Elements the Game Forum - Free Online Fantasy Card Game
Elements the Game => General Discussion => Topic started by: Dragoon1140 on October 08, 2010, 11:45:58 pm
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Hello everyone, I am Dragoon1140 and I have served in the first Council (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,12735.0.html) as third in command and the second Council (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,18002.0.html) as second in command. If you do not know what the Council is, we are part of the governing body of the forum that is responsible for the hiring / firing of staff positions throughout the forum. We are not connected to the game itself, and we are also not responsible for the individual tasks that we hire community members for.
If you are curious about what we have done so far, we have recruited the following to their corresponding positions:
Air General - Pervepic (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=689)
Tournament Organizer - Higurashi/Marisa (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=3702)
League Organizer - Toimu13 (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=5109)
Moderator for GS&F (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/board,8.0.html) - DrunkDestroyer (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=3131)
Troubleshooter - Zeru (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=2454)
Bug Hunter - Gl1tch (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=975)
War Master - Guolin (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=1717); ddevans96 (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=3167)
Competition Organizer - Killsdazombies (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=2151); Dragoon1140 (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=3968); Kuroaitou (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=2751)
Forum Games Organizer - $$$man (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=2489)
Deck Helper - hrmmm; kevkev60614; Kuross
Tournament Organizer - girlsgeneration; Dm1321; TheonlyrealBeef
PVP Organizer - ji412jo; Malduk; kobisjeruk
Overseer - xdude
League Organizer - Memorystick; Thenewguy
Tournament Organizer - BatCountry
How do you think we are doing? Are we doing too much, too little, or are we wasting our time calling each other potatoes? Any position we should talk about hiring a member to watch over? This is your place to speak! We, or at least I, will try to answer most questions unless they're just not answerable.
I do ask that any comments made are constructive and not "why didn't you vote for me?" comments. We have our reasons for voting for each person, and our thoughts are to remain private within the Council, at least for the time being.
EDIT:
Some people have been asking what Council looks at when hiring for a position. Thus, I (and Scaredgirl) responded with this (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,15005.0.html).
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Council has thus far acted swiftly, with elegance and with mostly wise choices.
I would give karma to you 12, but I'll refrain from doing so. It seems a bit over the top.
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or are we wasting our time calling each other potatoes?
Inside joke ftw. :P
Personally, as a Council Member myself, I believe the position isn't technically an independent staff position where you control an entire board section, but it is an essential job that has definately put a sh*tload of pressure off SG's shoulders, allowing her to organize other events such as War.
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hurray for ego boosting!
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Average potatoes.
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I think the council did a fantastic job and keeping stuff in order and choosing more staff members to get this community working even better. I especially like how it easily solved the no-Air-master problem. I hope to see it take more actions in this community.
*glances at one of my titles*
NO DON'T LOOK AT ME LIKE THAT. EGOISM FTW.
P.S. Taking the SAT in about 10 hours. Wish me luck :D
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I think the council has been helpful. You guys definitely hired a lot of people to take care of stuff.
Not that elements is a government, but as a governing body, you need lots of people to enact your legislation so to speak. So it is good you are delegating tasks and creating structure for the community.
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I think the council did a fantastic job and keeping stuff in order and choosing more staff members to get this community working even better. I especially like how it easily solved the no-Air-master problem. I hope to see it take more actions in this community.
*glances at one of my titles*
NO DON'T LOOK AT ME LIKE THAT. EGOISM FTW.
P.S. Taking the SAT in about 10 hours. Wish me luck :D
good luck post how u did in off topic for me
U CAN GET A 2400
Oh and I think the Council is a brilliant idea, and they are doing an amazing job at choosing people. U get an A+!!! for now
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Having served on many councils in the past, I know that a lot of work is done behind the scene, which few can sometimes fully grasp, and thus usually those members can be taken for granted. Working on councils is not all about sitting in a chair and saying "aye" or nay" all the time (but it sure can feel like it at times :P).
The only suggestion I can offer to the council, or admin should they wish to, is make a flow chart for the community to see all the positions and their relevance. How many Tournament organizers are there officially? What does the council do in general/specifically? So on and so forth. A sort of hierarchy for the other community members to view and get a better understanding of all the responsible members in their relation to each other. Example- let's say someone, like a Card Curator, has a dispute with a Element Master over subject "X." Do they go to the council to resolve the issue? Does the council have authority in this matter?
A snapshot of the all the working members of the forums would help many of us who are not too familiar with the heirarchy better understand how it all works.
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The problem with a hierarchy chart (although it would be useful) is that each staff member has a different domain. For example, maybe there was a dispute over a certain rule in a competition between a Card Curator and Competition Organizer - in many cases, the Comp. O will have higher authority, but maybe the rule had to do with art permissions and such.
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The problem with a hierarchy chart (although it would be useful) is that each staff member has a different domain. For example, maybe there was a dispute over a certain rule in a competition between a Card Curator and Competition Organizer - in many cases, the Comp. O will have higher authority, but maybe the rule had to do with art permissions and such.
Righto, so the big hairy question is- where do they go to settle said dispute? Who's in charge of that? SG still? What if a member has an issue with a Comp Organizer? Who do they go to with the issue?
