What do you think of the Elements Council?

[Dragoon1140]

Unless a council member votes against a person because they beat them in PvP one time or something equally ridiculous...

This won't happen.

...candidates should be able to respect the council's opinions and if they can't, then that displays that they were not the best suited for the position in question.

I completely agree with you, but it is much easier, at least for the time being, ignoring the drama all-together while we discuss other matters.

[willng3]

Unless a council member votes against a person because they beat them in PvP one time or something equally ridiculous...

This won't happen.

...candidates should be able to respect the council's opinions and if they can't, then that displays that they were not the best suited for the position in question.

I completely agree with you, but it is much easier, at least for the time being, ignoring the drama all-together while we discuss other matters.

I know it won't happen, hence me saying it was ridiculous to even conceive it.  I suppose if it's the easiest and most efficient thing to do then that's what is best.  I do see your point on time being better spent addressing issues, however.

[Kuross]

As for posting what the council has done/is doing, a simple agenda of the upcoming meeting along with a copy of condensed minutes of the previous would be easy to do and go a long way to showing the community whatcha been up to. I "think" there is still a council thread floating around here. Just post on that with the agenda/minutes. Nothing extravagant, just enough to let the community know what's going on and a chance to maybe get something on the agenda they may feel needs dicussing.

The Council is made up of people from all over the world, so it would be very difficult to get everyone online at once for any period of time.  Instead, we post on threads discussing stuff.  We still take things seriously, for the most part, but it isn't as strict as a government council meeting.

Actually, making an agenda for this particular situation is very simple.

Just set a day of the week (Sunday perhaps) as a benchmark and develop an agenda from day 1 to day 7 of that week. Then post minutes of the previous weeks accomplishments/work within that week's timeframe. Post both the agenda and the minutes in a Council thread.

[pepokish]

I think what I'd like to see at this point is more community involvement.  How does the council decide what needs to be done?  Are there any future plans to take votes from the community on how the community itself could be improved?  I think it would be nice if every once in a while, the community could pose issues and ideas to the council, perhaps take a vote on which issues are most important to us as a whole, and then let the council decide how to deal with that particular issue or idea.

[Dragoon1140]

I think what I'd like to see at this point is more community involvement.  How does the council decide what needs to be done?  Are there any future plans to take votes from the community on how the community itself could be improved?  I think it would be nice if every once in a while, the community could pose issues and ideas to the council, perhaps take a vote on which issues are most important to us as a whole, and then let the council decide how to deal with that particular issue or idea.

This thread is a great place to give suggestions.  Most concerns here I share with the Council, and suggestions are no different.  Polls wouldn't be such a bad idea, but this thread is already hidden as is.  More threads would confuse the potatoes of the community even more.

[Kuross]

I think what I'd like to see at this point is more community involvement.  How does the council decide what needs to be done?  Are there any future plans to take votes from the community on how the community itself could be improved?  I think it would be nice if every once in a while, the community could pose issues and ideas to the council, perhaps take a vote on which issues are most important to us as a whole, and then let the council decide how to deal with that particular issue or idea.

This is exactly why I was looking for the agenda/minutes suggestion to get some traction. Transparency is a good thing. Getting the community involved is the only suggestion I can think of to make the council better (not that it isn't good   ) and having community input on specific issues/ideas and getting them on the agenda, then posting the minutes with the results does two things- let the community know that the council has heard the community's concern/voice about X issue/idea and tell the community what the council has done about X idea/issue.

[Jangoo]

I totally agree with anyone expressing concerns about the "concealed ways of the council".

While that "drama"-argument does make some sense, going about it by ignoring drama may yet be the source of
more drama.
E.g., howevermuch plastique may have put the fact that the council has voted 3 council members to the position
of competition organizer as a funny joke, that joke holds a sad truth.
Do you really expect the rejected applicants to take note of this through a single line in the OP of this thread and
not whine about it just because "the council has decided so"?
Chances are they wonder about it, a lot, or even get a little pissed off for being shut out without public reasoning.
If you consider drama to be a problem, then consider drama to start either way ... In fact, it has already started,
in the form of mild criticism and funny jokes to illustrate a point still but ... you get me here, right?

In my experience, one shouldn't run for an office/elected position without know full well there's no guarantee of winning it. Someone has to lose for another to win.

Also, one shouldn't run for office, win and then be immunized by the faceless power of an institution:
"Don't hold me responsible, `the board´ has decided to drop the bomb, not me."

