Post by: majofa on March 04, 2013, 07:08:29 pm
With an optimal draw, what elements can win faster than others... say in 5 or 6 turns?
How much of a difference do upped cards make between the Elements.
For this study:
It will be assumed that the test deck goes first.
There will be no resistance from the opponent, who will have 100 HP.
There will be no use of Mutation, Chaos Seed, or Pandemonium to get super-mutations or TUs.
For Entropy: With and without Chaos Power will be included.
No 'Other' cards.
-possibly anything else I've missed-
Unupped (No Shards or RNG)
| ELEMENT | TURNS | DAMAGE |
| Life | 5 | 100 |
| Fire | 6 | 138 |
| Air | 6 | 126 |
| Time | 6 | 123 |
| Earth | 6 | 120 |
| Darkness | 6 | 115 |
| Death | 6 | 115 |
| Gravity | 6 | 113 |
| Entropy | 6 | 110 |
| Aether | 6 | 108 |
| Water | 6 | 102 |
| Light | 7 | 99+ |
Post by: Fippe94 on March 04, 2013, 07:10:06 pm
Post by: majofa on March 04, 2013, 07:11:02 pm
Also, list the card order of the draw, and a description of the plays and damage.
Post by: nilsieboy on March 04, 2013, 07:26:52 pm
Post by: ARTHANASIOS on March 04, 2013, 07:32:55 pm
Also, :fire in unupped meta has Ash Eater & Immolation & Lava Golem, which is 3 cards and 7 :fire quanta plus and deals 5 damage per turn plus +2 per turn for 1 :earth quanta powered by a Mark of Earth alone. This combo can be relatively easily performed even at second turn and seems faster than a regular Adrenafrog tactic.
Water ( :water ) can have a fair rush with Toadfish and Time ( :time ) with GotP, but they don't have any buffs in-element, so they fall behind imo.
Death ( :death ) is also very fast and it has one of the fastest AI3 grinders.
Air ( :air ) may has Dive and Sky Blitz for extra damage, but in unupped meta it has relatively expensive creatures, dive is an expensive ability and sky blitz is even more expensive.
Earth ( :earth ) with a Mark of Time has 8 damage per turn by sacrificing 2 turns & 3 :earth & 1 :time & 1 card, which I find quite awesome.
Light ( :light ) can rush with a Mark of Air and by buffing a Pegasus with Blessings and using Diving, but it is somewhat expensive and a bit slow.
Entropy ( :entropy ) is just too expensive to rush unupped. 5 :entropy for 5 atk is just not good enough; other elements have more cost-effective options and rush faster.
Darkness ( :darkness) is strong but slow, though a lot of Devourers played early can provide you with enough quanta to summon a couple of Black Dragons. But still, too much for 10 damage per turn.
Aether ( :aether ) is just too damn expensive and unupped things are even worse.
Gravity ( :gravity ) in unupped metagame just can't rush as fast as every other element out there.
In my point of view, in unupped meta we have :life, :death and :fire for the fastest ones. I may later write my opinion about upped meta too...
Post by: kev on March 04, 2013, 07:40:23 pm
| Turn | Draw | Play | Damage | Cumulative |
| 1 | 5 pills, 2 frogs | 5 pills | 0 | 0 |
| 2 | 1 adren | 1 frog, 1 adren | 12 | 12 |
| 3 | 1 adren | 1 frog, 1 adren | 24 | 36 |
| 4 | 1 frog | 1 frog | 27 | 63 |
| 5 | 1 dragon | 1 dragon | 37 | 100 |
Edited because maj pointed out my original example mathfail.
maj, are 'Other' cards okay?
Post by: 10 men on March 04, 2013, 07:50:02 pm
Post by: majofa on March 04, 2013, 07:50:36 pm
6 turns for Aether, maybe it can be faster?
Also, without Shards need to be shown.
[[1]]
Aether Pillar
Aether Pillar
Aether Pillar
Aether Pillar
Phase Spider
Shard of Wisdom
Shard of Wisdom
-
[0+5=5aether]4x Aether Pillar + Aether Mark
[HAND = Phase Spider, Shard of Wisdom, Shard of Wisdom]
=
[[2]]
(Shard of Wisdom)
[5-3=2aether]->Phase Spider (4/2)
[2-2=0aether]->Shard of Wisdom -> Phase Spider (8/2)
-
[100-8=92hp]Phase Spider (8/2)
[0+5=5aether]4x Aether Pillar + Aether Mark
[HAND = Shard of Wisdom, Shard of Wisdom]
=
[[3]]
(Shard of Wisdom)
[5-2=3aether]->Shard of Wisdom -> Phase Spider (12/2)
[3-2=1aether]->Shard of Wisdom -> Phase Spider (16/2)
-
[92-16=76hp]Phase Spider (16/2)
[1+5=6aether]4x Aether Pillar + Aether Mark
[HAND = Shard of Wisdom]
=
[[4]]
(Shard of Wisdom)
[6-2=4aether]->Shard of Wisdom -> Phase Spider (20/2)
[4-2=2aether]->Shard of Wisdom -> Phase Spider (24/2)
-
[76-24=52hp]Phase Spider (24/2)
[2+5=7aether]4x Aether Pillar + Aether Mark
[HAND = N/A]
=
[[5]]
(Parallel Universe)
[7-7=0aether]->Parallel Universe -> Phase Spider (24/2)
-
[52-24=28hp]Phase Spider (24/2)
[28-24=4hp]Phase Spider (24/2)
[0+5=5aether]4x Aether Pillar + Aether Mark
[HAND = N/A]
=
[[6]]
(Lightning Bolt)
[5-2=3aether]->Lightning Bolt -> [4-5=0hp]
kev's format might be better though.. (In turn 4, you played a frog and it seems to have added 5 damage)
Aether Pillar
Aether Pillar
Aether Pillar
Aether Pillar
Phase Spider
Shard of Wisdom
Shard of Wisdom
-
[0+5=5aether]4x Aether Pillar + Aether Mark
[HAND = Phase Spider, Shard of Wisdom, Shard of Wisdom]
=
[[2]]
(Shard of Wisdom)
[5-3=2aether]->Phase Spider (4/2)
[2-2=0aether]->Shard of Wisdom -> Phase Spider (8/2)
-
[100-8=92hp]Phase Spider (8/2)
[0+5=5aether]4x Aether Pillar + Aether Mark
[HAND = Shard of Wisdom, Shard of Wisdom]
=
[[3]]
(Shard of Wisdom)
[5-2=3aether]->Shard of Wisdom -> Phase Spider (12/2)
[3-2=1aether]->Shard of Wisdom -> Phase Spider (16/2)
-
[92-16=76hp]Phase Spider (16/2)
[1+5=6aether]4x Aether Pillar + Aether Mark
[HAND = Shard of Wisdom]
=
[[4]]
(Shard of Wisdom)
[6-2=4aether]->Shard of Wisdom -> Phase Spider (20/2)
[4-2=2aether]->Shard of Wisdom -> Phase Spider (24/2)
-
[76-24=52hp]Phase Spider (24/2)
[2+5=7aether]4x Aether Pillar + Aether Mark
[HAND = N/A]
=
[[5]]
(Parallel Universe)
[7-7=0aether]->Parallel Universe -> Phase Spider (24/2)
-
[52-24=28hp]Phase Spider (24/2)
[28-24=4hp]Phase Spider (24/2)
[0+5=5aether]4x Aether Pillar + Aether Mark
[HAND = N/A]
=
[[6]]
(Lightning Bolt)
[5-2=3aether]->Lightning Bolt -> [4-5=0hp]
Post by: TribalTrouble on March 04, 2013, 08:05:43 pm
Post by: majofa on March 04, 2013, 08:13:54 pm
maj, are 'Other' cards okay?They are not.