Sorry for all the potential derailment of this topic, I know you guys work hard and it's appreciated, but this does bring up, indirectly, what the council does so people know what it is you guys are doing.
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P.S. Taking the SAT in about 10 hours. Wish me luck :D
If someone else bids on me and it will help get you to bid higher: Best Wishes!
But, if that doesn't help, I hope you do really, truly, horibbly. College = less time for elements. :(
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I think it's a bit early to have an impression (the Council is still pretty new and hasn't been active for a long time). Seems like you guys are doing fine, though.
Does the Council have any plans it will implement soon / ideas it's particularly thinking about? If you can't disclose anything, that's alright.
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Does the Council have any plans it will implement soon / ideas it's particularly thinking about? If you can't disclose anything, that's alright.
So far the Council has only made recruitment decisions that had been piling up on my desk for weeks before the Council was even elected. After this initial phase of taking care of the high priority "old" stuff, the Council will start focusing on new things.
The discussion will be kept private. Votes will be made public.
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A snapshot of the all the working members of the forums would help many of us who are not too familiar with the heirarchy better understand how it all works.
No flowcharts or descriptions... yet.
But here's a snapshot: http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?action=staff
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I think it's a bit misleading to be using a term like "hiring" when you're choosing unpaid volunteers. Maybe even inappropriate, to be honest.
Glad that there are a number of folks eager to help out. A proactive community is a dynamic community, and a dynamic community is usually a fun community!
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As Non-Council members cannot post in the Council subforum, what should we do if we have a suggestion for the Council regarding a new staff position, etc? And if it's a suggestion we'd rather not make public, which of the 12 Council members should we PM?
Good work so far. Thanks!
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As Non-Council members cannot post in the Council subforum, what should we do if we have a suggestion for the Council regarding a new staff position, etc? And if it's a suggestion we'd rather not make public, which of the 12 Council members should we PM?
Any will do. :)
According to the staff list all council members have been active in the last 24 hours, so you don't have to worry about a big delay.
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As Non-Council members cannot post in the Council subforum, what should we do if we have a suggestion for the Council regarding a new staff position, etc? And if it's a suggestion we'd rather not make public, which of the 12 Council members should we PM?
Good work so far. Thanks!
As the Smuggleness says, PM'ing any or all of us is fine.
If you do wish to make your suggestion public, this thread is likely better than any.
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I think you spend just enough time calling each other potatoes. Some more wouldn't hurt, but it's fine as it is.
I also think it's very good that you've enabled a large expansion of staff members, and they're all solid choices. That's about it so far. I expect the council be as productive in the future.
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I think you spend just enough time calling each other potatoes. Some more wouldn't hurt, but it's fine as it is.
I also think it's very good that you've enabled a large expansion of staff members, and they're all solid choices. That's about it so far. I expect the council be as productive in the future.
*looks at Higurashi's title*. lol.
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As long as I don't proclaim them "BEST EVUR" or something similar, I think that's a pretty modest comment, even when it includes me. None of us have failed to perform so far, and I know most of them won't ever do so. The other ones I've heard good stuff about.
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As long as I don't proclaim them "BEST EVUR" or something similar, I think that's a pretty modest comment, even when it includes me. None of us have failed to perform so far, and I know most of them won't ever do so. The other ones I've heard good stuff about.
Oh, I didn't mean to tell "Stop Bragging noob", it was just a funny comment. And yes, I think newly appointed staff members are/will keep doing a great job, you included.
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seems to me that the council works good, effectiv and in a good spirit so far.
keep up the good work!
(...)
The discussion will be kept private. Votes will be made public.
where are this votes?
as a member of a democratic country, i would wish to have more transparents in the discussions.
this wont mean any discussion should be open anytime. but what speaks against, to make a discussion visible after they come to a decision?
if i we have a another election, i would like to see what a council member did, what her/his positions where and how he/she discuss. and if someone was active at all.
so i agree with kuros post. a better view into the councils work will give the community a better understanding, how much work the council does.
-> is it more then a fancy forum title, potato calling country club?
if this is so: show me! :P
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Can I get mod powers in the bugs forum please?
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Can I get mod powers in the bugs forum please?
I'm surprised you haven't already, unless I am missing something important. Thanks for giving us notice.
if i we have a another election, i would like to see what a council member did, what her/his positions where and how he/she discuss. and if someone was active at all.
so i agree with kuros post. a better view into the councils work will give the community a better understanding, how much work the council does.
-> is it more then a fancy forum title, potato calling country club?
if this is so: show me! :P
When we first started Council, I expected every poll to be shown. However, this was changed because we don't want the folks who don't make the cut to start complaining and asking why we didn't vote for them. It isn't personal by any means, we just don't want to start drama.
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yep, i understand the drama part.
but this can be another council job:
how do you think, to show the community your work you do, without drama.
the council section is actually empty.
but i think, i just have to be more patient (waves to gl1tch^^).
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Also, if someone decides to start drama over a decision made by the council then they clearly wouldn't have been a good candidate for the position. But nevertheless keep up the good work guys :)
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yep, i understand the drama part.
but this can be another council job:
how do you think, to show the community your work you do, without drama.
the council section is actually empty.
but i think, i just have to be more patient (waves to gl1tch^^).
