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Kael Hate

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Re: What is the most useless rare weapon (when upped)? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=3153.msg27653#msg27653
« Reply #36 on: February 19, 2010, 09:24:23 pm »
I would have thought Discord or Eternity too. Both of them do little more to the game once upped. Appears Stilleto is the hated card tho.

Offline Baily18

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Re: What is the most useless rare weapon (when upped)? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=3153.msg27654#msg27654
« Reply #37 on: February 19, 2010, 09:24:40 pm »
0.0 What are you people, crazy? Eternity and Pulvy are the best xD

Kael Hate

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Re: What is the most useless rare weapon (when upped)? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=3153.msg27658#msg27658
« Reply #38 on: February 19, 2010, 09:34:29 pm »
0.0 What are you people, crazy? Eternity and Pulvy are the best xD
Guess I made a bad inference to the question asked. Eternity is the Best weapon regardless because it is the only card to supply a mechanic that is required at this time and that is anti decking.

Pulveriser is the best offensive weapon because it is a reusable tool to control part of the environment that opponents need to survive.

I'd say Discord is somewhat the worse because it generally does nothing except damage and can actually help and opponent by generating a spread of quantums to power mutants or sidecards in Rainbow. Stilleto at least returns life in a mono type that takes time and has steal to deal with shields.

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Re: What is the most useless rare weapon (when upped)? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=3153.msg27660#msg27660
« Reply #39 on: February 19, 2010, 09:42:17 pm »
0.0 What are you people, crazy? Eternity and Pulvy are the best xD
Guess I made a bad inference to the question asked. Eternity is the Best weapon regardless because it is the only card to supply a mechanic that is required at this time and that is anti decking.

Pulveriser is the best offensive weapon because it is a reusable tool to control part of the environment that opponents need to survive.

I'd say Discord is somewhat the worse because it generally does nothing except damage and can actually help and opponent by generating a spread of quantums to power mutants or sidecards in Rainbow. Stilleto at least returns life in a mono type that takes time and has steal to deal with shields.
Discord can totally destroy small aggro, mono/duo speed decks and combined with Black Hole it's just deadly.
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Kael Hate

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Re: What is the most useless rare weapon (when upped)? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=3153.msg27665#msg27665
« Reply #40 on: February 19, 2010, 10:00:32 pm »
Discord can totally destroy small aggro, mono/duo speed decks and combined with Black Hole it's just deadly.
Never affected my aggro decks or mono decks because I generate far more quantums than Discord can move. I do agree with the Black Hole tho. Discord might see some light when the Gravity Nymph gets out into the community.

I have designed a new Algorithim for Discord to use and will publish it in Card ideas in the future. It will enable Discord to actually ruin you quanta balance and give the Entropy player some time. Think about an effect that moves all your opponents quanta together if they're playing Rainbow. Or an ability that can affect the opponent even if they have over production of qanta. The limitation of Discord only affecting a limited amount of quantums is its downfall.

assassim

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Re: What is the most useless rare weapon (when upped)? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=3153.msg27681#msg27681
« Reply #41 on: February 19, 2010, 10:50:01 pm »
@kael discord is useful against all decks except rainbow (and at times it may mess rainbow slightly up as well).

Kael Hate

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Re: What is the most useless rare weapon (when upped)? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=3153.msg27687#msg27687
« Reply #42 on: February 19, 2010, 11:05:41 pm »
@kael discord is useful against all decks except rainbow (and at times it may mess rainbow slightly up as well).
I guess thats a matter of Opinion or Personal Experience. In theory it should work against everyone. For my experience tho the opponent could have had a longsword for the damage it did to me had little or no effect.

TheMadEvil

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Re: What is the most useless rare weapon (when upped)? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=3153.msg28214#msg28214
« Reply #43 on: February 22, 2010, 12:14:01 am »


This picture shows the Dagger being used to get 103 healing per turn for free.  You find me a picture of a different weapon being used in a more useful way, and I will admit defeat, change my vote to the stiletto, and never bring up the argument again.

[Edit - i'm an idiot, but still have a point about this pic:]
In the instance you gave, you have a 1xx/1xx flying vampiric dagger...wow... at that point, what does it matter?
IMHO I'd rather see a screenshot of 4 or 5 10/10 flying vampiric daggers, or something like that. Why? Because if this were against anyone but Divine Glory, the game would be over. At that point, it doesn't matter it they are daggers or Golden Dragons. They don't heal you if they kill the opponent with damage, which negates EM, and in the 5-7 turns it takes to get them that strong is generally long enough for any other upgraded deck to win.
So yes, while you are gaining 100+ life per game, you: 1)have no divine shards out, so any life >100 is useless; 2)are playing against an opponent with NO creature control; and most important 3)are playing against, what, 12 miracles, right? How many times would these happen in a game?
Play this against anyone with creature control = most likely death. No Quint, so if your nymphs die, your daggers will too.
Also, you are playing a 4 CARD COMBO...dagger + flying weapon + blessing + rage...how often does this work for you?
Let's look at another card: Pulverizer - most likely combo: 2 card w/Protect Artifact, just the same as all the other weapons.