Post by: Elbirn on March 04, 2013, 08:48:02 pm
Post by: TribalTrouble on March 04, 2013, 09:39:46 pm
Post by: majofa on March 04, 2013, 09:47:33 pm
Now that I think it over, if you're allowed perfect RNG luck, Sofree > All. :(Well, we're trying to remove 'Luck' from this, but I'd still like to see how fast Air is with and without Shards.
Also, the reason Life is one of the fastest is also the reason why it's one of the weakest. Losing 2 cards from a dead adrenaFrog can hurt a lot.
Post by: Elbirn on March 04, 2013, 10:54:32 pm
| Turn | Draw | Play | Damage | Cumulative |
| 01 | 1 Obsidian Tower, 2 Dark Pendulum, 2 Gargoyle, 1 Bloodsucker, 1 Vampire | 1 Obsidian Tower, 2 Dark Pendulum, 1 Bloodsucker | 3 | 3 |
| 02 | 1 Eclipse | 1 Gargoyle | 10 | 13 |
| 03 | 1 Vampire | Eclipse | 14 | 27 |
| 04 | 1 Dark Pendulum | 1 Dark Pendulum, 1 Gargoyle | 23 | 50 |
| 05 | 1 Dark Pendulum | 1 Dark Pendulum, 1 Vampire | 29 | 79 |
| 06 | 1 Obsidian Tower | 1 Obsidian Tower, 1 Vampire | 35 | 114 |
| 07 | --- | --- | --- | --- |
| 08 | --- | --- | --- | --- |
| 09 | --- | --- | --- | --- |
| 10 | --- | --- | --- | --- |
So there's my attempt at an upped mono darkness, will edit this post if I get anything better. Important question btw. Is the opponent's hand to be considered empty or full? In my case, I gave a detailed breakdown of a game played in trainer against an AI with an all pillar deck. At one point I was considering packing nightmares, as they'd do 16 damage all in one go. I removed them as I figured it wouldn't be very fair.
Also, for future testers, here, have a template. Originally by Kev, I just prettied it up and made it blank.
| Turn | Draw | Play | Damage | Cumulative |
| 01 | --- | --- | --- | --- |
| 02 | --- | --- | --- | --- |
| 03 | --- | --- | --- | --- |
| 04 | --- | --- | --- | --- |
| 05 | --- | --- | --- | --- |
| 06 | --- | --- | --- | --- |
| 07 | --- | --- | --- | --- |
| 08 | --- | --- | --- | --- |
| 09 | --- | --- | --- | --- |
| 10 | --- | --- | --- | --- |
Post by: majofa on March 04, 2013, 11:09:31 pm
| Turn | Draw | Play | Damage | Cumulative |
| 1 | 5 Obsidian Tower 1 Gargoyle 1 Bloodsucker | 5 Obsidian Tower 1 Gargoyle | 7 | 7 |
| 2 | 1 Eclipse | 1 Eclipse 1 Bloodsucker | 14 | 21 |
| 3 | 1 Gargoyle | 1 Gargoyle | 23 | 47 |
| 4 | 1 Gargoyle | 1 Gargoyle | 32 | 79 |
| 5 | 1 Gargoyle | 1 Gargoyle | 41 | 120 |
Beat ya by a turn :P
(I guess we'll use overkill as a tiebreaker)
Post by: Chapuz on March 04, 2013, 11:54:38 pm
Post by: dragonsdemesne on March 05, 2013, 12:45:31 am
| Turn | Draw | Play | Damage | Cumulative |
| 1 | 6 Damselfly 1 Air Tower | 6 Damselfly 1 Air Tower | 2x6 | 12 |
| 2 | Elite Wyrm | Elite Wyrm | 2x6 + 5 = 17 | 29 |
| 3 | Elite Wyrm | Elite Wyrm, Dive on 1st wyrm | 2x6 + 5 + 5x2 = 27 | 56 |
| 4 | Sky Blitz | Dive 2x wyrms, sky blitz | 2x6x2 + 5x2x2 + 5x2x2 = 64 | 120 |
4 turns! :) I win a cookie?
edit: corrected math as per majofa's observations
Post by: Absol on March 05, 2013, 12:49:35 am
| Turn | Draw | Play | Damage | Cumulative |
| 01 | 6 Burning Pillar, 1 Phoenix | 6 Burning Pillar | 0 | 0 |
| 02 | 1 Phoenix | Phoenix | 7 | 7 |
| 03 | 1 Phoenix | Phoenix | 14 | 21 |
| 04 | 1 Phoenix | Phoenix | 21 | 42 |
| 05 | 1 Phoenix | Phoenix | 28 | 70 |
| 06 | 1 Phoenix | Phoenix | 35 | 105 |
| 07 | --- | --- | --- | --- |
| 08 | --- | --- | --- | --- |
| 09 | --- | --- | --- | --- |
| 10 | --- | --- | --- | --- |
What is this madness?!
