Theory of a New Element

[Hyroen]

Direct quote taken from a thread suggesting a new element, Void:
While I'm not a fan of the idea of new elements being introduced I am a fan of creativity.

New elements have been suggested here and if anything it would certainly shake the community if there would be a week where there would be a chance to win rare cards of a new element, possibly Void, from FGs.

Obviously these cards would need to be balanced and perhaps not cost new quanta but perhaps cost quanta as well as requiring health to be payed.

It would definitely mean a peak in activity in terms of the game as everyone would be longing for these cards, but as they would cost quanta and a bit of health, FGs could use them easily.

Just throwing the idea out there.
Could you see a new element being added somehow? If so, how?

What new element would you like to see added?

Is it too early for a new element?

[Kamietsu]

No new element. Ever. It would rattle the game way too much and cause way too many changes in the game. The layout would need some adjusting for almost every screen. And the Oracle would have to be redone to include a 13th star sign.

[1world24]

No new element but just switch this with other and add cards to it.

[Nepycros]

Personally, I adore the concept of 2 new elements, Conscious and Subconscious, or as my friend has renamed it, Mind and Psyche. The reason I feel they could be new elements is because they are not a force governed by any other element (I don't like giving credit).

Mind is the direct contact someone has with the world. It is the ability to acknowledge the world using 5 senses, and carries the memories and knowledge you need to use every day. Properties of this include active body control, memory manipulation, advanced problem solving, and emotions.

Psyche is the layer below the Mind, in which your entire character is formed. Your personality, repressed memories, your instincts, all are found here. It allows one to react impulsively. Properties include personality, repressed memories, and impulse.

My argument for why they do not belong in Life is because Life is a class of beings that grow, reproduce, and feed on energy. However, it does not cover Sentient thought. Some could even say that these 2 ideas belong in Aether, because they are psionic, and the "soul" may exist on another plane altogether. In my own opinion, your Mind and Psyche are all you've got, but that's another story...

These 2 elements go in neither Life, nor Aether. They also don't fit in any other element, though varied examples of Mind and Psyche could be applied in each element.

All the other elements offer explanations for the natural events in the universe: the patterns that all matter and substance takes. Even Entropy follows this pattern, because the interaction of atoms and electrons influence the universe in certain ways, and manipulates how and when Entropic reactions occur.

If I roll a boulder down a hill, it will land in a certain place. If I reset all the variables identical to the previous, and roll the boulder again, it will land in the same place. Why? Because it follows a pattern, and is incapable of breaking the pattern.

Humans are different. If I roll a human (or any sentient creature) down a hill, they will always manipulate the location they land in, because they are constantly defying the pattern of the universe by flailing about. Our minds allow us to break free from the pattern of the universe, and manipulate variables in whatever way we want. Therefore, our minds are not part of the pattern the rest of the universe follows.

Mind and Psyche are not, IMO, part of Life. As I stated before, Life denotes the ability to grow and reproduce. But without Mind and Psyche, Life will follow the same pattern as the rest of the universe (plants). With Mind and Psyche, we have sentient beings that break the pattern of the universe. This is why I feel Mind and Psyche, if anything, should become at least a part of the game.

Because I understand a new element is very rattling (I was ninja'd just before posting), I understand that change probably will not happen. If so, then maybe Mind and Psyche can be a part of a series that denotes all the elements. I'm sure applying Mind and Psyche to other elements can create fantastic results.

If nothing else, Mind and Psyche can be a branch of Other.

[Flayne]

i agree that too much changes would be needed for such an addition but besides that.
 i would wanna see "electricity or lightning" added as an individual element despite the "thunderstorm or lightning cards already in the game" think about it:

Electricity is something we have great power of because we can generate it on our own, but that doesn´t mean its artificial because it also exists in nature in the form of lightning. electricity already existed, we just use it to a greater extent, but why isn´t that considered as an Element of nature?

