Rare Card?

[Nume]

No I mean it has a special unique effect that is different than what regular cards do. I'm not saying that fractal definitely shouldn't be a rare, as I could see reason for it being rare, however that doesnt mean miracle shouldnt be a rare. Anyways I dont really see why it matters so much so yeah... At this point lets just agree to disagree .

[mogv]

No I mean it has a special unique effect that is different than what regular cards do. I'm not saying that fractal definitely shouldn't be a rare, as I could see reason for it being rare, however that doesnt mean miracle shouldnt be a rare. Anyways I dont really see why it matters so much so yeah... At this point lets just agree to disagree .

It's just the lack of constistency in elements that pisses me off sometimes. Lot of wording flaws, unexplained abilities etc... And now we have Miracle which is a rare. Sure I don't mind it being a rare as long as there is something to back it up. Simply saying it was the only unique card (in the sense that it drains your own quanta) at the time just wont cut it. Times have changed...

[kobisjeruk]

Honestly don't even go there with your argument. Miracle was unique because of its self quanta draining side effect NOT because of it's healing ability. If you honestly use that as your main argument then Firefly Queen should be rare because it is the only card which produces fireflies :S

i try to stay away from overheated arguments like this (due to the nature of this particular forum) but what kind of proof do you have to substantiate your claim as to the reason behind miracles' rarity? did you read anywhere zanz saying miracle was made rare precisely because it drain all your quanta as part of the spell's effect?

"Honestly don't even go there..." et tu

It's just the lack of constistency in elements that pisses me off sometimes. Lot of wording flaws, unexplained abilities etc... And now we have Miracle which is a rare. Sure I don't mind it being a rare as long as there is something to back it up. Simply saying it was the only unique card (in the sense that it drains your own quanta) at the time just wont cut it. Times have changed...

again you're seeing just a facet of miracle uniqueness which you based your argument on. i was not here in the early days, not when miracle came out at least so i do not know for sure if the "drain all your remaining  quanta" clause was tacked on before or after testing (fractal got it after testing, and i'm certain that it was based on miracle) but i'm sure miracle effect is enough to make it a rare.
sure, both create huge effects, the 'not lose next turn because i'm back to max life -1' and 'from 100 to 0 hp in 10sec, you're dead, boom' but fractal makea you jump through hoops (available-target/shield/sundial/cards-in-hand/quanta-available) but miracle only need you casting it to get full advantage of going back to max hp -1, doesnt matter if you're at 10 hp or 1 hp, theres no other condition to miracle happening apart from having 15 | 12 to cast it
if you cant see just how powerful that effect is, either you're just too thick or you're just being a whiner and needing some attention

[Hobnob5000]

Cards aren't categorised into Rare and Common by their Quanta-comsuming effects. Funnily enough, it's by the actual effects of the cards. Miracle is very often a LOT more useful than Fractal. Look how well Light is doing in the War, that is a lot down to Miracle. That's why it's rare, it's very powerful. Not because it consumes all quanta. You're argument has no substance.

[mogv]

Cards aren't categorised into Rare and Common by their Quanta-comsuming effects. Funnily enough, it's by the actual effects of the cards. Miracle is very often a LOT more useful than Fractal. Look how well Light is doing in the War, that is a lot down to Miracle. That's why it's rare, it's very powerful. Not because it consumes all quanta. You're argument has no substance.

Your argument: It's rare because its very powerful.
What is made out of that: Zanz intenionally created an overpowered card and made it rare.
My argument: The only thing that distinguised miracle from the rest of the cards is the fact that it drains all your quanta which is why it is rare. What other reason would there be?

[Hobnob5000]

Cards aren't categorised into Rare and Common by their Quanta-comsuming effects. Funnily enough, it's by the actual effects of the cards. Miracle is very often a LOT more useful than Fractal. Look how well Light is doing in the War, that is a lot down to Miracle. That's why it's rare, it's very powerful. Not because it consumes all quanta. You're argument has no substance.

Your argument: It's rare because its very powerful.
What is made out of that: Zanz intenionally created an overpowered card and made it rare.
My argument: The only thing that distinguised miracle from the rest of the cards is the fact that it drains all your quanta which is why it is rare. What other reason would there be?

Exactly, Zanz didn't want all the cards to be of equal value and power, so he made some powerful ones, but made them rare. The fact that it drains all :Light Quanta is not what distinguishes it. It's ability does. You would most likely use miracle when you have about 20 health or so, so it heals around 80 when used. Now a card that heals 80 is VERY powerful, so to balance it slightly, Zanz made it drain all Light. However, that is just so it isn't too overpowered. Fractal, on the other hand, is not very powerful. Sure, it's powerful, but not in the same league as miracle. However, if it didn't drain all , then it would be obscenely overpowered. He added in the same effect of Miracle to balance it. This does not necessarily make it a rare.
Another example is Titan. Now compare it to a Sapphire charger. Most people would use Titan because of it's Momentum, but if Titan is a rare, why not make Charger a rare? There's a magnitude of reasons for this, such as Titan's Hp, it's attack, etc.

What you must understand is that the cards are made rare due to how strong their abilities are. Not because of how they absorb quanta. I can't understand how you don't see that

[mogv]

Cards aren't categorised into Rare and Common by their Quanta-comsuming effects. Funnily enough, it's by the actual effects of the cards. Miracle is very often a LOT more useful than Fractal. Look how well Light is doing in the War, that is a lot down to Miracle. That's why it's rare, it's very powerful. Not because it consumes all quanta. You're argument has no substance.

Your argument: It's rare because its very powerful.
What is made out of that: Zanz intenionally created an overpowered card and made it rare.
My argument: The only thing that distinguised miracle from the rest of the cards is the fact that it drains all your quanta which is why it is rare. What other reason would there be?