Also, a handy template (better than quoting Elbirn's post:)
Code: [Select]
[table]
[tr][td]Turn[/td][td]Draw[/td][td]Play[/td][td]Damage[/td][td]Cumulative[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]01[/td][td]---[/td][td]---[/td][td]---[/td][td]---[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]02[/td][td]---[/td][td]---[/td][td]---[/td][td]---[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]03[/td][td]---[/td][td]---[/td][td]---[/td][td]---[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]04[/td][td]---[/td][td]---[/td][td]---[/td][td]---[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]05[/td][td]---[/td][td]---[/td][td]---[/td][td]---[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]06[/td][td]---[/td][td]---[/td][td]---[/td][td]---[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]07[/td][td]---[/td][td]---[/td][td]---[/td][td]---[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]08[/td][td]---[/td][td]---[/td][td]---[/td][td]---[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]09[/td][td]---[/td][td]---[/td][td]---[/td][td]---[/td][/tr]
[tr][td]10[/td][td]---[/td][td]---[/td][td]---[/td][td]---[/td][/tr]
[/table]Post by: dragonsdemesne on March 05, 2013, 12:57:34 am
Post by: Elbirn on March 05, 2013, 01:03:45 am
Fire can probably do even faster if you can use shard of bravery and you assume your opponent is just dumping pillars or something. I'll try to think of a fast unupped one and if there's a better one than 4 turns air.
I don't feel that's entirely fair, as a real opponent wouldn't have a dumped hand at all times. Granted we're throwing fairness out the window when we assume no resistance from an opponent. Like I asked earlier, a ruling on whether or not opponent's hands should be empty or full should be made.
...Cuz if empty, I'm totes gonna make an even faster mono dark with nightmares against an opponent running nothing but dark pillars. 16 instant damage spell cards? Yes please.
Post by: majofa on March 05, 2013, 01:08:09 am
Post by: dragonsdemesne on March 05, 2013, 01:35:31 am
Monowater Upped
| Turn | Draw | Play | Damage | Cumulative |
| 01 | 6 Water Tower 1 Nymph's Tears | 6 Tower(6) 1 Tears(0) (5 tower in play)(6 :water at EOT) | 6 | 6 |
| 02 | Water Tower | Water Tower(7), use queen ability(3) (5 tower, 2 nymph in play)(9 :water EOT) | 12 | 18 |
| 03 | Water Tower | Water Tower(10), use queen ability twice(2) (4 tower, 4 nymph in play) (7 :water EOT) | 24 | 42 |
| 04 | Water Tower | Water Tower(8), use queen ability twice(0) (3 tower, 6 nymph in play)(4 :water EOT) | 36 | 78 |
| 05 | doesn't matter | use queen ability once(0)(2 tower 7 nymph in play) | 42 | 120 |
Not as good as the air one, but still pretty fast. It's also much less RNG dependent than any of the other ones listed, since this deck might have 6x nymph's tears 24x water tower.
Post by: furballdn on March 05, 2013, 02:38:54 am
| Turn | Draw | Play | Damage | Cumulative |
| 01 | Bone Tower Bone Tower Bone Tower Flesh Recluse Bone Tower Bone Tower Arsenic | Towers Arsenic Flesh recluse | 10 | 10 |
| 02 | Flesh Recluse | Flesh Recluse | 17 | 27 |
| 03 | Flesh Recluse | Flesh Recluse | 24 | 51 |
| 04 | Ivory Dragon | Ivory Dragon | 36 | 87 |
| 05 | Flesh Recluse | Flesh Recluse | 43 | 130 |
Post by: dragonsdemesne on March 05, 2013, 03:21:57 am
| Turn | Draw | Play | Damage | Cumulative |
| 1 | 5 Time Tower 1 Fate Egg 1 Shard of Readiness | 5 Time Tower 1 Fate Egg 1 Shard of Readiness, hatch into 2 ruby dragon (6 :time EOT) | 30 | 30 |
| 2 | Fate Egg | Fate Egg (3 :time)(10 :time EOT) | 30 | 60 |
| 3 | Shard of Readiness | Play SoR on Egg, get 2x ruby dragon | 60 | 120 |
Yeah, yeah, I know... but he didn't say we couldn't use fate egg :p You can similarly do unupped time in 4 turns. Start with 5 pillar, egg, SoR, play 5 pillar turn 1. Turn 2 draw egg, play egg/sor, get 2 crimson dragon, attack for 24. Turn 3, draw SoR, play egg/sor, get 2 crimson dragon, attack for 48. Turn 4, draw whatever, attack for 48.
Also works for any hatch of at least 13 attack in the upped version and 10 attack in the unupped version. (and some combinations of higher and lower attacks, depending on which is hatched first)
Post by: majofa on March 05, 2013, 03:25:26 am
Post by: furballdn on March 05, 2013, 03:39:50 am
Upped Light
| Turn | Draw | Play | Damage | Cumulative |
| 01 | Light Tower Light Tower Light Tower Light Tower Elite Pegasus Blessing Blessing | Towers Elite Pegasus | 4 | 4 |
| 02 | Blessing | Blessing Blessing | 20 | 24 |
| 03 | Blessing | Blessing Blessing | 32 | 56 |
| 04 | Blessing | Blessing | 38 | 94 |
| 05 | Archangel | Archangel | 45 | 139 |
Post by: majofa on March 05, 2013, 03:41:14 am
Gotta use the same mark also.
Post by: dragonsdemesne on March 05, 2013, 03:50:05 am
Now you have to do it without RNG and also without Shards.
