Second Upgrade: Updated

[ayoth]

To those of you that remembered when I made the "Second Upgrade", why don't we make it like a buff card to a specific monster, for x quanta? Card that can only be obtained through oracle and tournament wins, highly special, costs a lot, etc. etc. etc.

[Toge111]

That makes no sense.

[Glitch]

The current upgrade system is a huge flaw in the game design, forcing pointless grinding, making unupgraded cards obsolete in PVP events (unless specified as an unupped event), and completely changing the balance of cost/reward.  By adding upgraded cards, suddenly instead of grinding for the electrum, people stop giving a crap and grind only for the card, which is worth maybe 20x more.  But to be able to grind upgraded cards, you first have to upgrade your deck, slowly, and one card at a time, with the 20x AI3.  This splits the skill level of an elements player into two groups: upgraded, and unupgraded, which the other difficulty levels get ignored.

By adding a second upgrade level, you simply create another such gap, forcing more grinding, making new players simply unable to compete because the cards are literally stacked against them, and you potentially risk breaking the game further adding further bonus to certain cards.  (Antimatter for cheaper?!  Fractal buffed?!  A 0|7 Otyugh?!  Earthquake costing 1?!  S.Nova giving 3 quanta per element?!  And god forbid dark matter got his hands on a better version of black hole. )

[Toge111]

The current upgrade system is a huge flaw in the game design, forcing pointless grinding, making unupgraded cards obsolete in PVP events (unless specified as an unupped event), and completely changing the balance of cost/reward.  By adding upgraded cards, suddenly instead of grinding for the electrum, people stop giving a crap and grind only for the card, which is worth maybe 20x more.  But to be able to grind upgraded cards, you first have to upgrade your deck, slowly, and one card at a time, with the 20x AI3.  This splits the skill level of an elements player into two groups: upgraded, and unupgraded, which the other difficulty levels get ignored.

- Well said. Power creep in itself is not bad, just that it's permanent. For limited power creep, check out Warcraft III's hero system. Each hero level makes the hero quite a bit stronger, which has impact in that game. When the game ends, levels get reset and players have to formulate new strategy for every occasion.

This is quite a bit different from elements, not just for "poor" players. You might have fully upped über deck, but the thing is you're stuck with it for long stretches of time. You might come up with creative deck, but it's likely worse because you don't have cards for it.

[ayoth]

The current upgrade system is a huge flaw in the game design, forcing pointless grinding, making unupgraded cards obsolete in PVP events (unless specified as an unupped event), and completely changing the balance of cost/reward.  By adding upgraded cards, suddenly instead of grinding for the electrum, people stop giving a crap and grind only for the card, which is worth maybe 20x more.  But to be able to grind upgraded cards, you first have to upgrade your deck, slowly, and one card at a time, with the 20x AI3.  This splits the skill level of an elements player into two groups: upgraded, and unupgraded, which the other difficulty levels get ignored.

By adding a second upgrade level, you simply create another such gap, forcing more grinding, making new players simply unable to compete because the cards are literally stacked against them, and you potentially risk breaking the game further adding further bonus to certain cards.  (Antimatter for cheaper?!  Fractal buffed?!  A 0|7 Otyugh?!  Earthquake costing 1?!  S.Nova giving 3 quanta per element?!  And god forbid dark matter got his hands on a better version of black hole. )

'cept it's a buff card, and is a tourney win card, with relics. The most you can get would be 6, which will be a huge accomplishment (Like getting 6 nymphs) 

[Kuross]

I am a staunch believer that the best way to keep this game going forward is to create and add new cards rather than upgrade existing ones. In this way, everyone will have access to them unilaterally and the metagame becomes more complex and interesting. Adding a buff'ing ability to cards that is either ultra hard to get or something from PvP tourney's will only make the rich richer and the poor poorer.

[guolin]

I am a staunch believer that the best way to keep this game going forward is to create and add new cards rather than upgrade existing ones. In this way, everyone will have access to them unilaterally and the metagame becomes more complex and interesting. Adding a buff'ing ability to cards that is either ultra hard to get or something from PvP tourney's will only make the rich richer and the poor poorer.

I whole-heartedly agree with this.

[EmeraldTiger]

This is one of those issues that keep coming up that falls into the
Not Going to Happen list

[Istari.]

People already have nymphs to pvp and oracle for, why add something else with a bigger impact?

[Kuross]

Not to sound too harsh, but it seems very clear this topic won't go anywhere so maybe move it or lock it? I think we're beating a dead horse here.