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Offline Drake_XIV

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Re: Weird Neurotoxin thing https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=45892.msg1032036#msg1032036
« Reply #24 on: January 14, 2013, 05:49:36 pm »
Then, by your argument, you've explained why.  Since SoW was made with Psion in mind, it is not farfetched to say that SoW bestows psionic abilities.  When done so, the target, instead of attacking normally, chooses to attack with it's newfound psionic ability instead of it's norm.  And it's clear that one cannot attack with a stinger and damage physically when done so with such power.

And is there any reason why the Shard of Wisdom cannot cause a card to make the same attack, only psionically?  There are, after all, psionic equivalents of the attacks which are lost.

We are functioning under the simpler idea that a psionic attack is equal for all creatures at the moment, not varying among them depending on the target.

In the same regard, how would one make the same attack psionically?  In order to transfer poison, the attack must be made directly, but a psionic attack is one of the mind, is it not?  If it were to enhance an attack, then it functions as SoW does currently without Quint.

Offline OldTrees

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Re: Weird Neurotoxin thing https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=45892.msg1032107#msg1032107
« Reply #25 on: January 14, 2013, 08:19:27 pm »
Your counter-arguments seem to be getting less and less relevant to this thread.

The thread is based on the question: Is the current interaction contradictory to the theme of the buff?
Your argument is:
1) A possible theme is that SoW alters the creature's attack
2) The interaction does not match this possible theme
3) Therefore the interaction should be changed
My counter argument is
1) An alternative theme is that SoW replaces the creature's attack
2) The interaction does fit this theme
3) Since there is a theme that does fit the interaction, there is no thematic reason to demand the interaction change.
« Last Edit: January 14, 2013, 08:28:46 pm by OldTrees »
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Offline ElementalDearWatsonTopic starter

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Re: Weird Neurotoxin thing https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=45892.msg1032286#msg1032286
« Reply #26 on: January 15, 2013, 09:19:18 am »
We are functioning under the simpler idea that a psionic attack is equal for all creatures at the moment, not varying among them depending on the target.

How is it varying if the end result is "the card has the same attack and abilities as it did previously, except the physical has become magical"?  Surely it's varying if the end result is "the card has the same physical attack as it did previously except that is now magical rather than physical, it keeps its ability if the ability is passive or one that requires activation, but loses its ability if the ability is active but automatic"?

Quote
In the same regard, how would one make the same attack psionically?  In order to transfer poison, the attack must be made directly, but a psionic attack is one of the mind, is it not?

The same way that the spell Poison transfers poison.  You can't say that it's impossible to have a magical transfer of poison when there's already a spell which does exactly that.

Offline OldTrees

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Re: Weird Neurotoxin thing https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=45892.msg1032301#msg1032301
« Reply #27 on: January 15, 2013, 12:44:37 pm »
We are functioning under the simpler idea that a psionic attack is equal for all creatures at the moment, not varying among them depending on the target.

How is it varying if the end result is "the card has the same attack and abilities as it did previously, except the physical has become magical"?  Surely it's varying if the end result is "the card has the same physical attack as it did previously except that is now magical rather than physical, it keeps its ability if the ability is passive or one that requires activation, but loses its ability if the ability is active but automatic"?

Let's pretend Psionist is a spellcaster for a moment.
You are under the mindset that Shard of Wisdom would give Vampires Siphon Life, Scorpions would get Deadly Poison and Abominations would get a generic combat spell(Lightning).
So under that mindset Shard of Wisdom would vary which spell it gives based on the creature.

Drake_XIV and I are under the mindset that Shard of Wisdom replaces rather than alters. This means that Shard of Wisdom would give all creatures a generic combat spell(Lightning).
So under this mindset Shard of Wisdom does not vary in which spell it gives to the creature.

The current disagreement is akin to whether we are playing "Protect Artifact" on a weapon or playing "Morning Glory" over a weapon. The second analogy fits the interaction. Since one of the thematic options is consistent, Zanz does not need to waste time changing the interaction for thematic reasons.
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Offline ElementalDearWatsonTopic starter

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Re: Weird Neurotoxin thing https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=45892.msg1032327#msg1032327
« Reply #28 on: January 15, 2013, 03:04:10 pm »
You are under the mindset that Shard of Wisdom would give Vampires Siphon Life, Scorpions would get Deadly Poison and Abominations would get a generic combat spell(Lightning).

