Suggestion for dividing Elements into 4 different groups

[Lex]

Your 3 "basic groups" make no sense to me.

inner circle:       - group easy to understand
mid circle: explained this group earlier - elements of being - from  to , through till
outer circle: they started everything - primordial elements - from to  ,  from to 

BTW: another proposition of names:

[Bloodshadow]

 
 
 
 

My first attempt...

Lex, I have to disagree with you. I think are the fundamental elements that started the universe, because they symbolize time, space, order, and chaos. and is more related to consciousness, good and evil.

[Deedle]

Oh and don't we already have a sort of a group division: (, , , ) (, , , ) (, , , ). I'm not sure know how these groups would be called, but they all make complete intuitive sense. These elements fit together, even if they are pairs of opposites. On the minus side three groups may mean more trouble planning events (not divisible by two) and this also doesn't take balance into consideration.

I agree that these make intuitive sense, I'd even contemplated suggesting semi-quanta pillars on these in the wiki.
Elemental pillar -> generates 2 random quanta per turn from the elements (, , , )
Balance pillar -> generates 2 random quanta per turn from the elements (, , , )
Power pillar -> generates 2 random qanta per turn from the elements (, , , )

however this idea could be applied to a 4 division system, but those pillars/towers would be pretty powerful (or overpowered) if it's generating 2 quanta from a posible 3 elements.

Anyone still remembers the story I entered for the Short Story Contest? I grouped the elements into three groups exactly like this.

Cardinal:
Those elements make up the laws of the universe. gives a medium that allows matter to exist; marks the beginning and end of matter's existence. is the unifying force of order that binds all together; is the unpredictable force of chaos that breaks things apart.

Material:
Those elements create tangible matter. is hot and is cold; they govern temperature. is solid and is intangible; they govern form. Those four elements also represent the four states of matter, plasma, liquid, solid, gas, respectively.

Spiritual:
Those elements define the creatures. is the energy that allows creatures to grow and develop; to prevent them from overflowing, was put into them so that they'll decay and die. illuminates the world and allows the creature to see each other, so that they will help each other; blinds the creatures to those around them, and makes them only aware of their own selfish desires.

The above scheme is three groups instead of four, but I think triplicity also works. What do you think?

I like this the best out of all the ideas.

[Bloodshadow]

SG already pretty much decided to use my idea for the three groups. However, right now we're trying to think of FOUR ally groups, using one element from each of the three groups.

[Sastrugi]

I've been messing around with different organization schemes ever since I found this thread yesterday, and I came up with something very similar to Bloodshadow's method. I'm still working on placement, but I have all of the elements charted out in a way that sort of makes sense. It provides multiple ways of dividing them up in various amounts.

No picture, though. I'm trying to learn Powerpoint, or at least the Open Office equivalent, and that means you get a slideshow today. 

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=GHD1DW84 (http://www.megaupload.com/?d=GHD1DW84)

[bojengles77]

i like the idea, but i also like the current pairing of elements. I just think that maybe the pairings now are visually not very interesting, and that is the aspect of the setup you might want to play with as opposed to the actual groups the elements are in, if you get what i'm saying. just perhaps play with the visual art of the elements menu, i like the idea of contradicting element pairings though

[killfer8]

DECAY!!    i love those ideas, would those work for tournaments? it'll be pretty cool

[Seravy]

My suggestion (assigning each element to a zodiac sign, and make groups according to astrology), matching Cardinal to astrological cardinal signs, material to astrological fixed signs and spiritual to astrological mutable signs.

Fire Element signs :
Aries (Cardinal) : Entropy
Leo (Fixed) : Fire
Sagittarius (Mutable) : Light
(Fire generates Light and increases Entropy of the system)

Earth signs :
Taurus (Fixed) : Earth
Virgo (Mutable) : Death
Capricorn (Cardinal) : Gravity
(Earth has gravity and dead creatures return to the earth)

Air signs :
Gemini (Mutable) : Life
Libra (Cardinal) : Aether
Aquarius (Fixed) : Air
(Air is the most necessary for living out of all the basic four elements, and aether is the same for the universe as the air if for the living)

Water signs :
Cancer (Cardinal) : Time
Scorpio (Fixed) : Water
Pisces (Mutable) : Darkness
(There is darkness in deep water. Time flows, like water)

This gives us three groups based on the purpose of the element (Cardinal, Material, Spiritual) the same way as was already suggested, while also providing the four groups based on the main element of the group (Fire,Water,Earth and Air)
(http://www.screenshotdumpster.com/view/m7Gbd53981/elements)

Organizing the elements like this could give us seven possible multi-element pillars, making deck construction much more interesting and opening way more choices than only three or four groups, while keeping the best out of both type of suggestion.

Also note that in astrology, opposing elements are ones that "need" each other for their existence, kinda like the two sides of a coin, so they aren't the natural enemies of each other.
For example, Fire opposes Air, because Fire is necessary for matter to became aerial (otherwise it would be frozen and become solid), while Fire also can't exist without air (oxigen is needed for a fire to form)
So the original assigned opposing elements (Fire to Water, Earth to Air, do not fit in this system. Here, elements that are harmful for each other are the other two elements of the same group, for example, in Fire's case, it's water and earth, not the opposing Air)
This system fits well here, making Life and Light being enemies to both Darkness and Water, Fire and Air to Water and Earth, and finally Aether and Entropy (freedom,chaos) to Time and Gravity (order,control).

[Lex]

(assigning each element to a zodiac sign, and make groups according to astrology)

Idea is fine BUT the main problem is: elements are ALREADY assigned to zodiacs and assignment is quite different. Look at left side of Oracle screen:

[pepokish]

I agree with Lex.  I don't really like the idea of allowing zodiac symbols to represent the elements, and Zanz has already done a decent job of that, anyway.  The only discrepancy I have with his configuration is that he's placed Aries as the representative of life, which doesn't make sense to me at all.  But that's why I'm not a fan of the whole zodiac categorization -- the elements don't fit the signs all that well.

[Seravy]

I would prefer an assignment on Oracle that is related to how the elements interact with each other. Currently, even the opposing elements have a totally random distance to each other on the Wheel in addition to being unrelated to any future grouping.
In my suggestion, they'd actually be at 3 sign distance to each other for all 6 pairs. (Which is the most disharmonic distance in astrology)
I personally think the elements match the signs well the way they are now, except for Capricorn (which is the sign for order, and restriction) with Entropy (Chaos), however, showing the relations of the elements to each other in the assignment of Wheel positions would be more important.

[Bloodshadow]

The Oracle and the zodiac signs! Dang, how could I have forgotten about those... *slaps self in face*

Erm... Wait. I see the problem. Some of the elemental groups are screwed up. For example, in the Air zodiac signs there are Gemini and Libra, which represent Aether and Gravity. But those two elements are both Cardinal, and therefore cannot be in the same ally group.

Someone get Zanz to change his element-to-zodiac alignment?