My Upped Air deck still works in 4 turns with that :)
Post by: furballdn on March 05, 2013, 04:00:04 am
Upped Time
| Turn | Draw | Play | Damage | Cumulative |
| 01 | Time Pillar Time Pillar Time Pillar Time Pillar Time Pillar Time Pillar Ghost of the Past | All Pillars | 0 | 0 |
| 02 | Ghost of The Past | GotP | 7 | 7 |
| 03 | GotP | GotP | 14 | 21 |
| 04 | GotP | GotP | 21 | 42 |
| 05 | Time Dragon | Time Dragon | 31 | 73 |
| 06 | Deja Vu | GotP Deja Vu | 39 | 112 |
Post by: majofa on March 05, 2013, 04:10:19 am
| Turn | Draw | Play | Damage | Cumulative |
| 1 | 6 Damselfly 1 Wind Tower | 6 Damselfly 1 Wind Tower | 2x6 | 12 |
| 2 | Elite Wyrm | Elite Wyrm | 2x6 + 5 = 17 | 29 |
| 3 | Sky Dragon | Sky Dragon | 2x6 + 5 + 13 = 30 | 59 |
| 4 | Sky Blitz | Elite Wyrm(Dive), Sky Blitz | 2x6x2 + 5x2x2 + 13x2 = 70 | 129 |
Post by: kimham8a on March 05, 2013, 04:39:19 am
| Turn | Draw | Play | Damage | Cumulative |
| 01 | Amethyst Tower Amethyst Tower Amethyst Tower Sose Sose Sose Sose Sose | All cards but one Sose, end with 15 towers on the board, 16 quanta. | 0 | 0 |
| 02 | Sose | 2 Soses (giving Amethyst dragon + 5 chaos power), Amethyst Dragon, 5 Chaos Power | 37 | 37 |
| 03 | Amethyst Dragon | Amethyst Dragon | 49 | 86 |
| 04 | Amethyst Dragon | Amethyst Dragon | 61 | 147 |
Post by: mesaprotector on March 05, 2013, 05:04:46 am
Turn 1: Draw 1 Burning Tower, 2 Brimstone Gemfinder, 2 Immolation, 3 Lava Destroyer; play everything, deal 21 damage
Turn 2: Draw 1 Minor Phoenix; play it, use 2 destroyers' abilities, deal 29 damage for a total of 50
Turn 3: Draw 1 Burning Tower; play it, deal 29 damage for a total of 79
Turn 4: Draw 1 Lava Destroyer; play it, deal 36 damage for a total of 115.
The draws for turns 3 and 4 are not really necessary.
EDIT:
Turn 1: Draw 2 Burning Tower, 1 Minor Phoenix, 2 Immolation, 3 Lava Destroyer: play everything, deal 21 damage (4 :fire left over for next turn)
Turn 2: Draw 1 Brimstone Gemfinder; play it, use 2 destroyers' abilities, deal 27 damage for a total of 48 (7 :fire left over for next turn)
Turn 3: Draw 1 Lava Destroyer; play it, deal 34 damage for a total of 82 (6 :fire left over for next turn)
Turn 4: Draw 1 Lava Destroyer; play it, deal 41 damage for a total of 123.
Well, I'm getting closer ;)
Post by: majofa on March 05, 2013, 05:09:06 am
Post by: dragonsdemesne on March 05, 2013, 05:24:50 am
Upped Air
Turn Draw Play Damage Cumulative 1 6 Damselfly
1 Air Tower6 Damselfly
1 Air Tower2x6 12 2 Elite Wyrm Elite Wyrm 2x6 + 5 = 17 29 3 Sky Dragon Sky Dragon 2x6 + 5 + 13 = 30 59 4 Sky Blitz Elite Wyrm(Dive), Sky Blitz 2x6x2 + 5x2x2 + 13x2 = 70 129
Nice :) I'm wondering if there's a way to do it as fast or faster with unstable gas and/or blue nymph?
Post by: majofa on March 05, 2013, 05:32:02 am
Post by: mesaprotector on March 05, 2013, 05:57:52 am
:air : 134 damage
:fire : 123 damage
:life : 101 damage
:death : 99 damage
(Also, all of these are calculated going second, because moar damage is better ;))
Post by: majofa on March 05, 2013, 06:04:24 am
How about most damage in 4 turns for each element, no RNG or shards?You aren't reading the OP :(
:air : 134 damage
:fire : 123 damage
:life : 101 damage
:death : 99 damage
(Also, all of these are calculated going second, because moar damage is better ;))
Post by: Acsabi44 on March 05, 2013, 10:02:42 am
Turn2: Lava destroyer (0 :fire) for 15+7= 22 dmg (37 total) (3 :fire)
turn3: grow the destroyer, revive the MPs(1 :fire) for 15+4+4+9= 32 dmg (69 total) (4 :fire)
turn4: play an MP(2 :fire), play a fire lance (1 :fire) and grow the destroyer for 15+4+4+4+11+3=41 dmg (110 total)
well, it could be faster.
Post by: Helston on March 05, 2013, 12:03:06 pm
Upped Life:
| Turn | Draw | Play | Damage | Cumulative |
| 01 | 5 Emerald Towers, 1 Horned Frog, 1 Epinephrine | 5 Emerald Towers, 1 Horned Frog, 1 Epinephrine | 12 | 12 |
| 02 | 1 Mitosis | 1 Mitosis, 1 Horned Frog (Mitosis) | 15 | 27 |
| 03 | 1 Epinephrine | 1 Horned Frog (Mitosis), 1 Epinephrine | 27 | 54 |
| 04 | 1 Epinephrine | 1 Horned Frog (Mitosis), 1 Epinephrine | 39 | 93 |
| 05 | 1 Epinephrine | 1 Horned Frog (Mitosis), 1 Epinephrine | 51 | 144 |
Best I've gotten by turn 4 is 94 cumulative (4 Towers, 2 Giant Frogs, 1 Horned Frog > 1 Epi > 1 Epi > 1 Epi > 1 Giant Frog), but it only makes for 133 total damage.
