openEtG

[BluePriest]

Again, openEtG is a DIFFERENT game than Elements, and most of these stuff were added BECAUSE I wanted it to be different and not just a copy.

As this game is now (by your own admission) no longer EtG, and more or less being controlled by your own decisions and not the community, I would ask that you kindly lock this topic and create your own forum to handle discussion. Thank you for your consideration.

Moderators, as I stated earlier are aware of this topic. If they consider this  to be a problem, they will lock it. They are trying to contact Zanz to hear his thoughts on the matters, but until we hear from him, theres little to be said on the matter.

[Chapuz]

SUGGESTION - ARENA REPLACEMENT FOR LADDER SYSTEM
Ladder system:
The Ladder consists on 21 Tiers (0 to 20) with 21 steps on each Tier (from -10 to 10).

1. How to submit a deck to the Ladder
As Fippe said, people will have 3-4 decks. Let's call them 'deck X' (as they are called deck 1, 2, 3, etc.). In the editor, there will be 2 extra buttons: Submit to Ladder and Reset Ladder. That will submit the 'deck X' to the ladder that deck is, in step 0.

2. Which is your Tier and how does it work?
Each submitted deck of each player is in a Tier, independant from the Tier the player is.
Each deck the players have start at Tier 0 step 0, same as the player.
When a player enters to the Ladder, he plays against a random deck on the Tier the player is.
If the player wins, the player goes a step up and the deck he defeated goes a step down. If the Ladder deck defeats the player, the player goes a step down and the Ladder deck goes a step up.
When a Ladder deck is in step 10 and wins against a player, it goes to the next Tier on step 0. If a Ladder deck loses and is on step -10, it goes down a Tier in step 0.
Being on step -10 of Tier 0 and losing leaves the deck out of the Ladder. Being on Tier 20 step 10 and winning wins a damn hard achievement.
Same does the player: Win in step 10 --> Go to next Tier on step 0. Lose on step -10: Go down a Tier on step 0.
Making a Ladder deck reach Tier 20 will be hard, same as reaching Tier 20 it for the players.
Each Tier can optionally have a name, to make it more friendly. In BattleCry they are called Wooden Challenger, Wooden Contender, Wooden Veteran, Steel Challenger, Steel Contender, Steel Veteran (and continues with Copper, Silver, Gold, Platinum)

3. Rewards
Each time a deck defeats a player, the deck's owner gets some cash. The players get the same cash no matter which Tier the deck is.

4. Why is this better than the current Arena?
Because of the meta. There are 21 Tiers and if a meta dominates a Tier the players will make counters, making the unoriginal deck go down. The system will tend to have a predominated meta per Tier.

5. Banners (implemented with the Ladder system, for further implementation because it needs some art)
This is something that makes BattleCry much more addictive for new players and some vets too.
Banners consist in 3 parts: Background, main and second figure.
When players battle each other in PvP, they see the other player's banner (that's the cool thing).
When an account is created, the backgrounds are all unlocked and the player starts with only 1 main and second figure unlocked and automatically selected. Backgrounds and figures are unlocked progressively with quests and achievements. Putting a deck in Tier 1 unlocks a main or second figure, same with Tier 2, same with Tier 3, 4, 5 [...] 20.
The players can choose to have their banner with any background and unlocked main and second figure, having thousands of combinations with "not so much" simple minimalistic art. Banner art are simple one-colored non animated gifs, so they have transparent pixels.
If someone (specially artists) wants to have a better idea of how the banner system is implemented and how good it sees in BattleCry, send me a PM and I will give you mi kong account (I have all unlocked).

EDIT: Some banners so you can see how they look. The background, main (white-cream) and second (red) figures.

Spoiler for Hidden:

[inthisroom]

Odd that ITR was the person who spurred me to create openEtG because he implied that it was needed

Are you kidding me? Do not mention me, do not include me in any of this, do not state whatever you think I may have "implied".

Thank you.

[bripod]

until we hear from him, theres little to be said on the matter.

I beg to differ... We don't allow discussion of this depth about other games on the forum, so why should we allow this one?

The cards from the orig game have been changed at the whim of the dev team w/o community discussion.
A multitude of new unbalanced cards have been introduced.
Fundamental changes have been made to the way a user must now go about collecting cards.
An exploitable trading system has been implemented.
No way to carry over your card collection from EtG.

I was told that oEtG would be a great way to balance new card ideas...
how can you test new cards at such a rate of addition and with all the changes to current in game cards?

Obviously one/some of you have knowledge enough to create your own little forum and move this topic off of here...