It's empty because our discussion is hidden from the public. Also, if we feel it's necessary to summarize our actions for the community, we will vote on it. But so far, appointing certain staff members don't warrant an explanation as it is more personal preference.
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It's empty because our discussion is hidden from the public. Also, if we feel it's necessary to summarize our actions for the community, we will vote on it. But so far, appointing certain staff members don't warrant an explanation as it is more personal preference.
:fire :fire :fire there goes the democracy! smash down the licentious, elitist bureaucrats!
take out your gavels and forks! pick your torches and burn them down! :fire :fire :fire
erm ...do you feel for a vote now?
*end of joke*
i just though it would help you, to get the respect for your work. if you somehow show it.
and im also just courious^^
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Can I get mod powers in the bugs forum please?
Have we been formally appointed yet? Or is this thread it?
(Aside from Gl1tch's Bug Hunter Forum Icon, and this thread I have no knowledge of any of the new staff member's positions)
And I personally think it would be appreciated if we could see some of what is going on in the council. As far as we know, you could just be playing eenie meenie with all the candidates :P, even though I know such responsible people, who never resort to immature insults when the going gets though.
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More transparency to the council, hear hear!
No moderation without representation!
Moderator Comment Keep it down, peasant!
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Can I get mod powers in the bugs forum please?
Have we been formally appointed yet? Or is this thread it?
(Aside from Gl1tch's Bug Hunter Forum Icon, and this thread I have no knowledge of any of the new staff member's positions)
And I personally think it would be appreciated if we could see some of what is going on in the council. As far as we know, you could just be playing eenie meenie with all the candidates :P, even though I know such responsible people, who never resort to immature insults when the going gets though.
Unless something changes, this will probably be the thread that announces new positions and all of that jazz.
Although, I wouldn't mind a central hub in the Council section to announce stuff and... stuff.
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Unless something changes, this will probably be the thread that announces new positions and all of that jazz.
Although, I wouldn't mind a central hub in the Council section to announce stuff and... stuff.
This is a good idea. Sort of like a mini Forum News and Announcements section? I'd appreciate this. It may not be the full transparency that some community members want, but it would be a simple way to easily keep tabs on everything the council does. At the moment, it's a bit difficult to keep track of what, exactly, has been accomplished so far -- thus making proper feedback nearly impossible.
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I find it highly ironic that someone with the username Gl1tch was appointed Bug Hunter :P
Did this cross anyone else's mind?
(And I wouldn't mind mod powers in the GS&F section)
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If you do wish to make your suggestion public, this thread is likely better than any.
You are the FG! (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,11967.0.html) is falling apart. The organizer is MIA and the Round Robin brackets in the opening post haven't been updated in a dog's age. Please consider replacing the organizer and getting the event back on track.
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(And I wouldn't mind mod powers in the GS&F section)
I'm surprised you haven't yet. It will be brought up.
You are the FG! (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,11967.0.html) is falling apart. The organizer is MIA and the Round Robin brackets in the opening post haven't been updated in a dog's age. Please consider replacing the organizer and getting the event back on track.
Thank you Kevkev. The problem with this is that, in the PVP Event Submission thread, SG says that the person submitting the idea has the choice of hosting it themselves or not. I suppose it is okay to replace the host with an organizer, but they are also supposed to have their own events running. However, it will be talked about with the Council nonetheless.
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The council decided to release some information to us proles on who they'd selected for the 3 competition organizers and no surprise they'd voted 3 new titles to 3 council members. Corrupt politicians racking up more titles for themselves. I tell you we are posting in a dictatorship, a self-perpetuating autocracy in which the working classes..
What?
Hey!
Ouch!
Ah, now we see the violence inherent in the system.
Oh! Come and see the violence inherent in the system!
Help help I'm being repressed!!!
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i was a CO before the vote, and dragoon has shown extreme organization and epicness via videos.
kuro posted a contest voting and has proven to be exceptionally awesome. (maybe enough for a cookie?)
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The OP is now completely updated, including $$$man becoming our new FGO.
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I understand why you don't want to make everything public, even after the fact; but once the next vote rolls around how're we to know who to vote out if we have no idea which of you did what? Just a thought...
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just a question:
are you guys allowed to say "i move blah blah blah"
"i second that movement"
then vote on it and it happens? or is it just "heres what your going to vote on, now vote" and thats it?
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To be totally honest, I understand at the outset what the council is to do, but the more I think of it, I don't know what else you guys really do. Many moons ago, I was heavily involved with an organization (exec officer) who followed the hallowed Book Of Bob (Robert's rules of order) and between that and state/federal laws requiring that we follow Open meeting laws there was a very structured set of rules we had to adhere to making it so our members had the right to know what their elected officials were up to. Usually in the form of posted minutes on our website and copies of said minutes in packets at the next big meeting.
Long story short, what chance, if any, are we going to see something along those lines? I get this is a game and shouldn't be subject to anything extreme, but a little insight into what the people that we elected into office are up to every now and then. Korugar makes an interesting point... how are we suppose to vote for incumbant council members if we don't know whatcha been up to?