Post by: Regyptic on March 05, 2013, 01:42:40 pm
| Turn | Draw | Play | Damage | Cumulative |
| 1 | 6 Aether Towers Phase Recluse | 6 Aether Towers Phase Recluse | 7 | 7 |
| 2 | Fractal | Fractal and discard a Recluse | 7 | 14 |
| 3 | Aether Tower | Aether Tower and 2 Recluse | 21 | 35 |
| 4 | Ball Lightning | Ball Lightning and 2 Recluse | 40 | 75 |
| 5 | Ball Lightning | Ball Lightning and 2 Recluse | 54 | 129 |
5 turns without shards. There might be a faster one with SoW/TU but I've only been able get to 97 in 4 turns with this so far.
| Turn | Draw | Play | Damage | Cumulative |
| 1 | 5 Aether Towers Phase Recluse SoW | 5 Aether Towers Phase Recluse | 7 | 7 |
| 2 | SoW | 2 SoW (Recluse at 15 attack) | 15 | 22 |
| 3 | TU | TU | 2*15=30 | 52 |
| 4 | TU | TU | 3*15=45 | 97 |
| 5 | TU | TU | 4*15=60 | 157 |
I have another version which is behind after 4 but has more overkill after 5,
| Turn | Draw | Play | Damage | Cumulative |
| 1 | 4 Aether Towers Phase Recluse 2 SoW | 4 Aether Towers Phase Recluse | 7 | 7 |
| 2 | SoW | 2 SoW (Recluse at 15 attack) | 15 | 22 |
| 3 | SoW | 2 SoW (Recluse at 23 attack) | 23 | 45 |
| 4 | TU | TU | 2*23=46 | 91 |
| 5 | TU | TU | 3*23=69 | 160 |
Post by: Chapuz on March 05, 2013, 01:52:25 pm
Post by: majofa on March 05, 2013, 02:46:40 pm
| Turn | Draw | Play | Damage | Cumulative |
| 1 | 5 Wind Pillar 2 Dragonfly | 5 Wind Pillar | 0 | 0 |
| 2 | Dragonfly | 3 Dragonfly | 1x3 | 3 |
| 3 | Azure Dragon | Azure Dragon | 1x3 + 9 = 12 | 15 |
| 4 | Azure Dragon | Azure Dragon | 1x3 + 9x2 = 21 | 36 |
| 5 | Azure Dragon | Azure Dragon | 1x3 + 9x3 = 30 | 66 |
| 6 | Sky Blitz | Sky Blitz | 1x3(x2) + 9x3(x2) = 60 | 126 |
I'm not sure if Air can get much faster.
Post by: majofa on March 05, 2013, 03:33:48 pm
| Turn | Draw | Play | Damage | Cumulative |
| 1 | 7 Obsidian Pillar | 7 Obsidian Pillar | 0 | 0 |
| 2 | Vampire Stiletto | Vampire Stiletto | 4 | 4 |
| 3 | Black Dragon | Black Dragon | 4 + 10 = 14 | 18 |
| 4 | Black Dragon | Black Dragon | 4 + 10x2 = 24 | 42 |
| 5 | Black Dragon | Black Dragon | 4 + 10x3 = 34 | 76 |
| 6 | Gargoyle | Gargoyle | 4 + 10x3 + 5 = 39 | 115 |
Darkness also takes 6 turns unupped.
Post by: mesaprotector on March 05, 2013, 03:45:40 pm
Unupped Darkness
Turn Draw Play Damage Cumulative 1 7 Obsidian Pillar 7 Wind Pillar 0 0
That's a neat trick. ;)
Post by: Chapuz on March 05, 2013, 04:07:14 pm
| Turn | Draw | Remaining pillars | Remaining quanta | Damage | Cumulative |
| 1 | 7 pillars | 7 | 8 | 0 | 0 |
| 2 | Tears | 6 | 8 | 5 | 5 |
| 3 | Pillar | 6 | 11 | 10 | 15 |
| 4 | Pillar | 5 | 9 | 20 | 35 |
| 5 | Pillar | 4 | 6 | 30 | 65 |
| 6 | Pillar | 4 | 7 | 35 | 100 |
Post by: majofa on March 05, 2013, 04:32:53 pm
| Turn | Draw | Play | Damage | Cumulative |
| 1 | 7 Water Pillar | 7 Water Pillar | 0 | 0 |
| 2 | Nymph's Tears | Nymph's Tears | 5 | 5 |
| 3 | Water Pillar | Water Pillar, NQ ability | 5x2 = 10 | 15 |
| 4 | Water Pillar | Water Pillar, NQ ability(x2) | 5x4 = 20 | 35 |
| 5 | Water Pillar | Water Pillar, NQ ability(x2) | 5x6 = 30 | 65 |
| 6 | Mind Flayer | Mind Flayer, NQ ability | 5x7 + 2 = 37 | 102 |
Found 2 more damage. (Ice Bolt can be drawn instead of Mind Flayer for the same result.)
Unupped Water
| Turn | Draw | Remaining pillars | Remaining quanta | Damage | Cumulative |
| 1 | 7 Water Pillar | 7 | 8 | 0 | 0 |
| 2 | Nymph's Tears | 6 | 8 | 5 | 5 |
| 3 | Pillar | 6 | 11 | 10 | 15 |
| 4 | Pillar | 5 | 9 | 20 | 35 |
| 5 | Pillar | 4 | 6 | 30 | 65 |
| 6 | Mind Flayer | 3 | 4 | 37 | 102 |
Post by: majofa on March 05, 2013, 05:47:33 pm
| Turn | Draw | Play | Damage | Cumulative |
| 1 | 6 Bone Pillar Arsenic | 6 Bone Pillar | 0 | 0 |
| 2 | Mummy | Arsenic Mummy | 2 + 5 = 7 | 7 |
| 3 | Mummy | Mummy | 2(+1) + 5x2 = 13 | 20 |
| 4 | Bone Dragon | Bone Dragon | 2(+2) + 5x2 +10 = 24 | 44 |
| 5 | Mummy | Mummy | 2(+3) + 5x3 +10 = 30 | 74 |
| 6 | Bone Dragon | Bone Dragon | 2(+4) + 5x3 + 10x2 = 41 | 115 |
Same as Darkness.
Post by: majofa on March 05, 2013, 06:20:34 pm
| Turn | Draw | Play | Damage | Cumulative |
| 1 | 7 Stone Pillar | 7 Stone Pillar | 0 | 0 |
| 2 | Shrieker | Shrieker | 8 = 8 | 8 |
| 3 | Shrieker | Shrieker | 8x2 = 16 | 24 |
| 4 | Shrieker | Shrieker | 8x3 = 24 | 48 |
| 5 | Shrieker | Shrieker | 8x4 = 32 | 80 |
| 6 | Shrieker | Shrieker | 8x5 = 40 | 120 |
Probably the most simple of them all. A little stronger than Darkness and Death, but still 6 turns.
