Suggestion for dividing Elements into 4 different groups

[acelink]

For the sake of parallelism, the  group should be called destruction, as the  group was called creation, but that's just being picky. 

Earth over fire? That seems odd to me.
Looking at it from the current games point of view: Fire has explosion, Firebolt & RoF.  Earth has Quicksand?  (I think Im missing something)

My original thoughts for destruction were more based around Fire being the center point with Permanent Destruction, Single Target Damage and AoE.  Death falls in on one side with the AoE posion and single target posion.  Darkness on the other side-- with steal / siphon (single target nuke).


I like the offensive/defensive thing you made.

[Scaredgirl]

For the sake of parallelism, the  group should be called destruction, as the  group was called creation, but that's just being picky.  The fact that earth has a lot pillar destruction means the category fits a little bit better IMO.  Otherwise these pairings look amazing.  As for the other two teams...
  - Offense.  Momentum makes shields useless, mutants are crazy powerful, and lycanthropes are amazing too.  Adding in chaos power shows entropy's offensive power. As for fire, lances/Fahrenheit are very offensive.
    - Defense.  Freeze and freeze shield is crazy defensive.  Reverse time and Turtle shield and sun dial are defensive.  Phase shield, lobotomize, and immortality also fit in the defense catagory.


Problems with the proposed setup would be gravity and entropy on one team, and aether time on the other.  You can fix this by swapping gravity and aether.  So the teams would be
Offense:    for lances, mutants, and the fact that you cannot be creature controlled.
Defense:      for freezes, delays, and otyughs/armagios.

I love it either way =D

Why no love for "Decay"? 

I personally think anything called "Destruction" that does not have Fire in it is fail.

That offense/defense idea is very cool and might work.

So many great ideas on this thread. Difficult to choose the right one. We might have to put up a couple of polls soon.

[Bloodshadow]

Oh and don't we already have a sort of a group division: (, , , ) (, , , ) (, , , ). I'm not sure know how these groups would be called, but they all make complete intuitive sense. These elements fit together, even if they are pairs of opposites. On the minus side three groups may mean more trouble planning events (not divisible by two) and this also doesn't take balance into consideration.

I agree that these make intuitive sense, I'd even contemplated suggesting semi-quanta pillars on these in the wiki.
Elemental pillar -> generates 2 random quanta per turn from the elements (, , , )
Balance pillar -> generates 2 random quanta per turn from the elements (, , , )
Power pillar -> generates 2 random qanta per turn from the elements (, , , )

however this idea could be applied to a 4 division system, but those pillars/towers would be pretty powerful (or overpowered) if it's generating 2 quanta from a posible 3 elements.

Anyone still remembers the story I entered for the Short Story Contest? I grouped the elements into three groups exactly like this.

Cardinal:
Those elements make up the laws of the universe. gives a medium that allows matter to exist; marks the beginning and end of matter's existence. is the unifying force of order that binds all together; is the unpredictable force of chaos that breaks things apart.

Material:
Those elements create tangible matter. is hot and is cold; they govern temperature. is solid and is intangible; they govern form. Those four elements also represent the four states of matter, plasma, liquid, solid, gas, respectively.

Spiritual:
Those elements define the creatures. is the energy that allows creatures to grow and develop; to prevent them from overflowing, was put into them so that they'll decay and die. illuminates the world and allows the creature to see each other, so that they will help each other; blinds the creatures to those around them, and makes them only aware of their own selfish desires.

The above scheme is three groups instead of four, but I think triplicity also works. What do you think?

[Glitch]

I personally think anything called "Destruction" that does not have Fire in it is fail.

Ah, but anything named construction with water in it is also fail =(

Water would work well for decay... and fire would work well for growth....... I think we're on to something here.

About the whole Decay thing, it's just parallelism.  I'm kind of a grammar nazi =/

[Scaredgirl]

I personally think anything called "Destruction" that does not have Fire in it is fail.

Ah, but anything named construction with water in it is also fail =(

Water would work well for decay... and fire would work well for growth....... I think we're on to something here.

About the whole Decay thing, it's just parallelism.  I'm kind of a grammar nazi =/

I agree. That's why I didn't put Water in Construction. In fact I didn't use Construction at all. I put Water in Order.

I don't even know what "parallelism" means but it sounds bad.

It doesn't have to be "Decay" but "Destruction" doesn't work either imo.

[Bloodshadow]

I can't believe my post was completely ignored

Really, I want you to consider it. I think naming them Cardinal, Material and Spiritual will work.