Please don't take any of this as negative criticism. I do know you guys do this free and take time from your gaming to do all that you do, from organizing to actual meetings. I am just looking for more transparency so the rest of the community can see the good job you folks are doing and maybe allow for some more feedback to work with during your meetings.
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Thank you for posting your concerns, everyone. We want to make the Council the best it can be.
I understand why you don't want to make everything public, even after the fact; but once the next vote rolls around how're we to know who to vote out if we have no idea which of you did what? Just a thought...
Various other Council Members and Scaredgirl have highlighted the fact that when that kind of information is given out, the votes and the applicants, the amount of drama that will surface will be high. Very high. Somebody is going to overreact to learning that they didn't get the amount of votes required while somebody else did, regardless of why the Council did so. That is also why we can't show the voting threads, since the Council is supposed to give their opinion about why they voted, and we can't let the public see some of the stuff we wouldn't normally post outside of the privacy of Council.
just a question:
are you guys allowed to say "i move blah blah blah"
"i second that movement"
then vote on it and it happens? or is it just "heres what your going to vote on, now vote" and thats it?
I am limited on how much detail I can say about this, but usually we suggest stuff the forum might need, take in the opinions and suggestions from the community, and vote accordingly. However, we do not vote willy-nilly.
Long story short, what chance, if any, are we going to see something along those lines? I get this is a game and shouldn't be subject to anything extreme, but a little insight into what the people that we elected into office are up to every now and then. Korugar makes an interesting point... how are we suppose to vote for incumbant council members if we don't know whatcha been up to?
To continue the first point I made to Korugar, it is hard to show what we've done. However, I wouldn't be against showing, say, everything we voted and discuss in the first month and a half of office during the next election. Enough time should have passed where somebody shouldn't be offended by the amount of votes they may or may not have earned.
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To last point...I like that idea. I by no means think you're handling it incorrectly, I simply posted what I thought to be relevant point. By revealing these things after X amount of time everyone can still make informed votes(perhaps not in the very next election, but still in a future one) with little to no chance of having drama.
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I don't agree that the council should hide thier votes about voting X member to Y position, but I do agree people may react poorly to losing a vote. In my experience, one shouldn't run for an office/elected position without know full well there's no guarantee of winning it. Someone has to lose for another to win. But I will concede the point. This is a game after all and not everything needs to posted and those that did the voting would likely come under fire from those that don't understand losing is a part of life. Also, I hates the dramas to so the less drama, the better ;)
As for posting what the council has done/is doing, a simple agenda of the upcoming meeting along with a copy of condensed minutes of the previous would be easy to do and go a long way to showing the community whatcha been up to. I "think" there is still a council thread floating around here. Just post on that with the agenda/minutes. Nothing extravagant, just enough to let the community know what's going on and a chance to maybe get something on the agenda they may feel needs dicussing.
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Thank you for posting your concerns, everyone. We want to make the Council the best it can be.
I understand why you don't want to make everything public, even after the fact; but once the next vote rolls around how're we to know who to vote out if we have no idea which of you did what? Just a thought...
Various other Council Members and Scaredgirl have highlighted the fact that when that kind of information is given out, the votes and the applicants, the amount of drama that will surface will be high. Very high. Somebody is going to overreact to learning that they didn't get the amount of votes required while somebody else did, regardless of why the Council did so. That is also why we can't show the voting threads, since the Council is supposed to give their opinion about why they voted, and we can't let the public see some of the stuff we wouldn't normally post outside of the privacy of Council.
Also, if someone decides to start drama over a decision made by the council then they clearly wouldn't have been a good candidate for the position.
I'm not saying your decision is wrong, I just don't understand why it would make a difference. Unless a council member votes against a person because they beat them in PvP one time or something equally ridiculous, candidates should be able to respect the council's opinions and if they can't, then that displays that they were not the best suited for the position in question.
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As for posting what the council has done/is doing, a simple agenda of the upcoming meeting along with a copy of condensed minutes of the previous would be easy to do and go a long way to showing the community whatcha been up to. I "think" there is still a council thread floating around here. Just post on that with the agenda/minutes. Nothing extravagant, just enough to let the community know what's going on and a chance to maybe get something on the agenda they may feel needs dicussing.
The Council is made up of people from all over the world, so it would be very difficult to get everyone online at once for any period of time. Instead, we post on threads discussing stuff. We still take things seriously, for the most part, but it isn't as strict as a government council meeting.
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Unless a council member votes against a person because they beat them in PvP one time or something equally ridiculous...
This won't happen.
...candidates should be able to respect the council's opinions and if they can't, then that displays that they were not the best suited for the position in question.
I completely agree with you, but it is much easier, at least for the time being, ignoring the drama all-together while we discuss other matters.
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Unless a council member votes against a person because they beat them in PvP one time or something equally ridiculous...
This won't happen.
...candidates should be able to respect the council's opinions and if they can't, then that displays that they were not the best suited for the position in question.
I completely agree with you, but it is much easier, at least for the time being, ignoring the drama all-together while we discuss other matters.