What I am saying is this: While all the weapons are at least OK, some are better than others in certain situations.
For example, who really wants to make a flying pulverizer? most of the time it's not that great of an idea, since it's very quanta-intensive to use as a trident, so you quickly run out of non-pillar permanents, or you run out of quanta trying to destroy pillars.
Druidic Staff and Vampiric Dagger are both better when used with flying weapon, since they have abilities that stack and don't require quanta.
Morning Glory and Titan are strong, and useful situationally...one is great against steal/destroy, the other is great against shields.

Basically, each weapon is better/worse for a person based on their play style. I myself have never even used a flying weapon, and chose Trident as my first weapon...great when used in Rainbow, but it's quanta-intensive and not as good as in other games (MTG allows only one land played per turn and no mana hoarding, which makes denial all the easier. I find it's much harder in Elements since your quanta stays until you use it, and using trident/black hole is a 3 color intensive combo, very hard to make viable.)

anyways:
i abstain from voting, but this thread also brings up some points...obviously decking out is a problem, which is why Eternity is so important to so many people. Since FGs have 200 life and access to life gain/damage prevention, it is very possible with a decent and/or unupgraded deck to lose to deckout.

Also, look at WHY each card is so important to so many decks

And lastly, I'm surprised Arsenic was not chosen. While it is decent, I don't know that it is better than Pulverizer, Morning Glory, Druidic Staff and Eternity...

Just some thoughts
-Mad

TheMadEvil

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Re: What is the most useless rare weapon (when upped)? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=3153.msg28215#msg28215
« Reply #44 on: February 22, 2010, 12:17:22 am »
Also, off topic, @kael - is Black Scorpion a new clan, or just a forum thing? Been out of l5r a while but i still love them scorpion. would love to hear of a shadow-type scorpion, like the old shadowlands scorpion decks

Offline Baily18

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Re: What is the most useless rare weapon (when upped)? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=3153.msg28216#msg28216
« Reply #45 on: February 22, 2010, 12:17:59 am »
he doesnt need air quantum to fly the vamp dagger because he used an upped flying weapon which uses 1 random quantum and not an air one

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Re: What is the most useless rare weapon (when upped)? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=3153.msg28232#msg28232
« Reply #46 on: February 22, 2010, 01:22:58 am »


This picture shows the Dagger being used to get 103 healing per turn for free.  You find me a picture of a different weapon being used in a more useful way, and I will admit defeat, change my vote to the stiletto, and never bring up the argument again.

[Edit - i'm an idiot, but still have a point about this pic:]
In the instance you gave, you have a 1xx/1xx flying vampiric dagger...wow... at that point, what does it matter?
IMHO I'd rather see a screenshot of 4 or 5 10/10 flying vampiric daggers, or something like that. Why? Because if this were against anyone but Divine Glory, the game would be over. At that point, it doesn't matter it they are daggers or Golden Dragons. They don't heal you if they kill the opponent with damage, which negates EM, and in the 5-7 turns it takes to get them that strong is generally long enough for any other upgraded deck to win.
So yes, while you are gaining 100+ life per game, you: 1)have no divine shards out, so any life >100 is useless; 2)are playing against an opponent with NO creature control; and most important 3)are playing against, what, 12 miracles, right? How many times would these happen in a game?
Play this against anyone with creature control = most likely death. No Quint, so if your nymphs die, your daggers will too.
Also, you are playing a 4 CARD COMBO...dagger + flying weapon + blessing + rage...how often does this work for you?
Let's look at another card: Pulverizer - most likely combo: 2 card w/Protect Artifact, just the same as all the other weapons.

What I am saying is this: While all the weapons are at least OK, some are better than others in certain situations.
For example, who really wants to make a flying pulverizer? most of the time it's not that great of an idea, since it's very quanta-intensive to use as a trident, so you quickly run out of non-pillar permanents, or you run out of quanta trying to destroy pillars.
Druidic Staff and Vampiric Dagger are both better when used with flying weapon, since they have abilities that stack and don't require quanta.
Morning Glory and Titan are strong, and useful situationally...one is great against steal/destroy, the other is great against shields.

Basically, each weapon is better/worse for a person based on their play style. I myself have never even used a flying weapon, and chose Trident as my first weapon...great when used in Rainbow, but it's quanta-intensive and not as good as in other games (MTG allows only one land played per turn and no mana hoarding, which makes denial all the easier. I find it's much harder in Elements since your quanta stays until you use it, and using trident/black hole is a 3 color intensive combo, very hard to make viable.)

anyways:
i abstain from voting, but this thread also brings up some points...obviously decking out is a problem, which is why Eternity is so important to so many people. Since FGs have 200 life and access to life gain/damage prevention, it is very possible with a decent and/or unupgraded deck to lose to deckout.

Also, look at WHY each card is so important to so many decks

And lastly, I'm surprised Arsenic was not chosen. While it is decent, I don't know that it is better than Pulverizer, Morning Glory, Druidic Staff and Eternity...

Just some thoughts
-Mad
I was showing an extreme example of it's use.

Wisemage

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Re: What is the most useless rare weapon (when upped)? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=3153.msg28239#msg28239
« Reply #47 on: February 22, 2010, 01:46:30 am »
Thats not an extreme explain of Vampire Stilletos uses though,  that could be done with ANYTHING, it in no way shows the usefulness of Vamp. Stil.  just ebcause you were able to get it up to 103 attack doesnt make it any better, it just makes that a good strategy. 

 

blarg: