Rare rights (rants)

[furballdn]

How is it that nearly every single newb feels that they have a "right" to rares and shards? Rares and shards are supposed to be rare and hard to get for a reason. Yes, I know how frustrating it is to want rares, but how come today's newbs almost feel as they "deserve" rares? When I was a newb and didn't have an arsenic, I tried building an immobow using hammer. I counted each precious discord I had preciously, waiting until I had 4 to make scrambled shriekers. I didn't have a trident, so I subbed a vampire stiletto. I looked forward to the air elders each time because I wanted that OE for my FFQ deck. I wanted the rares, I desired them, but I never felt that I deserved them and that they should be given to me so easily. I was ecstatic when I finally received one, but today's newbs when they get that third lobo, instead of going "yay!" they have a more "time to go build rol/hope so I can farm FGs"

Another thing that irks me about newbies is how fast they want to move. Immediately, the first questions you hear from a lot are "okay, how do I kill half bloods? How do I kill false gods? How do I farm the arena? How do I get rol/hope and lobos? How do I get shards of readiness for instosis?" Sheesh. Take it easy. Why do you want to dash right through the game when you haven't even learned about all the unupped cards, metagame, and strategies? What's the fun in just copy/pasting a deck code they see somewhere, clicking "false god" over and over, and not learning about the many facets of the game? Trying to speedrun? There is no ending to this game. Just take it easy and relax.

Another thing about the community and decks is that each time a newb comes over, we seem to point them towards a certain direction. If they come over with their cat+bonewall deck, a few of us will advise them on how to better it, but there are others that just say "Go build mono death rush". There is not much creativity left in the game when a walkthrough or guide just says "go build this deck and click this button over and over". By forcing newbs to make toxic shriekers, shrieker rush, mono death rush, and all that, we're just limiting their creativity, and what they end up with is a skewed view of the game, seeing it as a boring clickfest and grindfest as opposed to the creativity and strategies that it offers.

[ElementalDearWatson]

I think one look at the Arena should be all you need to establish that it's not just newbies who think that copy and pasting a deck is the right way to play the game.

[Naesala]

I think a part of this is that you have to do the grindy part of the game before you can do the fun experimenting part of the game. And yes, I know there is the trainer but it doesn't feel the same. I don't feel entitled to rares, but i'm frequently frustrated when I know I could be slaying gods and blasting through the arena if I had rares. I have a list of decks I'd love to build, but cannot due to costs.

[Pineapple]

a boring clickfest and grindfest

Isn't that Elements the Game?

But seriously, it's not our fault that all the most optimized decks have been done before. Every "new" and "creative" deck comes within 1-2 months after their respective patches because the unrestrained meta-game is that one-dimensional. Grinding AI3 is about speed. Grinding FGs and Arena is about win-rate. These are two easily-measurable results that can be used to place decks into a hierarchy where only the first tier is relevant. The only time a truly original deck would appear was when someone had been "clicking 'false god' over and over", had been memorizing their decks and tactics, and had brought forth a deck with a wide coverage for all the False Gods' weaknesses. However, these decks have also fallen in front of the decks with overpowered combos that work regardless to the opponent's strategy.

Why should we tell a new player to face AI3 or PvP1 with a sub-par deck?

[inthisroom]

Wow, I actually totally agree with furball here.

Most newbs are just permanently whining to get farms, they contribute nothing whatsoever to the game except for flooding and polluting pvp2, and more often than not, once they farmed all the rares they "deserve", they leave again...

I always saw rares as a reward you get for sticking around, not as something you are due just because you play this game.

Maybe it's a generational thing, but noone seems to want to provide any effort to do anything, so let's all just hack, give out fully upped starter decks and begin every match with 75 quanta of each element, because we deserve it.

[ZephyrPhantom]

Maybe it's a generational thing, but noone seems to want to provide any effort to do anything, so let's all just hack, give out fully upped starter decks and begin every match with 75 quanta of each element, because we deserve it.

I would suggest using the trainer instead. If you want all the cards in the game with no effort, it's there for a reason.

As for addressing the matter of helping newbs out with their decks, I guess you can request everyone to give more constructive or creative suggestions, but on the other side of the coin there are only so many cards and not all of them will the deck in question that needs improvement.

[Aves]

My take:
I think that the core issue is the rarity of rares. The problem is not that they are too rare to get and that the newbs are always complaining about them. The problem is that they are too common and widespread in this community- specifically in the meta-game.

Let's take a look at the release of the shards. I do believe that they are balanced, individually (for the most part). However, only three card series' updates (since I've started playing, v 1.13) are memorable to me- the alchemy cards, the nymphs, and the shards. The alchemy cards are in the bazaar- there is no issue. The nymphs are ultra-rare, but hardly vital. Shards, however, are vital to the plethora of new decks that have been built around them.

Before I say anything else, I'd like to reiterate that shards are individually balanced, for the most part.

From instosis to zen to firestall, shards have been powering many of our most innovative decks. If we take a look at the list of cards in say 2010, and compare them to the list of cards in 2012- what percentage of card updates were rare cards? Most of the new growth in elements has been in rare cards, and thus our new deckbuilding is limited to shards. This has led to shards being too important- they are the key to unlocking the newest, most efficient decks. They are the key to that holy grail of efficiency and to the fun new decks that our creative minds in this community churn out every few weeks.

The problem is that shards are over-represented in this game, and have a disproportionate amount of influence on the meta. New players see this meta dominated by shards, and they want them. It is not logical to let people constantly see something they covet but not have it themselves and expect them not to whine about it. Now that I think of it, we had this same problem in T50 and all the pulverizer and eternity farms.

Now, getting to my point- rares play a disproportionate role in our decks- the meta. The solution: Use some of those wonderful things called 'card ideas' from the Armory. New cards and mechanics, especially those that would take up the same niche as the current rares do. The rares can stay better- but they should not be mandatory in efficient play. Reduce the prominence of rares in the meta by introducing a rain of new cards. Shift the meta away from rares so that they are wanted, but not required, in the top decks.

[Drake_XIV]

One issue that may attribute to this is that this is a flash game.  No one normally exerts too much time in a flash game.  Especially from those coming from Kong.  They just want to level up, win badges and move on.  So when they hit the brick wall we call Elements, they want the easy way out.  After all, it's not some sort of console game where you need invest a lot of time.  It's a flash game.

[dragonsdemesne]

+rep for furballdn for this.  Totally true.  Dunno what we can do about it, though.  I think Aves has got it down pretty good with his reply.

[bowlerdude04]

Although I am new and I don't think I fall into the category furball is describing, I would say that Aves' reply is definitely pretty close.

Not that I feel like I'm entitled to rares like the shards or anything, but Aves is right. Nymphs aren't necessary. Alchemy cards aren't necessary. Rare weapons aren't completely necessary and aren't that difficult to find. The shards are crucial to the most powerful decks out there. So of course when new people see that so many of the good decks rely on shards, they're going to want them. I've been grinding Bronze arena pretty frequently - although with an unupped deck - over the last week or so and I have five shards to show for it. It's definitely not easy to get them and I can understand why people would be upset that it's tough to come across some of the most important cards in the game.

[eaglgenes101]

The bigger problem is that being left in a constant state of grinding is boring. The inexperience of newbs in deckbuilding keeps them stuck in the beginner stage and prevents them from going into the intermediate stage. The advanced intermediate is stuck grinding with THE best deck, now, it's PD SoSac for FG's. Making rares more common would only grease the intermediate stage; making them less common would constrict that stage.

[Pineapple]

The bigger problem is that being left in a constant state of grinding is boring. The inexperience of newbs in deckbuilding keeps them stuck in the beginner stage and prevents them from going into the intermediate stage. The advanced intermediate is stuck grinding with THE best deck, now, it's PD SoSac for FG's. Making rares more common would only grease the intermediate stage; making them less common would constrict that stage.

You know what would really grease that stage? Hacking.