In my opinion a democratically elected council should go about its affairs in a truly democratic and public way:
Normally, elected officials have to stand by every little action they take because they owe it to their voters.
While this may seem a little uncomfortable at first, democracy has found ways to turn it into a virtue.
It's for a reason quite a few people here are wondering how the hell they are going to decide whom to re-elect
next time.

All that having said, I think the council is generally an awesome idea.
Thanks for doing this in your free time! Keep up the good work guys!




PS:

just a question:
are you guys allowed to say "i move blah blah blah"
"i second that movement"
then vote on it and it happens? or is it just "heres what your going to vote on, now vote" and thats it?

I am limited on how much detail I can say about this [...]

Now this is a prime example of what nobody wants to hear and see from the council, especially not
when it's about something as "important" as this. 

[Scaredgirl]

E.g., howevermuch plastique may have put the fact that the council has voted 3 council members to the position
of competition organizer as a funny joke, that joke holds a sad truth.
Do you really expect the rejected applicants to take note of this through a single line in the OP of this thread and
not whine about it just because "the council has decided so"?

The job of the Council is to pick the best people for the job. I have seen all these applications in question, and I can safely say that the best people were picked. Period. Had there not been a Council, I would have picked these same 3 people for the job, no question about it.

There was actually some concern among the Council about this same thing. I posted on that topic and said the same thing I said just now: you need to pick the best people, even if the best people is you yourself and your closest family. Hiring 2nd best people just to avoid it looking bad, is a dumb and a weak decision.

The Council gives out information on a need-to-know basis. You Jangoo do not need to know the recruitment policies of the Council, nor does the Council have to explain these decisions to you. Your role in all of this is limited to that one vote you have during the Council election.

We have talked about a system that would add more transparency to Council decisions (this has been the plan from day one), but it hasn't been implemented yet. Recruitment decisions however are, and will stay, hidden because there's no need to make them public, as it would only lead to drama.

[Korugar]

The Council gives out information on a need-to-know basis. You Jangoo do not need to know the recruitment policies of the Council, nor does the Council have to explain these decisions to you. Your role in all of this is limited to that one vote you have during the Council election.

Well, that's kind of the point, isn't it? Perhaps it wouldn't affect our playing or forum experience knowing how the council members voted, but what's the point of voting if you know...nothing? Now, I suppose what I'm saying is, if we who are not on the council don't know what the council members are doing, and thus our votes are a shot in the dark, why don't you yourself just appoint them?

[Scaredgirl]

The Council gives out information on a need-to-know basis. You Jangoo do not need to know the recruitment policies of the Council, nor does the Council have to explain these decisions to you. Your role in all of this is limited to that one vote you have during the Council election.

Well, that's kind of the point, isn't it? Perhaps it wouldn't affect our playing or forum experience knowing how the council members voted, but what's the point of voting if you know...nothing? Now, I suppose what I'm saying is, if we who are not on the council don't know what the council members are doing, and thus our votes are a shot in the dark, why don't you yourself just appoint them?

Like I said in that last paragraph, there will be more transparency in a form of the public knowing how each Council Member voted in every single non-recruiting matter. You can use that information when it's time to vote for a new council.

Also candidates are usually people you know from the forums and/or chat, so it wouldn't be a "shot in the dark" even if you knew nothing about what's going on with the Council. A person who seems reasonable on the forums, probably makes reasonable decisions as a Council Member as well.

[Kuross]

I totally understand the need for the hiring process to stay hidden. In my time with organizations that were run by elected members, we were responsible for hiring people to run our day to day operations and the hiring process was seperate from the community that elected us. Disiplenary issues and a select few others were also done behind closed doors for many obvious and legal reasons. But as long as SG assures us that the council is working to bring transparency to the community, I, myself at least, am satisfied. Most of the people on the council are people I voted for in the first place and me being one who taks pride in my ability to vote, place some faith in their abilities. If I didn't there's be little point in voting for them

All things considered, the council was originally created to take a load off of SG. The fact SG shifted some responsibility to the community is a testemant in itself. But please understand, to let us have that responsibility then shield us from it at the same time is a bit for some of us to chew. I know the council is working hard, never let it be said I think otherwise. I just would like to know from time to time what's going on so I can make informed decisions in the future elections and continue to be a small voice looking to be heard so that I, to, may help this gaming community grow.

[$$$man]

Can I please get mod powers in the forum games section Kthnxbai.