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Offline RootRanger

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Re: Unified Elements PVP Achievements Leaderboard https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=55304.msg1153362#msg1153362
« Reply #36 on: August 31, 2014, 04:54:47 pm »
It's pretty good.

The only major flaw in the scoring is the excessive weight given to winning team PvP Events.

Poisonking currently has 150 points. This is more than winning 3 tournaments. Where do these points come from?

I see that he was a member of the winning team in Draft. So, I guess that makes sense. Now, exactly how many games did he win in Draft?

Well...he didn't exactly win any games...he didn't even play any games.

Poisonking has won more points than 3 tournament victories for being on the winning team of an event in which he never played a single game.

I really, really want this to be great, elk. And I deeply appreciate the work you've put into this. But it's a bit difficult to take seriously when things like this happen.
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Offline mrpaper

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Re: Unified Elements PVP Achievements Leaderboard https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=55304.msg1153365#msg1153365
« Reply #37 on: August 31, 2014, 05:10:07 pm »
It's pretty good.

The only major flaw in the scoring is the excessive weight given to winning team PvP Events.

Poisonking currently has 150 points. This is more than winning 3 tournaments. Where do these points come from?

I see that he was a member of the winning team in Draft. So, I guess that makes sense. Now, exactly how many games did he win in Draft?

Well...he didn't exactly win any games...he didn't even play any games.

Poisonking has won more points than 3 tournament victories for being on the winning team of an event in which he never played a single game.

I really, really want this to be great, elk. And I deeply appreciate the work you've put into this. But it's a bit difficult to take seriously when things like this happen.

Well this matters very few as we are talking about some bottom of the list player... but nevertheless, I get you're point... maybe you could be exluded to get points from team events if you didnt participate or quit by yourself  during the event.. That would requires people to say someone wasnt playing though... you rememeber poisonking, but I doubt there is that many others.  As for the points for events, we can't agree on all... I personnally think WC is a bit overrated as it is just another single pvp events but with rewars on it and a shinier title... but I am ok with whatever Elk has called.  Also, would be weird to change the value and then having players just go up and down in standings.

Offline theelkspeaksTopic starter

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Re: Unified Elements PVP Achievements Leaderboard https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=55304.msg1153387#msg1153387
« Reply #38 on: August 31, 2014, 07:55:17 pm »
It's pretty good.

The only major flaw in the scoring is the excessive weight given to winning team PvP Events.

Poisonking currently has 150 points. This is more than winning 3 tournaments. Where do these points come from?

I see that he was a member of the winning team in Draft. So, I guess that makes sense. Now, exactly how many games did he win in Draft?

Well...he didn't exactly win any games...he didn't even play any games.

Poisonking has won more points than 3 tournament victories for being on the winning team of an event in which he never played a single game.

I really, really want this to be great, elk. And I deeply appreciate the work you've put into this. But it's a bit difficult to take seriously when things like this happen.

As I said in my wrap-up post, I consider it more important to get the top right than the bottom.  I'd say right now the leaderboard is fairly accurate for all players with >=500 points, which I think is pretty good.  I admit there's some irregularities in the lower range due to players who were carried in a Team PVP Event or even a War, but in my opinion that's the cost of valuing achievements to correctly reveal the top players. 

PVP Events, whether team or individual, tend to require a lot more preparation and skill to win than a weekly tournament, and are far more complex in their structure.
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Offline RootRanger

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Re: Unified Elements PVP Achievements Leaderboard https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=55304.msg1153410#msg1153410
« Reply #39 on: August 31, 2014, 09:28:15 pm »
PVP Events, whether team or individual, tend to require a lot more preparation and skill to win than a weekly tournament, and are far more complex in their structure.

Incorrect.

You can do absolutely nothing and win a Team PvP Event. This is completely untrue in tournaments.

While your list is fairly accurate for players with >500 points, why miss out on an opportunity to make it even more accurate?

Like I said, your Leaderboard is pretty good, but it could be great.

Here is my suggestion: make everything an individual PvP Event. Team Events will be decided based on the individual records of the players on the winning team.

As an example, I've taken the time to already do this for Falling Empire. Let's look at the members of the Rebels.