Post by: majofa on March 05, 2013, 06:41:50 pm
| Turn | Draw | Play | Damage | Cumulative |
| 1 | 7 Amethyst Pillar | 7 Amethyst Pillar | 0 | 0 |
| 2 | Discord | Discord | 4 = 4 | 4 |
| 3 | Purple Dragon | Purple Dragon | 4 + 10 = 14 | 18 |
| 4 | Purple Dragon | Purple Dragon | 4 + 10x2 = 24 | 42 |
| 5 | Abomination | Abomination | 4 + 10x2 + 5 = 29 | 71 |
| 6 | Purple Dragon | Purple Dragon | 4 + 10x3 + 5 = 39 | 110 |
Comes out to the same damage with 2x Abominations and 3x Purple Dragons, but 2nd turn Discord is just OP.
Post by: Acsabi44 on March 05, 2013, 09:11:44 pm
T1: 5x tower, thunderbolt (5dmg) (fractal in hand)
T2: BL, Fractal, 8xBL (45 dmg, 50 total)
T3: nothing (draw a fractal)
T4: BL, fractal, 8xBL (45dmg, 95 total)
damn, so close. 1quanta short of playing a Lobo instead of the bolt for 105 dmg at turn4.
Can somebody improve it?
If you go second:
T1: 5x tower, thunderbolt, thunderbolt. (10 dmg) (fractal in hand)
T2: BL, Fractal, 8xBL (45 dmg, 55 total)
T3: nothing (draw a fractal)
T4: BL, fractal, 8xBL (45dmg, 100 total)
Post by: majofa on March 05, 2013, 09:34:29 pm
| Turn | Draw | Play | Damage | Cumulative |
| 1 | 5 Burning Pillar Ash Eater Immolation | 5 Burning Pillar | 0 | 0 |
| 2 | Crimson Dragon | Ash Eater(Immolation) Crimson Dragon | 12 = 12 | 12 |
| 3 | Fahrenheit | Fahrenheit | 12 + 6 = 18 | 30 |
| 4 | Crimson Dragon | Crimson Dragon | 12x2 + 5 = 29 | 59 |
| 5 | Lava Golem | Lava Golem | 12x2 + 5 + 5 = 34 | 93 |
| 6 | Phoenix | Lava Golem(Growth) Phoenix | 12x2 + 5 + 7 +7 = 43 | 136 |
Can it get any faster?
And I believe this moves Fire into 2nd place for unupped monos with no RNG or Shards.
Post by: majofa on March 05, 2013, 09:59:51 pm
| Turn | Draw | Play | Damage | Cumulative |
| 1 | 6 Gravity Pillar Graviton Mercenary | 6 Gravity Pillar | 0 | 0 |
| 2 | Acceleration | Graviton Mercenary(Acceleration) | 5^ = 5 | 5 |
| 3 | Titan | Titan | 7^ + 7 = 14 | 19 |
| 4 | Colossal Dragon | Colossal Dragon | 9^ + 7 + 7 = 23 | 42 |
| 5 | Graviton Mercenary | Graviton Mercenary | 11^ + 7 + 7 + 3 = 28 | 70 |
| 6 | Colossal Dragon | Colossal Dragon | 13^ + 7 + 7x2 + 3 = 37 | 107 |
Even (s)lowly Gravity can get a kill in 6 turns!
(Are Catapults/Armagios any faster?)
Post by: majofa on March 05, 2013, 10:07:50 pm
Post by: Faro on March 05, 2013, 10:23:50 pm
| Turn | Draw | Play | Damage | Cumulative |
| 1 | 6 Aether Towers Lobotomizer Ball Lightning | 6 Aether Towers Lobotomizer | 5 | 5 |
| 2 | Fractal (Ball Lightning) | Ball Lightning - Fractal - 7xBall Lightning | 45 | 50 |
| 3 | Phase Recluse | Phase Recluse | 12 | 62 |
| 4 | Fractal | Ball Lightining - Fractal - 8xBall Lightning | 57 | 119 |
Still 4 turns, but... Overkill !!
Post by: mesaprotector on March 05, 2013, 10:53:40 pm
1. Draw 6 light pillars, photon, play 6 light pillars, photon. Do 1 damage. (7 :light left)
2. Draw morning star, play morning star. Do 7 damage, total of 8. (9 :light left)
3. Draw blessing, play blessing on photon. Do 10 damage, total of 18. (13 :light left)
4. Draw golden dragon, play golden dragon. Do 20 damage, total of 38. (8 :light left)
5. Draw blessing, play blessing on photon. Do 23 damage, total of 61. (12 :light left)
6. Draw golden dragon, play golden dragon. Do 33 damage, total of 104.
This probably can be improved. (well, I hope ;))
Post by: majofa on March 05, 2013, 11:07:54 pm
| Turn | Draw | Play | Damage | Cumulative |
| 1 | 6 Gravity Pillar Graviton Mercenary | 6 Gravity Pillar | 0 | 0 |
| 2 | Acceleration | Graviton Mercenary(Acceleration) | 5^ = 5 | 5 |
| 3 | Titan | Titan | 7^ + 7 = 14 | 19 |
| 4 | Catapult | Catapult | 9^ + 7 = 16 | 35 |
| 5 | Armagio | Armagio(>Catapult) | 11^ + 7 + (>20) = 38 | 73 |
| 6 | Armagio | Armagio(>Catapult) | 13^ + 7 + (>20) = 40 | 113 |
More damage for Gravity.
Post by: Raptor6789 on March 05, 2013, 11:12:05 pm
| Turn | Draw | Play | Quanta left | Damage | Cumulative |
| 1 | 5 Gravity Tower, Elite Charger, Overdrive | 5 Gravity Tower, Elite Charger | 6 :gravity | 7 | 7 |
| 2 | Elite Charger | Overdrive on Charger | 8 :gravity | 10 | 17 |
| 3 | Overdrive | Elite Charger | 9 :gravity | 13+7=20 | 37 |
| 4 | Titan | Titan, Overdrive on Charger | 6 :gravity | 16+10+8=34 | 71 |
| 5 | Elite Charger | Elite Charger | 7 :gravity | 19+13+7+8=47 | 118 |
Pretty fast, but maybe Catapult is faster.
