What the game mechanics should be

[jmizzle7]

The stack is actually a microcosm of the turn-based structure. Every time you activate an ability or play a spell, you pass priority to your opponent to give them an opportunity to play something in response. You each take turns during this process until both pass with no action. After this, the stack resolves in LIFO order.

[Menthollove]

All strategy games are either real-time or turn based.

Elements and MtG are both clearly turn based. This "real-time" that MtG has is not really real time.

Real time = see things being played as they're happening, not queued up and then done when the player is finished with their turn.

That is not the definition of "real time". Whether you see what is happening or not does not change the fact that you have to wait for your turn.

Better definition for "real time" would be that both players play at the same time and you wouldn't have to wait for their turn at all.

This isn't true at all.  There are all sorts of in-betweens.  MtG for example, is pretty in between.

[Menthollove]

All strategy games are either real-time or turn based.

Elements and MtG are both clearly turn based. This "real-time" that MtG has is not really real time.

Real time = see things being played as they're happening, not queued up and then done when the player is finished with their turn.

That is not the definition of "real time". Whether you see what is happening or not does not change the fact that you have to wait for your turn.

Better definition for "real time" would be that both players play at the same time and you wouldn't have to wait for their turn at all.

This isn't true at all.  There are all sorts of in-betweens.  MtG for example, is pretty in between.

There are no "in-betweens" with real time. It either is, or it isn't. MtG isn't because there are turns. The fact that you can play some cards during your opponents turn doesn't change the fact that there are turns.

Again, not true.  Though I've learned my lesson trying to argue logic with you, so I'll back on out of this thread if nothing constructional is being done.

[Scaredgirl]

All strategy games are either real-time or turn based.

Elements and MtG are both clearly turn based. This "real-time" that MtG has is not really real time.

Real time = see things being played as they're happening, not queued up and then done when the player is finished with their turn.

That is not the definition of "real time". Whether you see what is happening or not does not change the fact that you have to wait for your turn.

Better definition for "real time" would be that both players play at the same time and you wouldn't have to wait for their turn at all.

[Scaredgirl]

Lol @ MtG having "real time" gameplay.

I did a Youtube search on "real time ccg" and this is what I found:

This is closest to "real time" CCG I've ever seen. If you look at the end of the video where they are playing the game, you will see what REAL real time gameplay means in a CCG.

The game is a mixture of both turn-based and real time gameplay. Real time is when they go "Ready, aim, ..fire!" and both players start drawing cards simultaneously as fast as they can and do something with them on the battlefield (I have no idea what). They keep on drawing and playing the cards until one of them shouts "pause!" and then the game stops and something happens (I have no idea what).

That is real time gameplay.
- Simultaneous play
- No turns
- No downtime

MtG is turn based (with downtime) like jmizzle7 and I already explained.

Back on topic.. I'll quote myself:

Half the voters think that Rain of Fire should hit creatures that are IMMATERIAL. Did any of you who voted this way, actually think about the situation at all? We have immaterial creatures that you cannot touch with anything, but when you do a spell that doesn't target the creature specifically, then the creature somehow becomes material and you can hit him?

I have 2 questions for everyone who voted that Firestorm should hit immaterial creatures.

1. What was your reason for voting like this?
2. Can you hit a ghost in the face with a hammer?

[Scaredgirl]

Yup, looks like it. I'm talking about Magic Online (MTG Online) and she's talking about MTG gameplay (MTG CCG) but came into the "real time" topic with that.

I'm talking about this:

SG, have you never played MTG before? MTG is real time.

MtG is not real time. Not the CCG version or the online CCG version. They are both clearly turn based.

You seem to have your own definition of "real time gameplay", something like "It's real time when you see things happening in real time". When you start coming up with your definitions for words, it's really difficult discuss about these things.

I explained in my last post what "real time" gameplay is, and I even posted a video showing it. I really don't know what more I can do.

Btw a new turn based MtG game is coming out soon.

&feature=player_embedded

http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/arcana/311 (http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazine/Article.aspx?x=mtg/daily/arcana/311)

It's based on MtG but there's very little information on what kind of gameplay it has.

[Scaredgirl]

All strategy games are either real-time or turn based.

Elements and MtG are both clearly turn based. This "real-time" that MtG has is not really real time.

Real time = see things being played as they're happening, not queued up and then done when the player is finished with their turn.

That is not the definition of "real time". Whether you see what is happening or not does not change the fact that you have to wait for your turn.

Better definition for "real time" would be that both players play at the same time and you wouldn't have to wait for their turn at all.

This isn't true at all.  There are all sorts of in-betweens.  MtG for example, is pretty in between.

There are no "in-betweens" with real time. It either is, or it isn't. MtG isn't because there are turns. The fact that you can play some cards during your opponents turn doesn't change the fact that there are turns.

[Scaredgirl]

Again, not true.  Though I've learned my lesson trying to argue logic with you, so I'll back on out of this thread if nothing constructional is being done.

"not true" is not a very good argument. I should you should learn to admit when you are wrong. If someone says to me with a straight face that MtG is not turn based, I will assume that person is dumb as a post. And because it's it's turn based, it's not real time. Period.

But like jmizzle7 said, this argument is irrelevant. Problem with internet is always that nobody wants to admit they are wrong so these kinds of ridiculous arguments come up. Next lets argue whether the Earth is flat or not, yay!


As for this topic, it's a perfect example how Democracy fails. Some people just lack the brain power or common sense to make any kind of decisions, therefore should not get a vote.

Half the voters think that Rain of Fire should hit creatures that are IMMATERIAL. Did any of you who voted this way, actually think about the situation at all? We have immaterial creatures that you cannot touch with anything, but when you do a spell that doesn't target the creature specifically, then the creature somehow becomes material and you can hit him?

You have to admit, that's pretty dumb.

[Tomsense76]

- Reflective shields, Light or Life, should reflect any instant card that directly effects the player. This includes Heal, Miracle, Poison, etc. Bonds would not count since they are a permanent and the heal is part of an ability.

- The skills gained from Improvement is tricky. You can gain some skills like steal or destroy, which unto themselves are overly powerful for a creature, but not snipe or immortality? My biggest complaint is that some times the "improvements" aren't improvements at all, for skill or for stats.

- Bonewalls should stack. Whether from playing another bonewall, or from stealing them.

- Immortals are immortal.

- Canceling a creature skills should give the quantum back. Canceling the play of cards gives the quantum back, I don't think this should be any different...

[bobcamel]

And, if I said Multiplayer HOM&M 5, would that be real-time, with the Ghost Mode?

[bobcamel]

And, in fighting games, when moves have some sort of priority that is regardless of the time when the hitbox comes out, does that make them turn-based? And, why are we talking about turn-baseness when we have Bonewall Stackings, Spell Reflection and such crap to talk about?

[bobcamel]

Especially that... well, they are kind of sucky anyway. Immortal costs like 6 for just 4 attack, Phase Dragons cost like 12-13 and a Gravity Shield stops them right. Compare to, say, a Phase Recluse. Can be targeted, but 7 attack for 4 quanta. Way different proportion. Lava Golem... 5 attack for 4, and can grow.