Rare rights (rants)

[OldTrees]

The bigger problem is that being left in a constant state of grinding is boring. The inexperience of newbs in deckbuilding keeps them stuck in the beginner stage and prevents them from going into the intermediate stage. The advanced intermediate is stuck grinding with THE best deck, now, it's PD SoSac for FG's. Making rares more common would only grease the intermediate stage; making them less common would constrict that stage.

You know what would really grease that stage? Hacking.

You know what would really be constructive? Not that comment.

Try instead to form an argument. Preferably without the strawman fallacy.

[Pineapple]

The bigger problem is that being left in a constant state of grinding is boring. The inexperience of newbs in deckbuilding keeps them stuck in the beginner stage and prevents them from going into the intermediate stage. The advanced intermediate is stuck grinding with THE best deck, now, it's PD SoSac for FG's. Making rares more common would only grease the intermediate stage; making them less common would constrict that stage.

Although making rares common does make it easier for nublets during the "intermediate stage", players should not take this problem (if it is a problem) into their own hands by exploiting a method that completely ignores the competitive nature of random PvP.

The developer, by making the "intermediate stage" difficult, has set a difficulty level for gathering rares. Being able to undermine the developer's intentions is no reason to do so.

[eaglgenes101]

Rather than changing how common or powerful rares are, which would throw the intermediate stage off, we should do things such as giving newbs deckbuilding tips and the link to the forums and balancing the effectiveness of decks in PvE combat by introducing new FG decks, making AI changes, etc. That would do more to make the game better than changing the rarity and power of rares.

[furballdn]

This thread is actually a few rants clumped into one, but they mostly follow on the mindset of newbies, so I'll try to go more in depth.

Impatient newbies. This is a big one, with newbies saying right off the bat, "How do I kill FGs?". There's quite a huge difficulty gap from AI3 to above, and FGs have their own little niche high above AI3 in difficulty. Now I know that a majority of players come from kong for the badges (I was one), but telling them to use MA, LS, or LA to kill FGs does not help. They'll just take you at your word, get enough money for a cheap deck, keep clicking FGs until they win, get the badge, then leave. We want them to stay, so giving them the straightforward way for the badge does not help at all. It'd be like playing a puzzle game while having a walkthrough in another window. They're not playing for the sake of playing, but for the sake of badges and completeness. How do we stop this? A few are determined to be badge hunters, but most can be convinced and drawn into the game of EtG if they were to fully immerse themselves in the elements, cards, and strategies instead of speeding their way to get a badge and then drop out. Encourage newer players to slow down, develop their strategies, and play with the metagame instead of just speedrunning a badge. You give a man a fish and he eats for a day, but you teach a man to fish and he eats for a lifetime. Teach newer players how to play, not what to play.

[Drake_XIV]

Let's see if I can say something that isn't stupid...

What if we fragmented this so-called intermediate level?  Consider the average player, or at least the ones that I do know.  They will quit before they seek help from a game-based community.  Maybe peek into a chatroom, but that's as far as they'll go.  One way to fix that is to, as previously suggested, add more quests.  Make upgrading cards slightly easier.  This would keep potential mainstays in the system long enough that they will stick.

[OldTrees]

Let's see if I can say something that isn't stupid...

What if we fragmented this so-called intermediate level?

The intermediate level is the jump from the weak fair opponent (AI3) to the cheater (AI5). AI4 is in the gap in some perspective but not in others. The lesson learned in the intermediate level is how to beat a cheater. How can we make that easier to learn?

[Absol]

In this game, we can beat the cheater by:
1. Using powerful cards (upgrades)
2. Using powerful playstyle (strategy against AI)

If upgrades are made initially easier, then it becomes much easier to beat the cheater. With just 6 upgrades, one can make decks so powerful to farm FG. This is the number of upgrades absolutely needed to bypass that bridge.

[OldTrees]

In this game, we can beat the cheater by:
1. Using powerful cards (upgrades)
2. Using powerful playstyle (strategy against AI)

If upgrades are made initially easier, then it becomes much easier to beat the cheater. With just 6 upgrades, one can make decks so powerful to farm FG. This is the number of upgrades absolutely needed to bypass that bridge.

The cheater has upgrades as well. They are the answer to upped pvp. Not the answer of how to beat the cheater.

How do  we teach powerful playstyles better?

[neuroleptics]

Well, concerning this topic, the right is to be earned. Want rares? farm!!! We cannot deny there're lots of people who wants an easy way around. Should have told those people no toil, you do not reap.
I can still remember how i farm for the rares for at least 1 month non-stop, yet if there're people who get that by cheating or whatever..... that would not be fair to all who did the same.
But i guess if they use the shortcuts, we should have an edge over them, since they will definitely be lacking in strategies. Noob as i'm in this game, i can still proudly say that i'm gonna be superior against those kind of players.

[memimemi]

If upgrades are made initially easier, then it becomes much easier to beat the cheater. With just 6 upgrades, one can make decks so powerful to farm FG. This is the number of upgrades absolutely needed to bypass that bridge.

The cheater has upgrades as well. They are the answer to upped pvp. Not the answer of how to beat the cheater.

How do  we teach powerful playstyles better?

By offering PvP tutorials.  By volunteering to be in chat, explaining (ever so patiently!) synergy, quantum balance, and the like to newbs.  By engaging new players in creative deckbuilding, while offering suggestions for improvement rather than judgements of existant deckbuilding skills/knowledge.

By being the change, essentially.  5 minutes in PvP with a veteran opponent, who is willing to explain how hir deck works, turn by turn, is worth far more than many hours of grinding the same old AI3, when it comes to learning.

I've proposed it elsewhere, and will do it again, here: we need a group of PvP instructors, and a PvP system without the time limits (or with longer ones, whatever), to allow for questions and answers to be exchanged every turn.  We need a dedicated group of veterans (Engineers, looking at you here) who can lurk chat, and discuss possibilities with newbs, while they build their decks.

Finally, we need to all remember just how frustrating it was to finally have the basics down, only to be slaughtered by FGs and Arena decks.  With that in mind, it becomes easier to encourage perseverance in newbs; instead of "we all had to do it, suck it up," we should be saying "here are the opportunities to learn strategies and counter-strategies that will help you in future deckbuilding."

Just a few  for the pile.

edit: formatting error

[Annele]

This may be completely off topic, though I'm not entirely sure what is on-topic, but I've heard some newbs complain/state/suggest that the beginning of the game is fun, the endgame is fun, but there is a hefty distance between them, one that is not so fun. I really do believe that another level between AI3 and FG would be beneficial. T50 used to be this, and now arena is here, though I personally think we need something more. Not random, like AI4, but not eternal, like AIs 2,3 and 5. Something like a set of decks that changes every week or something.
I do not know if what I am saying makes sense, or is even able to be implemented. Either way, this is my 2 .

[Drake_XIV]

So, that Mentor program...