[Glitch]

Alright, parallelism works like this.

If you had six groups, strong versus weak, fast versus slow, wouldn't it be weird if the last group was crazy versus creation?  All the other pairings are opposites but that one.  Parallelism is where you continue a pattern throughout a sentence.  After a lot of amazing alliteration an accidental fallacy almost ends everything.  You wouldn't talk about someone, running, swimming, and jumped.  Similarly, and patterns you start should be followed throughout.  Order is the opposite of chaos.  Decay and life however have no connection.

So if you call  "the makers", to follow parallelism you'd call  the destroyers.

[Scaredgirl]

I can't believe my post was completely ignored

Really, I want you to consider it. I think naming them Cardinal, Material and Spiritual will work.

I was a zombie last night so probably a lot of stuff got ignored.

Anyone still remembers the story I entered for the Short Story Contest? I grouped the elements into three groups exactly like this.

Cardinal:
Those elements make up the laws of the universe. gives a medium that allows matter to exist; marks the beginning and end of matter's existence. is the unifying force of order that binds all together; is the unpredictable force of chaos that breaks things apart.

Material:
Those elements create tangible matter. is hot and is cold; they govern temperature. is solid and is intangible; they govern form. Those four elements also represent the four states of matter, plasma, liquid, solid, gas, respectively.

Spiritual:
Those elements define the creatures. is the energy that allows creatures to grow and develop; to prevent them from overflowing, was put into them so that they'll decay and die. illuminates the world and allows the creature to see each other, so that they will help each other; blinds the creatures to those around them, and makes them only aware of their own selfish desires.

The above scheme is three groups instead of four, but I think triplicity also works. What do you think?

When I've been thinking about these groups, I've been stuck on the 4 groups, thinking about PvP and different "sides". But if we only think about what the elements are, you (and others) have nailed it here. It's not even a debate really. These ARE the 3 groups.

I like:
- Material
- Spiritual ( <- awesome)
- descriptions ( <- ridiculously awesome)

I don't like:
- Cardinal (Google image search below which explains my point)
I propose we use these 3 groups to show the differences between the elements. It's the only way that makes sense really.

For PvP purposes we then make 4 groups others (something like in my original post) that are fighting each other because I think it would be extremely lame if life and death fought side by side. My brain has seen too many good vs. evil movies to except something like that.

Anyways, very nice job Bloodshadow.

Alright, parallelism works like this.

If you had six groups, strong versus weak, fast versus slow, wouldn't it be weird if the last group was crazy versus creation?  All the other pairings are opposites but that one.  Parallelism is where you continue a pattern throughout a sentence.  After a lot of amazing alliteration an accidental fallacy almost ends everything.  You wouldn't talk about someone, running, swimming, and jumped.  Similarly, and patterns you start should be followed throughout.  Order is the opposite of chaos.  Decay and life however have no connection.

So if you call  "the makers", to follow parallelism you'd call  the destroyers.

Thanks for the explanation. I call that "being the opposite". I don't need your fancy book-learning words

But "Decay".. isn't it like "slow destruction"? Or am I confusing it with some other word?

[Lex]

I don't like:
- Cardinal (Google image search below which explains my point)

Hmm.. maybe then: Spatial?

[Scaredgirl]

I don't like:
- Cardinal (Google image search below which explains my point)

Hmm.. maybe then: Spatial?

I personally prefer words I've actually heard used before. To me "Spatial" sounds like a part of human anatomy, maybe something that is inside an ear. Other option is that it's used in cooking, maybe the thing you use to drain water from cooked spaghetti?

There's also a big difference between "Army of Destruction" and "Army of Spatial".

[Lex]

Another idea then: Fundamental?

EDIT: Here is my approach to the subject. With so many elements I think we need to think 3-dimensional:



Red lines show "antagonists", blue - "allies", grey - "groups".

[Scaredgirl]

Another idea then: Fundamental?

EDIT: Here is my approach to the subject. With so many elements I think we need to think 3-dimensional:



Red lines show "antagonists", blue - "allies", grey - "groups".

This will officially be my 3000th post.


I have to say that image is very interesting. Unfortunately it looks like it's taken from a very advanced chemistry book. Way too complex.

I like the idea of "Red lines show "antagonists", blue - "allies", grey - "groups". We should definitely have those lines.

Best thing to have imo would be:

- 3 "elemental groups" ,    ,   
- 4 "ally groups"    ,    ,    ,   

Biggest fail in that is of course the fact that some "ally groups" have no card synergy between them.