...and 5>>3 when looking at shields....
With an 1 damage blocking shield they are both equally strong with 2 damage blocking shield Giant Frog will do 1 damage more, but without shields Horned will do 1 damage more. So I would say its balanced(if adrenalined). Yeah with 3+ damage blocking shields Horned Frog will not do any damage at all, but even Giant Frog will only do 3 damage and you will probably lose anyway.
But you are right you will not have all frogs adrenalined.

Offline teffy

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Re: Which Cards are not worth upgrading? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=9141.msg107856#msg107856
« Reply #18 on: July 04, 2010, 08:51:18 pm »
Frogs belong to the cards which are often upgraded, I think it doesn´t belong to this list of cards which are not worth upgrading.

I forgot some useless upgrades.

Skeleton
Nobody plays this card.

Skull Shield
Only useful in a deck with malignant cells.

Antlion
I can´t remember that i ´ve seen this in a player´s deck. Graboid is better.

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Re: Which Cards are not worth upgrading? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=9141.msg107861#msg107861
« Reply #19 on: July 04, 2010, 08:58:51 pm »
There isn't a card in this game that is completely without reason to upgrade.

Relic - moot since the unupped is also worthless.
Boneyard - unupped for rainbows, but in a mono-death, the swarm is doubled in attack.  That's significant.
Stone Skin - halved cost.  Yes, it's negligible, but there are games where a single quantum or health point decides.
Luciferin - allows import to non-light decks for a light splash.
Vulture - decks based around this card often take a while to stack the damage high.  That's 1 more damage for every turn you have the Vulture out, which is far from insignificant.  Say it lasts for 8 turns and one creature is killed per turn.  That's 0+1...7=28 damage unupped, 1+2...8=36 damage upped.

Quote
Giant frog is tied with graboid for the most cost effective creature in the game at 5 damage for 2 cost.
Graboid costs 4, but yeah.

Every card is worth upgrading except the Relic, though many are smaller upgrades and should be done last.  Here's a non-comprehensive list of cards which are worth keeping copies of both upped and not:

Guardian Angel | Archangel
Druidic Staff | Jade Staff
Firefly | Elite Firefly
Firefly Queen | Elite Queen
Flying Weapon | Animate Weapon (unupped allows you to know which quantum you're spending, potentially useful for rainbows)
Rage Potion | Rage Elixir
Boneyard | Graveyard
Purify | Purify (Allows import, but once again it can be nice to know what you'll spend)
Toadfish | Puffer Fish
Chaos Seed | Chaos Power
Dissipation Shield | Dissipation Field
Fallen Elf | Fallen Druid
Mutation | Improved Mutation
Nova | Supernova

The following creatures begin under 6 health and arrive at 6 health when upped, making them vulnerable to Gravity Shield:

Graviton Fire Eater | Graviton Firemaster
Black Dragon | Obsidian Dragon
Blue Crawler | Abyss Crawler
Purple Dragon | Amethyst Dragon

Quote
With an 1 damage blocking shield they are both equally strong with 2 damage blocking shield Giant Frog will do 1 damage more, but without shields Horned will do 1 damage more. So I would say its balanced(if adrenalined). Yeah with 3+ damage blocking shields Horned Frog will not do any damage at all, but even Giant Frog will only do 3 damage and you will probably lose anyway.
But you are right you will not have all frogs adrenalined.
With a one-damage shield, Horned does 2 while Giant does 4.  With a two-shield, Horned does 1 while Giant does 3.  Diamond Shield will reduce Giant Frog to TWO damage.

Re: Which Cards are not worth upgrading? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=9141.msg107866#msg107866
« Reply #20 on: July 04, 2010, 09:03:16 pm »
Quote
Skull Shield
Only useful in a deck with malignant cells.
Not true, one damage ignored is one damage ignored.  Per creature.  Play this against a life rush and it's far better than Bone Wall, dropping enemy damage by 25% (assuming all Cockatrices) permanently.  I can see this card in a vulture-based slow death deck.

Quote
Antlion
I can´t remember that i ´ve seen this in a player´s deck. Graboid is better.
But it requires time.  Antlion is mono-earth and very cost-effective.  I'd use it in a utility/stall earth deck.

Malduk

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Re: Which Cards are not worth upgrading? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=9141.msg107878#msg107878
« Reply #21 on: July 04, 2010, 09:22:52 pm »
Boneyard - unupped for rainbows, but in a mono-death, the swarm is doubled in attack.  That's significant.
Boneyard is used for making a fodder for whatever (in death decks, to feed vultures/bonewall, or alternatively for mutations etc). Using boneyard as a source of damage is a fail more often than not. It is probably THE most useless upgrade from practical point of view. Sure you can theory craft about it and say that 2 dmg is double dmg, but in reality, if you dont need fodder, you dont need boneyard. If you need fodder, its better to get it cheaply.

Re: Which Cards are not worth upgrading? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=9141.msg107887#msg107887
« Reply #22 on: July 04, 2010, 09:27:08 pm »
If it's alone, yes.  If not, a lot of the time it will grow before it's struck and survive, since death runs a lot of 1|1 creatures and Vulture often isn't the first one out.  More than one vulture and only one will die.

Quote
Boneyard is used for making a fodder for whatever (in death decks, to feed vultures/bonewall, or alternatively for mutations etc). Using boneyard as a source of damage is a fail more often than not. It is probably THE most useless upgrade from practical point of view. Sure you can theory craft about it and say that 2 dmg is double dmg, but in reality, if you dont need fodder, you dont need boneyard. If you need fodder, its better to get it cheaply.
Boneyard makes the skellies, though, it doesn't kill them itself.  Often you're relying on your opponent to kill your creatures for you, and until he does every skeleton gains one extra damage.  You might as well say Firefly Queen upgrade would be useless without the switch to Incandescence - it's only a 1 damage upgrade on creatures that are often used as "fodder."  Stick a few Boneyards on the table and every time your opponent kills a Virus he's got a handful of 2|2 skeletons to handle.  It makes a difference.

Selenbrant

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Re: Which Cards are not worth upgrading? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=9141.msg107898#msg107898
« Reply #23 on: July 04, 2010, 09:33:11 pm »
Quote
With an 1 damage blocking shield they are both equally strong with 2 damage blocking shield Giant Frog will do 1 damage more, but without shields Horned will do 1 damage more. So I would say its balanced(if adrenalined). Yeah with 3+ damage blocking shields Horned Frog will not do any damage at all, but even Giant Frog will only do 3 damage and you will probably lose anyway.
But you are right you will not have all frogs adrenalined.
With a one-damage shield, Horned does 2 while Giant does 4.  With a two-shield, Horned does 1 while Giant does 3.  Diamond Shield will reduce Giant Frog to TWO damage.

 

blarg: