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bojengles77

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Re: Steam Engine | Lava Golem Table https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=8445.msg98534#msg98534
« Reply #24 on: June 22, 2010, 03:25:31 pm »
And I'm 100% sure that it did 4 damage then went down to 3 attack.

Check your eyesight :).
That's how it worked for me yesterday in trainer.

PuppyChow

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Re: Steam Engine | Lava Golem Table https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=8445.msg98559#msg98559
« Reply #25 on: June 22, 2010, 03:59:26 pm »
Hmm, maybe I'm weird, but that's not how I'd play steam machines.

The damage is good late game, sure, but early game their synergy with rage potion is way more beneficial.

Lava Destroyer
Turn 1: 7 damage
Turn 2: 16 damage
Turn 3: 27 damage
Turn 4: 46 damage (rage potion)
Turn 5: 67 damage
Turn 6: 90 damage
Turn 7: 115 damage.  Deadface

Steam Machine (upgraded)
Turn 1: 15 damage (rage potion x 2)
Turn 2: 33 damage
Turn 3: 54 damage
Turn 4: 78 damage
Turn 5: 105 damage.  Deadface
Turn 1: 12 damage (rage potion x2)
Turn 2: 28 damage
Turn 3: 47 damage
Turn 4: 69 damage
Turn 5: 94 damage
Turn 6: 122 damage. Deadface

Sorry. It takes six turns, not five.

Furthermore...

Turn 1: 3 Health
Turn 2: 3 Health
Turn 3: 3 Health
Turn 4: 3 Health
Turn 5: 3 Health
Turn 6: 3 Health

Seems easy to control imo :). Especially versus lava destroyer...

Turn 1: 1 Health
Turn 2: 3 Health
Turn 3: 5 Health
Turn 4: 1 Health
Turn 5: 3 Health
Turn 6: 5 Health
Turn 7: 7 Health

Now you could argue that over the first six turns it still averages 3 health, but keep in mind that the difference between 1 and 3 health is negligible; almost everything that kills 1 health will kill 3 health. However, the difference between those two turns with 5 health and 3 health is much larger and will allow you to survive a larger variety of control on those two turns.

Also of note is that you don't NEED to use rage potion on a lava destroyer. You may say that you don't need to use it on the steam machine either, but steam machine minus rage potions verse lava destroyer minus rage potions = lava destroyer is faster. Add that on to the fact that you need to rage potion the machine twice on the first turn to achieve that fast kill, and on that turn you may not know if your opponent has much control. However, 4 turns in, when you would rage potion the destroyer, you will have a much better idea of what kind of control the opponent has and could make a much more educated decision.


Now let's look at costs for each over their turns.

Steam Machine:
Turn 1: 7  :water:fire (2 rage pots)
Turn 2: 7  :water:fire
Turn 3: 7  :water 10  :fire
Turn 4: 7  :water 12  :fire
Turn 5: 7  :water 14  :fire
Turn 6: 7  :water 16  :fire

Lava Destroyer:
Turn 1: 5  :fire
Turn 2: 5  :fire:earth
Turn 3: 5  :fire  2  :earth
Turn 4: 8  :fire  3  :earth (rage pot)
Turn 5: 8  :fire  4  :earth
Turn 6: 8  :fire:earth
Turn 7: 8  :fire:earth


Now which seems more cost effective to you? The lava destroyer, for sure. Also of note is that you can easily play a lava destroyer on turn 1 with a cremation and then with a mark of earth you have ALL of the costs covered. Good luck getting the steam machine out on turn 1 and rage potioning it twice :). So essentially you won't every play the steam machine until turn 2, so we could add in a turn before it starts doing damage and make it take 7 turns to kill, which means it takes just as long for a lava destroyer to kill as it does steam machine. And lava destroyer costs a little more than half as much with quanta much easier to get. Oh and the lava destroyer is more flexible with respect to using or not using the rage elixir.

Finally, as one last point, it should be noted that playing the steam machine on turn 2 and rage elixiring it twice would be a BEST CASE scenario as opposed to playing a lava destroyer on turn 1 is average with cremations (which would also be the best way to go about getting fire quanta for the steam machine). More often than not, you wouldn't play a steam machine and rage it twice until turn 3, so it would actually take LONGER for a steam machine to kill versus a lava destroyer in the case where a deck with solely lava destroyers, cremations, and rage elixirs is up against a steam machine, cremation, and rage elixir deck.

Offline Glitch

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Re: Steam Engine | Lava Golem Table https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=8445.msg98566#msg98566
« Reply #26 on: June 22, 2010, 04:05:30 pm »
Fair enough.

I'll have to hop on the trainer and build a steam deck.

Offline harakirinosaruTopic starter

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Re: Steam Engine | Lava Golem Table https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=8445.msg98636#msg98636
« Reply #27 on: June 22, 2010, 05:40:00 pm »
Someone in chat remarked that it takes a whole match for a Steam Engine to overtake a Lava Golem. So I thought I'd see. Here's what I've found.

It takes 5|7 turns for a Steam Engine to outrace a Lava Destroyer. Any longer than that, and it becomes better.
I said that, and I was talking about Destroyer, and your calculations are incomplete.

At turn 8, after both are placed, provided you have enough quanta to supply them, Steam will have attack of 22, while Destroyer will have attack of 21.
Including that turn, Steam will make overall damage of 91, while Destroyer will make overall damage of 114.
I based my data off exactly what you said.

I exhibit no bias toward either card. I just present to you the math and explain in words to what the numbers say.

And why are you people arguing with PuppyChow? Of course he's right. He's PuppyChow.

...but he is actually right.

Malduk

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Re: Steam Engine | Lava Golem Table https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=8445.msg98643#msg98643
« Reply #28 on: June 22, 2010, 05:54:51 pm »
Someone in chat remarked that it takes a whole match for a Steam Engine to overtake a Lava Golem. So I thought I'd see. Here's what I've found.

It takes 5|7 turns for a Steam Engine to outrace a Lava Destroyer. Any longer than that, and it becomes better.
I said that, and I was talking about Destroyer, and your calculations are incomplete.

At turn 8, after both are placed, provided you have enough quanta to supply them, Steam will have attack of 22, while Destroyer will have attack of 21.
Including that turn, Steam will make overall damage of 91, while Destroyer will make overall damage of 114.
I based my data off exactly what you said.

I exhibit no bias toward either card. I just present to you the math and explain in words to what the numbers say.
And I corrected you as you didnt base your data off exactly what I said, and I corrected your incomplete math.

I exhibit no bias toward either card. I just present to you the math and explain in words to what the numbers say.

Offline GG

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Re: Steam Engine | Lava Golem Table https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=8445.msg99480#msg99480
« Reply #29 on: June 23, 2010, 07:23:03 pm »
also remember that lava golem/destroyer is really a weaking at start... can even be killed by a thunderstorm.

steam machine, however, has 8 HP and hard to kill.

(well i guess gravity shield can block it, but there are lot more ways to kill a 1~3 HP weakling)

in that logic, as people mentioned above, you should compare with firemasters :(
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Re: Steam Engine | Lava Golem Table https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=8445.msg100072#msg100072
« Reply #30 on: June 24, 2010, 04:44:59 pm »
OK, I figured out the problem -- Steam Machine was changed when the Trainer was updated.  Literally, I opened the Trainer tab that's been on my Opera bar for the last week, tested Steam Machine, and it removed a point of damage before it attacked.  Then, on a hunch, I closed and reopened the Trainer to make sure I was on the most recent version, and sure as sh!t, it's been changed since, and now it does 4 on it's first attack.

Which actually, combined with the reduced cost for casting and activation starts to make it seem like a pretty good deal, all told.

Just don't give it Adrenaline. :)


Also, I did a little experimenting with Steam Engine and Antimatter, and I figured out the rule: no matter what caused the circumstance, if Steam Engine's Current ATK is less than it's Full ATK, it doesn't lose a point of ATK at the end of each turn -- but if the Current ATK is GREATER than it's Full ATK for *any* reason, it loses a point of ATK at the end of it's turn.

Just so y'all know.
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bojengles77

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Re: Steam Engine | Lava Golem Table https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=8445.msg100262#msg100262
« Reply #31 on: June 24, 2010, 07:44:29 pm »
OK, I figured out the problem -- Steam Machine was changed when the Trainer was updated.  Literally, I opened the Trainer tab that's been on my Opera bar for the last week, tested Steam Machine, and it removed a point of damage before it attacked.  Then, on a hunch, I closed and reopened the Trainer to make sure I was on the most recent version, and sure as sh!t, it's been changed since, and now it does 4 on it's first attack.

Which actually, combined with the reduced cost for casting and activation starts to make it seem like a pretty good deal, all told.

Just don't give it Adrenaline. :)


Also, I did a little experimenting with Steam Engine and Antimatter, and I figured out the rule: no matter what caused the circumstance, if Steam Engine's Current ATK is less than it's Full ATK, it doesn't lose a point of ATK at the end of each turn -- but if the Current ATK is GREATER than it's Full ATK for *any* reason, it loses a point of ATK at the end of it's turn.

Just so y'all know.
There you go, another plus for steam machine. When it gets antimattered (or any of your creatures), you're recovering damage at a faster rate - either 4 if the steam machine is antimattered, or 3 per turn if it is not. I'm not keeping track of points here, but they both look pretty good to me.

snowballfr

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Re: Steam Engine | Lava Golem Table https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=8445.msg107696#msg107696
« Reply #32 on: July 04, 2010, 05:11:52 pm »
I noticed when playing it today that when lobotomized the steam machine stop loosing ATK...
I personally find the card a great ad to my deck ...

Offline asymmetry

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Re: Steam Engine | Lava Golem Table https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=8445.msg107712#msg107712
« Reply #33 on: July 04, 2010, 05:46:21 pm »
Very, very useful. :D go steamy!
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twinsbuster

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Re: Steam Engine | Lava Golem Table https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=8445.msg108225#msg108225
« Reply #34 on: July 05, 2010, 10:02:45 am »
what I can see is steam machine weaker than lava golem and firemaster

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Re: Steam Engine | Lava Golem Table https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=8445.msg117520#msg117520
« Reply #35 on: July 18, 2010, 05:16:12 pm »
yea,i'm using it in my fg deck with SoR,realy usefull because it's safe for oty's (high hp but golem starts with one so needs quint)
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