EDIT: Forgot we're assuming we go first... I changed that.
Post by: majofa on March 05, 2013, 11:20:40 pm
Inb4 unupped light sucks. Although tbh, it kinda does.Your math is very wrong. :(
1. Draw 6 light pillars, photon, play 6 light pillars, photon. Do 1 damage. (7 :light left)
2. Draw morning star, play morning star. Do 7 damage, total of 8. (9 :light left)
3. Draw blessing, play blessing on photon. Do 10 damage, total of 18. (13 :light left)
4. Draw golden dragon, play golden dragon. Do 20 damage, total of 38. (8 :light left)
5. Draw blessing, play blessing on photon. Do 23 damage, total of 61. (12 :light left)
6. Draw golden dragon, play golden dragon. Do 33 damage, total of 104.
This probably can be improved. (well, I hope ;))
Post by: majofa on March 05, 2013, 11:48:44 pm
| Turn | Draw | Play | Damage | Cumulative |
| 1 | 6 Light Pillar Photon | 6 Light Pillar Photon | 1 = 1 | 1 |
| 2 | Morning Star | Morning Star | 1 + 7 = 8 | 9 |
| 3 | Blessing | Blessing(>Photon) | (4) + 7 = 11 | 20 |
| 4 | Golden Dragon | Golden Dragon | (4) + 7 + 10 = 21 | 41 |
| 5 | Blessing | Blessing(>Photon) | (7) + 7 + 10 = 24 | 65 |
| 6 | Golden Dragon | Golden Dragon | (7) + 7 + 10 = 34 | 99 |
Sooooo close....
Post by: majofa on March 06, 2013, 12:24:10 am
| Turn | Draw | Play | Damage | Cumulative |
| 1 | 7 Time Factory | 7 Time Factory | 0 | 0 |
| 2 | Ghost of the Past | Ghost of the Past | 7 = 7 | 7 |
| 3 | Devonian Dragon | Devonian Dragon | 7 + 10 = 17 | 24 |
| 4 | Ghost of the Past | Ghost of the Past | 7x2 + 10 = 24 | 48 |
| 5 | Devonian Dragon | Devonian Dragon | 7x2 + 10x2 = 34 | 82 |
| 6 | Ghost of the Past | Ghost of the Past | 7x3 + 10x2 = 41 | 123 |
Mindless Rush!
Post by: Regyptic on March 07, 2013, 01:57:28 am
| Turn | Draw | Play | Damage | Cumulative |
| 1 | 5 Aether Towers 2 Ball Lightning | 5 Aether Towers Ball Lightning | 5 | 5 |
| 2 | Fractal | Ball Lightning Fractal(>Ball Lightning) 7xBall Lightning | 8*5=40 | 45 |
| 3 | Electrocutor | Electrocutor | 5 | 50 |
| 4 | Fractal | Ball Lightining Fractal(>Ball Lightning) 8xBall Lightning | 9*5+5=50 | 100 |
4 turns for Aether going first. Pretty sure the quanta works out right.
Post by: rob77dp on March 07, 2013, 05:13:58 am
Unupped Aether
| Turn | Draw | Play | Damage | Cumulative | Quanta Pool |
| 01 | Aether Pillar x6, Lobo | Aether Pillar x6 | 0 | 0 | 7 Aether |
| 02 | Phase Spider | Spider, Lobo | 9 | 9 | 8 Aether |
| 03 | Phase Spider | Spider | 13 | 22 | 12 Aether |
| 04 | Fractal | Fractal (Spider), Discard Spider | 13 | 35 | 7 Aether |
| 05 | Aether Pillar | Pillar, Spider x2 | 21 | 56 | 9 Aether |
| 06 | Aether Pillar | Pillar, Spider x3 | 33 | 89 | 9 Aether |
| 07 | Lightning | Lightning, Spider x2 | 46 | 135 | 10 Aether |
Edited per CuCN comment below... because I did somehow forgot to add Mark quanta production.
Did you forget quanta from the mark?
Upped Aether
| Turn | Draw | Play | Damage | Cumulative | Quanta Pool |
| 01 | Aether Tower x5, BL x2 | Towers, BL x1 | 5 | 5 | 11 Aether |
| 02 | Fractal | BL x1 > Fractal (BL) > BL x7 | 40 | 45 | 6 Aether |
| 03 | Phase Recluse | Phase Recluse | 7 | 52 | 9 Aether |
| 04 | Fractal | BL x1 > Fractal (BL) > BL x8 | 52 | 104 | 6 Aether |
Post by: CuCN on March 07, 2013, 05:51:13 am
Post by: majofa on March 07, 2013, 06:01:19 am
| Turn | Draw | Play | Damage | Cumulative |
| 1 | 6 Aether Pillar Phase Spider | 6 Aether Pillar | 0 | 0 |
| 2 | Lobotomizer | Phase Spider Lobotomizer | 4 + 5 = 9 | 9 |
| 3 | Phase Spider | Phase Spider | 4x2 + 5 = 13 | 22 |
| 4 | Fractal | Fractal(>Phase Spider) Discard(Phase Spider) | 4x2 + 5 = 13 | 35 |
| 5 | Aether Pillar | Aether Pillar 2x Phase Spider | 4x4 + 5 = 21 | 56 |
| 6 | Spark | 3x Phase Spider Spark | 4x7 + 5 + 3 = 36 | 92 |
| 7 | Lightning | 2x Phase Spider Lightning | 4x9 + 5 + (5) = 46 | 138 |
Post by: Kakerlake on March 07, 2013, 08:28:14 am
| Turn | Draw | Damage | Cumulative |
| 1 | 7 Aether Pillar | 0 | 0 |
| 2 | Nymph | 7 | 7 |
| 3 | PU or Nymph | 7x2 = 14 | 21 |
| 4 | PU or Nymph | 7x3 = 21 | 42 |
| 5 | PU or Nymph | 7x4 = 28 | 70 |
| 6 | PU or Nymph | 7x5 = 35 | 105 |
Unupped Light
(mark of Air)
| Turn | Draw | Play | Damage | Cumulative |
| 1 | 6 Pillar, Peggy | Pillars | 0 | 0 |
| 2 | Blessing | Peggy | 3 | 3 |
| 3 | Glory | Glory, Blessing, Dive | 6x2 +7 = 19 | 22 |
| 4 | Blessing | Blessing, Dive | 9x2 +7 = 25 | 47 |
| 5 | Photon | Photon, Dive | 9x2 +7 +1 = 26 | 73 |
| 6 | Photon | Photon, Dive | 9x2 +7 +2 = 27 | 100 |
Post by: Regyptic on March 07, 2013, 11:25:05 am
Upped AetherPhase Recluse costs 4 :aether meaning you only have 8 quanta next turn and can't play Fractal.
