Poll: Most Overpowered #2

[cipher_nemo]

I personally don't think that Quantum Towers are overpowered at the moment. The fact that they produce random quanta balances out the fact that they produce three instead of the normal one.

I could go either way on the Quantum Towers position. I see valid arguments on both sides.

At least most of us can agree on Sun Dials, lol. I love using them, but I know they're over-powered. I think the way they're broken in Kongregate balances them a little better.

[cipher_nemo]

Bonewall is only targeted before your other permanents because it costs more. Period. There has to be some sort of priority system in place with the AI, and that's what exists, so exploit away.

That is the truth.

And for most of our gameplay (until the next update), we're all playing against the AI so that naturally gets more attention. If you're playing more PvP, then you're playing a broken system with exploits (known issues about "desynchronization" with clients).

It would be nice to have a selectable AI level that we could tweak. If we want more rewards from our matches about the computer, then we could turn up the AI, and if we were happy with less, we could turn it down (to what it already is now). It would add quite a bit of enjoyment to the game to be able to control what sort of AI we want and have rewards reflect that. Much like the old-school chess games like Chessmaster. But I know, that's a lot to ask of a flash-based CCG and its small-shop developer.

[cipher_nemo]

Gues im the only that hates "Rainbow" FG >.>
He is beatable but takes too damn long, ive only beat him without stalling 3 times (I always get a bad hand and when ever i play a perm/creature poof its gone >.>

Yeah, Rainbow is tough. But the times I've spent the time on him, he was actually faster than far easier false gods like Miracle, Gemini, or Incarnate. With false gods like Rainbow and Hermes, either you win quickly or you lose quickly.

[cipher_nemo]

Playing against False Gods may be endgame for some of people, it is not true for everybody that plays Elements.  So while effectivness against FG's is a factor, it isn't the only one.  The old pvp vs pve debate applies here, you should consider all aspects of the game when balancing cards.

True, there are three end-game areas such as false god farming, top 50 deck, and pvp. Just remember that pvp is broken right now until hopefully the next update. I can play against any deck you have and win most of the time if I use exploits with "de-synchronization". You could do the same. Pvp is broken for the moment, so I wouldn't call it end-game at all right now even though it is supposed to be end-game.

[cipher_nemo]

Now, this notion that pvp is totally broken or unavailable is incorrect.  Everybody is going to have different experiences, but I play PvP a lot and I find that 9/10 games have no desync issues at all.  Again, you can not only balance around player vs. AI, you should consider all aspects of the game when balancing cards.

LOL. Ok, plastiqe, feel free to take any deck against me in PvP. I'll play on Kongregate and make use of desync exploits and I'll beat you most of the time. Sorry, plastiqe, but PvP is broken and it's a known issue. It's not once in a while or such, it's broken under very specific conditions that people can exploit. It's why I don't bother with PvP right now until it's fixed.

[cipher_nemo]

Hrmm... way to contribute to the discussion... 'if you play against me I'll cheat'.. .. thanks for the heads up.  : /

I was giving you an example. Don't play stupid.

[cipher_nemo]

If we want to know what cards are OP and what are not, there is a very easy way to see it: just look at the most commonly used cards in anti-False God rainbow decks. These cards are all chosen because they are relatively powerful, in other words OP.

If Congeal was OP, it would be used in anti-False God decks.

I like to avoid abbreviations, so I'll spell it out: quoted for truth.

[cipher_nemo]

You could say that it removes the freeze (like seen in the image) but the creature is so confused on what happened that he cannot attack.

Or use his/her abilities. I haven't been congealed and then able to remove it with an Annubis enough to test it. I have done it a couple times, but I bet it was to creatures with no abilities and when I had a full play area of creatures, so didn't bother looking for the creature's attack points float above it.

[cipher_nemo]

Sundial: Why I don't think it's overpowered
Can be destroyed
Lasts 2 turns

Here's why I think Sun Dials are overpowered (and why I love them when farming false gods).

