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Offline BluePriestTopic starter

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Reality vs Imaginary? where is the line drawn? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=16999.msg216939#msg216939
« on: December 05, 2010, 03:50:55 am »
You here a lot, especially in the game suggestion forums that something just "isnt realistic" Such as a frog dieing by flooding. Then people are told "Its a game, it doesnt have to be realistic" which I agree with... to a point. A certain level of realism is good for games. People should be able to easily use common world knowledge to understand games. for example. Touching a buzzsaw while its running should hurt.... bad (unless your metal or chuck norris). Especially if you thrust your face into it (unless your chuck norris). A game shouldnt be so unrealistic that when I touch a buzzsaw a start springing flowers from my head. Thats just my 2 cents though

so what is your take?
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Offline OldTrees

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Re: Reality vs Imaginary? where is the line drawn? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=16999.msg216944#msg216944
« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2010, 03:56:52 am »
For Elements I use an "excuse" guideline.
If there is a reasonably thematical excuse then it is okay.

For flooding the excuse for me is:
It refers to a great flood like Noahs Arc. Amphibious and avian life won't cut it only aquatic life survives.
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Re: Reality vs Imaginary? where is the line drawn? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=16999.msg216985#msg216985
« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2010, 05:17:51 am »
I generally agree. When you make things work differently than they would in reality, they become unintuitive.

I think you should try and stay fairly close to how things would work in reality (given that things like dragons and magic exist obviously).

Offline Ekki

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Re: Reality vs Imaginary? where is the line drawn? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=16999.msg217004#msg217004
« Reply #3 on: December 05, 2010, 05:47:43 am »
It's a fantasy game, and it has a "fantastic reality" that has its rules... It's also constantly getting improved, so I can't just say "this is unrealistic" without it being seriously unrealistic...

In the example of flooding, maybe the frogs should be water creatures, but as they aren't, THIS frogs can't swim.

At any rate, Zanz decides wheter anything is realistic or not, with the help of the forum (somehow I think) :D

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Re: Reality vs Imaginary? where is the line drawn? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=16999.msg217141#msg217141
« Reply #4 on: December 05, 2010, 10:32:02 am »
Somewhere between is my opinion.
Realism is important, but fantasy games can break some rules. But not to many.
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Re: Reality vs Imaginary? where is the line drawn? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=16999.msg217143#msg217143
« Reply #5 on: December 05, 2010, 10:41:10 am »
I really think the line is Fantastic action in a world of Realistic Logic.

Why do people suggest a frog should not die to flooding? Because there is no fantastic action that suggests it denies the realistic logic.

Offline BluePriestTopic starter

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Re: Reality vs Imaginary? where is the line drawn? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=16999.msg217255#msg217255
« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2010, 02:45:39 pm »
I love how everyones relating to the frog dieing. It was honestly the only example I could think of at the time since ive been absent for so long.
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Re: Reality vs Imaginary? where is the line drawn? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=16999.msg217273#msg217273
« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2010, 03:20:22 pm »
You here a lot, especially in the game suggestion forums that something just "isnt realistic" Such as a frog dieing by flooding. Then people are told "Its a game, it doesnt have to be realistic" which I agree with... to a point. A certain level of realism is good for games. People should be able to easily use common world knowledge to understand games. for example. Touching a buzzsaw while its running should hurt.... bad (unless your metal or chuck norris). Especially if you thrust your face into it (unless your chuck norris). A game shouldnt be so unrealistic that when I touch a buzzsaw a start springing flowers from my head. Thats just my 2 cents though

so what is your take?
IMO, there are tons of things in the world and the universe that we cannot explain, why should this game be any different. 

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Re: Reality vs Imaginary? where is the line drawn? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=16999.msg217362#msg217362
« Reply #8 on: December 05, 2010, 05:42:44 pm »
For me, as long as the game is consistent with its own rules it is fine.

This is a fantasy thing, nothing is "realistic" per se, but we do have a pretty well defined set of rules about what is realistic WITHIN the fantasy of the game. So when something breaks those rules, it sticks out and is frustrating. That is why it doesn't make sense for frogs to die while malignant cells do not. I frankly don't care because this is probably for balancing reasons and not a big deal. I mean you could also argue about which creatures should be airborne.

Anyhow, as long as everything in the game sticks to the logic of the game, I am not worried whether this could actually happen.

It is the same thing in a movie. I can set aside all my preconceived notions for a fantasy movie. And the movie can be really good. But if something in the movie breaks the fantasy's own logic, it pretty much ruins the movie because I can no longer suspend my belief.

Take Inception. No one is out there arguing that there is no such device that can hook dreamers together. No one. People are talking about what happened in the movie but no one is questioning the basic premise of being "unrealistic". We all know it isn't realistic but the movie did a pretty good job of sticking to its own logic.

I don't have a good example of a bad movie off hand but generally they break their own internal logic, which breaks your ability to set aside realism. Then you just think the movie sucks and question every aspect since they broke their own rules.

Offline Rastafla

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Re: Reality vs Imaginary? where is the line drawn? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=16999.msg217623#msg217623
« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2010, 11:05:05 pm »
I thought "Inception" was a lot of bull. I could buy that they used one machine and drugs to go into a dream state they all shared, but within that dream, using another dreamed up machine and drugs to jump into yet another dream and then again etc was just bull. They made it clear that they needed to use physical engineering and chemical means to achieve the dream so why the hell was machines within the dream with drugs and all? Just dream up whatever you wanted to happen, after all the machines they used within the dreams were dreamed up. It was just a crapload of bull. I could go on and on about things in this movie. It was a mediocre film with a really nice first half that just went right to hell and and ending you could spot from miles away.

Another movie that was bull was the movie "Eagle Eye". As if there is no stand alone or closed systems... just a bunch of bull there too. "Echelon Conspiracy" you needed less blind eyes there but it still made me cringe.

Physics and impossible movements is also something that kills movies. This can be stretched or completely ignored though depending on the setting of the film and what the story and premise is.

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All in all everyone is different, suspension of disbelief varies from person to person and to me it makes perfectly sense that the giant frogs would die. I see flooding as a very violent event which kills everything and the frogs are huge and forest dwelling, not used to lakes or sea at all. So for me flooding isn't wrong in killing them any way.
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Offline jippy99

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Re: Reality vs Imaginary? where is the line drawn? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=16999.msg217729#msg217729
« Reply #10 on: December 06, 2010, 01:24:26 am »
My take is that it is a fantasy game, so it is a fantasy, which means it can break some rules.  I believe that these rules should not be bent too far, as this makes the game unrealistic and not as fun.
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Offline BluePriestTopic starter

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Re: Reality vs Imaginary? where is the line drawn? https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=16999.msg217834#msg217834
« Reply #11 on: December 06, 2010, 04:29:15 am »
 I think the Matrix is the perfect example.


Games should be like agents. Not like Neo.
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anything
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