Turn Draw Play Damage Cumulative Quanta Pool 01 Aether Tower x5, BL x2 Towers, BL x1 5 5 11 Aether 02 Fractal BL x1 > Fractal (BL) > BL x7 40 45 6 Aether 03 Phase Recluse Phase Recluse 7 52 9 Aether 04 Fractal BL x1 > Fractal (BL) > BL x8 52 104 6 Aether
I've found a slight improvement to the one I posted.
Upped Aether
| Turn | Draw | Play | Damage | Cumulative | Quanta |
| 1 | 5 Aether Towers Phase Salvager Ball Lightning | 5 Aether Towers Phase Salvager | 6 | 6 | 10 :aether |
| 2 | Fractal | Ball Lightning Fractal(>Ball Lightning) 7xBall Lightning | 8*5=40 | 46 | 6 :aether |
| 3 | Electrocutor | Electrocutor | 5 | 51 | 9 :aether |
| 4 | Fractal | Ball Lightining Fractal(>Ball Lightning) 8xBall Lightning | 9*5+5=50 | 101 | 6 :aether |
It turns out Phase Salvagers do have a use - 1 damage overkill!
Post by: rob77dp on March 07, 2013, 03:56:11 pm
| Turn | Draw | Play | Damage | Cumulative | Quanta Pool |
| 1 | Time Tower x6, Ghost(uu) x1 | Towers#1-6, Ghost(uu)#1 | 7*1=7 | 0+7=7 | 0+13-6=7 :time |
| 2 | Ghost(U)#1 | Ghost(U)#1 | 7*1+9*1=16 | 7+16=23 | 7-7+7=7 :time |
| 3 | Ghost(U)#2 | Ghost(U)#2 | 7*1+9*2=25 | 23+25=48 | 7-7+7=7 :time |
| 4 | Ghost(U)#3 | Ghost(U)#3 | 7*1+9*3=34 | 48+34=82 | 7-7+7=7 :time |
| 5 | Ghost(U)#4 | Ghost(U)#4 | 7*1+9*4=43 | 82+43=125 | 7-7+7=7 :time |
*************************
Upped Fire (4.118)
| Turn | Draw | Play | Damage | Cumulative | Quanta Pool |
| 1 | Burning Tower x2, MP x1, Crema x2, Destroyer x2 | Tower(2) >MP >Crema(2) >Destroyer(2) | 7*2=14 | 0+14=14 | 9 :fire |
| 2 | Seraph(U) | act-Destroyer(2), Serpah(U) | 9*2+12=30 | 14+30=44 | 3 :fire |
| 3 | Fahrenheit(U) | Fahrenheit(U) | 9*2+12+5=35 | 44+35=79 | 3 :fire |
| 4a | MP#2 | MP#2 | 9*2+12+5+4=39 | 79+39=118 | 4 :fire |
| 4b | Fire Lance ('cuz theyz kuhl!) | Lance | 9*2+12+(5+1)+3=39 | 79+39=118 | 5 :fire |
***REMOVED DOUBLE POST - OOPS! and below is the contents of what started as double-post***
Unupped Fire
Turn Draw Play Damage Cumulative 1 5 Burning Pillar
Ash Eater
Immolation5 Burning Pillar 0 0 2 Crimson Dragon Ash Eater(Immolation)
Crimson Dragon12 = 12 12 3 Fahrenheit Fahrenheit 12 + 6 = 18 30 4 Crimson Dragon Crimson Dragon 12x2 + 5 = 29 59 5 Lava Golem Lava Golem 12x2 + 5 + 5 = 34 93 6 Phoenix Lava Golem(Growth)
Phoenix12x2 + 5 + 7 +7 = 43 136
Can it get any faster?
And I believe this moves Fire into 2nd place for unupped monos with no RNG or Shards.
Unupped Fire (6.138)
| Turn | Draw | Play | Damage | Cumulative | Quanta Pool |
| 1 | Burning Pillar x7 | Pillars (7) | 0 | 0 | 8 :fire=0+8 |
| 2 | Fahrenheit(uu) | Fahrenheit(uu) | (4+2)=6 | 0+6=6 | 13 :fire=8-3+8 |
| 3 | Crimson Dragon#1 | Dragon#1 | (4+2)+12=18 | 6+18=24 | 11 :fire=13-10+8 |
| 4 | Crimson Dragon#2 | Dragon#2 | (4+1)+12*2=29 | 24+29=53 | 9 :fire=11-10+8 |
| 5 | Seraph(uu) | Seraph(uu) | (4+1)+12*2+10=39 | 53+39=92 | 8 :fire=9-9+8 |
| 6 | Phoenix | Phoenix | (4+1)+12*2+10+7=46 | 92+46=138 | 9 :fire=8-7+8 |
Post by: majofa on March 09, 2013, 01:43:04 am
| Turn | Draw | Play | Damage | Cumulative |
| 1 | 7 Aether Pillar | 7 Aether Pillar | 0 | 0 |
| 2 | Turquoise Nymph | Turquoise Nymph | 7 = 7 | 7 |
| 3 | Turquoise Nymph | Turquoise Nymph | 7x2 = 14 | 21 |
| 4 | Turquoise Nymph | Turquoise Nymph | 7x3 = 21 | 42 |
| 5 | Spark | N/A | 7x3 = 21 | 63 |
| 6 | Fractal | Fractal(>Spark) | 7x3 + 3x8 = 45 | 108 |
Found 3 more damage.