Jappert finished 4-1
agentflare finished 3-2
Aves finished 2-3
ddevans96 finished 1-1
MrBlonde finished 1-1
ZBlader finished 1-1
LifeLockable finished 0-1

In this case, Jappert receives 150 points, agentflare receives 100, and Aves receives 75.

I think this is a far superior system.

The alternative is that players like LifeLockable, who finish 0-1, receive more points for being lucky than someone who wins 3 tournaments.

And you can't seriously tell me that going 0-1 is what takes more skill and preparation.
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Offline Higurashi

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Re: Unified Elements PVP Achievements Leaderboard https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=55304.msg1153421#msg1153421
« Reply #40 on: August 31, 2014, 11:46:25 pm »
Completely agree with RootRangr. Calculating by wins would make far more sense, teamwork or not.
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Offline theelkspeaksTopic starter

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Re: Unified Elements PVP Achievements Leaderboard https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=55304.msg1153427#msg1153427
« Reply #41 on: September 01, 2014, 12:12:18 am »
I'm not sure I agree with scaling the points among team members - making that work fairly across dissimilar events is dubious - but I think a rule saying you have to win at least one match to earn points wouldn't be unreasonable.
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Offline yee

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Re: Unified Elements PVP Achievements Leaderboard https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=55304.msg1153489#msg1153489
« Reply #42 on: September 01, 2014, 12:36:40 pm »
Wow, didn't think I'll show up in those tables.

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Re: Unified Elements PVP Achievements Leaderboard https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=55304.msg1153490#msg1153490
« Reply #43 on: September 01, 2014, 12:41:04 pm »
For Falling Empire I'd agree on that, but for events such as War where teams have to share a limited pool of cards (allocating less-than-optimal decks to players), might not be such of a good idea. Depends on the event really.
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Offline mrpaper

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Re: Unified Elements PVP Achievements Leaderboard https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=55304.msg1153652#msg1153652
« Reply #44 on: September 02, 2014, 03:59:37 pm »
I'm not sure I agree with scaling the points among team members - making that work fairly across dissimilar events is dubious - but I think a rule saying you have to win at least one match to earn points wouldn't be unreasonable.
I agree too also let's not forget that we often takes newcomers out of the team 1st so they aren't likely to get much points.. even if they  still contribute after they are out (in some events).

Offline RootRanger

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Re: Unified Elements PVP Achievements Leaderboard https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=55304.msg1153668#msg1153668
« Reply #45 on: September 02, 2014, 05:20:42 pm »
Think of it this way. You've handed out 225+150+100+75+60+50+40=700 points for Championship League and 150+100+75+60+50+40+20=495 points for Battle League. That's 1195 points total, for both Leagues combined.

For an entire six months of tournaments, you've handed out 26(40+20+10)=1820 points.

For Harry Potter PvP, you've handed out 8*150+7*100=1900 points.

After giving your leaderboard further scrutiny, I cannot even take it seriously.

I'm sorry.
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Offline theelkspeaksTopic starter

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Re: Unified Elements PVP Achievements Leaderboard https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=55304.msg1153672#msg1153672
« Reply #46 on: September 02, 2014, 05:37:26 pm »
Think of it this way. You've handed out 225+150+100+75+60+50+40=700 points for Championship League and 150+100+75+60+50+40+20=495 points for Battle League. That's 1195 points total, for both Leagues combined.

For an entire six months of tournaments, you've handed out 26(40+20+10)=1820 points.

For Harry Potter PvP, you've handed out 8*150+7*100=1900 points.

After giving your leaderboard further scrutiny, I cannot even take it seriously.

I'm sorry.

The teams in that event were larger than in any other PVP Team Event.  I wasn't sure how to handle it, so I treated it as a normal Team PVP event, despite the anomalous size. 
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Offline RootRanger

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Re: Unified Elements PVP Achievements Leaderboard https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=55304.msg1153680#msg1153680
« Reply #47 on: September 02, 2014, 06:02:23 pm »
Why are you grouping all of the Team PvP Events together in the first place? TeamPvP takes much more skill to win than HPvP because of the significantly larger number of teams involved. Falling Empire is hardly a team event at all because it's won by an individual player, not a team. When you group all the Team PvP Events together like this, you end up with completely outrageous conclusions, such as Harry Potter PvP being more important than an entire six months of weekly tournaments.
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