What the game mechanics should be

[chriskang]

There's a communication problem here. You're talking about something completely different than I am since you jumped into our talk about "real time" PvP mode for Elements (which doesn't exist but Zanzarino claims to be "real time).

So basically, SG and you have an argument since post #38 on a subject where you both agree?

[cipher_nemo]

That was back in July. I hope we get the real-time PvP in the update before the end of this year!

You must be mistaken mate. The PvP system that Zanzarino describes is nothing else than what we have now.
It went live on July 21st. See this:
http://board.flashkit.com/board/showthread.php?p=4189241#post4189241

AFAIK, no change is planned for the PvP system right now.

He mentioned "real time PvP" system. It's not really "real time" since the turns get sent when they're done. Unless he misspoke when using the term "real time"?

[cipher_nemo]

He mentioned "real time PvP" system. It's not really "real time" since the turns get sent when they're done. Unless he misspoke when using the term "real time"?

You should really read the post that I pointed in my last reply...

I did. Still isn't "real time".

[cipher_nemo]

So basically, SG and you have an argument since post #38 on a subject where you both agree?

Yup, looks like it. I'm talking about Magic Online (MTG Online) and she's talking about MTG gameplay (MTG CCG) but came into the "real time" topic with that.

[cipher_nemo]

What do you expect "realtime" to mean in a game like this?  It's as real-time as a tabletop game of Magic:the Gathering.  What more do you want?

No, it's not. Don't you know how PvP works in Elements?

Something more like Magic Online has would be "real time". When someone plays a card, you should see it being played. Instead in PvP with Elements, a player does everything for their own turn, then ends the round. The server queues all of this up and then spits it out in one shot.

Real time = see things being played as they're happening, not queued up and then done when the player is finished with their turn.

Have you ever made two or more accounts and pitted one against the other in separate browser windows? You'd quickly notice what I'm talking about.

[cipher_nemo]

The stack is actually a microcosm of the turn-based structure. Every time you activate an ability or play a spell, you pass priority to your opponent to give them an opportunity to play something in response. You each take turns during this process until both pass with no action. After this, the stack resolves in LIFO order.

Yup, and for an online version of MTG, that requires "real time" gameplay, while Elements doesn't.

Don't get me wrong, Elements doesn't need "real time" gameplay for players to enjoy PvP. It's just a luxury. But make no mistake, Elements does NOT have "real time" gameplay for PvP.

As chriskang said before, it's just what the developer called it (ie: they put their own definition for "real time" with Elements). But that's a huge stretch of the real definition.

[cipher_nemo]

But like jmizzle7 said, this argument is irrelevant. Problem with internet is always that nobody wants to admit they are wrong so these kinds of ridiculous arguments come up. Next lets argue whether the Earth is flat or not, yay!

SG, have you never played MTG before? MTG is real time. There is a thing called a "stack" when players play spells (cards). This is why counter spells work in MTG. If someone plays a spell, their opponent has the opportunity to play a spell on top of that one as an "interrupt" (old-school MTG term). To do so, the spell has to be classified as an "instant". There is no such thing in Elements.

Elements PvP is currently not "real time", at least for the way that it was implemented. It could be "real time" in that whenever your opponent plays a card, you see it played on your screen. Instead it's just by turn. MTG is "real time" in that cards are NOT played only by turn no matter how much you try to argue about it. Can't debate facts. Cards can be played at any time if they are "instant", aka "interrupts".

Menthollove had that part correct.

[cipher_nemo]

Lol @ MtG having "real time" gameplay.

I did a Youtube search on "real time ccg" and this is what I found:

This is closest to "real time" CCG I've ever seen. If you look at the end of the video where they are playing the game, you will see what REAL real time gameplay means in a CCG.

The game is a mixture of both turn-based and real time gameplay. Real time is when they go "Ready, aim, ..fire!" and both players start drawing cards simultaneously as fast as they can and do something with them on the battlefield (I have no idea what). They keep on drawing and playing the cards until one of them shouts "pause!" and then the game stops and something happens (I have no idea what).

That is real time gameplay.
- Simultaneous play
- No turns
- No downtime

MtG is turn based (with downtime) like jmizzle7 and I already explained.

There's a communication problem here. You're talking about something completely different than I am since you jumped into our talk about "real time" PvP mode for Elements (which doesn't exist but Zanzarino claims to be "real time). I was comparing Elements to Magic Online which has a "real time" client in that you see exactly when an opponent plays a card. This is compared to Elements which has queued turns, so that you don't see what the other person has done until their turn is over, then the Elements client spits out their moves all at once.

I'm not talking about MTG being a "real time" CCG in terms of how gameplay unfolds. I'm talking about Magic Online being a "real time" client in any PvP.

Something more like Magic Online has would be "real time". When someone plays a card, you should see it being played. Instead in PvP with Elements, a player does everything for their own turn, then ends the round. The server queues all of this up and then spits it out in one shot.

Real time = see things being played as they're happening, not queued up and then done when the player is finished with their turn.

Have you ever made two or more accounts and pitted one against the other in separate browser windows? You'd quickly notice what I'm talking about.

Elements PvP is currently not "real time", at least for the way that it was implemented. It could be "real time" in that whenever your opponent plays a card, you see it played on your screen. Instead it's just by turn. MTG is "real time" in that cards are NOT played only by turn no matter how much you try to argue about it. Can't debate facts. Cards can be played at any time if they are "instant", aka "interrupts".

[Daxx]

MtG is in fact turn-based. This is perfectly illustrated by the concept of passing priority in Magic, and the use of the stack. Even though you can act within the other player's "turn", there is a granularity there at the passing priority level. The entire game revolves around one player making a decision and then the other in strictly defined procession. This is different to real-time gameplay which is traditionally defined in terms of not having to wait for your turn.

What cipher_nemo seems to want is a system where moves are instantly communicated and appear on your screen when they are made, as opposed to being saved up until the end of the turn. This is more "real time" than the current system, but in a different sense to the game mechanic.

What Zanzarino means by "real time" should probably be taken in context as being opposed to the t50 system, which he considers to be PVP. What he presumably means is players playing against each other directly, not by proxy through an AI.

[Essence]

What do you expect "realtime" to mean in a game like this?  It's as real-time as a tabletop game of Magic:the Gathering.  What more do you want?

[jmizzle7]

MtG is clearly turn-based, but because there are spells and abilities that can be played by both players during an opponent's turn, I would say it's a very structured turn-based game based on timing rules. As for "real time", whatever. None of that really makes much sense and is irrelevant.

[jmizzle7]

That Call of Duty game looks intense. I like it!