Exactly, Zanz didn't want all the cards to be of equal value and power, so he made some powerful ones, but made them rare. The fact that it drains all :Light Quanta is not what distinguishes it. It's ability does. You would most likely use miracle when you have about 20 health or so, so it heals around 80 when used. Now a card that heals 80 is VERY powerful, so to balance it slightly, Zanz made it drain all Light. However, that is just so it isn't too overpowered. Fractal, on the other hand, is not very powerful. Sure, it's powerful, but not in the same league as miracle. However, if it didn't drain all , then it would be obscenely overpowered. He added in the same effect of Miracle to balance it. This does not necessarily make it a rare.
Another example is Titan. Now compare it to a Sapphire charger. Most people would use Titan because of it's Momentum, but if Titan is a rare, why not make Charger a rare? There's a magnitude of reasons for this, such as Titan's Hp, it's attack, etc.

What you must understand is that the cards are made rare due to how strong their abilities are. Not because of how they absorb quanta. I can't understand how you don't see that

So miracle is more powerful than the bazaar cards because of its ability. The only way to make it a normal card and not overpowered was its side effect of draining all your quanta. Only thing that doesnt make fractal overpowered is the same effect.


Titan is rare because it is a weapon, you cannot compare weapons and creatures.

[Bloodshadow]

Mogv, you need to understand one thing. Powerful is not equivalent to overpowered. Miracle is powerful, but it is not overpowered because it drains all . However, it is still more powerful than Fractal, hence why it's rare and Fractal isn't.

[Mastermind79]

Mogv, you need to understand one thing. Powerful is not equivalent to overpowered. Miracle is powerful, but it is not overpowered because it drains all . However, it is still more powerful than Fractal, hence why it's rare and Fractal isn't.

Personally, I consider Fractal to be OP. So many card ideas are shot down simply due to "Fractal +this = OP" But it's too late now, and there's nothing you can do about it short of creating new AI's with Fractal and destroying all of the Fractals in the playerbase. Which is unfeasible.


I believe gl1tch has it right:

...how would you balance the game?

[...]

:aethermark Fractal.  The only broken card in the entire game.  One of the fundamental rules of deck building is only six of a card, and this breaks that rule.  There's a reason that rule exists.  I say this card is broken, because by itself without any combos, it is in many cases an "I win" card.  For example.
If you manage to fractal chargers, there is not much your opponent can do.
If you manage to fractal RoL with hope on the field, there isn't anything your opponent can do.  (Don't say mass creature control, fractal guarantees you have at least one more RoL in your hand)
If you manage to fractal devourers, there is not much your opponent can do.  (Except go rainbow)
But my beef with fractal goes beyond that.  Several card ideas have been ruined single handedly by fractals ability to overpower many cards.  You can't make a mass buff because of fractal+spark.  You can't make a mass switch to dark/death because of fractal+spark+nightfall. 

[..]

Sorry to Gl1tch if you don't want me to leave this up, just PM me.

[mogv]

Mogv, you need to understand one thing. Powerful is not equivalent to overpowered. Miracle is powerful, but it is not overpowered because it drains all . However, it is still more powerful than Fractal, hence why it's rare and Fractal isn't.

I understand the power of Miracle and the pointlessness of firefly, but I mean Miracle isn't the only powerful card out there so why should it be treated as a rare?

[eh pewwwp]

Mogv, you need to understand one thing. Powerful is not equivalent to overpowered. Miracle is powerful, but it is not overpowered because it drains all . However, it is still more powerful than Fractal, hence why it's rare and Fractal isn't.

I understand the power of Miracle and the pointlessness of firefly, but I mean Miracle isn't the only powerful card out there so why should it be treated as a rare?

first of all...you are a troll, your arguing just to argue. But i shall feed the troll

alot of the other cards out there are that are powerful are also rares. These cards you claim to be powerful (firefly queen/fractal) can be stopped. all you need to do it lobo the queen and its a useless 3l7. fractal, in some strategies, can be taken down easily. Physallias (2/2 with poison) can all be taken  out buy 2 plagues and in 1 turn its even again. Miracle cannot be stopped; your life will be "full" again no matter what, there is no equalling besides attacking some more. it can also buy you time or give you the upper hand, if youre going to win the next turn but are going to run out of hp, boom ur right back ontop and you'll win, or what if next couple turns you get a strain of phase shields, nullifying their attack. it adds more turn to you to make a comeback. and it needs to suck all your quantums because unless you've fractaled a butt load ray of lights and maxed out on pillars, you will be screwed if you missed played it; you may not be able to play any card the next turn(s) to save yourself and you'll still be in trouble. this is why it is rare. these effects won't happen with just one phoenix or whatever you call powerful. now shut up you've been disproved yet again 

[BluePriest]

Miracle is rare because of its ability. In any game there are several tiers
Bottom Tier:No cards should fit into this.
Low Tier:They arent worthless, but arent realy useful either
Middle Tier:The majority of cards should fit into this
High Tier:These cards are more useful, and stronger
God Tier:Broken. They are too powerful. They shouldnt be in the game for any reason whatsoever

Miracle is a high tier card. There is nothing wrong with that. Its effect is really pwoerful, so it has a good drawback.
Fractal really isnt that useful unless you use it with hope and RoLs. Thats the only REAL use for it. Otherwise its just creature spamming.

And other cards allow you to have more than 6 as well. PU, and Dejavu and graboids. They all allow you to have more than 6 of a specific creature.

Artic Squid. Thats easy to determine why its rare. Have 6 on the field, and being able to freeze for 3 turns, that means you can lock up almost your entire opponents board so that they cant do anything.