[Ekki]

I can't imagine it.
I really doubt Zanz will ever do it, unless he is desperate or the idea is really clear... And I doubt both can happen in the future.
I once thought about the idea of adding new elements, and some stuff can come out. But the problems are that:
-Every element needs its "counter-element", like Water-Fire, so you will have to add 2 elements at least.
-The elements are grouped in groups of 4 (see the interview with Zanz (http://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php/topic,20705.msg282516#msg282516)), as "The Core Four" (Fire, Water, Earth, Air), "Omnious Forces"/"Space elements"/a fancier name (Gravity, Aether, Entropy, Time) and "Celestial" (Life, Death, Light, Darkness). Dunno exactly about the names, but new elements would have to be at least 4, or 6 if they are 2 for each group.
-Metagame redesign.
-It would have to fill a space the other elements left... Good luck finding it
At least...

Even though, IMO, "Other" could have a counter-element (Void?), as another face of non-elementalism (actually, it's non-existence vs existence/Other vs Void).
I guess Zanz can be versatile if the proposal is logical, thus it takes in account what have been done and adds something that has been forgotten. I personally support Void as a new element, but that's another problem

Also, Nepy ninja'd me, I would add Mind and Psyche, along with Good and Evil (needs better names) into a new group, "Soul/Sentient elements". But that's too much of a change to the game, so I don't think it's neccessary.

[vrt]

Also, you know what Counter Strike needs? Aliens. And weapons that shoot laser beams.



Seriously. Don't touch the core of a game.

[Rutarete]

Also, Nepy ninja'd me, I would add Mind and Psyche, along with Good and Evil (needs better names) into a new group, "Soul/Sentient elements". But that's too much of a change to the game, so I don't think it's neccessary.

I don't think good and evil should be added. even with different names, it's still mostly the same thing - the new name- but really because that's getting way too opinional

[ZephyrPhantom]

Here are my thoughts on a new element, and "pseudo-elements" that are Other cards but have the base requirements to be an element.  (BTW Nepycros, there's a certain person/group that helped you develop Concious and Subconcious, Oboitokei!)

The first thing that one would realize is that we'd have try to introduce two new elements, because in this game every element has an element theorectically directly opposing it.  That is possible, consider the Blood Element (thought up by Patch and introduced as a series for Other) could have an opposing element with the opposite concept (raising max HP and lowering Current HP as opposed to Blood lowering Max HP in exhange for healing Current HP).  Void on the other hand, would have problems with such an opposite element, and while it could function as a "standalone element", it doesn't ring that well with the way the game works.

Now, with gameplay issues:
The best way to introduce a new element is to introduce it by itself, or synenergyzing only with it's opposing element.  Give the element some bare basics (mark,nymph, quanta production, a dragon, a CC or PC spell, and a small hitter) and see how the community reacts. Once that is done, you can flesh out the concept of the element more and introduce more cards.

A new element isn't a bad idea, but it'd take a lot of work to code in and that might be asking a little much from Zanz, seeing as how he's got ideas for ingame "professions" that allow you to craft your own cards.  I've seen both Blood and Void, and they would both be awesomesauce as individual elements, but for now... it just doesn't seem right to introduce a new element(s). Yet. 

(especially considering the huge burden of code that would be to Zanz)


However, this brings me to the point of "Pseudo-Elements" - series that could be an element, but they are Other instead. Why does Other exist? To provide a category for cards that don't fit within the other elements in general.  Even if suggested elements cannot make it into the game, their cards potentially could exist as a series of cards in Other, and they would still rock.

That being said, introduction of a new category isn't necessarily bad (Synchro Summon cards in Yugioh were actually pretty good and introduced new strategies), but it needs to be implemented with caution (an upcoming category in said game, Exceed Summon cards, sounds cool but is actually very broken upon close observation of the mechanic).


In conclusion, yes, it's a bit too early to introduce a new element (look at MTG - they have only 5 categories this whole time and they're doing pretty good, however Yugioh in comparison managed to introduce the Synchro category without breaking the game).  Could it come in the near future? Maybe.
I think I'd rather develop the current elements more first with new Mechanics and such before we take the big step of adding a new element. 



*Oboitokei - japanese for "Remember that!"

[Time_lord_victorius]

two new elements to go against each other... that would be a game changer...IM IN!

[Nepycros]

The 12 elements are designed to have the basic format of all existence in the universe. It is believed that no physical concept exists outside of these 12... But noone thought of Thought.

The mind is something not bound by elements.

Even if Mind and Psyche don't become elements, I still support them being added as a series to all the different elements.

[Kamietsu]

Well, whether you acknowledge it or not,  is still the main support for thought. Without life, there is nothing to think, no thoughts to be formed.