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Xoff

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Randomness in Elements https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=7203.msg78002#msg78002
« on: May 30, 2010, 10:36:10 am »
I feel there is a big problem in the randomness of elements.
every days examples :

 - I have ten quantum pillars and don't get any gravity quantum during 2 turns (odds are less than 1/1'000'000'000)
 - I play against TOP50 and still have the same opponents
 - Devourers always eat my most wanted quanta
 - I don't get any cards with the oracle, and suddenly i got three nymphs in a row during the week-end

Please, add your suspicious experience in this thread, and any solution you think about.

Offline Demagog

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Re: Randomness in Elements https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=7203.msg78013#msg78013
« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2010, 10:58:26 am »
It's definitely biased. Sometimes this is good, sometimes it's bad. I did author the devourer bias topic, afterall, so it's kinda obvious what my opinion is. But like I said, it can be good. Today I had about seven games in a row where I won a card from the second spin, two of which I won all three spins and another of which I won two of the spins. I mean, no one is that lucky, but if I am, I'm headed for Vegas in a few months when I'm 21. Oh, and I was recently testing a bunch of decks for the tournament yesterday, and one said deck used two arsenics. In 90% of the games they were either both very close to the bottom, or very close to the top. I mean either I drew them both at the start of the game or I didn't draw one until I had fewer than 10 cards left. This leads me to believe that cards next tou each other in your deck are often close together... It could be tested by taking a deck of 30 different cards and recording your drawing order over 100 games. It wouldn't take too long either if you just use two accounts and duel yourself... You could do 2 decks at once. A good deck would probably be 6 other cards and then 2 cards from each element.

Malduk

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Re: Randomness in Elements https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=7203.msg78057#msg78057
« Reply #2 on: May 30, 2010, 12:48:33 pm »
My guess would be that Zanz just took some existing RNG function and simply implemented it. If that is the case, than the game is random enough to be considered a pure random. What you are experiencing is a psychological effect where you remember and taking into account all the "fishy" random results, while forgetting millions of other situations where random distribution of cards/quanta/whatever went as expected.

But IMO, this game has too much "luck" factor (which is directly connected to RNG function). For example percentage based shields or devouring/generating quanta. I'd prefer if its made that say Dusk shield protects against every other creature in every turn, than having one turn all misses, second turn 70% misses, third turn all hits etc etc.

Offline Chemist

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Re: Randomness in Elements https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=7203.msg78089#msg78089
« Reply #3 on: May 30, 2010, 02:11:17 pm »
- I have ten quantum pillars and don't get any gravity quantum during 2 turns (odds are less than 1/1'000'000'000)
...more like 1:185 :P .

And I think people are underestimating the sheer number of all possible unlikely events. It's unlikely that both Arsenics would be close to the bottom, it's unlikely they would be close to the top, it's unlikely you would get only pillars, it's unlikely you would get no pillars, it's unlikely you would get the same hand twice in a row, it's unlikely you would get the same cards in your hand twice in row (Ok maybe not, but people would think it's unlikely), it's unlikely for your Eternity to be the last card in your deck, etc (we could go on and on here). There are lots of potentially unlikely things that could happen in any game or in between them, so it should actually be very unlikely for you to never encounter anything unlikely. But whenever someone encounters the same unlikely event twice in four games or so they start a thread saying the random number generator is broken...

I'd say it's working just fine. The Devourers are bugged, but that's not a RNG issue.

Xoff

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Re: Randomness in Elements https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=7203.msg78091#msg78091
« Reply #4 on: May 30, 2010, 02:22:10 pm »
- I have ten quantum pillars and don't get any gravity quantum during 2 turns (odds are less than 1/1'000'000'000)
...more like 1:185 :P .
I have 10 pillars, so I produce 30 random quantum a turn, and 60 quantum in 2 turns.
The probability of not producing one type of quanta is (1-1/12)^60 =  :o 1/185

LOL you are right, I failed my first computation...  :))

MrSexington

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Re: Randomness in Elements https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=7203.msg78127#msg78127
« Reply #5 on: May 30, 2010, 04:10:15 pm »
I'm a huge proponent of the randomness in Elements.

