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Offline Lex

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Re: Suggestion for dividing Elements into 4 different groups https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=4126.msg41757#msg41757
« Reply #72 on: March 21, 2010, 01:00:58 am »
Erm... Wait. I see the problem. Some of the elemental groups are screwed up. For example, in the Air zodiac signs there are Gemini and Libra, which represent Aether and Gravity. But those two elements are both Cardinal, and therefore cannot be in the same ally group.
Well, according to my notification Aether is "being" and Gravity is "primordial" so they can be allies :D

;)

But on serious note: zanzarino for sure had something in mind creating such and not other relations between elements and signs.

Offline Bloodshadow

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Re: Suggestion for dividing Elements into 4 different groups https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=4126.msg41761#msg41761
« Reply #73 on: March 21, 2010, 01:06:08 am »
I still disagree with you, Lex. And it seems like everyone had accepted my grouping of the Cardinal elements ;D :P ;)

Zanzarino's mind can be changed. We can try to persuade him. Meanwhile, I'm going to make my own element to zodiac alignments.
To be or not to be, I can do both at once. Go learn quantum mechanics, n00b.

omgarm

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Re: Suggestion for dividing Elements into 4 different groups https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=4126.msg41974#msg41974
« Reply #74 on: March 21, 2010, 04:07:18 pm »
Wow this is a long read. I just came here to say that I think the picture SG posted last (with the 3 rings, 4 ally groups and good/evil division) seems the best to me. Also when I first  saw the  :gravity :time :entropy :aether group "Fundamental" is what came to mind first, so I'll go ahead and support that as well.

Sastrugi

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Re: Suggestion for dividing Elements into 4 different groups https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=4126.msg42057#msg42057
« Reply #75 on: March 21, 2010, 08:00:23 pm »
I finally figured out how to turn a slide into an image file.  :)

The chart is organized into quadrants. The x-axis represents "being" and divides the elements into those that are aligned with Matter, on the left, and those that are aligned with Energy, on the right. The y-axis represents "doing" and divides them into Motion/Force on the top and Structure/Medium on the bottom.

In the four corners are the Cosmic or Fundamental elements,  :aether :time :gravity :entropy. Each could be considered the ultimate expression of the adjacent sides combined.  :gravity is Motion applied to Matter, whereas  :entropy is the direction of Motion applied to Energy.  :aether, representing the spatial dimensions, is the Structure within which Matter resides.  :time is the dimension of Energy in which  :entropy moves.

Inside the white box connecting the Cosmic group are the other two elemental families. On the left, in the Matter section of the chart, is the Material group. These are the classical elements that exist as substances or states of matter.  :air and  :water are aligned with Structure because, like  :aether, each provides a medium through which other things move. These elements also have a lot of similarities and synergies between them;  :air and  :aether both have electrical spells, Water creatures have  :air and  :aether abilities, and the new Shockwave card uses  :air to kill frozen creatures.

 Above these two are :earth and :fire, aligned with Motion. :earth is the result of :gravity (the nearest corner) and is a powerful force that can lift mountains, shift cities, and rip continents apart. :fire is the most energetic of the Material elements and is placed nearer to the center; it is also the force most capable of changing the other three.

To the right are, for lack of a better name, the Spiritual elements.  Each of these represents a presence or absence of energy, represented most purely by  :light and  :darkness. The other pair,  :life and  :death, are energy states as applied to organic matter.  Note that :darkness is closest to :entropy; the end result of entropy is the extinguishing of all light in the universe. :light is therefore closest to time, which sort of makes sense because time slows down for a moving object, and stops entirely if that object reaches the speed of light. Light actually transcends time.