[dawn to dusk]

lets just wait for zanz's opinion on the topic. if he disapproves it, it will be shut down. if he approves it, it will continue. its as simple as that. there is no need for any arguments yet.

zanz should hopefully return for a bit soon for server stuff so maybe he will see this. lets just hope.

[Chapuz]

lets just wait for zanz's opinion on the topic. if he disapproves it, it will be shut down. if he approves it, it will continue. its as simple as that. there is no need for any arguments yet.

zanz should hopefully return for a bit soon for server stuff so maybe he will see this. lets just hope.

Whoever shuts it down, will be because of 2 things:
1- respect to zanz
2- zanz wakes up and starts putting 1.000.000 things to EtG

If the devs of oEtG want to continue with it, zanz can't stop it. It has all the right to continue. If someone locks this thread, I'm sure someone will make a forum dedicated to oEtG, it's easy and free.

[bripod]

If someone locks this thread, I'm sure someone will make a forum dedicated to oEtG, it's easy and free.

Then why not show some respect to Zanz and move this to its own forum?

after all... it's easy and free.

[andretimpa]

The 1.4 update seemed well underway and Zanzarino seemed to show some enthusiasm for the new version, isn't it strange that all this work stopped right when some people thought they'd just did what they felt like with his game?

There's actually a 3 month gap between the last we heard from Zanz about 1.4 and serprex posting the first version of OEtG. The 1.4 announcement happenend in late July and Zanz kept us informed until late August. On mid December this was started. There had been no updates on this meantime (or since then for that matter).

The reaction I'd expect from Zanz would have been exactly the opposite of what you are saying that happened. If he was that uber excited I expected he would have come here and tell us to stop (which I'm pretty sure serprex and Fippe would have) and at least give us some news about 1.4, instead of just giving up. He has come to the forums ever since, so he either still doesn't knows about this or saw this thread and decided not to say a word.

This thread being on this forum is more a matter of convenience as most of the people likely to be interested in this are here (and I don't think this community needs splitting, on the contrary).

[Dm]

As someone who stalks "who's online", zanz has already seen this thread when he came back to fixnserver issues in december. He did not post, as we can see.

[ColorlessGreen]

As someone who stalks "who's online", zanz has already seen this thread when he came back to fixnserver issues in december. He did not post, as we can see.

Can confirm; witnessed personally.

[Chapuz]

Then let's focus on making this game big. Feedback on my last post?

Spoiler for Hidden:

SUGGESTION - ARENA REPLACEMENT FOR LADDER SYSTEM
Ladder system:
The Ladder consists on 21 Tiers (0 to 20) with 21 steps on each Tier (from -10 to 10).

1. How to submit a deck to the Ladder
As Fippe said, people will have 3-4 decks. Let's call them 'deck X' (as they are called deck 1, 2, 3, etc.). In the editor, there will be 2 extra buttons: Submit to Ladder and Reset Ladder. That will submit the 'deck X' to the ladder that deck is, in step 0.

2. Which is your Tier and how does it work?
Each submitted deck of each player is in a Tier, independant from the Tier the player is.
Each deck the players have start at Tier 0 step 0, same as the player.
When a player enters to the Ladder, he plays against a random deck on the Tier the player is.
If the player wins, the player goes a step up and the deck he defeated goes a step down. If the Ladder deck defeats the player, the player goes a step down and the Ladder deck goes a step up.
When a Ladder deck is in step 10 and wins against a player, it goes to the next Tier on step 0. If a Ladder deck loses and is on step -10, it goes down a Tier in step 0.
Being on step -10 of Tier 0 and losing leaves the deck out of the Ladder. Being on Tier 20 step 10 and winning wins a damn hard achievement.
Same does the player: Win in step 10 --> Go to next Tier on step 0. Lose on step -10: Go down a Tier on step 0.
Making a Ladder deck reach Tier 20 will be hard, same as reaching Tier 20 it for the players.
Each Tier can optionally have a name, to make it more friendly. In BattleCry they are called Wooden Challenger, Wooden Contender, Wooden Veteran, Steel Challenger, Steel Contender, Steel Veteran (and continues with Copper, Silver, Gold, Platinum)

3. Rewards
Each time a deck defeats a player, the deck's owner gets some cash. The players get the same cash no matter which Tier the deck is.

4. Why is this better than the current Arena?
Because of the meta. There are 21 Tiers and if a meta dominates a Tier the players will make counters, making the unoriginal deck go down. The system will tend to have a predominated meta per Tier.

5. Banners (implemented with the Ladder system, for further implementation because it needs some art)
This is something that makes BattleCry much more addictive for new players and some vets too.
Banners consist in 3 parts: Background, main and second figure.
When players battle each other in PvP, they see the other player's banner (that's the cool thing).
When an account is created, the backgrounds are all unlocked and the player starts with only 1 main and second figure unlocked and automatically selected. Backgrounds and figures are unlocked progressively with quests and achievements. Putting a deck in Tier 1 unlocks a main or second figure, same with Tier 2, same with Tier 3, 4, 5 [...] 20.
The players can choose to have their banner with any background and unlocked main and second figure, having thousands of combinations with "not so much" simple minimalistic art. Banner art are simple one-colored non animated gifs, so they have transparent pixels.
If someone (specially artists) wants to have a better idea of how the banner system is implemented and how good it sees in BattleCry, send me a PM and I will give you mi kong account (I have all unlocked).

EDIT: Some banners so you can see how they look. The background, main (white-cream) and second (red) figures.

Spoiler for Hidden:

[OdinVanguard]

until we hear from him, theres little to be said on the matter.

I beg to differ... We don't allow discussion of this depth about other games on the forum, so why should we allow this one?

The cards from the orig game have been changed at the whim of the dev team w/o community discussion. emphasis mine
Actually, many of these changes HAVE been discussed in various locations by the community. Booster based collection has been a very active thread. The armory is sitting chock full of cards waiting to be tested. etc.
A multitude of new unbalanced cards have been introduced.
Um… that is kind of the point. Its a proof of concept that openEtG can provide a valuable testing ground for new mechanics, features, etc. If we want to test new cards and new functionalities we need somewhere to actually use them. If anything I think its shown the power that openEtG has for doing so.
As for these being done at a whim: have a close look at the cards that have been implemented, then check the Armory section of the CI&A board. You will see that about 90% of the new cards came from there. These ARE the cards that the community has voted on as the best candidates for addition to the game. So once again, your assertion that there has been a lack of community input is FALSE.

Fundamental changes have been made to the way a user must now go about collecting cards.
This is true, and I think the primary motivation here is to test out a booster pack based system to see how it compares with the current bazaar based system. This has been debated ad-naseum by the community, but the only way to really know for sure is to try it out. So in my opinion this is wonderful because when / if Zanz ever decides to try adding something like it to the game he will have a great resource here to see what works what doesn't and discussion of how it could be improved.
An exploitable trading system has been implemented.
Once again, this is a test of new feature ideas. It is by no means perfected. With a booster based economy, you need some way to get particular cards you need or else grinding becomes far too tedious. Trading makes a nice way to get cards you need and get rid of those you dont... Its still a work in progress though.

No way to carry over your card collection from EtG.
I do agree here that this could be something nice to potentially add in the future. However, someone would have to take the time to implement this effectively and efficiently which is not really a trivial task without direct access to the actual EtG accounts, and I'm not sure thats necessarily a good idea

I was told that oEtG would be a great way to balance new card ideas...
how can you test new cards at such a rate of addition and with all the changes to current in game cards?

I already have a small snipet coded to allow enforcing deck restrictions quite easily using a list of card codes and minimum and maximum counts. It should be possible to use it to make some kind of testing tournament automator.
Want to see how a card would affect current meta on its own? Hold a tournament with cards restricted to current EtG cards plus the cards being tested (e.g. ban all non original EtG cards except a handful being tested).
A similar mechanism could be used with the random AI's. Once someone has time, it really wouldn't be that hard to add in this feature to the sandbox AI builders... or maybe even the ingame ones.
Lastly, if the changes in mechanics are really a big problem, it may also be possible to implement a "classic" checkbox which could allow players to play under current EtG mechanics. This is certainly pretty straightforward for actives, which all reside in their own self contained code file.
So, once everything gets settled in, it should be possible to set up testing environments which mimic original EtG exactly.

Obviously one/some of you have knowledge enough to create your own little forum and move this topic off of here...
Why? As mentioned above, Zanz has had the opportunity to see this thread and hasn't shown any indication of either like or dislike at all. OpenEtG isn't detracting from the original EtG in any way. If anything it is providing a wonderful testing ground for new ideas that could enhance EtG and gives the community a way to test them out for themselves and provide feedback. So what is the problem?
If you don't like the features here, let us know... More importantly, let us know why! And be more specific than just, 'because its different from current EtG'. Tell us what works, what doesn't work and explain why.

So long story short, yes openEtG is MUCH different from current EtG in a number of ways. But I think it does hold true to the overall spirit of the game and it allows us to test out lots of new ideas, cards, features, etc. so they can be evaluated without having to actually add them into the current game.
In the long run, I think this will be great for EtG. Those features and cards which people seem to truly love and enjoy here can become candidates for being merged into the current game.
The CI&A board can certainly benefit greatly.
We can have an avenue to work on developing features like quest lines, tournament automaters, the impact of a pack system. Etc.