Poll: Most Overpowered #2

[Micah2oo4]

Gues im the only that hates "Rainbow" FG >.>
He is beatable but takes too damn long, ive only beat him without stalling 3 times (I always get a bad hand and when ever i play a perm/creature poof its gone >.>

[plastiqe]

Hrmm... way to contribute to the discussion... 'if you play against me I'll cheat'.. .. thanks for the heads up.  : /

As long as Sundial and Hourglass are the only way to draw additional cards, I consider them both OP.  Drawing cards in a CCG is huge.. take two decks of relative power, whichever one is able to get more cards in play is probably going to win.  I'm in favour of limiting Hasten and making it a rather expensive ability, especially when it's reusable.

Another issue with reducing Sundial to 1 turn... wouldn't that just put Phase Shield back in the spotlight and everbody would be packing 6 of em into thier deck?  I really think there needs to be more ways to make permanents a little less.. permanent.

[plastiqe]

NO. 
No random thread hi-jacking. 
If you want to talk about AI targeting priorities, take it to the AI targeting priorities thread.






Now, this notion that pvp is totally broken or unavailable is incorrect.  Everybody is going to have different experiences, but I play PvP a lot and I find that 9/10 games have no desync issues at all.  Again, you can not only balance around player vs. AI, you should consider all aspects of the game when balancing cards.

Hope you don't mind if I hijack your thread a bit Plastiqe.. (on topic hijacking is perfectly fine)
What is the best way to nerf sundial in your opinion?
1. Make it last 1 turn
2. Increase its casting cost
3. Increase the "hasten" ability cost
4. Remove completely hasten
5. Don't nerf it, buff some other cards instead
6. Other solution

I think jmizzle has the best suggestion, increase casting cost, remove hasten, add cantrip.

On option #6, there are relatively few ways to deal with permanents.  This is part of the reason why Sundial is so strong, if you don't have either Fire, Darkness, or Earth/Gravity you've got no counters when your opponent's strategy involves weapons, shields or artifacts.  I think more elements should have ways to deal with permanents.

[plastiqe]

If we want to know what cards are OP and what are not, there is a very easy way to see it: just look at the most commonly used cards in anti-False God rainbow decks. These cards are all chosen because they are relatively powerful, in other words OP.

Playing against False Gods may be endgame for some of people, it is not true for everybody that plays Elements.  So while effectivness against FG's is a factor, it isn't the only one.  The old pvp vs pve debate applies here, you should consider all aspects of the game when balancing cards.




On Supernova:  "This to me is hands down the most overpowered card in the game.  22 free quantum with no drawback (other than nominal casting cost) is just way way way too fast.  This card, more than any other, is responsible for rainbow deck dominance."

Yet, looking at the poll Quantum Tower is currently ahead of Supernova in OP voting.  Anyone care to take up the case of QT and explain why they voted for it?

[Scaredgirl]

Removing hasten from Sundial is a bad idea imo. It's always a bad idea to nerf a card by taking one of its abilities away because you can achieve the same effect for example simply by upping the cost.

At the moment there are only two cards in this game that can draw cards (not enough) and I don't see any reason why we should remove the other one.

I would choose option 1 - make Sundial last only one turn. It's simple yet effective. It wouldn't by any means gimp the card, and I'm sure people would still use it in their rainbow decks. I know I would.

[Scaredgirl]

Just a note, immortality doesn't unfreeze a critter. It removes the frozen animation, but the creature still can't attack or use abilities until the freeze duration ends.

Are you sure?  I'm almost 100% sure it removes the frozen status.

Immortality removes freeze. This is a fact.

[Scaredgirl]

Just a note, immortality doesn't unfreeze a critter. It removes the frozen animation, but the creature still can't attack or use abilities until the freeze duration ends.

Are you sure?  I'm almost 100% sure it removes the frozen status.

Ahh... you're right.  I just tested it.

Ok.. I guess it only removes the animation then. I missed that part.

You could say that it removes the freeze (like seen in the image) but the creature is so confused on what happened that he cannot attack.

[Scaredgirl]

I guess people didn't really read my post about Congeal close enough. I said I was torn between Congeal and Supernova. What this means is that I am on the fence whether it is overpowered or not. I actually believe that Supernova is more powerful than Congeal, but has a balanced casting cost. I was merely providing an argument for Congeal, that it does not have a balanced casting cost for what it does. One quantum for four turns is a ton, and that is only one instance of the card, not counting Arctic Octopus.

I don't think Congeal is OP at all. It's only effective in poison decks but that's mainly because we have so little counter to poison (one crappy card that is useless against all non-poison decks). So the problem is not Congeal, it's lack of poison counter. In any other kind of deck Congeal is not that great.

If we want to know what cards are OP and what are not, there is a very easy way to see it: just look at the most commonly used cards in anti-False God rainbow decks. These cards are all chosen because they are relatively powerful, in other words OP.

If Congeal was OP, it would be used in anti-False God decks.

[Scaredgirl]

I understand, SG. I was merely making a claim for Congeal, and I understand exactly why it isn't overpowered, but I guess if playing the devil's advocate isn't allowed, then I'll just post what I really think, which is that Supernova, not Congeal, is overpowered. It allows for Rainbow decks to get a huge burst in quanta in order to play the cheap, effective cards.

You say you understand why Congeal isn't overpowered but still you..

• chose it as your #2 most overpowered card
• suggest that it should be nerfed to last only 2 and 3 turns

Um.. what?

[Scaredgirl]

Playing against False Gods may be endgame for some of people, it is not true for everybody that plays Elements.  So while effectivness against FG's is a factor, it isn't the only one.  The old pvp vs pve debate applies here, you should consider all aspects of the game when balancing cards.

True, but most PvP rainbow decks are carbon copies of anti-False God decks. Cards are the same, only the strategy changes. Those decks do not have any cards that are great against FG's but useless in PvP.

I personally don't think that Quantum Towers are overpowered at the moment. The fact that they produce random quanta balances out the fact that they produce three instead of the normal one. And given that they are pillars, they are vulnerable to any anti-pillar, anti-permanent strategy. If Zanzarino ever makes enough 'Other' cards to make an entire deck, the cost of those creatures/spells/permanents would have to be either astronomically high to counterbalance the sheer amount of quanta produced by QTs (thus making those cards almost impossible to play in a deck without QTs or nova/SN), or decrease the amount of random quanta produced to two instead of three.

People who complain about Quantum Towers being OP don't really understand how quantum production in this game works. Like I've said a million times before, the problem is not Quantum Towers, it's the cheap yet powerful cards like Otyugh, Steal, etc. Only thing you need to do is nerf some of the cards and this whole Quantum Tower thing will go away.

Same thing with poison. Poison itself is not really the problem and nerfing poison would be a horrible solution. The problem is that we don't have enough cards that counter poison. For example we could use a card that heals you and cures a specific number of poison like 10 or something. Cards like that would be great because they wouldn't be totally useless against non-poison decks.

We should always think of the outside reasons why a card is powerful, not just focus on the card itself.

[Tonberry]

But that only works against AIs anyways.

*Edit*

Also if anything the AI targetting towers over sundials is a flaw in the AI not so much the sundials itself because I'm pretty sure the AI has other weird targetting features such as the bonewall and steal/destroy abilities.

[Tonberry]

Looking at the list I chose poison, fallen druid and pulverizer taken into account the different gameplays/modes and future modes (pvp).
But I think as stated by other people there are much more powerful cards that are not mentioned in the list (Steal. Otyugh etc.)

Sundial: Why I don't think it's overpowered
Can be destroyed
Lasts 2 turns
FG Arguement:
Well considering FGs have double your hp, 3x mark and can break the 6 card limit and 60 deck limit... whatever you use to beat them can't really be deemed overpowered because the FGs are by and large overpowered; it is impossible to have a 100% win rate against them even though their deck will not change and therefore adapt to new discoveries/anti-FG decks.

Fallen Druid:
Incomparison with a lot of cards people have deemed "overpowered" this little green creature can make a harmless 1:1 skeleton into a 20:20 creature with immaterial or better yet an army of skeletons into god knows what with the ability to clear your entire field of towers/pillars, creatures permanents etc.

Pulverizer was mentioned by someone else and same with Poison.