I know it won't happen, hence me saying it was ridiculous to even conceive it. I suppose if it's the easiest and most efficient thing to do then that's what is best. I do see your point on time being better spent addressing issues, however.
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As for posting what the council has done/is doing, a simple agenda of the upcoming meeting along with a copy of condensed minutes of the previous would be easy to do and go a long way to showing the community whatcha been up to. I "think" there is still a council thread floating around here. Just post on that with the agenda/minutes. Nothing extravagant, just enough to let the community know what's going on and a chance to maybe get something on the agenda they may feel needs dicussing.
The Council is made up of people from all over the world, so it would be very difficult to get everyone online at once for any period of time. Instead, we post on threads discussing stuff. We still take things seriously, for the most part, but it isn't as strict as a government council meeting.
Actually, making an agenda for this particular situation is very simple.
Just set a day of the week (Sunday perhaps) as a benchmark and develop an agenda from day 1 to day 7 of that week. Then post minutes of the previous weeks accomplishments/work within that week's timeframe. Post both the agenda and the minutes in a Council thread.
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I think what I'd like to see at this point is more community involvement. How does the council decide what needs to be done? Are there any future plans to take votes from the community on how the community itself could be improved? I think it would be nice if every once in a while, the community could pose issues and ideas to the council, perhaps take a vote on which issues are most important to us as a whole, and then let the council decide how to deal with that particular issue or idea.
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I think what I'd like to see at this point is more community involvement. How does the council decide what needs to be done? Are there any future plans to take votes from the community on how the community itself could be improved? I think it would be nice if every once in a while, the community could pose issues and ideas to the council, perhaps take a vote on which issues are most important to us as a whole, and then let the council decide how to deal with that particular issue or idea.
This thread is a great place to give suggestions. Most concerns here I share with the Council, and suggestions are no different. Polls wouldn't be such a bad idea, but this thread is already hidden as is. More threads would confuse the potatoes of the community even more.
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I think what I'd like to see at this point is more community involvement. How does the council decide what needs to be done? Are there any future plans to take votes from the community on how the community itself could be improved? I think it would be nice if every once in a while, the community could pose issues and ideas to the council, perhaps take a vote on which issues are most important to us as a whole, and then let the council decide how to deal with that particular issue or idea.
This is exactly why I was looking for the agenda/minutes suggestion to get some traction. Transparency is a good thing. Getting the community involved is the only suggestion I can think of to make the council better (not that it isn't good ;) ) and having community input on specific issues/ideas and getting them on the agenda, then posting the minutes with the results does two things- let the community know that the council has heard the community's concern/voice about X issue/idea and tell the community what the council has done about X idea/issue.
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I totally agree with anyone expressing concerns about the "concealed ways of the council".
While that "drama"-argument does make some sense, going about it by ignoring drama may yet be the source of
more drama.
E.g., howevermuch plastique may have put the fact that the council has voted 3 council members to the position
of competition organizer as a funny joke, that joke holds a sad truth.
Do you really expect the rejected applicants to take note of this through a single line in the OP of this thread and
not whine about it just because "the council has decided so"?
Chances are they wonder about it, a lot, or even get a little pissed off for being shut out without public reasoning.
If you consider drama to be a problem, then consider drama to start either way ... In fact, it has already started,
in the form of mild criticism and funny jokes to illustrate a point still but ... you get me here, right?
In my experience, one shouldn't run for an office/elected position without know full well there's no guarantee of winning it. Someone has to lose for another to win.
Also, one shouldn't run for office, win and then be immunized by the faceless power of an institution:
"Don't hold me responsible, `the board´ has decided to drop the bomb, not me."
In my opinion a democratically elected council should go about its affairs in a truly democratic and public way:
Normally, elected officials have to stand by every little action they take because they owe it to their voters.
While this may seem a little uncomfortable at first, democracy has found ways to turn it into a virtue.
It's for a reason quite a few people here are wondering how the hell they are going to decide whom to re-elect
next time.
All that having said, I think the council is generally an awesome idea.
Thanks for doing this in your free time! Keep up the good work guys!
PS:
just a question:
are you guys allowed to say "i move blah blah blah"
"i second that movement"
then vote on it and it happens? or is it just "heres what your going to vote on, now vote" and thats it?
I am limited on how much detail I can say about this [...]
Now this is a prime example of what nobody wants to hear and see from the council, especially not
when it's about something as "important" as this. ::)
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E.g., howevermuch plastique may have put the fact that the council has voted 3 council members to the position
of competition organizer as a funny joke, that joke holds a sad truth.
Do you really expect the rejected applicants to take note of this through a single line in the OP of this thread and
not whine about it just because "the council has decided so"?
The job of the Council is to pick the best people for the job. I have seen all these applications in question, and I can safely say that the best people were picked. Period. Had there not been a Council, I would have picked these same 3 people for the job, no question about it.
There was actually some concern among the Council about this same thing. I posted on that topic and said the same thing I said just now: you need to pick the best people, even if the best people is you yourself and your closest family. Hiring 2nd best people just to avoid it looking bad, is a dumb and a weak decision.
The Council gives out information on a need-to-know basis. You Jangoo do not need to know the recruitment policies of the Council, nor does the Council have to explain these decisions to you. Your role in all of this is limited to that one vote you have during the Council election.
We have talked about a system that would add more transparency to Council decisions (this has been the plan from day one), but it hasn't been implemented yet. Recruitment decisions however are, and will stay, hidden because there's no need to make them public, as it would only lead to drama.
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The Council gives out information on a need-to-know basis. You Jangoo do not need to know the recruitment policies of the Council, nor does the Council have to explain these decisions to you. Your role in all of this is limited to that one vote you have during the Council election.
Well, that's kind of the point, isn't it? Perhaps it wouldn't affect our playing or forum experience knowing how the council members voted, but what's the point of voting if you know...nothing? Now, I suppose what I'm saying is, if we who are not on the council don't know what the council members are doing, and thus our votes are a shot in the dark, why don't you yourself just appoint them?
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The Council gives out information on a need-to-know basis. You Jangoo do not need to know the recruitment policies of the Council, nor does the Council have to explain these decisions to you. Your role in all of this is limited to that one vote you have during the Council election.
Well, that's kind of the point, isn't it? Perhaps it wouldn't affect our playing or forum experience knowing how the council members voted, but what's the point of voting if you know...nothing? Now, I suppose what I'm saying is, if we who are not on the council don't know what the council members are doing, and thus our votes are a shot in the dark, why don't you yourself just appoint them?
Like I said in that last paragraph, there will be more transparency in a form of the public knowing how each Council Member voted in every single non-recruiting matter. You can use that information when it's time to vote for a new council.
Also candidates are usually people you know from the forums and/or chat, so it wouldn't be a "shot in the dark" even if you knew nothing about what's going on with the Council. A person who seems reasonable on the forums, probably makes reasonable decisions as a Council Member as well.
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I totally understand the need for the hiring process to stay hidden. In my time with organizations that were run by elected members, we were responsible for hiring people to run our day to day operations and the hiring process was seperate from the community that elected us. Disiplenary issues and a select few others were also done behind closed doors for many obvious and legal reasons. But as long as SG assures us that the council is working to bring transparency to the community, I, myself at least, am satisfied. Most of the people on the council are people I voted for in the first place and me being one who taks pride in my ability to vote, place some faith in their abilities. If I didn't there's be little point in voting for them :)
All things considered, the council was originally created to take a load off of SG. The fact SG shifted some responsibility to the community is a testemant in itself. But please understand, to let us have that responsibility then shield us from it at the same time is a bit for some of us to chew. I know the council is working hard, never let it be said I think otherwise. I just would like to know from time to time what's going on so I can make informed decisions in the future elections and continue to be a small voice looking to be heard so that I, to, may help this gaming community grow.
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Can I please get mod powers in the forum games section Kthnxbai.
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Like I said in that last paragraph, there will be more transparency in a form of the public knowing how each Council Member voted in every single non-recruiting matter. You can use that information when it's time to vote for a new council.
Then I apologize, I had not noticed that part of your paragraph. Sorry for wasting your time!
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well, let talk about allocate jobs.
you are not the first one, who gives out wanted jobs^^.
and also in rl, the "drama part" is mostly considered in any job interview/application process.
the best strategie to avoid a drama is not silence about the application process, its a transparent choise.
so i suggest, to appoint some rules, how you choose/vote for forum jobs.
a simple list of preference would do it.
this wont exclude personal meanings, but might prevent to give the personal choise a too heavy wheight.
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Can I please get mod powers in the forum games section Kthnxbai.
We are currently behind when it comes to giving the new staff their mod powers. DrunkDestroyer and Zeru are also waiting.
<-- This guy too.
Regardless, we should be patient. SG has much bigger things to commit his time to.
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More transparency to the council, hear hear!
No moderation without representation!
Keep it down, peasant! :P
I lol'ed so hard at this.
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i dont do tournaments or pvp events, so honestly i didnt know if you guys had done anything at all yet /shrug
*edit- fixed my conjugation
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well, let talk about allocate jobs.
you are not the first one, who gives out wanted jobs^^.
and also in rl, the "drama part" is mostly considered in any job interview/application process.
the best strategie to avoid a drama is not silence about the application process, its a transparent choise.
so i suggest, to appoint some rules, how you choose/vote for forum jobs.
a simple list of preference would do it.
this wont exclude personal meanings, but might prevent to give the personal choise a too heavy wheight.
Sure, lets talk about real life.
I don't know if you are old enough to have applied for a real life job, but I can assure you that when you apply for a job in real life, the recruiter won't publicly announce why a person was hired and why others weren't. From a job applicants perspective, all you get is a "yes" or a "no".
The reason why it's like this, is that having a big discussion about what happened is a waste of everyones time and serves no purpose what so ever. Decision has been made, it's time to move on. Even if you think that you were more qualified for the job, the people who make the decisions, unfortunately didn't. End of story.
Lets say an applicant has shown some childish and trolling behavior in the past. This is something that the Council might discuss before making a recruitment decision, and it might be a deal breaker in that person becoming a staff member. You think that making this kind of discussion public would somehow serve the community because it's the "transparent choice"? It wouldn't.
You asked about "rules" on who gets chosen. Well, each individual job opening topic has requirements. If you meet those requirements, you probably have a high chance of of getting picked. If you don't meet those requirements, your chances are slim. Very simple.
One unwritten rule is that veteran members probably have an advantage. It's like in real life: when you have worked for a company longer than others, your chances of getting that promotion are much higher because the bosses know that you can be trusted. I personally like to hire veteran members because they are much more likely to stick around longer. Gamers are not that loyal, so when you find those people that stay with the community for better or for worse, you hang on to those people.
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Can jmdt get mod powers in the deck section please? I'm honestly surprised he hasn't, seeing as how there are constant misplacement issues with decks, issues regarding deck codes, etc, etc, etc. Plus the deck section has by far the most activity and therefore consists of the most errors, right now it appears to be the most organized section IMO; so how about it?
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Can jmdt get mod powers in the deck section please? I'm honestly surprised he hasn't, seeing as how there are constant misplacement issues with decks, issues regarding deck codes, etc, etc, etc. Plus the deck section has by far the most activity and therefore consists of the most errors, right now it appears to be the most organized section IMO; so how about it?
Can I please get mod powers in the forum games section Kthnxbai.
We are currently behind when it comes to giving the new staff their mod powers. DrunkDestroyer and Zeru are also waiting.
<-- This guy too.
Regardless, we should be patient. SG has much bigger things to commit his time to.
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Can jmdt get mod powers in the deck section please? I'm honestly surprised he hasn't, seeing as how there are constant misplacement issues with decks, issues regarding deck codes, etc, etc, etc. Plus the deck section has by far the most activity and therefore consists of the most errors, right now it appears to be the most organized section IMO; so how about it?
Can I please get mod powers in the forum games section Kthnxbai.
We are currently behind when it comes to giving the new staff their mod powers. DrunkDestroyer and Zeru are also waiting.
<-- This guy too.
Regardless, we should be patient. SG has much bigger things to commit his time to.
My apologies, seeing as how jmdt's name wasn't included in that statement I was given the impression that he wasn't being considered. I also found it strange that he's held his status longer but is further down the line for having his powers instated...*shrugs* but it's clear you're working on it.
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(...)
Sure, lets talk about real life.
I don't know if you are old enough to have applied for a real life job, but I can assure you that when you apply for a job in real life, the recruiter won't publicly announce why a person was hired and why others weren't. From a job applicants perspective, all you get is a "yes" or a "no".
i am actually old enough.^^
also i am old enough to be once in a employment-committee of our community.
and i dont know how exactly it works in your country, but in mine, you always get a (short) explanation why you dont get the job. e.g. "sry you arent experienced enough, we need other qualifications..."
in bigger companys you even have announcement in memos, why someone is picked/promoted. (specailly the promoting part, because you will still work together)
my whole point is, if you know there is a fair process of picking someone, you dont have more reasons to complain.
you might able to accept the choise more likely as you have to suspect "person x dont like me so i dont got picked".
i just try to help you to avoid any drama. and in my experience, keeping everything secret dont help.
in any application process there is some personal meanings in it (i dont like his hair eg.). and i agree with you, this should kept secret.
again in dont vote for a public discussion, i vote for a public "see how the application process works").
you have some good points about the "qualification" an applicant needs. why (the council) dont write a guidline in the Council thread?
as a guideline, this would even make the job for the council easyer.
it really helps, to have some structured proceedings/priorityes for any team dessicion.
(you might have allready something like this, i just dont know)
edit: i just wanted to explain my opinion. please take this an attempt to to give my ideas in. i dont expect any immediate measure. i know there are other things burning atm.
and its still game forum ;).
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I suppose I can say what the Council looks at, since it isn't directed at anyone specifically. This isn't everything, but it is some of the major things.
- We read applications.
Every Council Member reads every application entered, and, believe it or not, it does have a judgment on the votes an applicant may or may not receive. Great spelling and grammar will be a great note to start off on, since it shows that the applicant actually dedicated some time into writing it. If one doesn't know how to write an application, they should just list what they have done in the past, why the applicant feels he/she would be best for the position, and something else that will make us feel like "this is the one for this position."
For instance, this is my application, word for word, for the Competition Organizer position.
Hello there vrt, and other Council Members that will be reading this. My name is Dragoon1140, a very active member of the community and dedicated Youtuber. I've spent a long time looking at the Competition section of the forums, waiting for something to spur the creativity that the entire community has to offer, but I have come to be disappointed.
Thus, I would love to be one of the Competition Organizers, both to feel like I'm giving something back to the community outside of Council, and to make sure the folk who don't like PVP still have the fun they deserve. I want to spread the potato of creativity across the farm of Elements forum members, and make sure they all have an awesome time growing their vegetable to win the state fair and earn a nice little trophy to put under their avatar. Because I am so active, I will likely answer any and all questions people may have.
Being a Competition Organizer would be quite the experience, and I would love to become a part of it. Thank you for your time.
- We look at how long the applicant been part of the community.
If the applicant has just joined two weeks ago, the chances of them earning a forum position are little to none. If, however, the applicant has been here for a long time, helping out around the forum and is a well-known face, they will likely gain the position if it comes down to it. On the other hand, this does not mean that a veteran-status member will always earn the position over somebody else who we feel would do better.
- We read what the applicant has done in that section.
Posting a lot in the forum section we are looking at hiring somebody for will help an applicant's chances to earn a leadership role in that section. Posting there willy-nilly does not impress, and will likely affect our votes. Again, this does not mean somebody completely foreign to the section cannot become a moderator/organizer for the section. We will hire somebody else like that, if we feel it is needed.
I hope this clears up some confusion as to what specifically we look for in an applicant. :)
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thank you dragoon. that was exactly what i was looking for.
*cough* sticky in the council thread?
and again keep up the good work ;).
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and i dont know how exactly it works in your country, but in mine, you always get a (short) explanation why you dont get the job. e.g. "sry you arent experienced enough, we need other qualifications..."
in bigger companys you even have announcement in memos, why someone is picked/promoted. (specailly the promoting part, because you will still work together)
Hm.. ok, I have to call bs on that one. :) Are you seriously suggesting that job recruiters in your country spend 1-2 weeks sending customized emails (or phone calls) to applicants who didn't get picked? :)
If you are talking about this same "I'm sorry but this time you weren't picked.." default email they send out to everyone, then yes we have that in my country too.
Sure you can get the reasons if you want, but there are a couple of things to consider:
1. You have to specifically ask for it
2. It won't be made public
3. It might not even be true (they won't tell you you didn't get the job because you are ugly)
And those announcement memos.. I highly doubt that they contain any information on the people who didn't get picked. Or are they like this:
Bill has been appointed Regional Manager. Frank wasn't appointed because he has an attitude problem. Laura wasn't appointed because she's too old.. etc.
I don't want any public topics about these things because they are guaranteed to lead to drama when people start posting "why wasn't I picked?!". Furthermore, these topics serve no purpose because the decision has already been made.
Posting clear job requirements is a good thing to have, but I see no reason why the Council would be required to somehow explain their actions. They just chose the person they feel would be best for the job. That's it.
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you might be right. i probably have more experience with friendly companys, who shared their apllication procedure in public.
in the average economy its more likely, like you picture it.
(...)
I don't want any public topics about these things because they are guaranteed to lead to drama when people start posting "why wasn't I picked?!". Furthermore, these topics serve no purpose because the decision has already been made.
again... i neither want a public disscusion about someone isnt picked because she/he has a ugly avatar or a stupid sig.
all i wanted was a idea how the council is working.
Dragoon pointed it out and im happy with that.
if the ppl see, they do it in a correct manner, this prevents flamewars in a active way.
secret/hidden things can lead to alot of speculations and can head to drama.
Posting clear job requirements is a good thing to have, but I see no reason why the Council would be required to somehow explain their actions. They just chose the person they feel would be best for the job. That's it.
explaining your actions is always helpfull to avoid drama. specially with kids.
and as i always like to cross the swords with you, Scaredgirl. i will now end my "crusade" here and might applie for the next council vote or a forum job i probably fit :P
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i will now end my "crusade" here and might applie for the next council vote or a forum job i probably fit :P
You are perfectly okay asking questions like you are, especially in the calm manner that you are. That is what this thread is made for. :)
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Yeah, don't get me wrong either. I just come from a background of having worked with committees and elected councils in the past so I have a few preset ideas of how things usually work. Thanks Dragoon for the posting and explanation.. helps a lot! Keep up the good works!!
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Around how long do you think we need to be an active member of the community to have a reasonable chance to get into council? I read the other post about how to increase your chances of getting in but it wasn't very specific
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Around how long do you think we need to be an active member of the community to have a reasonable chance to get into council? I read the other post about how to increase your chances of getting in but it wasn't very specific
If you want to "get in" the Council, just show that you are a dedicated, active member of the community that most people will recognize. Having under two hundred posts isn't ideal, but yes, it is possible to run in the next election.
As for a previous post, assuming you are speaking of my application thread, that has nothing to do with being nominated for, and eventually becoming, a Council Member.
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Since (as far as I can tell) I have no mod powers yet, could someone please sticky/copy and paste/edit original topic to include this?
http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,13750.msg185349#msg185349
A lot of similar topics have been cropping up, and it's nice to show people that their ideas have been acknowledged.
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Council has decided upon three new Deck Helpers.
hrmmm, kevkev60614, and Kuross.
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wow -- i almost missed that.
gratulations to kuross and kevkev.
im looking forward for a good teamwork.
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Allow me to quote a fellow Council Member:
girlsgeneration, Dm1321 and TheonlyrealBeef have been appointed Tournament Organizers.
ji412jo, Malduk, and kobisjeruk have been appointed PvP Organizers.
Congratulations to everybody. OP will be updated very, very soon.
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after 60 days...(or more)
what does the overseer do?
and thanks everyone.
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The Trial Overseer (xdude) made sure the recent Trials proceeded smoothly. He started the topics, communicated with the participants and had a large part in planning the trials. I see now the title listed in the OP isn't specified as Trial Overseer, but that's what it is.
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I think it needs to find a new bug-hunter, like you said it would.