You seem to have a habit of presenting straw man arguments.  I have no time for such things.   My posts aren't unclear.

Offline Drake_XIV

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Re: Weird Neurotoxin thing https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=45892.msg1032579#msg1032579
« Reply #29 on: January 16, 2013, 09:32:15 am »
We are functioning under the simpler idea that a psionic attack is equal for all creatures at the moment, not varying among them depending on the target.

How is it varying if the end result is "the card has the same attack and abilities as it did previously, except the physical has become magical"?  Surely it's varying if the end result is "the card has the same physical attack as it did previously except that is now magical rather than physical, it keeps its ability if the ability is passive or one that requires activation, but loses its ability if the ability is active but automatic"?

Quote
In the same regard, how would one make the same attack psionically?  In order to transfer poison, the attack must be made directly, but a psionic attack is one of the mind, is it not?

The same way that the spell Poison transfers poison.  You can't say that it's impossible to have a magical transfer of poison when there's already a spell which does exactly that.

I feel that the 'spell' Poison is only a 'spell' for the sake of fitting it into one of the three pre-existing groupings.  I imagine it more of spill some of toxic substance over the opponent.  An argument would to simply say it is an 'instant' card.

That is my stance regarding that, and thus, Poison is not considered in my arguments of whether it is an aspect of spell damages.

Also, how does one's attack become magical/psionic while still being physical, which I still maintain how the poison is spread?  How would one magically/psionically inflect poison?

And from what I understand, you avoid making the assumption that Psions, which are endowed naturally with SoW, attack with a variation of Lightning, but are free to assume that a scorpion endowed with the same power attacks with a variaton that poisons?

Offline ElementalDearWatsonTopic starter

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Re: Weird Neurotoxin thing https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=45892.msg1032586#msg1032586
« Reply #30 on: January 16, 2013, 10:40:24 am »
I feel that the 'spell' Poison is only a 'spell' for the sake of fitting it into one of the three pre-existing groupings.

Yet, nonetheless, it is a spell.

Quote
I imagine it more of spill some of toxic substance over the opponent.

That would require a physical attack and any shield which blocks physical attacks should block it.

Offline Drake_XIV

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Re: Weird Neurotoxin thing https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=45892.msg1032596#msg1032596
« Reply #31 on: January 16, 2013, 11:14:32 am »
I imagine it more of spill some of toxic substance over the opponent.

That would require a physical attack and any shield which blocks physical attacks should block it.

It seems you're limiting the means of poisoning to liquids and forsaking aerosol means.


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Re: Weird Neurotoxin thing https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=45892.msg1032618#msg1032618
« Reply #32 on: January 16, 2013, 01:32:39 pm »
Well, firstly, you said "spill" and you don't spill an aerosol, you spray it.  And, secondly, an aerosol is still physical, so should still be stopped by a shield that prevents physical attacks.

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Re: Weird Neurotoxin thing https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=45892.msg1032686#msg1032686
« Reply #33 on: January 16, 2013, 06:53:12 pm »
Well, firstly, you said "spill" and you don't spill an aerosol, you spray it.  And, secondly, an aerosol is still physical, so should still be stopped by a shield that prevents physical attacks.

I had meant aerosol to refer to a gaseous forme as opposed to it being sprayed.

Sorry, going to nitpick here, but how would one block a cloud of poison?  My assumption is that it would have hung in the air until inhaled.

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Re: Weird Neurotoxin thing https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=45892.msg1032873#msg1032873
« Reply #34 on: January 17, 2013, 10:43:02 am »
I had meant aerosol to refer to a gaseous forme as opposed to it being sprayed.

A gas is still physical.

Quote
Sorry, going to nitpick here, but how would one block a cloud of poison?  My assumption is that it would have hung in the air until inhaled.

More to the point, how could a cloud of poison spontaneously phase itself into a different dimension?

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Re: Weird Neurotoxin thing https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=45892.msg1032879#msg1032879
« Reply #35 on: January 17, 2013, 11:22:54 am »
I had meant aerosol to refer to a gaseous forme as opposed to it being sprayed.

A gas is still physical.

Quote
Sorry, going to nitpick here, but how would one block a cloud of poison?  My assumption is that it would have hung in the air until inhaled.

More to the point, how could a cloud of poison spontaneously phase itself into a different dimension?

I imagine it is stored in a vessel not unlike the one depicted on the card.

 

anything
blarg: