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Offline CrockettRocket

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Re: Community, let's have a little talk about clear communication. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=56698.msg1167797#msg1167797
« Reply #48 on: November 23, 2014, 12:26:53 am »
http://www.books-that-can-change-your-life.net/2009/how-to-win-friends-and-influence-people/
By Dale Carnegie.

Some of these things here are repetitive.. and you may laugh at the title of the book. It's a psychology book that has a lot of fundamental principles for human behavior and communications. All the chapter titles are figures of speech or metaphors.

Ex.Chapter 1: If you want to gather honey, don’t kick over the beehive
We've probably all heard this figure of speech before, or similar. "You gather more bees with honey than vinegar." Its a fundamental principle that you get more friends by being nice rather than mean. So obviously if a girl is being nice to you, no it doesn't mean she loves you, it means she hates you. ::) Their are quick summery's for each chapter in the link that best show the meaning if you ever take the time to read them.

In bold you'll see it flat out tells you the principles to go along with each chapter title.
Ex.Principal # 1: Don’t criticize, don’t condemn and don’t complain

Spoiler for each chapter name and each chapter title if you don't trust links posted on the interwebs.:

I'll skip chapter one... actually read my posts!

Chapter 2: The big secret of dealing with people
Ok maybe that wasn't a figure of speech or metaphor.. but whatevs.
Principle 2:Compliment sincerely and honestly

Chapter 3:He who can do this this has the whole world with him. He who cannot walks a lonely way
Principle 3:Motivate often to do what you propose.

Chapter 4:Do this and you’ll be welcome anywhere
Principle 4:Be genuinely interested in others

Chapter 5:A simple way to make a good first impression
Principle 5: Have a smile

Chapter 6:If you don’t do this you are headed for trouble
Principle 6:Remember a person’s name so that they are important

Chapter 7:An easy way to become a good conversationalist
Principle 7:Learn to listen. Encourage others to talk about themselves

Chapter 8:How to get people to like you instantly
Principle 8:Talk to people about what they are interested in

Chapter 9:How to make people like you instantly
Principle 9:Make others feel important and do it sincerely

Chapter 10:You can’t win an argument
Spoiler for advice to help you not argue.:
Don’t give in to your first impulse.
Overcome your anger.
Begin by listening.
Find common ground.
Be honest.
Promise to think about the ideas of your adversaries, and study them carefully.
Sincerely thank your adversaries for their interest.
Adjourn your actions to allow both parties present the time to examine the problem in detail.
Principal10: Avoid controversy, unless you can come out on top.

Chapter 11:A sure way of making enemies and how to avoid it.
Principle 11:Respect others’ opinions. Never tell people they are wrong.

Chapter 12:If you’re wrong, admit it.
Principle 12:If you are wrong, admit it promptly and energetically. (In the book its "If you're wrong, admit it quickly and empathetically" which I think empathetically is a lot better then energetically...)

Chapter 13:A drop of honey (repetitive of chapter 1)
Principle 13:Begin on a friendly note.

Chapter 14:The Secret of Socrates
Principle 14:Ask questions that will lead to them saying yes immediately.

Chapter 15:The safety valve in handling complaints
Principle 15:Make the person you are talking to feel completely comfortable speaking.

Chapter 16:How to get cooperation
Principle 16:Allow the person you are talking to the pleasure of thinking it was his idea.
Spoiler for this can be a bit tricky, here's an example of how I did it.:
Usually it just means that lead the person to an epiphany of the conclusion you thought of. I did this with Dm in mafia. I said let's lynch D2D (because I was scared as s*** of steal ruining civvy plans) and he said steal could be pretty useful for town. Instead of arguing, I asked him what he thought was the least important role for town, since we have no leads and need to lynch someone. He came to the epiphany that I led him to that MV was the weakest role for town's benefit. Then because we didn't know if D2D or D2D's partner was MV cuz all we had was a darkness and partner claim (before partner claim wasn't allowed) we decided to lynch D2D and hope D2D was MV so we could get a confirmed steal civvy)
Chapter 17: A formula that will work wonders for you.
Principle 17:Make a real effort to see things from the other person’s point of view.

Chapter 18:What everybody wants
Principle 18:Welcome kindly the ideas and desires of others. (I tried to do this in mafia with UTA my partner so he would be comfortable with me executing plans without going to him first. He's a pretty understanding guy anyway)

Chapter 19:Appeal that everybody likes
Principle 19:Appeal to higher feelings.

Chapter 20:The movies do it. TV does it. Why don’t you do it?
Principle 20:Show off your ideas spectacularly. Appeal to both sight and imagination.

Skipping chapter 21... this is like a last resort that should be reserved for very dire situations.

Chapter 22:If you must find fault, this is the way to begin
Principle 22:Start out with sincere praise.

Skipping Chapter 23.. it's contradictory to an earlier point if you just read the title and principle.

Chapter 24:Talk about your own mistakes first (AKA be humble)
Principle 24:Mention your own mistakes befote correcting those of other people.

Chapter 25:Nobody likes to take orders
Principle 25:Ask questions rather than giving direct orders.

Chapter 26:Let the other person save face (Zblader, I didn't feel like you were doing this mainly in chat. That's mainly why a compromise wasn't established.)
Principle 26:Let the person you are speaking with save face.

Chapter 27:How to spur people on to success
Principle 27:Praise the smallest progress and praise any progress. Do it warmly and generously.

Chapter 28:Give a dog a good name
Principle 28:Give a good reputation to the deserving

Chapter 29:Making the fault seem easy to correct
Principle 29:Encourage. Make errors seem easy to fix.

Chapter 30:Making people glad to do what you want
Spoiler for Needed stuff to know:
Be sincere. Don’t make false promises. Forget your own interests and focus on the interest of the other person.
Make sure you know exactly what you want the person to do.
Put yourself in the other person’s place.
Think about the benefits that the other person will get out of doing what you want them to do.
Make sure these benefits line up with what the other person wants.
When you make an offer, structure it in such a way that the other person understands that he will benefit personally.
Principal 30: Make others happy to do what you suggest.
A world war? Am I invited?
Thanks to skotadi for saying this in chat. Made me laugh pretty hard, and fits with me not getting drafted. :silly:

Offline Dm

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Re: Community, let's have a little talk about clear communication. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=56698.msg1167803#msg1167803
« Reply #49 on: November 23, 2014, 01:06:52 am »
Chapter 31: Books can't give you any amount of real life experience

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Re: Community, let's have a little talk about clear communication. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=56698.msg1167807#msg1167807
« Reply #50 on: November 23, 2014, 01:19:00 am »
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Re: Community, let's have a little talk about clear communication. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=56698.msg1167843#msg1167843
« Reply #51 on: November 23, 2014, 07:19:56 am »
Actually I have a question: let's say two (or more) members find themselves in a conflict that they cannot resolve between themselves and need an outside - hopefully impartial - party to help them settle it. Who shall they turn to?

They behave like adults, get the fuck over themselves and don't bother dragging third parties into their mess. Agree to disagree and leave eachother alone.
So long and thanks for all the fish!

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Re: Community, let's have a little talk about clear communication. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=56698.msg1167853#msg1167853
« Reply #52 on: November 23, 2014, 10:37:58 am »
Actually I have a question: let's say two (or more) members find themselves in a conflict that they cannot resolve between themselves and need an outside - hopefully impartial - party to help them settle it. Who shall they turn to?

They behave like adults, get the fuck over themselves and don't bother dragging third parties into their mess. Agree to disagree and leave eachother alone.
That is a good 10,000 foot summary.

But to be fair:
1) Not everyone is an adult here
2) Adults become adults before they learn to act like adults
3) Some adults never learn mature conflict resolution
4) Sometimes mature conflict resolution is not enough (too little common ground, too high of passions, too little intellectual empathy)



On the mediator tangent:
From my own personal experience using mediation as my primary argument technique, I can say that mediation is useful for diffusing the passion of a conflict but will not give a resolution by itself.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2014, 10:40:55 am by OldTrees »
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Offline allembrande jackson

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Re: Community, let's have a little talk about clear communication. https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=56698.msg1167923#msg1167923
« Reply #53 on: November 23, 2014, 04:51:15 pm »
Actually I have a question: let's say two (or more) members find themselves in a conflict that they cannot resolve between themselves and need an outside - hopefully impartial - party to help them settle it. Who shall they turn to?

They behave like adults, get the fuck over themselves and don't bother dragging third parties into their mess. Agree to disagree and leave eachother alone.

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