Actions for a 32 card minimalist deck with 2 Hourglasses, 6 Dials, and very lucky draws and quanta generation (automatically get 1 draw per turn):

• Turn 1: Protected, 1x Draw, Dial 1 played, 24 cards left
• Turn 2: Protected, 2x Draw, Hourglass 1 played, 22 cards left
• Turn 3: Protected, 2x Draw, Dial 2 played, 20 cards left
• Turn 4: Protected, 3x Draw, Hourglass 2 played, 17 cards left
• Turn 5: Protected, 3x Draw, Dial 3 played, 14 cards left
• Turn 6: Protected, 4x Draw, 10 cards left
• Turn 7: Protected, 3x Draw, Dial 4 played, 7 cards left
• Turn 8: Protected, 4x Draw, Eternity played, 3 cards left
• Turn 9: Protected, 3x Draw, Eternity ability, Dial 5 played, 1 card left
• Turn 10: Protected, 4x Draw potential, 1x actual Draw, Eternity ability, 1 card left
• Turn 11: Protected, 3x Draw potential, 1x actual Draw, Eternity ability, Dial 6 played, 1 card left
• Turn 12: Protected, 4x Draw potential, 1x actual Draw, Eternity ability, 1 card left
• Turn 13 and beyond: Bone Wall protection or Phase Shields, 3x Draw potential, 1x actual Draw, Eternity ability, 1 card left

You could still have a 43 card deck and draw through the entire deck with only two Hourglasses and six Dials in 12 turns. I'm adding some practicality here in having only two Hourglasses and putting the second one down on turn 4 instead of turn 3.

Game was either won by this time or locked in with a Bone Wall, Graveyards, Feral Bonds, and lots of creatures out. And this deck with the Dials was protected the entire time from any creature attacks. Only player targeted damage could get through, and Bone Wall protecting against weapons.

Even though I love using Dials, I'm sorry, but Dials are just overpowered. And if you didn't draw well to get the ones you need, you add some more drawing power with Hourglasses and you're set. Sealed win unless your opponent is wiping all of your creatures and permanents. It doesn't matter if the Dials get wiped once in a while, as there are six, and you can always protect them when you truly need them end-game of a match with Protect Artifact spells.

[cipher_nemo]

All you did was quote me without questioning any of my points heck quoting my previous post was completely redundant for your post. Also I guess what you wrote works if you are playing an AI with down syndrome cause going by what you wrote the other person did literally nothing the entire game.

What? Are you sure you wrote what you intended to say? LOL. Your words don't make any sense there. Re-read and clarify for me please. Why would I care about "questioning" your points? And quoting you is redundant? Huh? My only point is arguing that the Sun Dial is overpowered. I love the Sun Dial card though for my decks, but I recognize that it is overpowered compared to other cards because it's the cheapest enabler (draw power) that also doubles as a very effective shield that is 1.) unbroken by creatures with momentum, and 2.) stops an entire screen of creatures from attacking

As for my outline, it's just from the actions related to one side using a deck with Dials and a couple Hourglasses to show how quickly a deck is drawn all the way through while it is completely protected (under ideal conditions without the Dials or Hourglasses being destroyed, as is certainly possible). It's not meant to outline an entire match and all actions. That should have been obvious. If you want to see a whole match, feel free to create one and document the turns yourself.

Furthermore sundials stop the game for both players. Going on the delay aspect alone phase shields and bone walls could technically be called more "overpowered" if they are considered overpower to begin with.

You stated that incorrectly. It doesn't stop the "game" for players, it stops creature attacks for both players. That's a huge difference. So for decks that rely on creatures attacking, it's a show-stopper. But for decks that rely on control and build-up, or control and direct damage, the Dials are pure gold.

[cipher_nemo]

I like this idea. Increase the cost to 3 Time and add this type of effect, and it'd be perfect, I think.

Problem: it would break deck designs with Entrophy mark and Super Novas. Those decks use upgrade Dials since no casting cost.

But I do like the idea of removing hasten and giving it a draw card on play, as long as everything else stays the same.

Otherwise, I feel 1 turn of protection is a less deck-breaking nerf.

Also, if it costs three, drew only 1 card and protected for 1 turn, Hourglasses would be better cards.

[jmizzle7]

Another possibility could be to increase the casting cost, remove hasten, and give it a cantrip effect, like "When Sundial comes into play, draw a card." What do you think?