The purple and blue lines connect the elements that I believe have strong orderly or chaotic aspects. The placement is somewhat arbitrary, but I had this neat diagonal thing going on and it sort of works. I consider  :aether chaotic because even though it defines space, most of its cards involve damaging or manipulating the order inherent in that space. :earth is considered orderly because most of its abilities involve defense, preventing damage, or evolving creatures into more organized forms. :water could really go either way, but putting it on the Chaos line would mess up the chart.  ;)

Offline Bloodshadow

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Re: Suggestion for dividing Elements into 4 different groups https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=4126.msg42145#msg42145
« Reply #76 on: March 22, 2010, 12:08:15 am »
Sastrugi's alignments is the most promising-looking one... However, I still want to align the elements with the zodiac signs.

OK, never mind. I just tried, and it didn't work. Especially the part where I tried to align :life :death :light :darkness to the four Mutable signs (Gemini, Virgo, Sagittarius, Pisces).
To be or not to be, I can do both at once. Go learn quantum mechanics, n00b.

Kameda

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Re: Suggestion for dividing Elements into 4 different groups https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=4126.msg42193#msg42193
« Reply #77 on: March 22, 2010, 01:28:08 am »
But the elements are already aligned with the zodiac signs o.o

PuppyChow

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Re: Suggestion for dividing Elements into 4 different groups https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=4126.msg42200#msg42200
« Reply #78 on: March 22, 2010, 01:49:48 am »
What about:

Water, Life, Light: Good
Fire, Death, Dark: Evil
Gravity, Earth, Time: Order
Aether, Entropy, Air: ZOMG Aliens!

The second option, but I changed up the names of the groups.

Offline Bloodshadow

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Re: Suggestion for dividing Elements into 4 different groups https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=4126.msg42219#msg42219
« Reply #79 on: March 22, 2010, 02:11:54 am »
But the elements are already aligned with the zodiac signs o.o
Zanzarino's mind is not immutable and absolute. Godly though he is, his mind can be influenced and changed.
To be or not to be, I can do both at once. Go learn quantum mechanics, n00b.

Kameda

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Re: Suggestion for dividing Elements into 4 different groups https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=4126.msg42261#msg42261
« Reply #80 on: March 22, 2010, 03:28:58 am »
Well, I kinda like it the way Zanzarino choose the zodiac signs.
But I just think that dividing the elements in other way can be more productive. If you stay with the zodiac they will still be separated.

Scaredgirl

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Re: Suggestion for dividing Elements into 4 different groups https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=4126.msg42331#msg42331
« Reply #81 on: March 22, 2010, 09:24:18 am »
The suggestion by Sastrugi is very cool.

I especially like the:

Material:  :air  :earth :fire :water
Spiritual:  :light :darkness :life :death
Cosmic:  :aether :entropy :time :gravity

This is something we should make "official" imo.

Sastrugi

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Re: Suggestion for dividing Elements into 4 different groups https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=4126.msg42619#msg42619
« Reply #82 on: March 23, 2010, 12:55:17 am »
I'm still not happy with the group names.  "Spiritual" seems inaccurate and has too many religious/mystical connotations; I only used it because I hadn't found anything better yet. My OCD is also nagging me to replace "Cosmic" with something that doesn't break the spelling pattern.

How about this:

Physical or Material (pertaining to matter and substance)  :earth :air :fire :water
Modal (pertaining to modes or states of being)  :life :death :light :darkness
Celestial (pertaining to the heavens and outer space)  :aether :time :gravity :entropy

I want to avoid using "Fundamental" because that word is one of the definitions of "element". Saying that some elements are more fundamental than others is crazy talk.

Offline Bloodshadow

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Re: Suggestion for dividing Elements into 4 different groups https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=4126.msg42621#msg42621
« Reply #83 on: March 23, 2010, 01:01:20 am »
To me, the Spiritual elements define the creatures. They represent growth, decay, good, and evil. I don't really see them as energy states.

And I still say we name :aether :time :entropy :gravity the Cardinal elements. The "basic" elements.
To be or not to be, I can do both at once. Go learn quantum mechanics, n00b.

 

anything
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