Things that make Rainbow decks overpowered, solutions.

[Geradi]

I still think, like already mentioned, that the sundial card was the real powerup for rainbow decks. Sure many cards got lower costs after the upgrade, but a player can just play 3 or 4 sundials, one after the other, use the extra card draw while the opponent will be kind of stunned. Thats all rainbow needs, even without upgrades that would be enough to get rainbows advantage (the best of all worlds) into play.

And I don't think anyone really cares about overpowered decks in a non pvp game, doesn't hurt anyone. There is no need to think about mentioned two aspects, we wouldn't talk about overpowered decks if they would just be used to play PvE, we talk about them because we have to face them in PvP. Why should I care about anyones grinding deck?


As a side note, I don't understand why a card game should be compared to chess. A card game, even poker, is most of the times won if you have the right cards at the right time, uncertainness if your opponent has the card to counter may come into play as well. There is no uncertainness on a chess board, all your "cards" are there from the beginning, and you can see all of the "cards" your oppenent.

[JTWood]

My biggest complaint about rainbow decks has nothing to do with how overpowered they are.

I hate that a) it's hard to win cards off them, and b) most of the cards you do win aren't very valuable.

 

[Jumbalumba]

Rainbow wasn't very popular before the upgrade system. Care to explain that little factoid?

[Site Administrator]

Can we set up surveys on these forums?

Board list -> add new poll.


As for not hearing from the developers, I sent an email to zanz, and recieved this reply:

I do read the forum every few days, I do not answer questions because, well, the volume of emails+posts on various forums would keep me glued to the pc 24/7, I prefer to stick to the game and try to improve it and fix bugs... and go back to the forums when I am ready for more feedback.

EDIT: something I remembered after clicking on save.

Somewhere (can't be bothered to find out where), someone sugested that your mark (or pillars) generated double quantum if you had ONLY that colour in your deck.

[Uncle Jellyfish]

A simple fix to Rainbow decks is, in my opinion, to simply raise the cost of unupgraded Sundials from one to two. Keep the upgrade the same (because it has uses in other decks, such as stall in Light using decks). This would slightly cripple the overwhelming power of Rainbow decks in PvP. Or, of course, if you have the money and the cards, you could just use the Anti-Rainbow posted by Scaredgirl. You'd be vulnerable to well built mono-Dark and mono-Fire decks, but you'd do very well against rainbow decks, and most others as well. o-o

[Uncle Jellyfish]

In my second post, with the red highlight, I never mentioned it being an analogy. I did in my first post, but not the second, so don't misread this. >.> But still, simile, analogy, big deal. Point is, he's stating his personal preference. No need to get technical. Also, why does it seem that a lot of people get so hostile? So eager to correct others and to make people see things "they're way" instead of being open to the fact of "hey, perhaps I am wrong/potentially biased." There's nothing wrong with that (note that I am NOT saying that anyone is right or worng about anything, so don't take this out of context, since if I didn't add this bit here, someone most likely would).

Back on topic: MapleStory doesn't have a direct PvP play, but that's just one example (even if it does have one of the largest followings in online gaming). Sure, a lot of games do have PvP, and I'm sure that most would agree that this game must involve PvE to gain money and upgrade cards (upgrading cards is sorta similar to leveling up in an MMO...the more levels you have, the stronger you are. Likewise, the more upgrades you have, the better your deck), as well as PvP to maintain the competetive crowds and allow the free exchange of strategies, as well as a show of strength. I think one of the main concerns here is the uneven match-ups in PvP, or the lack of variety due to the multitudes of Rainbow decks. We could argue this all day, but really, it wouldn't get anything accomplished except to frustrate everyone that believes they're "right" and everyone that disagrees with them is "wrong." =/

[Uncle Jellyfish]

Also, are you saying that you like poker vs computers more than poker vs humans?  I didn't understand the relevance.

His Poker vs. Chess comparison was to show how he likes chess, which requires no luck and all strategy, better than poker, which requires both luck and a good poker face. Brian was simply using an analogy.

Also, if we make it so that all Pillars produce two quanta, upgraded or not, then they would be SEVERELY overpowered. And also, think of the False Gods, who predominately run Towers. They would then be able to produce two quanta per tower per turn, which would make them even stronger. I think that perhaps, when upgraded, single element Towers should produce two quanta when they enter play, instead of just one, and then only produce one per turn, as usual. This would help a bit with the balancing of rainbow vs. fewer-element decks.

[Uncle Jellyfish]

His Poker vs. Chess comparison was to show how he likes chess, which requires no luck and all strategy, better than poker, which requires both luck and a good poker face. Brian was simply using an analogy.

Umm.. Firstly, in an analogy there are two things analogous to two other things, like if Joe were a cat and I were a bird then the situation would be like this...  Secondly, so what? my question was about the relevance.  He didn't just say it out of the blue, he had a point, which I don't yet see.

Read the red text.

First of all your own personal opinion is not compass for how the game should be designed. I for one don't enjoy competition when there's luck involved... you can say I'm more of a chess guy and not so much a poker guy. Anyway, personal opinions on what the objective of the game SHOULD be are meaningless. That's up for the game creator/designer.

His comparison of chess and poker is showing how he prefers strategy over luck. He's stating his own personal preference, which may not be relevent to the thread's topic, but his comparison is relevent to his preference. I'm a little stumped as to how you can't see that...o-o

[Uzra]

Cool guys. I can agree to disagree.

PvP is balanced enough: 2
PvP is not balanced enough: 1
PvP is the least important: 2
PvP is the most important: 1

Interesting correlation tho.

Can we set up surveys on these forums?

[Uzra]

If you read that post, the one before me, you see that really what he was talking about was non-rainbow underpowernss.

So seems like you are in agreement.

Also, are you saying that you like poker vs computers more than poker vs humans?  I didn't understand the relevance.

[Uzra]

His Poker vs. Chess comparison was to show how he likes chess, which requires no luck and all strategy, better than poker, which requires both luck and a good poker face. Brian was simply using an analogy.

Umm.. Firstly, in an analogy there are two things analogous to two other things, like if Joe were a cat and I were a bird then the situation would be like this...  Secondly, so what? my question was about the relevance.  He didn't just say it out of the blue, he had a point, which I don't yet see.

[Uzra]

His comparison of chess and poker is showing how he prefers strategy over luck. He's stating his own personal preference, which may not be relevent to the thread's topic, but his comparison is relevent to his preference. I'm a little stumped as to how you can't see that...o-o

"I prefer more strategy / less luck in games.  Like chess instead of poker"

No I still don't see an analogy.  I might see a simile...

I disagree.

And because there's people like me who likes farming gods per se, and there's people like you who think PvP is "the why", that I insist that any discussion regarding rainbow power MUST make clear distinction between the two worlds, because it would be bad to break one in order to fix the other.

So.. do you plan to collect gold after you have all the upgrades you want?  Do you think gods are the best way to get rare cards?  Do you have no other "why"?

It's not just my opinion, It's based on observations from every other game that can be palyed PvP and PvE

Warcraft,
Starcraft
Diablo
World of warcraft
Zening
Guild wars
warhammer
last chaos
Chronicles of spellborn
Aion
global agenda
Eve online
etc etc

I'm sorry but It's the driving factor behind long-term dedicated players for everything I've ever seen.