I like them mostly for the same reason I like many other things about Elements -- it's something that separates it from MTG.  Now there are a few "random" cards in MTG here or there, but when the Quantum Towers are one of the staples of the game, the randomness becomes part of the foundation of the game.

I like the Quantum Tower, Throne Shields, Chaos Seeds, Mutation, Fallen Druids, and Fate Eggs and I wish there were more of them.

There need to be more cards that have an effect x% of the time.

 :-X

Offline xdude

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Re: Randomness in Elements https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=7203.msg78133#msg78133
« Reply #6 on: May 30, 2010, 04:25:46 pm »
I'm a huge proponent of the randomness in Elements.

I like them mostly for the same reason I like many other things about Elements -- it's something that separates it from MTG.  Now there are a few "random" cards in MTG here or there, but when the Quantum Towers are one of the staples of the game, the randomness becomes part of the foundation of the game.

I like the Quantum Tower, Throne Shields, Chaos Seeds, Mutation, Fallen Druids, and Fate Eggs and I wish there were more of them.

There need to be more cards that have an effect x% of the time.

 :-X
You mean THORN shields, right?
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PuppyChow

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Re: Randomness in Elements https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=7203.msg78139#msg78139
« Reply #7 on: May 30, 2010, 04:37:03 pm »
It is biased, but not intentionally. Basically, ActionScript (the language this game is programmed in) has a sucky RNG so some bias cannot be helped.

Offline Glitch

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Re: Randomness in Elements https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=7203.msg78146#msg78146
« Reply #8 on: May 30, 2010, 04:45:17 pm »
I'm a huge proponent of the randomness in Elements.

I like them mostly for the same reason I like many other things about Elements -- it's something that separates it from MTG.  Now there are a few "random" cards in MTG here or there, but when the Quantum Towers are one of the staples of the game, the randomness becomes part of the foundation of the game.

I like the Quantum Tower, Throne Shields, Chaos Seeds, Mutation, Fallen Druids, and Fate Eggs and I wish there were more of them.

There need to be more cards that have an effect x% of the time.

 :-X
You mean THORN shields, right?
No he means throne shields.

Throne shield  :light :light :light
All your creatures get +0/+1

killfer8

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Re: Randomness in Elements https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=7203.msg78149#msg78149
« Reply #9 on: May 30, 2010, 04:46:19 pm »
I have no nymphs but a  :water one. That buddha hates me

killfer8

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Re: Randomness in Elements https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=7203.msg78150#msg78150
« Reply #10 on: May 30, 2010, 04:46:52 pm »
I'm a huge proponent of the randomness in Elements.

I like them mostly for the same reason I like many other things about Elements -- it's something that separates it from MTG.  Now there are a few "random" cards in MTG here or there, but when the Quantum Towers are one of the staples of the game, the randomness becomes part of the foundation of the game.

I like the Quantum Tower, Throne Shields, Chaos Seeds, Mutation, Fallen Druids, and Fate Eggs and I wish there were more of them.

There need to be more cards that have an effect x% of the time.

 :-X
You mean THORN shields, right?
No he means throne shields.

Throne shield  :light :light :light
All your creatures get +0/+1
Huh? That Exists?

finkel

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Re: Randomness in Elements https://elementscommunity.org/forum/index.php?topic=7203.msg78451#msg78451
« Reply #11 on: May 31, 2010, 02:43:40 am »
I'm a huge proponent of the randomness in Elements.

I like them mostly for the same reason I like many other things about Elements -- it's something that separates it from MTG.  Now there are a few "random" cards in MTG here or there, but when the Quantum Towers are one of the staples of the game, the randomness becomes part of the foundation of the game.

I like the Quantum Tower, Throne Shields, Chaos Seeds, Mutation, Fallen Druids, and Fate Eggs and I wish there were more of them.

There need to be more cards that have an effect x% of the time.

 :-X
You mean THORN shields, right?
No he means throne shields.

Throne shield  :light :light :light
All your creatures get +0/+1
Huh? That Exists?
It used to, but Elements only uses royalty-free content now.

 

anything
blarg: