The Morality of Rare Farms in Top50

[ajm6]

I have to agree with PuppyChow on this if you make T50 lose the cards when someone wins them in slots, then I would expect T50 to be full of decks containing only pillars so that they don't have to risk losing anything. Personally I don't think there should be rare farms, rares are supposed to be rare, winning a rare before I knew there were farms was a lot more fulfilling than winning one from a farm that is easy to beat. That being said if farms were taken away it would throw off game balance especially with respect to SoGs because it would be unfair to new players who had to donate to get an SoG whereas players who had been here longer were able to get them for free from farms.

[Delreich]

Rare farms have existed for a loooooong time, and Zanz has know about the rare farm exploit for a loooooong time.  The only way to make a card rare with the current slot system is to make it not show up in T50 slots.

I can think of at least one other way, though that would take some extra resources. However, I'd rather not see that happen.

I don't see the point of making cards rare unless they can be gotten some other way (like nymphs from nymph's tears), especially when it's something as significant as weapons.
Way to go screw over newbies just because they are new, when they pick a weapon from the quest that then turns out to be not that good.
Rares also make balancing hell. You can't make the FGs easy enough to take on without rares or they will be too easy for those who have the right rares.
You can make them hard enough that certain rares are all but required, but then you screwed over the newbies who picked the "wrong" weapon even more (in a world with no rare farms).

As long as essential cards remain rare, I'd say rare farms are absolutely necessary. Yes, you can grind elders forever and ever and get your eternity and pulverizer that way, but... seriously?

[jmizzle7]

I think the booster pack thing would be neat, and could also be implemented in a limited playing format like booster draft (one of my favorites!). I think electrum is just too redundant to make it worth the effort. What I propose is a complete makeover of the random PvP system, getting rid of the scaled scoring system and awarding PvP points to the winner. You could then redeem PvP points for packs or other stuff. This would provide lots of incentive to play PvP and would open up many new gameplay possibilities.

[PuppyChow]

I think the booster pack thing would be neat, and could also be implemented in a limited playing format like booster draft (one of my favorites!). I think electrum is just too redundant to make it worth the effort. What I propose is a complete makeover of the random PvP system, getting rid of the scaled scoring system and awarding PvP points to the winner. You could then redeem PvP points for packs or other stuff. This would provide lots of incentive to play PvP and would open up many new gameplay possibilities.

Sorry, misread your idea.

[Status: Misconception]
Just a few problems with that idea:

-Newbs would have a hard time getting going, even if they were paired with relatively new people (since even a slightly altered starter deck is probably much better than a starter deck). And if a newb chose the wrong element, he/she would have an even larger hill to climb.

-If it were booster packs, it would be much harder to get those cards you need. I like being able to sell/buy cards as I need them. (ie trading in my unupped earth/time for an upgraded card cause I'm in that mood). With this system I couldn't do that and you would need to be *much* more careful with your cards.

-How would upgrades work? It would probably take a lot longer to grind for them since you would have to buy them with these points.

-What if I REALLY want a lava golem? So I would have to "redeem" booster packs until I finally got one? Doesn't seem fair. I could end up buying enough booster packs that I could have upgraded a card. All for a little lava golem.

All these problems would be fixed by having pvp points as you say, but using them in conjunction with electrum. Electrum would still be there and still be the same.
[Misconception Status: Complete]

But there would be another option besides the bazaar, maybe the "marketplace." Here you could redeem your pvp points for electrum (certain multiplier), a booster pack, maybe even rares.

Booster packs would be *completely* random. Maybe you get a rare and some normal cards, or maybe you get unlucky and get lots of pillars. They would basically be a gamble.

[jmizzle7]

To paraphrase what I said in chat... You misunderstood me, which is understandable because I could have said the phrase below a bit better.

I think electrum is just too redundant to make it worth the effort.

What I mean is for booster packs, purchases with electrum would be more of the same, which is just boring and uninspired. PvP points would be an extra incentive to play random PvP, apart from the electrum system, the bazaar, and PvE play.

[TheMadEvil]

I love the idea of boosters, that's one thing I miss the most about CCGs. I don't have a lot of time to play PvP, though, only maybe a few minutes here and there. Most of my games are spent playing a few turns and then leaving the comp for a while to come back and finish the game later.

I am in favor of spending electrum for boosters, say 300-400e for a booster of 5 cards, with the chance of 1 rare? 700 for 10 cards with the chance of 2 rares?
Then you could still have the bazaar, just increase the cost of each card to offset for the inclusion of boosters (we want to reward people for wanting boosters, not for purchasing singles, right?)

I also would like to propose some sort of advertising bonus if possible - click on a banner, get 50e off a pack of boosters, once a day...

[plastiqe]

As long as essential cards remain rare, I'd say rare farms are absolutely necessary. Yes, you can grind elders forever and ever and get your eternity and pulverizer that way, but... seriously?

This.
 
Rare farms may not be ideal but as long is it is all we got I can see why people are voting for it.

Booster drafts and pvp points sould like they'd be fun, but lets not get ahead of ourselves.. that sounds like a lot of work to come up with brand new features to distribute rares.  An easier band-aid fix (besides selling rares for electrum) could be re-doing the level 3 Elders so each one had like 2 copies of a rare in it.

[Diabriel]

What about the removal of AI controlled pvp all together in addition to the pvp point reward system?
For the people who are against the thought of farms this is a bit of a fix, who wants to play as a farm?

[jmizzle7]

As long as essential cards remain rare, I'd say rare farms are absolutely necessary. Yes, you can grind elders forever and ever and get your eternity and pulverizer that way, but... seriously?

This.
 
Rare farms may not be ideal but as long is it is all we got I can see why people are voting for it.

Booster drafts and pvp points sould like they'd be fun, but lets not get ahead of ourselves.. that sounds like a lot of work to come up with brand new features to distribute rares.  An easier band-aid fix (besides selling rares for electrum) could be re-doing the level 3 Elders so each one had like 2 copies of a rare in it.

Get ahead of ourselves? Every single rare except for Lobotomizer can already be won from level 3. If my Booster Pack idea were to be implemented, rares could also be won from packs. If zanz ever makes enough rares, there could be one rare per pack. Until then, it would have to be random. I don't think it's too much work at all. And besides, it's more than just a way to distribute rares.

What about the removal of AI controlled pvp all together in addition to the pvp point reward system?
For the people who are against the thought of farms this is a bit of a fix, who wants to play as a farm?

...What?

[Diabriel]

The top 50.

I suppose I  should read more and skim less.
You already expressed the idea of removing the scaled scoring system so the "top 50" wouldn't exist anyway.

[jmizzle7]

No, top 50 would exist. I don't know what you are talking about. My proposal addresses random PvP only. The way random PvP is currently set up, there is a scoring scale so that lower score players gain more score if their opponent has a much higher score than them. If I recall correctly, the higher score player loses more score if (s)he loses to a player with a low score (I could be wrong). My proposal would remove this variable scoring system and replace it with a fixed scoring system*, also awarding PvP points to players to spend on packs. Even further down the road, packs could be used in booster draft tournaments for nice prizes.

[Diabriel]

Ah alright, I misunderstood.  I read it as removing the scoring system all together.

I blame sleep deprivation, excessive quantities of coffee, and just plain ignorance.  -_- *facepalm*